Please be careful how you explain the scripture, Ask the holy spirit to interpret this to you ok?

bookface:


First, the fact that the Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of. This passage simply says that an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven, in the same manner that the bailiff's voice "All rise!" accompanies the judge's entrance into the courtroom.

Second, Hebrews 1:5 says, "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" . The answer to the question is, of course, "none."

Thus, if God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son. The fact that Michael is an archangel does not change anything, as he is still an angel by nature. An archangel is simply a "higher order" of angel, but an angel nonetheless; "arch-" simply means "ruling" or "high ranking."


Jehovah witnesses should really stop spreading filth!


Lucifer himself was an arch angel, so was Gabriel. The bible says of Lucifer:

Ezekiel 28:13
"You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: the sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created."

Isaiah 14 reveals the fall of Lucifer from the heights of heaven, which resulted in his status as the creature that he is today:

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning...For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'"


God creates angels, then he creates higher angels, but they all worship at the feet of Christ!

When God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, ‘Let all God's angels worship Him.’ In speaking of the angels He says, ‘He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.’ But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’”

The hierarchy of heavenly beings is made clear in this passage—angels worship Jesus who, as God, is alone worthy of worship. No angel is ever worshiped in Scripture; therefore, Jesus cannot be Michael or any other angel. The angels are called sons of God (Genesis 6:2-4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), but Jesus is THE Son of God (Hebrews 1:8; Matthew 4:3-6).

Did you read what was posted at all?

mscheeeeeeew!

Debroslink:
Exodus 15:3 the Lord is a man of war. The Lord is His name. His name is not angel Michael.
Stop this false teaching.

Who threw satan out of heaven?
If satan was the second in rank after God, both in power, then how come Michael was able to defeat him?
It takes only God to defeat satan. So, when it comes to battle time with satan, He assumes the position of Michael. You need God's revelation to inderstand the bible, not by reasoning.
In revelation, Michael shall also rise to defeat satan again.

gradeA: He is indeed a JW.

His excellency Mr president, please stop quoting scriptures out of context.
The scriptures you used as evidence dont even add up... I doubt if you even believe this crap yourself,
if you do,
then............

I would simply blame it on the 1st lady (abeg i no call psn name oo)

lmao!

Av heard JW THAUGHT it on many occasions, but it's an insult on our Lord. Heb 1:6-8 says " And again when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, and let all the angels of God worshiped him.[/quote]

GBAGAUUUUUUN!

Leon90:

Who threw satan out of heaven?
If satan was the second in rank after God, both in power, then how come Michael was able to defeat him?
It takes only God to defeat satan. So, when it comes to battle time with satan, He assumes the position of Michael. You need God's revelation to inderstand the bible, not by reasoning.
In revelation, Michael shall also rise to defeat satan again.

Please and Please God is too big to fight Satan, please and please. Don't limit God abeg, How do you expect the ALMIGHTY to come so low as to fighting satan, he has Angels to do that, and as for satan he lost his authority the moment he rebelled against God. Stay blessed

ProfChris10:
Please and Please God is too big to fight Satan, please and please. Don't limit God abeg, How do you expect the ALMIGHTY to come so low as to fighting satan, he has Angels to do that, and as for satan he lost his authority the moment he rebelled against God. Stay blessed

Can I ask u a question? Where did sin come from? To answer that question, sin came from satan. So, if u say God is too big to fight satan, then why is he fighting sin that came from satan?
If u believe He used another angel (Michael) to defeat satan, then why did He have to come down in flesh to defeat sin? Why did He not send a lesser angel?
It takes only God to defeat satan.
The mystery of God is so great that it can never be fathomed. He only reveals His mystery to those that are born of His Spirit.
Mind u, I am not a jehovah witness.

Who Is Michael the Archangel?
THE spirit creature called Michael is not
mentioned often in the Bible. However,
when he is referred to, he is in action.
In the book of Daniel, Michael is
battling wicked angels; in the letter of
Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in
Revelation, he is waging war with the
Devil and his demons. By defending
Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s
enemies, Michael lives up to the
meaning of his name—“Who Is Like
God?” But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by
more than one name. For example, the
patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel,
and the apostle Peter, as Simon.
( Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2)
Likewise, the Bible indicates that
Michael is another name for Jesus
Christ, before and after his life on earth.
Let us consider Scriptural reasons for
drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God’s Word refers to
Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This
term means “chief angel.” Notice that
Michael is called the archangel. This
suggests that there is only one such
angel. In fact, the term “archangel”
occurs in the Bible only in the singular,
never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is
linked with the office of archangel.
Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus
Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states:
“The Lord himself will descend from
heaven with a commanding call, with
an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of
Jesus is described as being that of an
archangel. This scripture therefore
suggests that Jesus himself is the
archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that
“Michael and his angels battled with
the dragon . . . and its
angels.” ( Revelation 12:7) Thus,
Michael is the Leader of an army of
faithful angels. Revelation also
describes Jesus as the Leader of an
army of faithful angels. ( Revelation
19:14-16) And the apostle Paul
specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus”
and “his powerful angels.” ( 2
Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks
of both Michael and “his angels” and
Jesus and “his angels.” ( Matthew
13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22)
Since God’s Word nowhere indicates
that there are two armies of faithful
angels in heaven—one headed by
Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is
logical to conclude that Michael is none
other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly
role.*
[Footnote]
More information showing that the
name Michael applies to God’s Son is
found in Volume 2, pages 393-4, of
Insight on the Scriptures
, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I love this. God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, but how come someone comparing Jesus with Angel?

