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Stats: 2,158,754 members, 4,702,083 topics. Date: Thursday, 17 January 2019 at 02:00 PM
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 9:08am On Dec 28, 2018|
Your comments are very misleading for those wishing to study computer science.
Waterfall methodology is still the most important methodology today.
Waterfall methodology covers the development of applications from start to finish. The new methodology you mentioned only allows for incremental development like agile and this just makes Waterfall more flexible. You cannot develop an application that allow customers to put money in their account then tell the customers the application to allow then the get their money out is not yet ready, this is what you get if you are not using Waterfall methodology.
The knowledge you have acquired in computer science will make it easy for you to researh and learn a new programming language or technology better than someone without a computer science or software engineering degree.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 11:00am On Dec 28, 2018|
1970 vs 2001
Google: When was agile development invented?
Google: When was waterfall development invented?
Waterfall model was first introduced by Dr. Winston W. Royce in a paper published in 1970, the waterfall model is a software development process.
Dr. Jeff Sutherland is one of the inventors of the Scrum software development process. Together with Ken Schwaber, he created Scrum as a formal process at OOPSLA'95. Sutherland helped to write the Agile Manifesto in 2001.
For those who want to learn rather than regurgitate outdated information they crammed in school see:
For the adventurous, Google: Pair programming.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 12:53pm On Dec 28, 2018|
If you did truely studied computer science then l feel you were forced to do it and it was not something you studied because you had passion for. If not you would have seen the benefit of what you studied.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 1:22pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Again personal attacks rather than refuting with facts. After the back and forth yesterday, the pro computer science people said A whole 4 year degree is about opening your mind to the possibilities of computing. And then masters to go in detail.
Is that not scam, is that not wickedness?
You guys are talking as if we are talking Bout another country where there are ready jobs waiting for skill-less comp SCI graduates. So the company will train them.
No. It's a competitive world out there. They'll ask you theoretical questions no doubt. But at the end of the day, they'll decide on what you can do. What language you can use. What you have built. How many years experience...
Just give people realistic career advice so they can prepare themselves. Rather than creating yahoo Yahoo! graduates.
One of top coders in my office is an accounting major. Our frontend developer - UI guy whose salary is more than combined four developer salary is a psychology grad. I know how many comp SCI grads we turn away monthly.
Come make Una no vex me. I've been civil enough.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 1:49pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Like I said before because computer science is not a regulated profession, most of the programming jobs is who know and not what you know, and they will only get in a computer science or software engineering graduate if it's a must that they have to complete a complex programming project.
Universities should encourage their computer science students to try learn another profession after computer science so that they can apply what they have learnt to solve real life challenges to create applications they can market for themselves.
You need to do your research about other countries you mentioned. See the links below even in europe the situation is the same.
"Computer science graduates: why do they top unemployment tables?
With the growth in IT jobs beating the recession and continued reports of ... Yet, many employers complain that graduates are not being taught the skills ... So why are many recent UK computer science graduates unemployed? .... look at this, people who told me my English degrees wouldn't get me a job!"
Another useful comment below in europe on why Computer Science grads still finding it hard to get a job
"The point is not to match skills
...because companies usually have no idea what skills they need.
The point of education is to provide people with the ability to learn the skills they happen to need when they need it, plus the overview over the whole field so they can decide what technologies are the obvious traps and what technologies are actually useful. Of course vendors of crap technology see that a lot differently.
Teach people how to think, introduce them to as many fields as possible, that's the purpose of school. The purpose of university is not much different just the fields are a bit narrower."
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 5:16pm On Dec 28, 2018|
And as for your gibberish. I'm a Computing major leading the Accounting Team. Prior to that I lead the Supply Chain team. So does that then make a 4-year accounting degree a sham? Or a degree in Supply Chain Management a waste?
FYI the condition of the country has made it such that engineers are now in accounting. Does that make engineering degree or accounting degree a waste?
Anywhere in the world, including Harvard and Yale, first degrees are geared to opening your mind to the possibilities
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 6:18pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Open your mind for 4 years. Nice one. If we're to talk accounting - for job purposes, ICAN is more important than the first degree. So easy course for first degree to "open your mind" and then take ICAN on the side. By the time you get out you're more employable than the accounting major.
You're a prime example of what I've been saying. Explain what your accounting management role and supply chain's got to do with your computer science degree.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 7:31pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Change of Career bro! Ever heard of that? Started out as a developer back in the day when it was all about procedural programming with Pascal. Migrated to OOP with C++ and then on to Web dev.
