Mellin: if u come back to earth to serve ur punishment when ur spirit returns to God..which spirit will now accompany u to earth in order to serve ur punishment?and when during ur punishment u die.. the same spirit u possessed will return to God again and back to earth to suffer again? pls clear me

exactly . God knows the purnishment He will give to you, death is also a purnishment, but you have to know everything happens on Earth. You are saved in death, once saved, you are saved forever and ever until the day Christ will come... God deals with the Spirit, your body is just the house of your spirit. You must pay for any sin you commit. All on Earth. Earth is the place of judgment... If you keep sinning, when you die, you will come back to earth for your punishment.

amara.lizzy%40y:
y shld i mail or call u, notin lyk purgatory u can't convience or confuse me.

Why then did you open the thread when you knew before hand that all our words would fall on deaf ears?

Mazi_Omenuko:



Workers of iniquity!

se.x worker the heathen himself Mazi

Mazi_Omenuko:



Workers of iniquity!

se.x worker the heathen himself Mazi

italo:

In the world to come NEVER means another generation.

You see that you cannot handle truth.

In the world to come is surely the life after death.

Sins can neither be forgiven in heaven nor hell.

Only in purgatory!

What about 1 Cor 3:15?

Where is it talking about? Another generation?

I am yet to see how 1cor. 3:15 proves purgatory?

When you rejected her explanation of the world to come, you ve not shown how purgatory came in there.

mavister: One thing i have discovered is that some of this religious fanatics peddling this fallacy on the existence of purgatory know the truth is far fetched from what they are saying. The basis here is that they cant even muster the courage to walk up to their priests for proof on the existence of purgatory and moreso, they have been born in the catholic church and as such, for all their lives have been fed with such dish that anything else from that is lies even when they see it to be the truth. One may ask me why am i bothering my self posting all this? Is he in a bid to win them over to his side? No not at all..like a friend said..serve your God ..let me serve mine.. Am doing all this cause there are many who dont even know where they stand. They dont know what to believe.and if left to this false prophets..they will be misled... Please every one... Lets be wise.. I pray the holy spirit opens the eyes of any one who is still confused..amen
shalom

Where is 1Cor3:15 talking about?

Kei144:

Ro. 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Ro. 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

[/i]It is only "by the Spirit" that a person could free himself/herself from sin. The reason why followers of Christ remain imperfect is that they do not now how to free themselves from sin "by the Spirit". Jesus apparently does that for them in Paradise, thereby giving them full redemption.
[i]
1Pe. 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
1Pe. 3:19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
1Pe. 3:20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,


After Jesus Christ died on the cross, He went and preached to spirits in prison through the Spirit; these were spirits of those who died during Noah's flood. What is this prison? Is it Paradise or Hades? Does Jesus still minister to spirits of dead people after His resurrection?

There are many spiritual things we do not yet understand.

The spirit of God is here with us, for all who believe and are baptized, this is our justification. We however need to work out our salvation in fear and trembling(Phil 2:12), dying daily to our flesh 1cor 15:31, Col 1:24. We cannot do any of these without the spirit of God, not even to call Abba, father, could we. His grace however is enough for for us, as we rise after each fall, in the manner of the way of the cross.

There have been saintly theologians like Augustine, Aquinas, etc, the church has formed a teaching on this. note that Purgatory is not so much a place, as it is a state of being. The question is, Is there really a state one can be after death, where he does not deserve hell, but is not perfect for heaven?

Christ instituted a teaching church, He continues to guide His church to truth. The gates of hell will not prevail against her, she teaches;I believe, what else is there to understand, she is the pillar and foundation of truth (1Tim 3:15).

JMAN05:

I am yet to see how 1cor. 3:15 proves purgatory?

When you rejected her explanation of the world to come, you ve not shown how purgatory came in there.

1Cor3:15 shows that there is a state/place after judgement where some people suffer loss and are saved as "through fire."

True or false?

Matt 12:32 clearly implies that some sins will be forgiven in the world to come.

True or false.

Pls giv a clear honest answer this time, not your usual dubious merry-go-rounds.

Sal C: You seem not to even understand what purgatory is all about. It is not meant for those who willingly continue to live perpetually in sin but for those who are sincerely making effort to live holy, but for the sake of human weaknesses; are guilty of venial sin.

If truth must be told, your faith alone gospel compel people to live habitually in sin more compared to the teachings of purgatory.

