Why are people focusing on Nigerian criminals ? What about the good Nigerians. I am seek and tired of hearing about Nigerians internet scam and credit card fraud. those this means no one in Nigeria is credit worthy

WASHINGTON - More than 2.8 million people in the U.S. paid to obtain credit cards, claim sweepstakes winnings and get in on lucrative investments that turned out to be too good to be true, officials said Tuesday as they announced hundreds of arrests in an international investigation.

Authorities in five countries have arrested 565 people in fraud schemes that netted more than $1 billion. Many of those arrested are west Africans who were attempting variations of the notorious Nigerian Internet scam, the Justice Department said.

Many of the victims were elderly or immigrants. One scam consisted of telephone calls to Spanish-speaking U.S. residents who were seeking to establish credit and were promised credit cards in return for a couple of hundred dollars. The cards didn't exist, said Federal Trade Commission Chairwoman Deborah Platt Majoras.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12934586/

You are right Oga Odeku, that quite a few Nigerians in the diaspora are quietly making breakthroughs in computer science, mathematics, legitimate commerce and the arts. These over-achievers are the cream of Nigeria's intelligentsia, and yet they receive comparatively sparse publicity despite the enormous contributions they continue to make in their adopted homelands.     

The reason the good and legitimately successful Nigerians do not get much press attention is that their numbers are so small as to be practically insignificant in comparison to the vast hordes of Nigerians that fan out across the globe with no intention of working for an honest living, and every intention of making a dishonest buck by breaking the law at every turn.  On my rare visits to friends in the Windy City where you live, for example,  I am always saddened to hear of the large number of those in the Nigerian community who are known to be either coke and crack dealers or internet scam artists who cycle in and out of jail like it was Summer camp.

Those honest, law-abiding and productive Nigerians living ordinary lives in the West will rarely make headlines since they commit no sensational crimes, and are, statistically speaking, a distinct minority in comparison to those other outlaw Nigerians known to be engaged in the sort of crime wave that sells newspapers.  Good news travels slow, while bad news spreads like wildfire.

On sunday CNN had a documentary on Nigerians living in Houston, couple people were arrested for a ring gang credit card fraud. I was amazed to see a fellow ignorant Nigerian arrested in handcuff and this fool had $500.000 cash stacked in one of his vault. The story never said any thing about the Nigerians doctors, lawyers and nurses in the state, they publicize us Nigerians as criminal coming to the state to continue frivolous activities. its sad to hear.

The sad fact is that Nigeria has bred a whole generation of lazy young males who do not want to work for a living. They would rather sit all day in internet cafes sending their stupid 419 letters and trying to steal from hard working honest citizens.

Nigeria is the Worlds most criminally minded and active Country. There are very few businesses or people that will risk investing or making any kind of financial transaction with Nigerians. It is seen as the leper of Africa!

@Reverend
I could have said you had some info for us if the topic was on naked humanity and advanced immorality promotion, but when you start talking about Nigeria, i begin to get suspicious.

The sad fact is that Nigeria has bred a whole generation of lazy young males who do not want to work for a living. They would rather sit all day in internet cafes sending their stupid 419 letters and trying to steal from hard working honest citizens.

Nigeria is the Worlds most criminally minded and active Country. There are very few businesses or people that will risk investing or making any kind of financial transaction with Nigerians. It is seen as the leper of Africa!

Fine, Nigeria started the 419 stuff, and we have our diploma on that. But nowadays, though a lot of Nigerians are still into it, let me tell you that the greater part on a percentage scale of those writing 419 letters are foreigners. The last person arrested in the UK was a white Briton. Asked how he knew all about Nigeria, with locations, exact addresses, and writing as if he was actually in Nigeria, he says he chats a lot online, has come to Nigeria before, does georgraphy etc,

Sorry, Nigerian males are not lazy. If they were lazy they wont even be in the cybercafe in the first place. Let me put it like this: Nigerian males/even African males on the general have a lot of potential, zest and knowledge. These are largely unused, and unfortunately are not given adequate opportunity to channel such talents positively, thats why some just have to go the other way.

Thirdly, ok, a Nigerian sits in a cafe and tries to defraud someone else. Me-thinks, me-says, and me-concludes that Birds of the same feather flock together. A thief best knows a thief and best catches him. If those well-educated, well-placed and financially comfortable individuals could be so gullible to fall-prey to "stupid letter/s" from some youths trying to survive at the other end of the world, then i think you can judge who the real stupid person is.

