Kay 17: @strik

Awareness of identity

Consciousness/discretion

Has an anticipated future

Capable of obliging to legal responsibilities

Capable of exercising legal rights and powers.

Great post Kay but this would mean cutting off every newborn child for starters since:

1) They are not aware of their identity

2) Even though some level of consciousness can be attributed to them, we definitely can't say they are capable of discretion....still this would rule out every man, woman and child who loses consciousness due to, say, accident.

3) A newborn's anticipated future is no better than that of a child in the womb.

4) Newborns know nothing about legal responsibilities.

5) Rights and powers are strange terms to newborns.


This can be extended to other humans too but I will stick to the above for now.

OLAADEGBU:

"Abraham and Jephthah" didn't sacrifice their children to Molek or any other god. Sorry to burst your bubble.

If Abraham had disobeyed God's command to sacrifice his son, it would have beeen a sin! And Abraham would have been sent punished and sent to hell!

Kay 17:

If Abraham had disobeyed God's command to sacrifice his son, it would have beeen a sin! And Abraham would have been sent punished and sent to hell!

The point here is: did he 'sacrifice' his son?

^^
No, what matters is God's commands. Failure to obey is a sin.

Kay 17: ^^
No, what matters is God's commands. Failure to obey is a sin.

No need to derail the thread...

davidylan:
The problem with Mike Huckabee and other "conservative" republicans is the disgusting hypocrisy.

Its funny that they are so quick to defend life yet unborn yet care nothing for that life once it is born. Yep Mike Huckabee claims to believe that "all people are created equal" but ONLY when they are still in the womb. The same Huckabee supports a party platform that:

1. Is presently debating cutting food assistance to the poor while gifting farmers and big companies tax subsidies.
2. Has recently cut funds to the head start program that is meant to assist children from low income families
3. Has voted 37 times to defund, repeal and kill a healthcare program geared towards providing affordable healthcare to the poor.
4. Voted to cut government funds to planned parenthood - the only place poor or minority women get affordable access to reproductive healthcare.
5. Opposed allowing health insurance pay for birth control pills so women dont end up pregnant when they can least afford it.

Sorry if i do not for one second believe anything Mike Huckabee says. True christians are not just those who whine about abortion...

Logicboy03: I was about to watch the video and comment but then,

You seriously quoted Mike Huckabee on a religious matter?

These comments are a classic example of what the ad hominem fallacy is.

You have both ignored the point of the argument which is that; Abortion is morally wrong. Instead you have proceeded to attack the person of Huckabee and other members of the Republican party. I'm afraid both of you have really made no point as regards the issue itself.

Kay 17:

If Abraham had disobeyed God's command to sacrifice his son, it would have beeen a sin! And Abraham would have been sent punished and sent to hell!

You don't know what you are talking about: Go read Hebrews 11:17-19

Mr anony:

These comments are a classic example of what the ad hominem fallacy is.

You have both ignored the point of the argument which is that; Abortion is morally wrong. Instead you have proceeded to attack the person of Huckabee and other members of the Republican party. I'm afraid both of you have really made no point as regards the issue itself.

lol......your argument in bold has been debunked and Davidylan made two points

-Why prevent abortion only for you to leave the child to die when it is born from hunger/parental abuse. Republicans ban abortion but refuse welfare assistance to poorer parents. That is the point about Huckabee
-If a parent can not love a child that is seen, how much worse will it be for that is which is unseen?



Your argument has been debunked so many times. Even liberal christians agree for abortion.

So you are free to associate with the conservative christians who are known for racism, sexism and creationist nonsense.


You were dumb enough to quote3 Mike Huckabee

Mr anony:
You don't know what you are talking about: Go read Hebrews 11:17-19

The verse further proves Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son without any objection to human sacrifice! Though he believed God can resurrect Isaac, same goes to the Aztecs who believed human sacrifice was necessary and beneficial to all.