Sir, I think you dont understand. Jesus death made people to be declared righteous not according to works but by grace/undeserved kindness.

God made the saints righteous though they are sinners. their sins were blotted out. so God do not view them as sinners again cos of Christ's blood. No need for minor sin removal. Even while on earth they are viewed as adopted sons and saints. the sainthood is not gotten after they die.

ajayikayod:

In interpreting d scriptures, its always important to read thru d chapther to hav a clear understanding of wat is written, if not we will import our own thought into it.

Firstly, evry believer cant contend d fact dt the word "purgatory" doesnt occur as a word in d scriptures. definately we cant conclude from d non existence of such event in d bible just becos d word doesnt exist. But its a good place to start.

Going by d scriptures u pointed (1Cor 3:15), I will love if we can analyse d tot & stand of d writer by looking at d whole chapter together then we can reach a conclusion.

Lets analyse verse 5 - 9 first then we can move from thr.

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

I really want to believe u kno dt ds refered to d labor of Paul and Apollos in ministries i.e. preaching & teaching. (Paul said i planted, Apollos watered). Ds showed shared responsibilities not individual righteous actions but service in ministries.

8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.

Verse 8 showed dt thr is a reward for individual (his own labor). Wat labor? D planting/watering not personal sin or actions but service in ministries (vs 5: "but ministers through whom you believed". Verse 9: fellow workers.

CONCLUSION ON VERSE 5-9

1. Paul/ Apollos labor is related to thr sins but service & ministering for God to give increase
2. Ds labor will be rewards according to d service (planting/watering God's building whic ar d ppl).

Let me allow u to express ur side on d scriptures above then we can move to d next verses.

I think you should finish your exposé. If I start to respond now, we may never even get to the crux of the matter.

JMAN05:

Sir, I think you dont understand. Jesus death made people to be declared righteous not according to works but by grace/undeserved kindness.

God made the saints righteous though they are sinners. their sins were blotted out. so God do not view them as sinners again cos of Christ's blood. No need for minor sin removal. Even while on earth they are viewed as adopted sons and saints. the sainthood is not gotten after they die.

Are you saying believers never commit sin...or that they do but God overlooks the sins?

[quote
author=italo]

Lol...

My dear friend, every devout Catholic strives for heaven, not purgatory.

Every devout Catholic strives to do God's will for love of God, not for
what we can gain (heaven, material things, spiritual favours etc) or
lose (hell, spiritual losses, material losses etc).

Nobody has ever being taught that it's okay to relax and go to
purgatory.

However, we must preach what we know. Purgatory exists and we must say
it.[/quote]if u believe purgatory exist dat means ur sittin on a long thing.

JMAN05:

Sir, I think you dont understand. Jesus death made people to be declared righteous not according to works but by grace/undeserved kindness.

God made the saints righteous though they are sinners. their sins were blotted out. so God do not view them as sinners again cos of Christ's blood. No need for minor sin removal. Even while on earth they are viewed as adopted sons and saints. the sainthood is not gotten after they die.

If God made the saints righteous though they were sinners, yet today there are sinners who will not make it to heaven because they were not made righteous like the saints, yet all of them were sinners who don't need the work to be justified, are you implying that God is now partial.

amara.lizzy%40y:
if u believe purgatory exist dat means ur sittin on a long thing.

You are not making any sensible points; you're just going about spewing emotional knee-jerk reactions.

You already decided that nothing can convince you. Would you then allow us talk to people who seek truth with an open mind, thank you.

woky: Amara jst open thead run.

I tire for that gal

my dear i stil dy, do u expect me to chat 4 midnight moreova i hav said my view

Purgatory is described as prison in 1 Pet 3:19-21
1 Peter 3:19-21

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[a] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Here souls of those who rejected noah's message were kept in prison (purgatory) till Jesus rose from the dead and came to liberate them

italo:

At least, you didnt know that. It doesn't make the sin more grevious.

What if he leaves immediately and then the decking of our your sitting room collapses exactly where he would have been sitting.

Would that make your lie a good thing.

People even die from the effects of other people's intention to do good. Would it turn the good to sin?

The important thing is the intent, not effect.

God is not inconsiderate like you.

bro.lets go back in time a little..