Note: Im not encouraging the ideals of the 419ners, but here, if you(for example) could be so gullible to believe in a letter that someone wants to transfer some millions of pound sterlings into your bank account for "safe keeping", and for that you get all excited and worked up, as so much as giving money to someone you have never seen just to "process the transfer into your account", then I think you should have yourself. What were you thinking about in the first place, "ok if the money is transfered into my account, i can make a get away with it?" or did you want to really keep it for "safe keeping?" Safe keeping for what? is that how much you could be a good samaritan? see we are human, so even those who ended up getting duped in the first place have ill motives.

If i have my way, both the victim and the victors in 419 fraud cases should be dealt with by the law.

example: Gossip can only be eradicated when there are no ears ready to hear gossips. As long as there are listening ears, there'll be gossipers. So the gossip nuisance is both the problem of the speakers and the hearers.

Lastly, do you have any idea of the billions of investments pouring into Nigeria? You better sit where you are, when the investments are up to our neck, ill adivse one of my guys to redesign your kinky website free of charge.

Kimba, your assertion that the "majority" of those engaged in internet advanced fees fraud are NOT Nigerian is BLATANTLY FALSE.   Having personally responded to hunderds of those letters by tricking the writers to leave voice-mail messages at dedicated phone numbers, I discovered to my profound sadness that VIRTUALLY ALL of the recorded voice-mail messages were in fact those of men with clearly identifyable NIGERIAN IGBO accents despite the fact that those phone calls were placed from all over the globe.   

While there may be a miniscule precentage of 419 scam artists who are neither IGBO nor Nigerian, your pronouncement that those non-Nigerian copy-cat criminals constitute a numerical majority in the 419 world is quite simply wishful thinking, much like the ever-changing and highly amusing fairy-tales you have posted in this forum regarding your own racial lineage.  There now exist numerous websites DEDICATED to frustrating the efforts of Nigerian internet scam artists, and those websites also feature vast AUDIO ARCHIVES containing literally thousands of recorded voice-mail messages, VIRTUALLY ALL of which were left by IGBO men with strong accents to boot,  so take my word for it that this 419 cancer continues to spread due to the efforts of NIGERIANS ALONE, and to the exclusion of all other nationals.   

Reading yet more of your tiresome drivel, it becomes evident that you clearly have a soft spot for practitioners of internet 419 scams when you claim that the con-men cannot be described as lazy predators simply because they have to sit at computer terminals for hours plying their criminal trade and plotting to deprive investment-seeking retirees of their life-savings.  I suppose next you will submit a dissertation calling for understanding and appreciation of armed bank robbers because their operations are preceded by such painstaking and meticulous preparation, all of which would be classified as "gainful employment" in the world according to Kimba.  I'm not even going to ask what you do for a living, Mr. Kimba, but I have a pretty good hunch, given your wild imagination and the parallel universe of alternate realities in which your mind resides.

(FORTUNE Magazine) - Akin is, like many things in cyberspace, an alias. In real life he's 14. He wears Adidas sneakers, a Rolex Submariner watch, and a kilo of gold around his neck.

Akin, who lives in Lagos, is one of a new generation of entrepreneurs that has emerged in this city of 15 million, Nigeria's largest. His mother makes $30 a month as a cleaner, his father about the same hustling at bus stations. But Akin has made it big working long days at Internet cafes and is now the main provider for his family and legions of relatives.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/29/8378124/

When a small child like this is caught and thrown into jail, it will be a tragedy for the family as well as a tragedy for the country. Obviously, such a child has enormous potential that ought to have been harnessed legitimately.

@ Kimba

Fine, Nigeria started the 419 stuff, and we have our diploma on that. But nowadays, though a lot of Nigerians are still into it, let me tell you that the greater part on a percentage scale of those writing 419 letters are foreigners.

The sad fact is that you are mistaken. The first and most important step in addressing this problem is admitting that you have the problem in the first place.

Nigerians are responsible for 90% of 419. When you say foreigners then I could take it to mean the Nigerians operating out of Benin, Ghana, Cote I'voire, Amsterdam, London, Madrid and the US.

When the Nigerian government tried to crack down on 419, many Nigerians moved to carry on their criminal ways in bordering countries.