Started learning programming with BASIC on an Amstrad way back in the day. Self taught my self this even though it never made sense to me. When I went into university, a lot of the stuff I was reading while learning BASIC became very clear.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 7:43pm On Dec 28, 2018|
airsaylongcon:In other words, your degree isn't useful in your current (head of accountants) and previous position (supply chain.) Are you a chartered accountant?
airsaylongcon:Self taught or university? Don't lie
airsaylongcon:I learned qbasic myself after secondary school on windows 98. And university CSI added absolutely nothing to my knowledge. So add more detail to how university made BASIC clearer.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by dreamchaser90(m): 7:58pm On Dec 28, 2018|
From my experience, most places in the world, first degree is geared towards opening up your mind. Then in Masters/Ph.D you can choose an area to specialize. The aim is to start wide and further specialize in an area as you study further.
And as others have earlier pointer out, Computer Science is more just programming. It involves a whole lot more. Even areas not seemingly directly related to Computer Science are covered. So saying the four years is a waste, is not looking at the whole picture.
And even outside Nigeria, if you just studied Computer Science in the university, it doesn't equip one with the skills to enter the job market as a programmer. That is why universities offer students the opportunity to go on internships or have work placements in order to acquire these skills. The practical skills acquired in addition to the theoretical knowledge already inculcated, makes for a better programmer.
Now for the question about whether Computer Science knowledge acquired is relevant at work, I'll say it is. I've had occasions to apply theoretical Computer Science knowledge in solving some problems. But that might be so because I develop critical systems where every millisecond counts, so that might not be the norm.
I would advice though that if one is aiming to just become a programmer or be involved in software development in general, then studying Software Engineering is a better choice. Because I've also seen a lot of Computer Science graduates struggle with programming or software development in general.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 8:37pm On Dec 28, 2018|
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 8:39pm On Dec 28, 2018|
God bless you. I said the exact same thing earlier.
Most people jump into computer science thinking that it'll make them competent programmers. They have no idea they'll need to further with masters and possibly PHD to achieve their aim.
I also mentioned that only those who dev mission critical systems get to use their CSI knowledge.
Febup:Look at what someone said to me.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 9:13pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Chartered? No. Not yet.
Self-taught or University? University taught... I still have the detailed study guide the instructor (Lecturer as they are wrongly called) used.
How did university make BASIC clearer?
I was in JS2 when I stumbled on the BASIC programming book. While I understood the input and output instructions, I didn't fully grasp the concepts of FOR loops (became complicated when they now said included STEP instructions or looped by decrementing), or the DIMension commands. It was when I was in class in university that these concepts became clear
As for my degree, it was the degree in the first place that enabled me get into those areas. I did two accounting electives in school, Financial Accounting and Management Accounting getting an A in both (my school required a score over 80 to get an A) as well as a course in Finance. All of these put me in good stead when the firm I worked with at the time drafted me to be part of the team developing A bespoke ERP solution for a local manufacturing firm. So I learnt supply chain in order to properly develop the SCM module in the ERP
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 9:32pm On Dec 28, 2018|
You modified your post and answered this before I asked.
Lucky you. Only two of my programming lecturers knew what they were doing. C and VB.
You're a self learner just like me. You learned using a book. I learned through practice. The qBasic interpreter taught me.
I mistakenly thought getting a CS degree would make me a programmer. I was utterly bored and frustrated in all my CS programming classes - throughout 4 year sentence.
From hearing your experience, I understand how wrong I was about the benefit of CS curriculum to the average student. I was an outlier - not the norm. Most CS students would hear about important computing concepts for the first time in their CS classes.
I still maintain however, that those who want mastery - not computing basics should study something else for their first degree.
We are now in an an age of cheap laptops and internet where self learners like us can pick basic to advanced computing concepts online for free on YouTube, Khan Academy. And paid sites like Udemy, Edx, Udacity, Lynda...
If you grew up now, you'd see things more from my angle.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 10:02pm On Dec 28, 2018|
I'm sure we are contemporaries cos I vaguely recall seeing that you finished uni in 2004?
When I went to Uni too I expected that I'd become a proficient programmer at the end. But do you know what caught my fancy? Cryptography. And it was just an introductory course long before crypto currencies became a fad. There was also another course called HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) that I could have veered into if I had more visual creativity. It is the content of that subfield of HCI that today drives all the fancy UX/UI stuff that developers brag about. Some Computer Science guy sat in the backroom doing research on how best to place elements in the Interface (not just a touch screen but on Interface such as a mouse, or the slightly embossed START button in the old Windows OS).
So to re-state my position, a degree in Computer Science from any university in the world is NOT a waste. Computer Science goes beyond programming.