obadiah777: you do err. i have provided several precepts upon precepts to back it up. but see you have spiritual astigmatism coupled with the spirit of scoffing to see the reality placed in front of you. just stiff necked and rebellious for nothing smdh

I wonder the Precepts you mean,cuz all i see Is Junks and bunch of Pathetic scriptural twists!

ProfChris10:
Please and Please God is too big to fight Satan, please and please. Don't limit God abeg, How do you expect the ALMIGHTY to come so low as to fighting satan, he has Angels to do that, and as for satan he lost his authority the moment he rebelled against God. Stay blessed

Michael is just like a manifestation or an office that God can reduce Himself to wheneve there is battle to be fought.
God gave power to satan more than any other angel. No angel could have defeated him.
Go through the bible, d only situation Michael ever comes on the scene is for battle. God bless u.

@OP. please what is the main idea of comparing Jesus with Angel, and the scripture warned us of worshipping of Angels, and If you say Jesus is an Angel, logically you're saying Jesus should not be worshipped abi? When the scripture clearly states that Jesus is the way, the truth and life. no man cometh unto the father except through him. Have you not read in the scripture that it pleases the father that all fullness should dwell in his son?

Hmmm... Churchies and their warped one-way-traffic minds.

Inasmuch as I do not buy his line of reasoning, there's a bit of sense in the conclusion.

How come it's not an insult that Jesus became human, but it becomes an insult to call him an angel?
We all know that the lowest angel is greater than man.

Angel simply means messenger (spirit creature of course), that is why the devil can have his own angels (messengers) too. Jesus is referred to, more than once in the Bible, as a messenger and servant of his father and God (read your Bible before you argue this).

If it doesn't make sense to call Jesus an angel even when the Bible calls him a messenger, how come it makes perfect sense to people that Jesus is equal to his father whom he called his God?

At times when I see atheists bashing people here, I understand why.

What kind of stupid fucking question is this. You clearly do not understand the bible

django1: Obadiah have the most articulate and persuasive argument here.

and ur point is?

SMH........at the END, some TIME z we just have to over look some silly people posting silly THINGS

philfearon:
and ur point is?

Most of you people on the opposing view of this matter are mostly been emotional and abusive, its not helping your case.


Note: a popular opinion is NOT necessarily the correct one.

Pray for God holy spirit before you read the bible Arc angel or Michael refer to jesus christ

This is the first silly questn am s

obadiah777: you do err. worshipping christ simply means studying your bible. christ is the bible. dont worship christ the man. worship Christ the word >>>>

john 1 vs 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. <<< christ is the bible.

Pathetic Obadiah777...Look at what u quoted? See how you are contradicting Yourself! That passage didnt say "and the word was an Angel,And the Angel turned God........."
John 1vs1-5,18:
1)In the Begining was the Word,and the word was with God,and the Word was God.
2)from the Very Begining,the word was with God.
3)Through him God made all things,not one thing in all creation was made without him.
4)The word was the source of life,and this life brought light to humanity.
5)The light shines in the darkness,and the darkness has never put it out...
..
Now,how does that transcribe to Michael being Christ? Is it that u are blind or you didnt see it written that "the word was God"?
V18):noone has ever seen God.The only Son,who is the same as God,and is at the fathers side,he has made Him Known......
Dude,unless u are blind and silly,John in his writing Called Jesus Christ God.......And God cant be an angel,and never was it written that God created all things through an Angel....Dude,open ur eyez...JW IS DECIEVING YOU.

This is the first silly topic am seeing....


Spit on the thread..

@ OP Am sure sooner YOU WUD CLAIM THAT ABRAHAM IS ALSO ONE OF THE ANGEL... Mtcheew.. Gibberish..

These are signs! Jesus is coming soon! False prophets and messiahs will spring up- theories that seem almost logical will spring up. FALSEHOOD SHALL BE SPREAD UNDER THE GUISE OF LOGICAL REASONING. Repent!!!

[quote author=Leon90]

Can I ask u a question? Where did sin come from?
Noone knows...How did you think Satan Lost his grace?
And Secondly,you are Phool if u dont believe that God can end Satan with just a Speech....Its just that God is Merciful,and likes to Follow things according to how He has set it.....Why do you Think that The book of "ECCLESIASTES" exist?
Bro,there is time for everything....

django1:

Most of you people on the opposing view of this matter are mostly been emotional and abusive, its not helping your case.


Note: a popular opinion is NOT necessarily the correct one.

So,whats ur own personal opinion?

flying dutchman: These are signs! Jesus is coming soon! False prophets and messiahs will spring up- theories that seem almost logical will spring up. FALSEHOOD SHALL BE SPREAD UNDER THE GUISE OF LOGICAL REASONING. Repent!!!

thats the word..


