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What Is Faith? / Word Of Faith:what Is Faith? / What Is Wrong With Reason ? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by greatgenius: 3:44am On Jun 09, 2013 |
most people think taht they are are in conflict because they erroneously think that if you have reason then you don't need faith and if you go by faith , then you cannot go by reasoning ..this is a paradox that has caused the biggest problems in all spirituality and religion.. but the truth is faith and reason are actually one and the same thing.. in order to have faith about something you need to know it as true. you cannot know something as ture unless you have a reason for it to be so... faith is reason and reason is faith 1 Like |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 4:49am On Jun 09, 2013 |
greatgenius: most people think taht they are are in conflict because they erroneously think that if you have reason then you don't need faith and if you go by faith , then you cannot go by reasoning ..this is a paradox that has caused the biggest problems in all spirituality and religion.. Guy, you are not a genius with that foolish comment. Faith is very diffferent and sometimes opposite to reason. Faith flies you into buildings reason helps you make buildings |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by outcst: 5:58am On Jun 09, 2013 |
plaetton: What if, some time from now the 'talking donkey' ish becomes explanable via our frail human intelligence? |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 6:13am On Jun 09, 2013 |
outc@st: What if some time from now "God" becomes diagnosed as a mental delusion? Guy, let us focus on what we know. Donkeys can not talk. Faith is not reasonable |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by outcst: 6:40am On Jun 09, 2013 |
Logicboy03: At least with this I can't justify calling you Olodo...so I will shelve it for a more appropriate time . Seriously now, what really is 'reason'? If I can provide justification or explanations for the things I believe in then what I do is in line with reason. As I mentioned before a number of things that we believe as Christians are completely reasonable. To say that some other things Christians believe in are against reason would be very inappropriate. If we say something is against reason, we are really saying that what is believed cannot both now and in the future be explained or justified...this is not true and we need not go back too far in history to prove it. The best we can say is that there are some things believed by Christians (I can only speak for my faith) which are beyond the scope of reason...what is beyond the scope of reason need not be unreasonable for all time as you guys suggest. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by DMerciful(m): 7:07am On Jun 09, 2013 |
loswhite: ur foolishness knows no bound since u cannot read and understand a simple post. How many of those experiment have u carried out on your own? Imagine a drug 4 instance that was accepted because it was proven and accepted but after ten years a knew knowledge came out and dat drug was found to have serious negative impact on humans and as a result it was bound. The people that have been using the drug 4 d last 10 years put their faith in dat drug because the experiment was carried and vetted by due process by scientific community and they believe that community because they are good @ what they do. ppl always put their faith in sumtinNobody will tell you that a drug is absolute, scientists will only tell you the probability of success n also tell u d side effects if known. But scientists will tell u that friction opposes motion n its a fact. They' ll also tell u that action n reaction are equal n opposite n its a fact....how about d earth revolves round d sun, its a fact..... @Loswhite....use d right comparison n avoid baseless arguments |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by DMerciful(m): 7:07am On Jun 09, 2013 |
loswhite: ur foolishness knows no bound since u cannot read and understand a simple post. How many of those experiment have u carried out on your own? Imagine a drug 4 instance that was accepted because it was proven and accepted but after ten years a knew knowledge came out and dat drug was found to have serious negative impact on humans and as a result it was bound. The people that have been using the drug 4 d last 10 years put their faith in dat drug because the experiment was carried and vetted by due process by scientific community and they believe that community because they are good @ what they do. ppl always put their faith in sumtinNobody will tell you that a drug is absolute, scientists will only tell you the probability of success n also tell u d side effects if known. But scientists will tell u that friction opposes motion n its a fact. They' ll also tell u the action n reaction are equal n opposite n its a fact....how about d earth revolve round d sun, its a fact..... @Loswhite....use d right comparison n avoid baseless arguments |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 7:13am On Jun 09, 2013 |
outc@st: Beyond the scope of reasoning? Your christian beliefs are below the concept of reasoning. They are foolishness upon silliness. A donkey can not talk. It can not talk. Even if it could, why would it speak a Jewish language? A dead man who has been bled to death can not come back to life in 3 days. Your beliefs are insane. Faith is the only thing that can make a man carry a bomb to blow up people and than cries the next day that he didnt reach paradise because his bomb didnt detonate and he was caught. Reason can never justify such psychopatic terrorism |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by chukkynwob(m): 7:32am On Jun 09, 2013 |
Logicboy03: So as an atheist,you have absolutely no faith in anything or anyone? |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 7:38am On Jun 09, 2013 |