Kay 17: The verse further proves Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son without any objection to human sacrifice! Though he believed God can resurrect Isaac, same goes to the Aztecs who believed human sacrifice was necessary and beneficial to all.

Erhm...the Aztecs were not killing their victims in the hope that they won't actually die. The intent of the Aztecs was really to end their lives.
If I know full well that if I shoot you in the head, you will rise up after 5 minutes, then the act of shooting you in the head is no longer murder on my part. Surely you know this.

Am good, you?

Logicboy03:


Wassap, catholic brother?

italo: Am good, you?

Am cool.....peace be with you!

Mr anony:
Erhm...the Aztecs were not killing their victims in the hope that they won't actually die. The intent of the Aztecs was really to end their lives.
If I know full well that if I shoot you in the head, you will rise up after 5 minutes, then the act of shooting you in the head is no longer murder on my part. Surely you know this.

It still remains murder and a despicable act. Your victim still lost a life and still suffered grievous bodily harm.

But no, a typical old testament psychopath like you would not see anything wrong in that

Logicboy03: It still remains murder and a despicable act. Your victim still lost a life and still suffered grievous bodily harm.

But no, a typical old testament psychopath like you would not see anything wrong in that

Facepalm!

Mr anony:
Facepalm!

A gif or pic would have expressed your smh more clearly

@Kay17,

You are saying a new-born, like the unborn arent persons. Yes or no?

Kay 17: @strik

Awareness of identity

Consciousness/discretion

Has an anticipated future

Capable of obliging to legal responsibilities

Capable of exercising legal rights and powers.

...and also with you. How do you support the killing of a human being a minute before birth but oppose it a minute after birth?

Logicboy03:

Am cool.....peace be with you!

Mr anony:
Erhm...the Aztecs were not killing their victims in the hope that they won't actually die. The intent of the Aztecs was really to end their lives.
If I know full well that if I shoot you in the head, you will rise up after 5 minutes, then the act of shooting you in the head is no longer murder on my part. Surely you know this.

I dont agree.
It should be noted that Abraham himself never claimed he believed his son would resurrect. All he was just trying to do is obey God. The Hebrews (a book written in an era where everyone believed in resurrection) u quoted earlier is only claiming that Abraham believed so. We dont know for sure. It was not recorded what Abraham himself thought about the whole saga.
Maybe he just believed God wont allow him to kill Isaac and that is why he kept saying "God will provide" when Isaac asked him about the ram for sacrifce. Or he just believed God would make Sarah conceive another child, an Isaac clone . Or one of his concubines would produce another.
Anyway I dont know why I am arguing about a fairytale.

I guess I can understand David's upset. Mike might be a huge hypocrite and that is so distasteful as to cast a pall on an opinion he holds regardless whether it's right or wrong. However, a gold ring in a pig's snout is no less gold even if it has been misused and insulted thus. Mike was right about this matter just as we sinners tend to be about holy things quite often.

Thank God that the good doctor saw the light. Great is the mercy of the Lord.

italo: ...and also with you. How do you support the killing of a human being a minute before birth but oppose it a minute after birth?

90% of abortions are done before the 4th month

Mr anony:
Erhm...the Aztecs were not killing their victims in the hope that they won't actually die. The intent of the Aztecs was really to end their lives.
If I know full well that if I shoot you in the head, you will rise up after 5 minutes, then the act of shooting you in the head is no longer murder on my part. Surely you know this.

And Jesus made no sacrifice.

PhenomenonVFX:

I dont agree.
It should be noted that Abraham himself never claimed he believed his son would resurrect. All he was just trying to do is obey God. The Hebrews (a book written in an era where everyone believed in resurrection) u quoted earlier is only claiming that Abraham believed so. We dont know for sure. It was not recorded what Abraham himself thought about the whole saga.
Maybe he just believed God wont allow him to kill Isaac and that is why he kept saying "God will provide" when Isaac asked him about the ram for sacrifce. Or he just believed God would make Sarah conceive another child, an Isaac clone . Or one of his concubines would produce another.
Anyway I dont know why I am arguing about a fairytale.