Following from your analogy, with the widespread availability of YouTube, no one needs to go to university to become a Surgeon. There are loads of highly detailed videos on YouTube that illustrate all the techniques. One only needs to catch a rat (or dog or cow or even a human) to practice the techniques learnt on YouTube. I can see how one can quickly become a Surgeon in no time and without seeing the walls of a university
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 10:18pm On Dec 28, 2018|
airsaylongcon:I don't think they teach surgery on youtube. The Japanese advanced the field of medicine, neuroscience and surgery by performing experiments on their POW. If one can find human bodies to experiment on, with right tutorials, mastery is sure to come.
On a more serious note, you might want to check out Germany's alternative to university schooling. It enables one to become bridge engineers, aeronautical engineers, even lawyers without passing through a university. You overestimate universities too much.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by bjboss(m): 10:47pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Am currently studying computer sci. in school... if u say it doesnt worth,i agree cus i got frustrated in my first year but everything became clearer when i startd know wat it takes to study computer sci.
Computer sci. is not about programming. Computer sci is more of mathematics and its applications to solve computational problems,algorithm and designs, etc.
You wil appreciate it more when enter school and start looking into some cool mathematics
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 11:08pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Yeah I did ask this question, but you have not come up with an answer. There was a typo which I have corrected earlier.
Universities cannot teach you every programming language on this planet, but they will teach you the concept of programming which you can apply to learn any programming language you like, but I'm surprised you did not mention Socket programming, Assembly language, Batch and Bash Scripting in the list you gave, did they not cover these?
Even if you study a degree in accounting you don't automatically become a chartered accountant in Nigeria you will still have to join ICAN if you have 36 months experience in accounting and 48 months accounting experience for those for those with a different degree or those that have AAT or you can take the ACCA exams but if you already have a degree in accounting this will give you an edge and possibly some exemptions from the ACCA exams.
The problem with programming is that because there is no regulated professional body like ICAN or ACCA and for this reason you feel all you learnt at uni was a waste.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 11:30pm On Dec 28, 2018|
See pic below after performing a quick search. A better crafted search term will definitely turn up more hits.
As regards finding human bodies to perform tutorials, I shudder. The medico-legal and ethical implications will surely give MDCN a swell time.
As regards over estimating the universities, I disagree. If one decides to acquire equivalent knowledge taught in a university via alternate means its fine. My point remains that neither you, nor anyone can say that I have wasted 4 years studying computer science in a University. Note however though that the body of knowledge of computer science is driven and directed by egg heads in a university (or some other research facility)
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 11:38pm On Dec 28, 2018|
Thank you for these points. I've always said that programming languages are exactly what they are LANGUAGES. If I speak say an old version of Yoruba does that make me less relevant than someone who speaks the modern version?
The critical thing is to learn the concepts. Whether I decide to express those concepts using Assembly Language or via PROLOG is inconsequential. Everything is translated to One's and Zeros in the end which is what the computer understands.
And I support your assertion that because the profession doesn't yet have a centralised body that's why anyone can enter the profession. Hopefully the Chartered status that the British Computer Society is currently using will become widespread and become the gold standard for the profession
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 11:40pm On Dec 28, 2018|
I agree with you 100%
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 12:10am On Dec 29, 2018|
airsaylongcon:You didn't waste your time in the university. Yes egg heads!
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by vezycash(m): 12:28am On Dec 29, 2018|
bjboss:Pm me before the year and I'll give you two udemy courses. One in algorithms and one on any programming language you want - zero naira. You'll have to prove its you.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 3:52pm On Dec 29, 2018|
You are wrong, computer science also involves programming, you can only learn coding syntax on youtube and with ebooks but you cannot learn programming on youtube or with ebooks as you need the introductory lectures in computer science to be able to make good use of the coding syntax on youtube and in ebooks. If you just want to learn basic web design then yes you can learn that on youtube and with ebooks but you are deceiving yourself if you call this programming. You cannot use youtube or ebooks to learn how to write complex scientific or business applications not to talk of Business Critical, Mission Critical or Life Critical Applications.
I would strongly recommend all Nigerian universities to convert all computer science courses to Software Engineering as has been done in Canada where Software Engineering is a Regulated Profession. Teaching Software Engineering instead of computer Science with allow students to apply all the maths they learn to solving real life programming challenges.
If you are a Software Engineering major and you are developing an air traffic control application for example you will first use software engineering mathematics to first prove that your application will not fail and then translate your mathematical formulas to any programming language you feel is best for the application. The image attached is just one example of the usefulness of the maths you do in computer science.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Gbengageorge: 3:08am On Dec 30, 2018|
I love the thread, but I will like to ask a question
"Why did Bill gate withdraw from school" he was very good but he said they are teaching him what he already knows. I think he should have finished the school.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 4:29am On Dec 30, 2018|
I would recommend that you watch the videos below on youtube.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 7:36am On Dec 30, 2018|
Thank you for the pic! Typical example of what you learn in computer science
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by airsaylongcon: 7:39am On Dec 30, 2018|
You raised a very good question. I believe once in a while a genius comes around that changes the game. I don't know if Bill is one of those but he certainly is very close if he isn't.