chukkynwob: We are talking about religous faith. And yes I have faith in the fact that my football team, Arsenal, will win the league at every season. And I agree that such faith is silly. I have faith in my close family members that they would be loyal to me- however, this is not faith in the religious sense because I reasoned with the current evidence that they have always been loyal beofre and they have two good reasons to be loyal; blood and my return of that loyalty back to then |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by inspiredbyGOD(m): 8:48am On Jun 09, 2013 |
Wow! I really wasn't expecting this thread to hit the frontpage. Too many comments to go through. Lemme take my time {might not be able to reply anyone though} |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 8:51am On Jun 09, 2013 |
Krucifax: Buddhism was founded in 520BC long before Christianity in Indiahmm i find this interesting, using CHRISTIANITY as benchmark to judge periods of other religion. 1 Like |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 8:53am On Jun 09, 2013 |
greatgenius: most people think taht they are are in conflict because they erroneously think that if you have reason then you don't need faith and if you go by faith , then you cannot go by reasoning ..this is a paradox that has caused the biggest problems in all spirituality and religion..U are confusing having reasons for your faith, and "Reason". Ofcourse all religions all over the world, even the oldest like hinduism have better reasons than christianity. The question is based on faith and reason, u lack the right understanding of the question, but I don't blame u. Another point of correction, you don't know your faith to be true, you can only believe it is! Reason seeks to know. Where faith arose was where knowledge ended, then it seemed reasonable to believe in "something" - something you can't prove. But in the end, if you had knowledge you would not need to have faith. If you really are dependent on reason which naturally seeks certainty, there will be no room for faith. The fear of the unknown brings about the necessity of faith. Fear! |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 8:56am On Jun 09, 2013 |
hisblud: hmm i find this interesting, using CHRISTIANITY as benchmark to judge periods of other religion. Guy, that was a silly retort |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 8:57am On Jun 09, 2013 |
i think we are missing a point here...Lets take a look on faith from the word of God which says that faith is the response of human spirit to the word of God...while reason is man's response to the way he has being doing things...Now how sure is man's way in doing things depends on how long by experience that method has worked for him or her.....so when dealing with God,reason flies to the the wind....so reason and faith doesnot apply |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 10:48am On Jun 09, 2013 |
traeces: reason deals with rational thinking, logical soundness, sensory perception and is altogether physical. Thank you! If we really decide to be rational in some things then we won't have faith. Faith to me is a belief in the supernatural. Something that ordinarily would not happen but we have faith that it would happen because there is an omnipotent God who has everything under control and we believe nothing is impossible for Him. For example, a woman without a womb cannot conceive. That is logical and rational. But a Christian woman decides to leave logic and reason but instead looks up to God with faith that irrespective of what the Doctor has said, she would still conceive. You cannot apply reason and faith or else you would start to have doubts. The Bible itself doesn't support doubts. If you have doubts then it means you don't have faith. Faith is incompatible with reason. A look at the book of Hebrews would convince us further If Noah had reasoned He won't have built that Ark. If Abraham had reasoned He won't have left his house to a land he had never seen. Sarah applied logic that is why when she was told she was going to conceive she did not believe. Why? Because she looked at the fact that she was past child bearing age. Faith requires that you look away from all logic and reason and to just believe that with God all things are possible. To be candid. If I decided to apply reason when reading the Bible, I won't be a Christian today. Atheist have applied reason that is why they don't believe in God. Science also applies reason. The word miracle itself would tell use that faith and reason are incompatible. It is a miracle because It defies all logic and reason. 1 Like |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by shamson: 11:00am On Jun 09, 2013 |
Reading the scripture widens one intelligent and gives internal peace.So, being able to reason start from understanding the verbal structure of the Author/creator who create senses.Believing in God is the beginning of wisdom.Even in science world, those who care to put the scripture to test, found out amazing things and were convince enough that there must be a supernatural being somewhere who had the knowledge of everything on earth before the bath of science ideology.A researcher, call keith moore said and I quote "As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Qur'an. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described... I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individ Muh ammad had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write... I believe and I found joy in it |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by outcst: 12:00pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
Logicboy03: It's either you do not know what reason is or you are mistaking it for something else. Or better still maybe you choose a definition that suits your purpose. Anyways, like I mentioned in my OP, reason is largely a subjective term and what might be reasonable for one might be very unreasonable for another. The bottom line however is that my faith as a Christian in a lot of instances can be defended using reason and I maintain that faith and reason work together instead of against each other. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by novicali: 1:50pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
