JesusisLord85:

Well, you under stand 1,2,3,4,5,6,,7,8,9,10.
So you must understand 1st trumpet, 2nd,3rd, to 7th. So you must also understand you do err.

i understand numerals. i do not understand 1st trumpet, 2nd, 3rd to 7th. kindly explain, thanks.

T girl

I received your PM. Did you get my reply?

Image123:

i understand numerals. i do not understand 1st trumpet, 2nd, 3rd to 7th. kindly explain, thanks.

I will copy paste what I said before:

Matthew 24:29 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"

Ok, so the sun and moon will be darkened. According to Revelation, this does not happen until after the 6th seal is opened:

Revelation 6:12 “12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood”

So what else happened AFTER the tribulation, AFTER this moon darkening takes place?

13-16 "and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

God's wrath and tribulation are indeed separate events, with tribulation some period beforehand.

we are to base the whole thread on some sun darkening event? Are
you aware that there more than one sun darkenings in Revelations,
and that Matthew 24 is not chronologically written?

Image123: we are to base the whole thread on some sun darkening event? Are you aware that there more than one sun darkenings in Revelations, and that Matthew 24 is not chronologically written?

Ah, every fable needs its own working assumptions.

And Jehovah God can darken the sun a million times.

network is so poor, would have to do something more productive.

Image123: And Jehovah God can darken the sun a million times.

network is so poor, would have to do something more productive.

lol if you say so. sounds like you've been eating from the tree of legends and myths

JesusisLord85:

lol if you say so. sounds like you've been eating from the tree of legends and myths

Can God darken the sun a million times?

DrummaBoy: T girl

I received your PM. Did you get my reply?

Yea, and I replied.

Tgirl4real:

Hmmm...

I am thinking probably cos we haven't experienced these kinds of persecutions first hand, we don't see it as such. Just thinking...

My question: Has the Man of Lawlessness being revealed?

I know you mentioned the pope, why do you think so cos he doesn't git totally into the descriptions in the prophecies.

Many presidents are now men of lawlessness. They now interpret constitutions to suit their desire, Imagine a man get a jail term that cannot be served, have relationship with prostitutes etc and still have guts to address press conferences. please don't come to Naija. We have men of lawlessness or better still men who are laws unto themselves.

For me, the US is a good place to look for the master of the lawless pack. Followed by China etc all. They fight in public and chum up in private

Image123:

Can God darken the sun a million times?

What God can do, and has told us he will do are two different things. Jesus can come back on a black lion, but he won't, so what's the point you are making there. In fact, don't tell me, not interested. Quite obvious from the very shaky foundation of this rapture theory that it is nothing but nonsense. If you want to buy into it, have fun.

JesusisLord85:

I will copy paste what I said before:

Matthew 24:29 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"

Ok, so the sun and moon will be darkened. According to Revelation, this does not happen until after the 6th seal is opened:

Revelation 6:12 “12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood”

So what else happened AFTER the tribulation, AFTER this moon darkening takes place?

13-16 "and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

God's wrath and tribulation are indeed separate events, with tribulation some period beforehand.

Like i have stated earlier, the darkening of the sun is not a once in a lifetime event. God can darken the sun as many times as He chooses so its not a fixed once. The sun was darkened when Jesus was on the cross, and also in this other passage in Revelation. The sun is darkened in many stormy situations if you have ever experienced one.
Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Jesus Christ said that there would be sign[b]S[/b] in the sun. Signs, not just one sign, but signs. That's why i tried to get you to seeing that God can darken the sun a million times.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Here are some other sun darkenings in revelations apart from the one you quoted.
-Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
-Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
-Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Sun darkening can easily be tied to any of the above different events. Jesus said the time of great tribulation will be the worst period ever on earth. Are we to conclude that it is worse than the time of God's wrath, or that it is the same period?
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

enigma_otr: Matt. 24:9-Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Revelation 6:9-...I saw under the altar, the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

These two verses above gives pre-rapture persecution of believers. And to my understanding, tribulation is distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution. The great tribulation is the oppression and persecution of believers in the hand of non-believers, not God's wrath.

Matt. 24:12- And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Many believers will fall away. Deceived in to expecting a post-rapture tribulation, and when faced with unprecedented level of persecution many will think rapture isn't true afterall.

Matt. 24:21- For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor shall ever be.
22- And except those days should be shortened, there should be no flesh be saved, but for the elects sake, those days shall be shortened.

Believers still around in the great tribulation as described in the verses above.

Matt. 24:31- ...and they shall gather his elects from the four winds, from one end of the heaven to the other.(rapture)
...also... Revelation 7:9-...and, lo, a great multitude which no man could number...(believers from rapture).
What an Elder said about those that appeared in heaven in Revelation 7:14-... These are they that came out of great tribulation...

And wrath i think, means violent anger. And we can read about the wrath of God on the remnant of the inhabitant of the world after the great tribulation and rapture from Revelation 8.
If you have contrary view to the above, please feel free to share with us, backed with scripture.

Thanks.

I liked that you presented your points step by step with scriptures.

frosbel:

haha, good question

Do you just support anyone that happens to support what you believe at that time not minding the fundamentals (scriptural basis) of their theology?