The Nigerian Scam is, according to published reports, the Third to Fifth largest industry in Nigeria. It is the 419 Coalition view that, in effect, the elites from which successive Governments of Nigeria have been drawn ARE the Scammers - therefore, victims have little recourse in this matter. Monies stolen by 419 operations are almost Never Recovered from Nigeria.

Most 419 letters and emails originate from or are traceable back to Nigeria. However, some originate from other nations, mostly also West African nations such as Ghana, Togo, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast ( Cote D'Ivoire ) etc. In most cases 419 emails from other nations are also Nigerian in that the "Home Office" of the 419ers involved is Nigerian regardless of the source of the contact materials.

Sorry, Nigerian males are not lazy. If they were lazy they wont even be in the cybercafe in the first place. Let me put it like this: Nigerian males/even African males on the general have a lot of potential, zest and knowledge. These are largely unused, and unfortunately are not given adequate opportunity to channel such talents positively, thats why some just have to go the other way.

Bishop Challenges Nigerians On Work Ethics
Stories By Peter Onwubuariri, Abuja

The Rt. Rev Duke Akamisoko, Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Zonkwa is concerned over the nation's attitude to work and wants a reduction in the number of public holidays observed in the country.

Addressing the second session of the sixth session of the diocese of Abuja, held May 11-14, Bishop Akamisoko said the nation's level of productivity is suffering because a lot of Nigerians are lazy and idle at the expense of genuine hard work.

There is a culture in Nigeria that esteems those who can make money without working.

The culture of Southern Nigeria has always admired those who can make money without working.

The somewhat "jack the lad" culture of southern Nigeria combined with the stupidity of foreigners showed how easy it was to make money from the white mugus and intelligent scammers soon developed the 419 scams, initially via fax and then via the internet.

Children raised in this culture soon learn that scamming is acceptable – especially if you are successful.

I'm not encouraging the ideals of the 419ners, but here, if you(for example) could be so gullible to believe in a letter that someone wants to transfer some millions of pound sterlings into your bank account for "safe keeping", and for that you get all excited and worked up, as so much as giving money to someone you have never seen just to "process the transfer into your account", then I think you should have yourself. What were you thinking about in the first place, "ok if the money is transfered into my account, i can make a get away with it?" or did you want to really keep it for "safe keeping?" Safe keeping for what? is that how much you could be a good saSamaritansee we are human, so even those who ended up getting duped in the first place have ill motives.

This is the typical rhetoric that the scammers use to defend their actions and I find it amamusing that you Kimba also have the same attitude. Maybe even you are into 419?

Take the following scammers letter:-

From: Bleep Bleep Jennings <Bleep@bellsouth.net>
To: Amanda Fairheart-Smythe
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:09:16 -0600 (Central Standard Time)

Dear Amanda Fairheart-Smythe,

I wish I had received this email over 3 years ago. This man has stolen all that I had saved and money that I borrowed. I heard from his Mother (?) telling me a sad story that she was dying from Aids and wanted me to take her children as my own when she died. She had set up an Inheritance account and put it in my name. How stupid could I have been? What I sent was to cover legal fees, legal documents, etc, The money was never sent here. I have heard in the last couple of days from the bank and have found out that Kwesi Bandermann and others are thieves. Why did it take over 3 years to find this out? I would never put your informants life in danger. My life is in danger now as well as my family. I have received threats this week. I am so afraid now and don't know what to do. How did you know that Kwesi Bandermann was expected to arrive here by plane? He did not arrive and I pray to God he doesn't. How did you get this email address? Only 2 people had it. It was Mr. Richard Meddings and Kwesi Bandermann. I can tell you the whole story if you need it.

Sincerely,
Bleep Bleep Jennings

All the victim wanted to do was adopt some children whose mother had died of AIDS. She was scammed over 3 years and lost vast amounts of money. Greedy? I don’t think so.

Also consider the vast number charity scams. Less than 2 days after the tsunami killed over 200,000 people in Asia on Boxing Day 2004, Nigerian scam letters were being circulated. People responded to these not because they were greedy but because they were generous and wanted to help those in trouble.

@ Kimba

I find your attitude to be typical and one of the main reasons that Nigeria is seen as the criminal capital of the World and can not shake off this cancer.

For the honest, hard working Nigerians I hope that one day soon Nigeria will find it's rightful place in the International community and that these criminals will be eradicated from the face of the planet.