Lol. Please refrain from arguing about this particular fairytale: it's embarrassing to read such obviously faulty arguments so frequently.

musKeeto:
And Jesus made no sacrifice.

Because He knew He'd rise from the dead and that He would regain His eternal glory? Have you ever had to give up something ever so briefly knowing that you'd get it back? Did it count as a sacrifice? Why or why not?

PhenomenonVFX:

I dont agree.
It should be noted that Abraham himself never claimed he believed his son would resurrect. All he was just trying to do is obey God. The Hebrews (a book written in an era where everyone believed in resurrection) u quoted earlier is only claiming that Abraham believed so. We dont know for sure. It was not recorded what Abraham himself thought about the whole saga.
Maybe he just believed God wont allow him to kill Isaac and that is why he kept saying "God will provide" when Isaac asked him about the ram for sacrifce. Or he just believed God would make Sarah conceive another child, an Isaac clone . Or one of his concubines would produce another.
Anyway I dont know why I am arguing about a fairytale.

another one bites the dust

Ihedinobi:

Because He knew He'd rise from the dead and that He would regain His eternal glory? Have you ever had to give up something ever so briefly knowing that you'd get it back? Did it count as a sacrifice? Why or why not?

Yawn.

musKeeto: And Jesus made no sacrifice.

Of course he didn't. He only gave up His God privileges and allowed himself to be humiliated into the form of a man and bore your dirty disgusting sin that He was too holy to behold, then allowed puny little men to brutally torture and crucify Him. And after He had provided the cleansing required for your sin and given it freely to you (a favour you don't deserve) He rose back into Heaven. But of course there was no sacrifice as far as Muskeeto is concerned. smh

Ihedinobi:

Lol. Please refrain from arguing about this particular fairytale: it's embarrassing to read such obviously faulty arguments so frequently.

Yeah I agree. Every argument against ur beliefs is always faulty. Thanks for playing.

musKeeto:


Yawn.

Uh huh

PhenomenonVFX:
Yeah I agree. Every argument against ur believes is always faulty. Thanks for playing.

Well, I never justsay the words, I prove them too, don't I?

OLAADEGBU:

"Abraham and Jephthah" didn't sacrifice their children to Molek or any other god. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Sorry to burst yours, but Jephthah most definitely did sacrifice his daughter to the God of Israel. He burnt the poor young girl to death on an altar, and the book of judges doesn't say a word against it. Read your bible.

And Abraham dragged his son Isaac up a mountain,made him help build the pile or rocks he was to be killed on, tied the poor boy up, pulled out a knife and was already swinging it when the voices in his head told him to stop. If the bible is to be believed, the it was God himself that told him to murder his son. The whole point of the Abraham and Isaac story is to celebrate Abraham's willingness to perform a human sacrifice.

You can claim that God was only trolling, but that doesn't excuse Abraham, or the millions of Jews, Muslims and Christians who've been promoting this horrible story as an example for small children to follow.

How do you support the killing of the 10% but oppose it 1 minute after birth?

Logicboy03:


90% of abortions are done before the 4th month

italo: How do you support the killing of the 10% but oppose it 1 minute after birth?

there is no 10% abortion of babies 1 minute before birth. Just because one thing is 90%, it doesnt mean that its opposite will be 10%.


People consider abortion long before the second week. It is quite rare for an abortion in the 8/9th month and it is even more rare if it is outside extreme (health or some 8 month abduction stuff) cases

How do you support the killing of a human being 8 or 9

Logicboy03:


there is no 10% abortion of babies 1 minute before birth. Just because one thing is 90%, it doesnt mean that its opposite will be 10%.


People consider abortion long before the second week. It is quite rare for an abortion in the 8/9th month and it is even more rare if it is outside extreme (health or some 8 month abduction stuff) cases

months before birth but oppose it one minute after birth?