I have seen you seconding Obadiahh777, Triuthislight, Bidam and so on on different topics.

JesusisLord85: So timeline.

Revelation is akin to 1st and 2nd Samuel, 1st and 2nd Kings, and 1st and 2nd Chronicles..or even the gospels. It is the same story told more than once. In this case twice. Slice the book in half. Chapters 1-11, and 12-22, that should make it more easy to read.

So earlier I mentioned that the devil knows his time is short. This is after he is cast down to earth. You see, I used to think the devil was in hell - he is not.

1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour"

And we know from the book of Job that he actually goes between earth and the heavenly realm conversing with God.

Job 1:6-7 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

Revelation explains that he will be cast down upon the earth after a war in heaven:

Revelation 12:7-12
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This is where the tribulation comes in. He goes to persecute believers:

Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

*next, someone here will tell me the saints are the Jews only* lol

At the end of the tribulation, this is when the mood darkens. It is SIGN that our salvation is near.

Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

At this point God will pour his wrath. Sodom and Gomorrah has prophetic significance:

Luke 17:28- 30: "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed."

Praise God for the word of truth.

I had to go back to the beginning to fetch this . . .

I don't get the bit about the devil being cast down...Are you saying that event is yet to occur?

Tgirl4real:

Do you just support anyone that happens to support what you believe at that time not minding the fundamentals (scriptural basis) of their theology?

I have seen you seconding Obadiahh777, Triuthislight, Bidam and so on on different topics.

Wetin bidam do you na? Just because bidam believes in speaking in tongues,prosperity and tithes,bidam fundamental theology dey wrong/Chei bidam don suffer

Any way you also may be wrong..It's only Jehovah that has the final say.

Image123:

Like i have stated earlier, the darkening of the sun is not a once in a lifetime event. God can darken the sun as many times as He chooses so its not a fixed once. The sun was darkened when Jesus was on the cross, and also in this other passage in Revelation. The sun is darkened in many stormy situations if you have ever experienced one.
Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Jesus Christ said that there would be sign[b]S[/b] in the sun. Signs, not just one sign, but signs. That's why i tried to get you to seeing that God can darken the sun a million times.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Here are some other sun darkenings in revelations apart from the one you quoted.
-Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
-Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
-Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Sun darkening can easily be tied to any of the above different events. Jesus said the time of great tribulation will be the worst period ever on earth. Are we to conclude that it is worse than the time of God's wrath, or that it is the same period?
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Not sure if you understand, or even why you highlighting tribulation.

So, "after the tribulation of those days", sun shall be darkened. That mention in matthew is echoed in revelation, they are speaking about the end (though not all of matthew is about the end). So that is 6th seal.

God's own wrath comes after the tribulation you helpfully highlighted

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Messiah will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

What do you not understand about LAST? As in, final. None thereafter. Jokers!
They are talking about what will happen after the tribulation of those days.

"I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Yeshua, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Messiah one thousand years. The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-6)

So those who are part of the first resurrection did not worship the beast or take his mark. It also implies that they had the opportunity to worship the beast and take his mark, but they refused it. They were here during the tribulation, and they faced the persecution, and at the resurrection they are being rewarded for their faithful endurance.

That is all.

Bidam: Wetin bidam do you na? Just because bidam believes in speaking in tongues,prosperity and tithes,bidam fundamental theology dey wrong/Chei bidam don suffer

Any way you also may be wrong..It's only Jehovah that has the final say.

I laffed out so loud everyone around me is wondering if I am ok.

Those things you listed further confirms you got your theology wrong.

JesusisLord85:

Not sure if you understand, or even why you highlighting tribulation.

So, "after the tribulation of those days", sun shall be darkened. That mention in matthew is echoed in revelation, they are speaking about the end (though not all of matthew is about the end). So that is 6th seal.

God's own wrath comes after the tribulation you helpfully highlighted

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Messiah will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

What do you not understand about LAST? As in, final. None thereafter. Jokers!
They are talking about what will happen after the tribulation of those days.

"I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Yeshua, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Messiah one thousand years. The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-6)

So those who are part of the first resurrection did not worship the beast or take his mark. It also implies that they had the opportunity to worship the beast and take his mark, but they refused it. They were here during the tribulation, and they faced the persecution, and at the resurrection they are being rewarded for their faithful endurance.

That is all.

Wow!

You just answered one of the questions I was gonna ask.

I was gonna ask about the ressurection, cos from that scripture the unbelieving dead will not rise until the time of judgement, which is after the millennial reign.

Tgirl4real:

Do you just support anyone that happens to support what you believe at that time not minding the fundamentals (scriptural basis) of their theology?

I have seen you seconding Obadiahh777, Triuthislight, Bidam and so on on different topics.

I would like to think that is not only healthy , but important , to agree with even those we disagree with overall , on issues where they get it right.

We are all learning.

frosbel:

I would like to think that is not only healthy , but important , to agree with even those we disagree with overall , on issues where they get it right.

We are all learning.

OK. I get you, it's the mockery part I don't get, like you did to Demi on your goodnews thread.

I guess I am guilty of same too.