Lastly, do you have any idea of the billions of investments pouring into Nigeria? You better sit where you are, when the investments are up to our neck, ill adivse one of my guys to redesign your kinky website free of charge.

That is of course if he is not busy sending 419 letters!

If you would like a good laugh at the scammers expense then visit the following link:-

http://www.419eater.com/html/trophy_room.htm

This is how some of these criminals have been caught at their own game and have been scammed back!

Maybe you will even recognize somebody from the photographs

@jakumo
@Filcher

Ok, now, so you guys have decided to tear me apart coz I defended my fathers land, by saying that as far as 419 is concerned, both the perpetrators and those who become victims should be given a whip? you even have the audacity to suggest that i might be one of those kinda guys. wow!, its not easy. Mr. Filcher, i guess this is your prime-time high opportunity to get back at my ass for putting you on check about your kinky issues? oga fine.  

Sorry sirs, im not, you're wrong. Im one of the few good guys this world has left, and if theres one thing I want to do, its to make Nigeria a better place. aiight.

As i said earlier on, lemme repeat, i do not condone the 419 peeps and their acts. Their acts are wrong, and they should be held responsible for it, but here:

If I were to give my daddy a call and tell him, "hey dad, can you assist me with your contacts at Nigerian Police HQs, coz some people I met online, blah-blah-blah, just duped me of 1-million naira. They said I should transfer so and so, so and so so and so so and so v so and so etc. Then i transfered".

Let me tell you what my dad would say:
"so you mean with all the money I paid for you to study in one of the best schools in the world, you'll still be that much stupid?" I guess he'll proceed to ask me what kind of money I was looking for, he'll ask me for details of supposed-to-be-deal, and if I were to present some grammatically incorrect letter/s, and email printouts to him, as my basis for getting fooled, I might just have to do a jackie-chan dodge so that a slap doesnt land on my face.

What am i getting at: those rich men who get duped earned their money in a hard way. Accepted. If they had to use their their common sense and legal business tactics to earn such millions and billions, and yet they would fall prey to "some guy" who theyve never met before, just for the purpose of increasing their wealth, fine, for me, i think they are stupid. See, if I was maybe the policeman in charge(God forbid, i will never be a policeman in Nigeria), but if I was in a position of authority and I had both the victim and the 419-genius in hand, i would give both of them some punishment.

@Jakumo, if someone sends yo a letter that he/she was going to transfer some $100mil into your account, and that the money belonged to a company whose owner died, blah blah, blah, and that you would get like 20% of the money after the deal is over, and for which you were asked to first send down an amount of money so that something could be processed, etc

Regardless of the hard documents you might have been sent to prove your communication with whoever the guy is, are legal documents, let me ask you, your accepting to use your account as an in-between, is that your definition of legal business? You should have had something up your sleeves for you to accept a shady deal, isnt it.

See, theres a small and very thin line between satisfaction and covetousness.

Now, those 419ners are covetous, greedy and thieves. Those other business men/women who get duped, who do not verify their business partners(even at least for the first time), are maybe satisfied, and the excitement maybe to double their wealth in no-time quickly pushes them over into covetousness.

@Mr Filcher,
theres another guy doing something like 419eater is doing. I posted his link somewhere on NL,

On the other hand, the pictures on your kinkychurch sites, are those pictures of your most devoted scammed into the kinky-state-of-mind members?

@ Kimba

Ok, now, so you guys have decided to tear me apart because I defended my fathers land, by saying that as far as 419 is concerned, both the perpetrators and those who become victims should be given a whip?

We are not tearing you apart. You are tearing yourself and Nigeria apart by supporting the actions of these criminals!

Mr. Filcher, i guess this is your prime-time high opportunity to get back at my ass for putting you on check about your kinky issues?

I do not feel that you have put me on check about 'my Kinky issues'. I have no problem as this is a forum and everybody has a right to free speech and to put their thoughts and feelings across in a sensible manner.

Forum


n. pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (f�r, fr)

1. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.

2. A public meeting place for open discussion.
3. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
4. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
5. A court of law; a tribunal.


Peace

@Mr. Filch

how can I be supporting the action of these criminals? Im saying we should look at the situation from a balanced perspective.

If you are always finding ants in your shoes, then maybe go check if you've got some sugar grains in there. There is no curse without a cause. Get the "cause" sorted out and all the "curse" is gone,

get it?

