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Stats: 2,158,763 members, 4,702,117 topics. Date: Thursday, 17 January 2019 at 02:12 PM
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by netsurfer01(m): 4:23am On Dec 25, 2018|
Is STATISTICS a good alternative?
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 5:46am On Dec 25, 2018|
Yup. However you'll want to learn the ffg in your spare time - Excel (master this), SPSS, and python.
Here's a trick to becoming proficient with programming in a less than a week. Whenever you learn a new mathematical formula, implement it in python.
Write a program that will accept scores of students in a math exam. And then print out the mean, variance, chi-square distribution, standard deviation... There are python libraries for turning the scores into a graph.
You'll learn much faster this way than if you tried to learn the entire features of python first. This is how I learned qbasic in the 90s.
You can also study accounting on the side and become a chartered accountant if you like. Or even pick up marketing - digital marketers can easily earn more than programmers (if you know what you're doing.)
If you want to discuss this further, email me: firstname.lastname@example.org
If you're emailing me, mention this thread.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 5:30pm On Dec 26, 2018|
Same thing would have been said by quacks about Medicine, Pharmacy, Law, Architecture, Piloting and Nursing if these professions were not regulated.
Saying 4 Years on Computer Science in University is a waste is like saying laying the foundation of a house is a waste of time.
Quacks make the loudest noise in computer programming because there is no regulation to keep them off.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Intellab(m): 12:13am On Dec 27, 2018|
Misleading post. Follow this and fall like bodoquascar.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 7:53am On Dec 27, 2018|
Please don't let me insult you for this rubbish. U should be asking for the time analysis of the algorithms. What is there in algorithms? Which algorithms? Searching? Sorting? Don't let me ask you theoretical computer science questions that will leave you thinking for days.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 9:06am On Dec 27, 2018|
This is what I'm talking about. Resorting to threats as if i insulted your political party or pastor or chief priest.
You did not refute the fact that you'll only dance on the surface of programming languages - including outmoded ones. The mostly mathematical nature of CSI...
Since you've mentioned "time analysis" how many times have you actually used big o notation in an actual development project?
More importantly, are you actually a developer? Really hope you can answer cos, the last guy fighting me for CU CSI confessed he couldn't program but can "manage developers" like that's what the guys asking questions here want.
Ps: Please ask the theoretical questions "that will leave me thinking for days." That's what Google is for. Students shouldn't have to memorize stuff they can Google.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 9:21am On Dec 27, 2018|
This is where there's a difference. Computer Science is NOT about programming! Programming/Developing is the "OND" of computing. Can I develop? YES. Do I currently do so? NO because job responsibilities have escalated. You talked about when last I used time analysis. It's like asking when last the cylinders in your car's engine were pressure tested. Probably only during manufacturing. BUT if they weren't you'd not be driving today. The intricacies in safely pressure testing is part of what sets a mechanical engineer aside from a mechanic. The theories of Computing is what sets aside a Computer SCIENTIST from a programmer/developer. Think about it, if your DFS algorithm wasn't time optimal would a developer use. But the developer has absolutely no care in the world how the algorithm evolved for him to use. Computer Science transcends development. The fact that what the world sees is the job of the developer does not now then reduce computing to that. Do you know the volume of research on going that common developers cannot even begin to comprehend
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 10:22am On Dec 27, 2018|
Now we agree on something. Like i have been saying repeatedly here Computer science is not about programming. And that's what the original creator or this thread wants to learn - programming.
Much of what computers science teaches are already automated. If you know what STL is you'll know it contains all the basic algorithms taught in the university and more - including compression schemes, file organization, error checking, encryption and more.
You basically admitted you almost never use the time complexity knowledge. If i was your boss, I'd probably fire you for writing one because benchmarking software, debuggers and profilers will do it much better than you can.
Many white guys on Hacker admit that you only need comp SCI knowledge is you're writing a compiler, file system, operating system or some HIGHLY specialized software.
You can insult programmers if you want as OND level work. Doesn't change the fact that you don't get to use most of what you learn in comp SCI.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 10:28am On Dec 27, 2018|
Wrong. Computer Science is not only about programming but involves very complex programming.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 10:30am On Dec 27, 2018|
Please read what you wrote.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 10:33am On Dec 27, 2018|
Wrong. Computer Science is not only about programming but also involves very complex programming.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 10:41am On Dec 27, 2018|
That's also to say that James Gosling the creator of Java wasted his time getting a Bachelor of Science and his M.A. and Ph.D. all in computer science.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 10:46am On Dec 27, 2018|
No vex. Even the person i was reply to just admitted that computer science is not about programming. And that is what I've repeated multiple times on this thread.
