"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The doctrine that future happiness depends upon belief is monstrous. It is the infamy of infamies. The notion that faith in Christ is to be rewarded by an eternity of bliss, while a dependence upon reason, observation and experience merits everlasting pain, is too absurd for refutation, and can be relieved only by that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance, called "faith." What man, who ever thinks, can believe that blood can appease God? And yet, our entire system of religion is based upon that belief. The Jews pacified Jehovah with the blood of animals, and according to the Christian system, the blood of Jesus softened the heart of God a little, and rendered possible the salvation of a fortunate few. It is hard to conceive how the human mind can give assent to such terrible ideas, or how any sane man can read the Bible and still believe in the doctrine of inspiration.

faith is the absence of reason!

inspiredbyGOD:
A splendid afternoon to everyone.
I want us to have a discussion based on the title of this thread.
Is faith a negation of reason? There has been a great many number of people who over the centuries have claimed that faith and reason are incompatible but is that true? Do religious beliefs fly in the face of all reason? Let's consider this: there have been many strongly held scientific beliefs that have been proved to be wrong but that doesn't necessarily mean that all scientific beliefs are wrong or are not based on reason. Why then do we have to view religious beliefs any differently?

To answer the question, one needs to define faith. What is faith as used in scripture as opposed to the dictionary definitions which exclude the scriptural application of the word?

Sunnycliff:
Am taking my stand on this issue from the Holy Bible, Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Please, understand that a man not born again, cannot exercise this Faith as written in the Scriptures. For it is a spiritual thing and the carnal man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

Faith and Reasoning are two parallel lines. Faith begins at the point where reasoning ends and ends at the point where human reasoning and logics begins. What human reasoning can justify the actions of Abraham when he was told by God to sacrifice his only son of his old age or the prophecy of his wife sarah putting to birth at 90 years of age?

I am afraid these are very wrong conclusions on your part.

First, contrary to what many may like to believe, Hebrews 11 vs 1 does not contain a definition of the word faith . Rather what the writer does in the context is attempts a figurative comparison of faith with the evidence/substance, the promises of God, that come as a result of ir. Faith itself is not defined in the context of that passage. For this reason, the word faith, in the context, is used in reference to efforts made by such a person as Abraham while pointing out the evidence/benefits that resulted from such effort.

God Himself explained what the word faith means in Genesis 26 vs 5 when He pointed out that the reason why He made a promise to Abraham had to do with the fact that Abraham lived his life in submission and obedience of His, God's, teachings and commandments - Faith. God gave that as the one and the only reason why He made Abraham His friend. This offer we observe Jesus Christ makes with all those of His followers who will do as He says - John 15 vs 9 -14 — those who will submit to and obey His teachings and commandments in the Kingdom of God. So, there you have it. Faith refers to living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to God's commandments and teachings, and in our case, in Jesus Christ. This definition is observed as being used in the Old Testament as well as in the New Covenant by Jesus Christ Himself.

outcst:
Hi inspired,

Nice topic you got there...

It is my opinion that faith and reason work hand in hand for the most part....I agree that there are times when they seem to be at odds with each other but really, when one takes a cursory look, what we might find out is a situation where we get so many things wrong.

Anyways, it still depends on your definition of reason and how you think reason should be applied...sometimes these can be very subjective depending on our 'brand' of 'looking glass'.

I concur boss. God said, .. let reason together.'
Meaning.
1. God is reasonable God.
2. God does things for reasons.
3. It is unreasonable to reason oneself out of a reasonable programme of God and claiming you are using irresponsible faith when God has given you the grey matter to reason.
4. Faith and reason are mutually beneficial not at variant to each other.

anonimi:
Not necessarily.
Life is about balance in ALL things. One must strike a balance between faith and reason for a productive life.
You may wish to ponder about what Jesus Christ said:

1. The moment you give up your ability to adequately reason the things of God, is the moment you abandon God and His Word entirely to cling instead to what are the delusions of men. The only way to have faith in God to use the understanding — reasoning abilities — that you have already been given by God. Jesus Christ told you this in Matthew 25 vs 29 & Matthew 13 vs 12 & Mark 4 vs 22 - 28 where He explained that it is only when you use/reason the understanding you have that more understanding will be given to you by God. And that is the understanding you require in order to know God and His Truth, to aid you in your submission and obedience to Him - Faith. There is no other way.

So, if you don't already critical reason or logically processing everything, including that which is of God, I suggest you pick up a book on the subject of logical reasoning this year to get yourself started in the right direction. I recommend the book Being Logical, but any other book can help you to learn how to critically reason all you read, even that which is written in the Gospel so you can begin to live a life of continuous submission and obedience of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, a life of faith, the soonest.

geekinthelead:
■Absolutely not! The one thing has nothing to do with the other...

1. I am afraid this is wrong! There is everything reasonable in obeying the Law of the land so certainly, faith when you apply its true meaning, is equally reasonable.