Odeku:

On sunday CNN had a documentary on Nigerians living in Houston, couple people were arrested for a ring gang credit card fraud. I was amazed to see a fellow ignorant Nigerian arrested in handcuff and this fool had $500.000 cash stacked in one of his vault. The story never said any thing about the Nigerians doctors, lawyers and nurses in the state, they publicize us Nigerians as criminal coming to the state to continue frivolous activities. its sad to hear.

My brother, an oil stain on a sparkling white gown spoils the beauty of the gown. Despite the fact the stain may occupy less than 2% of the total length/width of the gown people will talk more about the stain than the other qualities of the gown. That is life.

@ Kimba

You are trying to justify the criminal actions of the Nigerian scammers by saying that the victims deserve it and should be also treated as criminals. That is just crazy and unfortunately typical view of an uneducated person.

I suppose that you will be telling us next that if an armed robber raids a bank the customers of the bank are also to blame because they keep their money there.


You are an ideal example of the cause of this problem and why at present there seems to be no solution.

You are quite happy to explore every reason for their actions and blame everybody else except the criminals themselves.

These people are dirty filthy animals. Don't look for any other explanation then they are disgusting criminal scum that that should be exterminated.

They have brought shame on their homeland and continue to do so. They have helped Nigeria achieve the status of fraud capital of the World. They prevent honest Nigerians, businesses and businessmen from being able to trade with other nations. Everybody is painted with the same brush because of their activities.

Only a person with a pea sized brain and lack of moral fiber would try to defend them in any way!

Sentiments apart, there are lots of Nigerians out there that are very dubious! They come to you in sheeps clothing and strike when you least expect it. Agreed, some other nationalities have moved into the 419 business but Nigerians are still into big time. When I was in the UK a few months back I witness a situation where my brother-in-law caught a guy fiddling  with his mail box. He had to beat the hell out of the guy before the neighbours called the police. Right there in the presence of everybody, he was searched and mails belonging to my brother-in-law were found in his pockets. We seem to be into all sorts of shits. In south africa of today the mere mention of Nigeria makes an average south african alert. The first time i visited SA I felt like crying because the negative impression they have about nigerians robbed off on me at different places. We control the drug market there and the 419 business. Go to a place like HILBROW, just down town Jo'burg you would be amazed. Drugs are sold everywhere by nigerians. An average south african is scared of going to Hilbrow.  One nigerian even had the effontery to ask me to help him get a printout of international calls transaction from NITEL office for him.

The really sad part of it is, these guys think they are displaying intelligence and innovation by finding ways to make money illegally.

Good some times i get some funny letters .
The whole world will write help me am a poor student , my mother is sick my dog is dead.
But Nigerians are very greedy they will drain you dry take the last pant of your buttoks.
While others are just begging for chicken feed.

Because nigerian criminals are the worst of criminals

Sincerely Speaking, This 419 thing has got Nigeria and Nigerians in lots of Problem than we can handle but i really wont blame them, since we have a weak law enforcement agency and since the past govt and the present ones have shown people that the only way to make it in life is by stealing or looting money. You would be Opperesed and Tempted if you aint made because you see the likes Of Tafa Balogun flashing luxirous cars, you would see Ade Bendel Flashing all these luxuries and Nigerians still repects them and they choose them to be role models.

In my own Opinion, Nigeria Encourages 419, Nigeria is full of Greedy peeps and they just want everything for themselves and their children alone. The Govt., The Citizens and we all need to let go of attaching importance to these theives and the 419. After reading that stuff from CNN, I felt real bad and Honestly not all these "Westerners" Aim at getting something in return. Some of them are just softhearted and they really wanna help africa and africans. I have heard from a boy who pretends to be a church in Nigeria and he receives a cheque every month and would you call that westerner's greed. We need to check ourselves and that would take some years and time i believe

Up Kimba, the real issue is that this generation has lost faith in the society and are hitting out back the only way they can even though its wrong and dont get me wrong but at times, the victims themselves arer deserving of being scammed. imagine a mail from someone who says she is a dictators wife and wants to hide some loot from the govt and you agree to do that, i mean you deserve to be scammed till you can't pay your bills.