Just to give you something to chew on, why does Microsoft (and Facebook) not recruit "drop outs"
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Febup: 7:53am On Dec 30, 2018|
No problem l will continue to do my best to make the benefits of studying computer science or sofware engineering available for those interested in pursuing these two professions so that they are not missled by those who have no clue of what computer science is about.
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Possessedchild: 3:59pm On Dec 30, 2018|
I am not a Computer Scientist, in fact I just found my way into computing because I have quite alot of friends in there.
But I can confidently profess my love for the course and I minored in the course in my undergraduate.
Computer Science is a discipline that encompasses quite some sections of information technology, statistics and Discrete Mathematics. You see, if you study till ages using Udemy, Youtube, CourseEra, Edx, KhanAcademy and the likes, I can guarantee you, your innovative thinking to implement a disruptive technology would be limited.
I laugh when I see people argue regards some famous drop-out's plight and there good ends. You need to conceptualize it this way, what do they have in common, what is driving there passion. They all had one thing in common, attending Ivy League Schools. The schools with intense and rigorous admission processes. That means for them to have gained admission, they are extra smart and naturally A student. Gates graduated from Lakeside School in 1973. Recorded he scored 1590 out of 1600 on the SAT and got enrolled at Harvard College (he was extremely smart like Zuckerberg). If he had proceeded to graduate, he would have grad with high GPA. But lazy students are using him as an excuse for failure I pity all of you ehn.
Now, they all started as guys who are radically passionate about Programming. I said this because Computer Science is more vast a planet than programming. You have Data Communication, Solution Architecture, High Performance Computing, Information Security(Cryptography), Business Intelligence, Data Science, Product Management etc. And they SOMETIMES work independently of programming, for example you can earn millions per month designing Power BI dashboards without writing single code. Though the code would deepen your knowledge in navigating your approach to develop with DAX. But without DAX, you can still import templates from Microsoft Market and initiate your design sense afterward.
Now you can not study through the learning platforms and expect to be versatile in all the aforementioned divisions of IT because you will NEVER understand data structures and algorithm design which bolster your chances to write better programs and evaluate your own code. Even I observed the Facebook early website, it was written in PHP OOP or Procedural, SHAME! But due to him recruiting better hands, they could work on the backend codes overhaul and reformations. If you are sensitive and a poke noser like me, you would realize that the .php extension on Facebook just changed recently.
It is ostensible to think, you would be extremely smart as Bill Gate or propel yourself into the atmosphere of success Bill Gate is enjoying.
In Universities, they do not teach you other than prepare you for the market, but if you are smart with the courses, you can easily go extra way by practicing using the lab works as a precept to guide your coding practices and stylishly transform yourself into a guru. But not all graduates can be good with programming. That is why we have graduate jobs littering everywhere in the UK, USA and the likes. Even Nigeria, we have Venture Gardens, ConceptNova, TeamApts, Accenture, Neptune Software, Appzone, iPNX recruiting graduates now and then. You just need to submit unsolicited CVs sometimes.
Now if you refuse to proceed to college because of your belief that Computer Science is a waste of time.
1) You jeopardize your career future. No matter how good you are, no will recruit you.
2) You can only be relevant if you launch an excellent start up through your so called 'Udemy Programming Skills' and this is a mere mirage you need to be smarter than all the IT entrepreneurs we have now to present an innovative approach to a gap.
Hence, I would implore you to go to college, GET AT LEAST 2.1. You can get a job with 2.2 or 3 but trust me your promotion in the future would be faced with discrimination of grades. And you would not be able to query the HR for a promotion else you play along.
I have seen better programmers with 3rd class and struggling now and I have never seen a good programmer with 2.1 living big.
My dear, you need to be more oriented so your mode of thinking about Computer Science would gravitate towards an aspect best fit to your abilities.
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|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Teckiway(m): 3:44am On Dec 31, 2018|
Wow nice do you know that there is an Edx Affiliate Program
|Re: Why Waste 4 Years On Computer Science In University? by Possessedchild: 2:29pm On Dec 31, 2018|
And do you know that affiliate programs are no programs. It is a buy out like diploma. Hence it is not substituted for Bachelors anywhere in the universe.
Be a good student, go to university and TRY your best.
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