I felt like laughing on top of my voice when I read a portion of the comments and defenses of some devout catholics in a book which follows:
Reply:
Purgatory is biblical. It comes from latin; Purgationem Peccatorum.
Heb 1:3 “qui cum sit splendor gloriae et figura substantiae eius portansque omnia verbo virtutis suae PURGATIONEM PECCATORUM faciens sedit ad dexteram Maiestatis in excelsis”
Translation:
Heb 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself PURGED OUR SINS, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
By merely looking at the verse and using 5% of the 100% capacity of our brains to discern and understand things, you can easily notice that the person who posted his defense in favor of the Catholic Church’s doctrine of purgatory is only a confused fellow.

Does the Latin term“purgationem peccatorum”mean purgatory? Translated into English, it is“purged our sins,”not purgatory! And who purged our sins? According to the verse, “He” referring to Christ, purged our sins. Aren’t you implying now, whoever you are, that Christ is purgatory? Oh, come on!
And notice the verse that says, after purging our sins “He sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.” Will that imply now that purgatory is in the throne of God? Come on! Catholic doctrine defines purgatory as a place between heaven and hell so it cannot be sitting in the throne of God.
Take note that it is the Council of Trent of the Catholic Church, not the Bible, that asserted the doctrine of purgatory!
The greatest of the Malayan race, Dr. Jose Protacio Rizal, in his famous book, Noli Me Tangere, said categorically after reading the whole Bible that there is no purgatory in the Bible! Mind you, Dr. Rizal speaks more than 22 languages. He surely is knowledgeable of Latin and Spanish. And he said purgatory is not in the Bible as Rizal is neither inane nor insane.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory is not founded on Biblical teachings. The alleged mention of praying for the dead in the book of Maccabeus, (this book is not part of the Bible until the Catholic Church included it in 1546) does not in any manner imply that there is a purgatory!
Praying for the dead was never a part of the Christian doctrine! The Lord Jesus Christ, or anyone of His apostles, never taught any idea of it!
I CORINTHIANS 4:6 (REVISED STANDARD VERSION)
I have applied all this to myself and Apol’los for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
The word purgatory cannot be found in the writings of the apostles nor have the slightest idea of it!
If Christians are to be purged from their sins, it has to be in this life and not in the hereafter. It is through the atoning power of the death of Christ that we are purged from our sins, not in purgatory.
HEBREWS 10:10-12
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
ISAIAH 53:3-5
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
“and with his stripes we are healed”not by purgatory!
I CORINTHIANS 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
The sufferings of Christ and the offering of His body is sufficient to purge our sins!

@ mavister,

The question I asked you was: where is 1Cor3:15 talking of?

italo:

Are you saying believers never commit sin...or that they do but God overlooks the sins?

He wipes it off as far as they dont make practice of it.

[quote
author=Sal C]Your fellow protestant Kingk disagree with this, when you
guys agree on whether the sin not unto death is the one confessed and
forsaken or not, come back and tell us.

How will one be arguing with people who don't even know their
stand.[/quote] if u dn't knw ur stand i knws mine. sin which are nt unto death are d ones which u hav confess to God n has been 4given stp going roundabt.

mavister: bro.lets go back in time a little..

I felt like laughing on top of my voice when I read a portion of the comments and defenses of some devout catholics in a book which follows:
Reply:
Purgatory is biblical. It comes from latin; Purgationem Peccatorum.
Heb 1:3 “qui cum sit splendor gloriae et figura substantiae eius portansque omnia verbo virtutis suae PURGATIONEM PECCATORUM faciens sedit ad dexteram Maiestatis in excelsis”
Translation:
Heb 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself PURGED OUR SINS, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
By merely looking at the verse and using 5% of the 100% capacity of our brains to discern and understand things, you can easily notice that the person who posted his defense in favor of the Catholic Church’s doctrine of purgatory is only a confused fellow.