Many people just want the computer science title and certificate and that's fine by me.
However those who want to become programmers will be very disappointed and frustrated when studying that course.
If they don't even help you master basic app or web development, i don't see how they can teach complex programming.
If you say they teach complex theories, I'll agree with the theory part. As for complex, not in Nigeria. Basically you'll out of date knowledge.
The poster above probably a PM mentioned cutting edge theories and research. You won't learn any of those in Nigeria.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 11:23am On Dec 27, 2018|
Again you expose some folly! Anywhere on earth people are taught differentiation from the first principles even in Yale and Harvard. Why? Because even though machines can do it better, humans have to know what is being done in the event that humans have to intervene.
You admitting that computer science knowledge is required only for highly specialised software is sought of a roundabout way of admitting that Computer Science knowledge is needed. For if there was no compiler or worse still no operating system, the application programmer programmes in vane. And no, the title of the thread does not say why waste 4-years studying Programming. It says "Why waste 4 years studying Computer Science". So if the ordinary application developer needs the compiler (or OS) developer how can the years studying then be a waste?
The fact that any engineering student does well when he/she does accounting (via ACCA or ICAN) does that now make studying accounting a wasted 4 years? Or does the fact that you can do book-keeping now render B.Sc. Accounting a waste?
If u think calling a programmer an OND (equivalent of a technician) is akin to an insult then I am utterly ashamed and disappointed in you. You don't know the hierarchy then
Well I guess a mechanic will say a mechanical engineer is wasting his five years. Or a butcher will say a surgeon is wasting his 12+ years.
I'm the equivalent of a surgeon. If u choose to be the butcher then you are welcome to see my education as a "waste".
Like MI said "I'm solar energy and you are a generator, I'm a PC and you're a cheap calculator...."
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 12:19pm On Dec 27, 2018|
This is like you saying a degree in Architecture does not teach you how to design buildings, a degree in Medicine does not tech you how to become a doctor or a surgeon, a degree in Pharmacy does not teach you how to become a Pharmacist, a Law degree does not teach you how to become a lawyer.
A quack doctor or Pharmacist would say having a degree in these professions is a waste of time because these courses cover too much stuff you don't need.
What you need to know is that a degree in computer science gives you transferable skills, this mean you can work as a programmer, project manager, QA etc in any sector and if you have the time you can create your own programming language.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 12:48pm On Dec 27, 2018|
A Nigerian computer science degree will NOT teach you to design a language. As for transferable skill. You don't need the CS degree to be a PM or to be a manager.
As for architecture they spend a lot of time in school actually drawing buildings on paper. Not the same with computer science.
I shouldn't be arguing with you on this if you didn't actually study the course cos i did from covenant university. I'm not pulling arguments out of my arse.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 12:56pm On Dec 27, 2018|
It's okay to be disappointed with me. It's not a popularity contest.
Thank God you mentioned surgeons. Can you imagine a surgeon who can not perform surgery but can tell you the procedures, name the tools used for surgery, quote cutting edge surgery techniques from memory?
That's what computer science graduates are. All theory and no programming skill.
Surgeons are surgeons because in addition to the theory, they practice for hundreds of hours on animals, dead bodies and synthetic tissues.
But that's not enough. They also watch surgeons perform real surgery, assist in the planning and execution of real surgery before they are allowed to call themselves surgeons.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the schools for skipping the programming part of the course.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 1:20pm On Dec 27, 2018|
U fail to get it do you? The programming language u will use in 10years time is currently being developed by today's Computer Scientists! So to put it simply, the future cutting edge tools of your programming trade are already play things for today's Computer Scientists.
Butchers aren't surgeons please.
By the time programmers are tripping for PHP and all, Computer scientists were long done with that and were already in AI and ML
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 1:47pm On Dec 27, 2018|
Can you list all the courses or modules you studied in computer science at covenant university and what your final year project was about?
With architecture you have a list of the areas below to specialise in, same with computer science it gives skills to specialise in different fields of computing.
1- Residential Architect
2- Commercial Architect
3- Interior Designer
4- Green Design Architect
5- Landscape Architect
6- Urban Designer
7- Industrial Architect
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 2:00pm On Dec 27, 2018|
It was 2004. Would you be able to remember? Final year i built two people's web app minus mine.