Sexy-Ness,  my observations about the number of Igbos involved in 419 schemes is based entirely on the voice messages left for me by hunderds of con-men who spoke with that unmistakeable accent of the IGBO tribe.  Further evidence of this absolutely indisputable fact can be found in the AUDIO ARCHIVES at 419eater.com, and I challenge you now to visit that site, listen to a sample of the THOUSANDS of recorded voice-mail messages or telephone conversations stored there, and point out  A SINGLE ONE of those voices that speaks with a Nigerian accent that does not betray that distinctive Igbo intonation.

For the record, I remain in absolute awe of the intellectual capabilities of EDUCATED Igbo professionals and academics, and have made reference to this unusual cognitive gift here at this forum in the past.  Arguably, one of the greatest men to walk Nigerian soil is the late Major Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu, prime mover of the first 1966 military coup that sought to remove pathologically corrupt sit-tight Nigerian leaders from office.  There may be more like him alive today, but the international outlaw activities of their numerically superior criminal-minded tribesmen has rendered such daimonds in the rough virtually invisible to the outside world.

By many accounts, a new generation of Igbo men is growing up UNeducated in any discipline besides drug trafficking and internet fraud, and it is in dismayed recognition of this inexplicable reality that I made those recent posts under the topic of internet fraud.   Today far too much of Igboland's genetically endowed brain power is being harnessed to evil and utterly destructive ends, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

On this 419 issue, let me educate those trying to crucify Nigeria. See, whether you like it or not, Nigeria will be better than it is.

here:
The idea of Advanced Fee fraud, for which the internet is used as an advantage is what I would call the technology application of the Con man of the 60s, 70s, 80s etc.  But now, everyform of corruption is called 419, isnt it?
- those who are interested in fast businesses are called 419
- ladies who would be playing rich men, get their money and wont commit themselves to them are also 419. Even the rich men themselves looking for young and tight fun, are also 419.
- the students who cheat in their exams in school, and the teachers that collect the bribes are also 419
- the pastor that preaches error just to have people give offerings is 419. He even goes to the extent of posting nude pictures of his 'saints' on his website(definitely without their consent), all in the name of Jesus Christ is also 419. Somebody hasnt been informed: my naked picture is on the internet, the terms of some agreement when broken is also 419
- the rich men who want to double/triple their riches without hardwork are also 419
- the youth who cons the rich man from a cybercafe is also 419
- the rich man/guy in America/Europe, who is interested in a loot from an Oil company in Africa/ some huge amount from another country, the loot for which he didnt work for, the source of the money for which he cares not to know about, and who cries foul when he gets duped is also 419.
- the taxi man who refuses to give me my change is also 419.
- those that kidnap rich-kids and demand financial ransom in China are also 419.
- people that see 419 tendency acts perpetrated and refuse to say a word are 419.
- Policemen on Nigerian roads collecting 20naira are 419, and the taxi/bus drivers/private people who give it to them to save their necks are also 419. The touts who collect their own by the way side are also 419.
- Yes the armed robbers breaking into peoples houses are also 419
- those selling fake goods at twice the price of the original are also 419.
- am sorry, but George "city" who went looking for WMD in Iraq and hasnt found a needle and still innocent lives are lost day by day, a lot of children are becoming fatherless, and wives are becoming widows, and the taxis of well-meaning people are wasted are also 419, and Mr. Saddam himself is chief. All the terrorists terrorising the world are 419.
- those who don't pay their taxes are also 419
- and those who would copy email addresses from Nairaland and begin sending letters with it are NLs 419.
- even the woman who sells tomatoes at twice the price are also 419.
- I ordered for some CDs sometime ago and it took 4weeks to get to Nigeria. I shouted on the MD of the Canadian company in Lagos and called him 419.
- and when CNN adds a little salt and pepper to any news about Africa and Nigeria to make it worse than it actually is, tell me, that is 419. Somebody paid somebody who paid somebody to put it in the press, coz somebody has a lot to benefit from such bad news.
- have you wondered why for example, a TV documentary on Africa even in 2006 always starts with a lion and many animals and half clad women, while a documentary on a country in Europe/America always starts with healthy looking people, cars, children in school etc? tell me? thats 419.
- and if you can add 418+1 and get 419, then you are also 419. 
now, I can go on and on

Now, ive not yet gone overboard, Yes, lets restrict this talk to Advance Fee Fraud only and Yes,
@Mr Filch

You are trying to justify the criminal actions of the Nigerian scammers by saying that the victims deserve it and should be also treated as criminals. That is just crazy and unfortunately typical view of an uneducated person.