Does the Latin term“purgationem peccatorum”mean purgatory? Translated into English, it is“purged our sins,”not purgatory! And who purged our sins? According to the verse, “He” referring to Christ, purged our sins. Aren’t you implying now, whoever you are, that Christ is purgatory? Oh, come on!
And notice the verse that says, after purging our sins “He sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.” Will that imply now that purgatory is in the throne of God? Come on! Catholic doctrine defines purgatory as a place between heaven and hell so it cannot be sitting in the throne of God.
Take note that it is the Council of Trent of the Catholic Church, not the Bible, that asserted the doctrine of purgatory!
The greatest of the Malayan race, Dr. Jose Protacio Rizal, in his famous book, Noli Me Tangere, said categorically after reading the whole Bible that there is no purgatory in the Bible! Mind you, Dr. Rizal speaks more than 22 languages. He surely is knowledgeable of Latin and Spanish. And he said purgatory is not in the Bible as Rizal is neither inane nor insane.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory is not founded on Biblical teachings. The alleged mention of praying for the dead in the book of Maccabeus, (this book is not part of the Bible until the Catholic Church included it in 1546) does not in any manner imply that there is a purgatory!
Praying for the dead was never a part of the Christian doctrine! The Lord Jesus Christ, or anyone of His apostles, never taught any idea of it!
I CORINTHIANS 4:6 (REVISED STANDARD VERSION)
I have applied all this to myself and Apol’los for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
The word purgatory cannot be found in the writings of the apostles nor have the slightest idea of it!
If Christians are to be purged from their sins, it has to be in this life and not in the hereafter. It is through the atoning power of the death of Christ that we are purged from our sins, not in purgatory.
HEBREWS 10:10-12
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
ISAIAH 53:3-5
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
“and with his stripes we are healed”not by purgatory!
I CORINTHIANS 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
The sufferings of Christ and the offering of His body is sufficient to purge our sins!

i can also argue in the same vain that tthe bible is not biblical rather was a creation of the catholic church at thesynod of hippo in 393CE and Councils of carthage in 397 and 419 CE

@ mavister: bro u do know that if u believe in d trinity den u shud bow ur head in shame for all dis poo u said abt purgatory not used in d sense of d word in d bible because no where in the bible will u find d word trinity.

JMAN05:

He wipes it off as far as they dont make practice of it.

So if believers "make practise" of sin, he wont wipe it off?

When you answer that, please tell us what you mean by "make practise of it"



Also what does the Bible mean when it tells believers that there are "sins that lead to death?"

Did it mean sins that believers 'made practise of?'

italo: @ mavister,

The question I asked you was: where is 1Cor3:15 talking of?

1 Corinthians 3:15, another passage you have cited in support of Purgatory, is about works being evaluated. Paul uses the imagery of fire, but the works are burned, not the person. Since Paul writes that even a person without any good works can be saved (1 Corinthians 3:15), as long as he's resting on the foundation of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11), the passage actually contradicts Catholic teaching about salvation and works rather than supporting your Catholic teaching about Purgatory.
The truth is that there is no Purgatory. Even when the apostle Paul knew he was imperfect (Philippians 3:12), he knew he would go to be with the Lord when he died (Philippians 1:21-23). We read in scripture:
"These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple" - Revelation 7:14-15
People go to Heaven because of what Christ has done for them, not because of what they've done for Christ. The ungodly person who believes in Christ while not working (Romans 4:5-6) is assured of avoiding God's wrath (Romans 5:9-10) as a free gift of God's grace (Romans 6:23). God invites anybody who thirsts to...
"take the water of life without cost" - Revelation 22:17

amara.lizzy%40y:
if u dn't knw ur stand i knws mine. sin which are nt unto death are d ones which u hav confess to God n has been 4given stp going roundabt.

Sometimes I use to imagine if you read posts upside down. Though you are the op of this thread, you are yet to disprove or prove anything , just being tossed about and very inconsistent. The only one you try to prove, your fellow protestant disagreed with it and you turn around to vent your annoyance on me. Lol you guys should reach a consensus and get back to us.

italo:

You are not making any sensible points; you're just going about spewing emotional knee-jerk reactions.

You already decided that nothing can convince you. Would you then allow us talk to people who seek truth with an open mind, thank you.

Italo, As much as I really really admire your zeal, I cannot help but think its getting too much, Look we live in an age where people are already wired to their beliefs, there really nothing you can do to convince them and vice versa, so just leave them to find the truth themselves, The catholic church is the ark of salvation for all, no doubt about that, but people just have to find that out themselves.. And to the #OP# Purgatory has got to exist, cos if it doesn't ehn, we're all going to hell, I can't say where it is in the bible( don't like reading it, I'm too foolish to understand), but jesus said #Nothing defiled shall enter heaven#, those who die in venial sin go there so that they can suffer for their sins.. I don't quote the bible to people, But its the truth..It might be had for you to believe..but you've got to believe it, To deny it is to deny yourself of heaven, cos no one is a saint, we are all sinners Including me, It is just to make heaven easier to get to..May(TO THOSE WHO WANNA QUOTE ME, PLEASE DON'T DRAW COMPARISONS, DO ANYTHING BUT DON'T COMPARE ME TO ANYONE AND UMMM ITALO SERIOUSLY I REALLY REALLY REALLY ADMIRE YOU OOO YOU JUST CAN'T IMAGINE#,May our Lord Jesus be with us, #Proudly Catholic