Seriously seeing a topic like dis been raised by some1 who claim to be a christian shows exactly what the bible tells us in matt 24:24.. I smh 4 the OP

[quote author=philfearon][/quote]

please read my post thoroughly before u start spilling insults on urself. Ok?

Leon90:

please read my post thoroughly before u start spilling insults on urself. Ok?

Is your view and that of Obadiah777 not the same?

Leon90:

Can I ask u a question? Where did sin come from? To answer that question, sin came from satan. So, if u say God is too big to fight satan, then why is he fighting sin that came from satan?
If u believe He used another angel (Michael) to defeat satan, then why did He have to come down in flesh to defeat sin? Why did He not send a lesser angel?
It takes only God to defeat satan.
The mystery of God is so great that it can never be fathomed. He only reveals His mystery to those that are born of His Spirit.
Mind u, I am not a jehovah witness.

Are you a Christian at all? Sin is the act of disobeying God. Humans and Angels have free will. God in is infinite wisdom gave us these. Now with free will, we can decide to obey or disobey God. For either of these two choices, there are consequences. God does not fight sin, he gives us the grace to do so, but the choice whether to fight it or not is ultimately ours.

At the fall of man, God decided that every human being has to justify the covenant made between man and God at the dawn of creation before he or she can enjoy the fruits of everlasting bliss which Adam and Eve experienced before they messed up. Christianity is not all about calling yourself Christians you know.

bookface:
First, the fact that the Lord Jesus descends "with an archangel's voice" does not automatically mean that it is his own voice spoken of. This passage simply says that an archangel's voice will accompany the Lord's descent from heaven, in the same manner that the bailiff's voice "All rise!" accompanies the judge's entrance into the courtroom.

a) but I didnt see the bolded in that verse.

b) How can Jesus use the voice of another person?

c) let us assume that he used another angel's voice. think about this: Jesus was giving the authority above any other authority in heaven, except God's, he used his power while on earth to order Lazarus who finally came out from the grave. If we say that Jesus used another angel's voice to command people to rise from the dead, are we not in effect stating that that angel's voice has greater power than that of Jesus, if not, why not use his own voice, why use another's? is that logical? was it not Jesus whose voice will raise the dead in the future? john 5:28, 29.

Second, Hebrews 1:5 says, "For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father'?" . The answer to the question is, of course, "none."

Thus, if God never called an angel his Son, then Michael--who is an angel--cannot be the Son. The fact that Michael is an archangel does not change anything, as he is still an angel by nature. An archangel is simply a "higher order" of angel, but an angel nonetheless; "arch-" simply means "ruling" or "high ranking."

a) yes to no angel did he say that to, however, the statement excludes Jesus, not so?

b) the word angel simply means messenger. when the word describes spirit creatures, it is called angel, but when it is for humans, it is called messenger. of course Jesus is a servant of God, but he is the chief amongst them. the title archangel means 'chief of the angels'.

c) compare 2thes. 1:7 and Rev. 12:7, you will see that both Michael and Jesus is said to have angels.

Jehovah witnesses should really stop spreading filth!

well, until you prove it to be filth.

Lucifer himself was an arch angel, so was Gabriel. The bible says of Lucifer:

Ezekiel 28:13
"You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: the sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created."

Isaiah 14 reveals the fall of Lucifer from the heights of heaven, which resulted in his status as the creature that he is today:

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning...For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'"

a) please prove to me that satan was an archangel because the word archangel occurs in singular not plural.

b) the statement you quoted at Isaiah was not referring to satan, but the king of babylon, and again it was not saying that that king is lucifer but the word "lucifer" was among the proverbial (or taunting) sayings God told the israelites to utter.

Isa 14:4, 16
4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:

"How the oppressor has ceased,
The golden city ceased!

"Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
'Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,

the statement is a proverb that the jews will say after their release to the king of babylon. verse 16 shows that the statement is to a man. see bolded.

God creates angels, then he creates higher angels, but they all worship at the feet of Christ!

When God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, ‘Let all God's angels worship Him.’ In speaking of the angels He says, ‘He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.’ But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’”

The hierarchy of heavenly beings is made clear in this passage—angels worship Jesus who, as God, is alone worthy of worship. No angel is ever worshiped in Scripture; therefore, Jesus cannot be Michael or any other angel. The angels are called sons of God (Genesis 6:2-4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), but Jesus is THE Son of God (Hebrews 1:8; Matthew 4:3-6).

I see your logic. granted the angels are not worshipped, however, even Jesus is not worshipped too. why?

Jesus himself stated that worship is for his father alone.

Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

Jesus even called God, "my God". so Jesus not only serve God, but he is inferior to God almighty. 1cor. 15:28.

secondly, your quotation at Heb 1:6 does not contradict this. why? the greek word translated ''worship" can also be translated ''do obeisance''. it is because of that statement of Jesus at luke 4:8 and other prove that only God receives worship that some translators reserves the word ''worship'' for God alone in translating that greek word.