Krucifax: The problem with Faith is that it's very foundation are a paradox! And every faith by that notion is actually unreasonable!I like your comment on this issue, however, one thing should be made clear here, and that is there are two main kinds of faith, one id physical and the other is abstract, the faith that is physical is the one kind that attached to things that you know about already, for instance, you know that there is a chair in a particular place, you need not to verify if the chair is there or not, because you aware of it already, that is different from the faith that you know there is no chair and yet by a convincing force within you, you decided to go ahead to sit down.This kind of faith has nothing to do with reason, in fact reasoning here will nullify the effect of the faith in ones life.So reasoning and the physical faith works hand in hand but the abstract faith is a paradox to reasoning. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Damon03(m): 2:01pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
Krucifax: The problem with Faith is that it's very foundation are a paradox! And every faith by that notion is actually unreasonable!Nailed it!!! |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 2:36pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
Logicboy03: For 4 good pages, this was a serious discussion devoid of insults until you came in. Shame. And hypocrites like you would be whining about intolerance next. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by PAGAN9JA(m): 2:40pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
davidylan: you have no sense! he was 1 of the first posters to come in on this thread. so if this thread has been mislead, its because of the likes of you. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 2:49pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: It appears you are still smarting from the total beat down you got on the animal rights thread. Quite petty of you... grow up, this is a separate discussion. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 4:18pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
davidylan: Chai....Davidylan is an artful dodger -When caught in a lie, shift to an irrelevant attack |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Nobody: 4:19pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
davidylan: Ignorant liar, I was the one of the first posters on this thread(with the most likes, i might add) |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by davidylan2: 4:48pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
davidylan:slowpoke |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:22pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
davidylan: what animal rights thread? wtf are you talking about |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Mudley313: 5:49pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
outc@st: yea right, same way al qaeda can defend crashing planes into a building to go meet up with allah's 71 virgins in paradise using reason... From the 2 contradictory creation account timelines of genesis in which yahweh makes a sky-dome, fixes all the lights like the sun, moon and stars into it, and then creates a magic garden with a talking snake... ...to the ridiculous little tower of babel story about some ancient people who try to build a tower to reach the sky so they can be with yahweh who gets scared and curses them with many languages (and this, not the evolution of human speech in different cultures isolated from each other, is why we have many languages)... ...to the sheer absurdity of the story of noah's ark and the global flood of how the human race as well as the animals survived on a large wooden boat that included an insufficient genetic diversity and a perfect god who twice repents... ...to the story of exodus in which the great egyptian empire gets zapped by yahweh with 10 curses yet strangely there's not a shred of evidence in actual historical accounts; and moses then leads his people through the desert for 40 years, sustained by magic food from heaven and water from a stone... ...to the passion and resurrection of jesus in which yahweh expresses his unconditional love for you by sending himself down to earth to sacrifice himself to himself because bleeding on a cross was the only way he could convince himself to forgive you for the fact that one of your ancestors made from a rib ate a magic fruit after speaking with a talking snake. the holy zombie then flew up into the sky after being dead for 3 days. abi na the fact that john was exiled in an island known for its mushrooms when he wrote his awesome stories of 10 headed dragons and giant locust with human faces spewing fire... or is it the book of job were your god decides to screw around with a mortal on a bet with satan what about when king david organised a census that enraged your god so much that he wipes out some 70,000 israelites with a plague but spares the main culprit - David himself.... you know, maintaining that "(religious)faith and reason work together instead of against each other" is actually a mental condition; it's called "Delusion" 2 Likes |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by Elxandre(m): 6:59pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
Faith is stepping out into the SUPPOSED UNKNOWN knowing God will somehow come to your aid. So faith is not compatible with reason, Because with man there are impossibilities but with God nothing is impossible. Faith is not just sitting at a spot believing. Its acting upon your faith |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by UyiIredia(m): 7:17pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
I see someone hasn't lost his old touch. Make we cross path first. |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by bunmit(m): 7:55pm On Jun 09, 2013 |
God thought and way is far higher than ours, dats why 90% or more of the time, faith will always negate reason |
Re: Is Faith Incompatible With Reason? by paulabdeel(m): 8:21am On Jun 10, 2013 |
A man bound to drown, will drown in his sweat. You cannot understand because you are reasoning. Wait till you have a life threatening situation, your grammar and logic will disappear. |
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