[quote
author=stankezzy]appostle john dat wrote revilation talked about
heaven.he mentioned GOD,JESUS,24ELDERS,THE LIVING CREATURES,ANGELS,ND
SAINTS.he did not mention or see mary interceeding any where.so u people
want to tell us dt mary is included in d devine order.wen jesus,his
broders nd parents went to feast,while dey were returning Jesus did nt
return with dem so he was told dt his mother nd brothers were looking
for him,what did he answer? that his mother nd brothers are these men
with him dt listens to him.does it mean dt they were nt listenning to
him?how many times were his brothers nd sisters mentioned in d bibble!
do u know dt before d feast dt ,d brothers told him dt somebody dt
performs dis type of tin u are performing is suppose to go to where
people will be seeing him perform .so dey took him as a performer/an
entertainer.if his broders nd sisters were important to salvation dey
would have been mentioned many times.the bibble did nt mention where his
brodas nd parents repented,where they prayed or where they were prayed
for.do u know dt dere is no automatic qualificatin in heaven,be u his
parents or brodas dt it is according to ones work.[/quote]tel dat to catholic pple in d forum n nt me.

amara.lizzy%40y:
if u dn't knw ur stand i knws mine. sin which are nt unto death are d ones which u hav confess to God n has been 4given stp going roundabt.

my dear, dont you know how to quote a user? U are doing badly. Please try to quote correctly so we can understand you. You are just saying No, No purgatory, but you havnt proved to us why purgatory doesnt exist. Quote the bible miss.

alajor: Correct me if I'm wrong abeg...but since I've been reading the bible I've never come across these words...purgatory, chaplet. Don't know where those pple got these words from. Do you? Hell I know, Heaven I know, purgatory,I don't.

i have been reading the bible and i have never saw the word bible or trinity there.
I believe the same place they got the word bible from, is where they got purgatory from.
Have a nice day.

Fasholu: Italo, As much as I really really admire your zeal, I cannot help but think its getting too much, Look we live in an age where people are already wired to their beliefs, there really nothing you can do to convince them and vice versa, so just leave them to find the truth themselves, The catholic church is the ark of salvation for all, no doubt about that, but people just have to find that out themselves.. And to the #OP# Purgatory has got to exist, cos if it doesn't ehn, we're all going to hell, I can't say where it is in the bible( don't like reading it, I'm too foolish to understand), but jesus said #Nothing defiled shall enter heaven#, those who die in venial sin go there so that they can suffer for their sins.. I don't quote the bible to people, But its the truth..It might be had for you to believe..but you've got to believe it, To deny it is to deny yourself of heaven, cos no one is a saint, we are all sinners Including me, It is just to make heaven easier to get to..May(TO THOSE WHO WANNA QUOTE ME, PLEASE DON'T DRAW COMPARISONS, DO ANYTHING BUT DON'T COMPARE ME TO ANYONE AND UMMM ITALO SERIOUSLY I REALLY REALLY REALLY ADMIRE YOU OOO YOU JUST CAN'T IMAGINE#,May our Lord Jesus be with us, #Proudly Catholic

I see!!!!! Your delusion is complex. You must be high on some crack mehn.

Kei144:

Ro. 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Ro. 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

[/i]It is only "by the Spirit" that a person could free himself/herself from sin. The reason why followers of Christ remain imperfect is that they do not now how to free themselves from sin "by the Spirit". Jesus apparently does that for them in Paradise, thereby giving them full redemption.
[i]
1Pe. 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
1Pe. 3:19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
1Pe. 3:20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,


After Jesus Christ died on the cross, He went and preached to spirits in prison through the Spirit; these were spirits of those who died during Noah's flood. What is this prison? Is it Paradise or Hades? Does Jesus still minister to spirits of dead people after His resurrection?

There are many spiritual things we do not yet understand.

beloved, i'm happy you raised this topic on who we are in christ, another day i would gladly go deeply into this topic. Suffice to ask, kei144 are you now sinless?

Why worry urself abt purgatory when u can go to heaven straight, mind u the catholic church do not ppl to there bt they believe there is a place like dat.