Its like you are the uneducated fellow in here, because you are looking at the issue with only one eye. Yes, both the victims and the criminals should be treated as criminals, because the victims definitely had something up their sleeve.

answer the question please:
Mr. Filch. If you get one of those letters with all the proposals etc., and if some amount was to be transferred into/through your account, and for which you get a percentage;, and if a miracle happens and the money really lands prime-time in your account, you verify it and everything is intact.
Give me the answers bro:
1) Would you still cry foul?
2) Tell me that you wont begin to talk of a good fortune?
3) tell me that you would go to the police saying "I want to report that the money in my account is not mine".

Yes, thats why i say both the perpetrators and those who fall victim are criminals, because if everything worked well, and they get the millions of pounds real-time, no body will hear about it. Am i not wrong/right?

Again, am I wrong to say that no loots has been transferred out of a country into another? out of a bank in an impoverished country into another? How many rich men of today have illegal money in swiss accounts? are they all Nigerians? and why is Switzerland not giving back all those moneys to their rightful owners? im talking ill gotten wealth here, are they not 419?,  investing it on behalf of somewhere and in things no one knows about?

Can somebody please explain the meaning of "classified" in the U.S of A. Is everything labelled "classified" actually legal?

kimba:


@Mr FilchIts like you are the uneducated fellow in here, because you are looking at the issue with only one eye. Yes, both the victims and the criminals should be treated as criminals, because the victims definitely had something up their sleeve.

answer the question please:
Mr. Filch. If you get one of those letters with all the proposals etc., and if some amount was to be transferred into/through your account, and for which you get a percentage;, and if a miracle happens and the money really lands prime-time in your account, you verify it and everything is intact.
Give me the answers bro:
1) Would you still cry foul?
2) Tell me that you wont begin to talk of a good fortune?
3) tell me that you would go to the police saying "I want to report that the money in my account is not mine".

Yes, thats why i say both the perpetrators and those who fall victim are criminals, because if everything worked well, and they get the millions of pounds real-time, no body will hear about it. Am i not wrong/right?

Again, am I wrong to say that no loots has been transferred out of a country into another? out of a bank in an impoverished country into another? How many rich men of today have illegal money in swiss accounts? are they all Nigerians? and why is Switzerland not giving back all those moneys to their rightful owners? im talking ill gotten wealth here, are they not 419?, investing it on behalf of somewhere and in things no one knows about?

Can somebody please explain the meaning of "classified" in the U.S of A. Is everything labelled "classified" actually legal?

You cannot treat someone (victim) like a criminal when no crime has been commited by the victim. If the money the fraudsters were offering does indeed exist, then there might be merit in your argument.

You cannot prosecute someone legally for attempting to steal imaginary money.

Now if you're trying to say they somehow deserve being scamed in this way, then that's a different story.

@ Kimba

The lengths you have gone to condone the actions of these criminals has has cemented in my mind the belief that you are or have been involved in these scams in the past yourself or maybe members of your immediate family are actively involved.

There is no defense in any form for the actions of these scum. They are one of the main cancers in Nigerian society and are responsible for the demise of Nigeria.

Any honest, hard working Nigerian with even the smallest of morals would be sick by your suggestion that the victims are the guilty parties.

Whilst this type of mentality exists I see Little chance that Nigeria will move forward and improve conditions for it's people. It is an extremely sad situation and one that needs to be addressed.

@Babadee,
thank you O, jare,

@Mr. Filch

How many times will I tell you I do not condone the actions of the 419 people? See, I stand not to defend the perpetrators, neither would I defend the victims. And by the way, you didnt answer my questions the first time I asked them.

If you go ahead and answer now, I know you're lying.


@Mariory

You cannot treat someone (victim) like a criminal when no crime has been commited by the victim. If the money the fraudsters were offering does indeed exist, then there might be merit in your argument.

You cannot prosecute someone legally for attempting to steal imaginary money. 

Now if you're trying to say they somehow deserve being scamed in this way, then that's a different story.

Ok, fine, you cannot prosecute someone legally for attempting to steal imaginary money. how about the attempt to steal? is that right too? if you try to rob a bank and you were unsuccessful, but you got away from the police, does that make you guiltless?

Are you a lawyer? Ok, lets talk law here: assume, both the 419 victim and the 419 victor were working on the imaginary.