We all are learning.

barcanista: There is NO Great Tribulation ANYWHERE. The book of REVELATION IS APOCASLYPTIC- It's a book of Signs and Symbols(Read Revelation 1:1-2 carefully). It was written to the Christian churches as an encouragement DURING THERE PERSECUTION IN the hands of the ROMANS. The Anti-Christ(that is opposing christ) represent the Roman Empire. The book was specific saying IT IS HAPPENING(Read Rev. 1 and 2 again). Already some churches were derailing from the faith, others were falling off, CHRIST encouraged them through John and also rebuked derailin churches(Read revelation 1-chapter 4). The mark 666 is not literal but symbolic, it symbolises the CERTIFICATES one must possess to buy and sell-which you must DENY christ as a christian to obtain. AS at then, Christian Population wasn't much, they were few but spreadin. You can't divorce Christianity from Reading roman history... PLS STOP SPREADING DOGMATIC doctrines. As for the Rapture(Well all we know is that there will be 2nd coming where Jesus will hand over the church(his kingdom on earth to God) and then the sinners will face punishment. NO anti-christ whether military or spiritual will rule the world. AGAIN ITS SYMBOLIC. MAT 24 talked about destruction of The Temple(Jerusalem) Read Mat. 24:1-3 CAREFULLY... Like i said, we shouldn't be dogmatic or impressionistic in our approach. Its very EASY to PROOF-READ from the Bible to SUIT your stance. Shalom

the person that wrote this ur name is sorry I pray u don't deceive people over here coz the demon in hell won't have mercy for people likke u if u end up in hell thanks

JesusisLord85:

Not sure if you understand, or even why you highlighting tribulation.

So, "after the tribulation of those days", sun shall be darkened. That mention in matthew is echoed in revelation, they are speaking about the end (though not all of matthew is about the end). So that is 6th seal.

God's own wrath comes after the tribulation you helpfully highlighted

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Messiah will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

What do you not understand about LAST? As in, final. None thereafter. Jokers!
They are talking about what will happen after the tribulation of those days.

"I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Yeshua, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Messiah one thousand years. The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-6)

So those who are part of the first resurrection did not worship the beast or take his mark. It also implies that they had the opportunity to worship the beast and take his mark, but they refused it. They were here during the tribulation, and they faced the persecution, and at the resurrection they are being rewarded for their faithful endurance.

That is all.

kindly come down to my wavelength, i'm trying to discuss with you?

Tgirl4real:

I laffed out so loud everyone around me is wondering if I am ok.

Those things you listed further confirms you got your theology wrong.

Says who? Not the bible i read sis..

Any way God's foundation stands sure and that is "Thou at Christ the Son of the Highest"..we all disagree to agree at some point.

@ Frosbel,

I read your response to Image on page 6. I don't wanna quote cos it's long.

Q: which earth are we inheriting? is it this same one?

Tgirl4real: @ Frosbel,

I read your response to Image on page 6. I don't wanna quote cos it's long.

Q: which earth are we inheriting? is it this same one?

The scripture teaches that it is the new earth, not this one. This one will pass away after what you called the millenial reign.

Tgirl4real: @ Frosbel,

I read your response to Image on page 6. I don't wanna quote cos it's long.

Q: which earth are we inheriting? is it this same one?

Same earth !


"A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever." - Ecclesiastes 1:4

frosbel:

Same earth !


"A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever." - Ecclesiastes 1:4

Same earth how? So what happens to 2peter 3:10-14. ?

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[b] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

^^^^

I take what the scriptures say at face value, forever surely means forever , no ?

Read : Isaiah 24

frosbel: ^^^^

I take what the scriptures say at face value, forever surely means forever , no ?

Read : Isaiah 24

Yeah the scripture is not wrong. The earth reamains forever whether as present earth or new earth. Peter didn't tell us the earth will cease to exist, which confirms the ecclesiastes you quoted. The EARTH remains but renewed this time according to peter. I just wanted to understand where you are heading to or do you still have more to what I ve said? Feel free to present it. We are all learning. Cheers.

Thank God you now believe that forever is forever in the scriptures because the other thread of hell fire debate where I quoted the book of revelation 20:10 where the scriptures talked about satan and the false prophets being tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever, you told me its not actually what it means.

[quote author=alexleo]

Yeah the scripture is not wrong. The earth reamains forever whether as present earth or new earth. Peter didn't tell us the earth will cease to exist, which confirms the ecclesiastes you quoted. The EARTH remains but renewed this time according to peter. I just wanted to understand where you are heading to or do you still have more to what I ve said? Feel free to present it. We are all learning. Cheers.

Yes bro, the earth is renewed but before that happens, all the present wicked works, systems and products of wicked sinners will be destroyed by fire. The earth will be purged of evil.

Thank God you now believe that forever is forever in the scriptures because the other thread of hell fire debate where I quoted the book of revelation 20:10 where the scriptures talked about satan and the false prophets being tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever, you told me its not actually what it means.

Revelation is highly symbolic.

frosbel: Revelation is highly symbolic.

Says you. Where did the scripture say it. Am not taking your word sir. Show me.