You're not going to come out here and lie that majority of Nigerian science / engineering students don't pay people to do their final year project.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 2:04pm On Dec 27, 2018|
Of course i can't get you. For every language designer, there are millions of code maintainers, web app devs, normal everyday automation that isn't mission critical.
Would you allow a surgeon who didn't do clinicals, house-manship to open you up?
I hope you say yes.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 2:08pm On Dec 27, 2018|
But this should not be difficult for you to do. If you cannot remember one or two of the courses or modules you did, you can check them on your certificate.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 2:11pm On Dec 27, 2018|
Are you saying Nigerian universities have departments for these landscape for example?
Walk into any university in Nigeria and it'll be easy to point out the architectural students. They are always with a drawing board.
Even if they don't learn sketch up or autocad, most of their graduates will be able to draw a decent building.
You can't say the same for computer science students.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 2:15pm On Dec 27, 2018|
I've already mentioned a few before french, accounting, sociology, mathematics. Php, basic, prolog, java, c, c++, database design, calculus, quantitative math, philosophy, Christian stuff, compiler design....
Before you take this as proof of victory, note I've said before. All were intro. Spend 9 weeks in class with paper and 2 weeks in lab.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 2:18pm On Dec 27, 2018|
So with Php, basic, prolog, java, c, c++, database design what makes you think you have not learnt programming?
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 2:21pm On Dec 27, 2018|
Lmao. I'm speechless. You're a real programmer. I've written enough for those who need it.
You don win.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 2:38pm On Dec 27, 2018|
The problem you are facing is all over the world except in Canada, as programming is not a regulated profession and for this reason getting a programming job in many cases is who you know and not what you know and this is the reason billions in monetary value are wasted each year by organisations both public and private sectors as many of them would prefer to employ and train those without a degree in computer science or software engineering and yet with all the training they cannot program complex business requirements and the projects get scrapped because they lack the introductory skills you learnt in computer science which will help a computer science grad to quickly research and program the business requirements.
Canada is the only country in the world where you must have a degree in software engineering or take special exams before you can take up a job as a software engineer.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 2:44pm On Dec 27, 2018|
To be a surgeon you'd have to have done clinicals and housemanship. Training, in a UNIVERSITY!
On the contrary, you are encouraging quackery by promoting the idea the years spent in training is wasted because a roadside programmer can pick up YouTube vids. My argument remains that 4 years spent on studying computing in University even if it is in a Republic of Benin University, cannot be a waste. There are vast areas of specialisations in computing and programming is just a minuscule area.
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|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 3:00pm On Dec 27, 2018|
And our schools make people experts in those specialized areas like ML, ai, complier design, encryption, operating system design, distributed computing, cloud computing?
Btw even in Google, Amazon and Microsoft having an MBA gives you a better chance of managing programmers than studying computer science.
For serious people visit news.ycombinator.com daily and learn from the guys who actually build compilers, processors, AI, even CEOS of big companies.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 3:17pm On Dec 27, 2018|
Undergraduate degrees my brother are to open your minds to the possibility available in computer science! If this was an argument of a post graduate training I'd be taking a different stand. But for for undergraduate degrees it's ALWAYS introduction... U do a masters degree to get expert knowledge and specialise. In that your CU they teach you introduction to AI! Like they do in several universities in the UK and US. U leave knowing that in AI there's a goal, there's an agent(with sensors and actuators) there's a problem the agent wants to solve etc. Go abroad that "I'm a programmer with no university degree" and u want to study ML and see if someone with a "wasted years" computer science degree will not get admitted, graduate and start working before u
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 3:47pm On Dec 27, 2018|
Finally we agree on something. 4 years CS degree is to open your mind to possibilities in computing. Then masters to go in detail.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Darivie04: 5:59pm On Dec 27, 2018|
pjosh1:Not everyone who wants to study or is studying comp sci wants to be a programmer. There are other fields like theoretical computer science. And in science fields although you do not have to hold degrees to make meaningful contributions you do need a degree of some sort for people to take you seriously.
Computer Science ≠ Programming
So if your goal is programming alone a comp sci degree isn't necessary but if your goal is a field more theoretical or mathematical I suggest you think twice.
A large part of undergraduate computer science is introducing mathematical concepts having to do with computation, so I'm not surprised that some comp sci students say they've hardly done programming stuffs.
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