So (1) both of them had the motive to steal. One wanted to get the loot he didnt work for, which he assumes is a reality. The other one, who knows the loot is a dream works on the assumption that the victim would buy the idea and send him some money to process whatever. Whichever way you put it, both of them had a motive, and if this can be proven in court, both of them are guilty, (yes/no) Intent to commit murder is an offense. So intent to rob a country is one too.

(2) If you say that one cannot be prosecuted who is attempting to steal imaginary money, then until some amount of money (from the victim to the victor) arrives in 419victors hands, he hasnt done anything wrong? is that what you are implying?  And until the victim who wants to loot sends some phoney amount down to the perpetrator, he hasnt done anything wrong too?

The fact that both the perpetrator and the victim even engage in such lengthy discussions, eventually gain the trust of each other, (note: the 419victim trusted the 419victor first for him to send him some money) and there is a motive from one to the other, is there enough ground to prove their guilt?

Note: if the 419 victim did not continue responding to the 1000emails he's receiving, he wont have ended up a victim.
If I were the police in charge, both of you would go behind bars, even if you'll have to spend less time than the actual perpetrators.

just like babadee said

imagine a mail from someone who says she is a dictators wife and wants to hide some loot from the govt and you agree to do that, i mean you deserve to be scammed till you can't pay your bills.

The question is why were you interested in the loot belonging to another government. The fact is, at the time you decided to send some money to whoever you were talking with, you thought the loot was real, and if indeed it was real, you would have been happy stealing from another government.

I'm saying get real. If you hear that mobs are on the street and you decide to take a walk, you shouldnt cry foul when you get shot in the head. So both the mobs and you that heard there are mobs on the street have caused some problems for the rest of the innocent people.

Kimba you must try to understand that HONEST and LAW ABIDING Nigerians are ironically some of the greatest long-term victims of the 419 crime-wave because of they lose business opportunities and credibility everywhere they go in the world as a direct result of the mortal damage done to the reputation of ALL Nigerians by those unrepentant career fraudsters you defend so passionately in your writing.

It should therefore come as no surprise to you that Nigerians who work honest jobs for a living at home and in the diaspora would HATE and DESPISE with an abiding malevolence all of their compatriots involved in web-based fraud and trans-national drug running, with the deepest revulsion reserved for any person who openly attempts to legitimize or rationalize such crime, as you seem so desperate to do with your flawed logic and repetitive hyperbole.

If you are in fact a 419 scam artist, rest assured that INTERPOL will eventually track you down with the very technology you depend on to facilitate those scams, and subsequently will slam-dunk you in JAIL so hard your head will spin from the concussive effects for months afterward as you begin your hard-time sentence.  Such justice takes time as the evidence and trial of clues are methodically pursued, but eventually NO corner of the globe will be remote enough to conceal you as you duck and hide with the futility of a terrified wounded rabbit fleeing before a pack of baying blood-hounds.

I don't have statistics on the amount of Nigerians doing these internet scams, but I do know that it is not restricted to Nigerians alone, We just have the name for it because I guess we started THIS ONE,

There are millions of scams that are perpetrated daily and not by Nigerians, I mean look at the recent embezzelments that have taken place in the US with Enron and now Fannie Mae, People scam all over the place, someone has to be the scape goat,

Also, the people that come up with these scams are far from lazy, in fact they are very smart and apparently dedicated to their art so much so that it has spread world wide, don't they deserve some admiration for that?

@Reverend

It is not acceptable true. But the question is, who falls victim to this scams?

Is money laundering a legal thing to do?

Is helping someone get away with ill gotten gains legal?

Is helping someone steal legal too?

You tell us.

The scammed person is a theif just like the scammer himself. Lets call a spade a spade.

@ Munachu

Also, the people that come up with these scams are far from lazy, in fact they are very smart and apparently dedicated to their art so much so that it has spread world wide, don't they deserve some admiration for that?

So you want people to admire these criminal scum! You are a prime example of the trash that call themselves human beings. Your mentality is dispicable and degenerate in the extreme. I utterly detest people like you and I think that you must have a large part of your brain cells missing. You are part of the cancer that is destroying Nigeria. There is only one cure for cancer and that is to cut it out! half measures are not going to work!

I can see from your post that like Kimba you must also be heavily involved in these crimes.

@ Kazey

You should also be ashamed of yourself!