Syncan:


1. Seriously at the bolded? so when is the "day"?
2.Verse 17 is what?

If you understand the New Testament well, the saints/righteous shall not pass through judgement hence only wait for the reward of their services/works while on earth.

Judgement is for sinners - who fails to abide by the teachings on the word of God.

italo:

You will enter heaven with your impurity?

Ok I've waited but NONE can give an answer for a SIN not unto DEATH... Now let me give mine by the knowledge of God in me......... If someone is driving and someone's car failed brake; thereby someone's car hit and kill someone, has someone commit murder or will that someone go to HELL? The answer is NO cos it's not a SIN onto death for that someone.

kingk:

Oga... You're just assuming ok, there's nothing like purgatory........... "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matt 12:32). Meaning that sins could actually be forgiven ‘in the age to come'
From this scripture you quoted,........ Also remember that Whosoever christ has set free, he/she is free indeed. So forgiveness can only be obtain while we're alive, after death judgement

After death, no more forgiveness even in the world to come.

please some version says 'world to come' while some say 'age to come' what does age or world to come mean Sir?

I tried to read each and every submission on this thread and what I've noticed is a group who believe in a concept applying every means available to scorn, ridicule and jibe at others who dare express any deviant view(s).

So far, I find no substance in the arguments put foward in support of Purgatory and in the far-fetched biblical and sometimes uncannonical references with human traditions forcibly applied to justify unsubstantiated opinions arising from machinations to control others. Is there someone who's ready for Christian Apologetics without insult and rancour? Please join me in discussing.

Perhaps we all need to go back and study to understand:

1. The origin(s) of the concept of Purgatory since all evidence found from practices and beliefs of early Christians expressed clearly a concept of judgment immediately after death as contained in Heb 9:27 which says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Anyone may please disprove this by quoting early Christian writings, apart from Gnostic books, and Maccabees, justifying the concept of Purgatory, which should be differentiated from a concept of merely praying for the dead on their journey to the after world)
2. Gnostics' contribution to the concept of Purgatory and their link to the concept of reincarnation since the Gnostics were the first to propose the doctrine in NT times, which was supressed by the Early Church until it was sanctioned by the Council of Trent in 1031 BC and resurrected in Catholic scholars' writings between 1170 and 1200 BC. Please once again, let us refrain from confusing "Purgatory" with the simple concept of praying for the dead which is as old as 4th Century BC
3. The relationship of Purgatory to paganistic and/or unChristian religions such as Bhuddism, Taoism, Cults of Ishtar, Cult of Nimrod and Semiramis, Greek Pantheon Religions, African Traditional Religions, Islam and many others who also believe in the same concept
3. The origin of citation of Purgatory in Africa (I'm sure this was not developed by an African, and if it was an African that sited Purgatory in Europe, the whites would have employed every argument possible for a disclaimer instead of embracing it)
4. Apostle Paul in 1Corinthians 3:11-15 wrote:
"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus . Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved , yet so as by fire."
This does not justify the doctrine of Purgatory as the singular reference to "...for the day of the Lord shall declare it.." tells us that this message is relevant to the Day of Judgement of the Saints, not a place or time of recluse in a place of purging
5. What if purgatory really doesn’t exist? Then, we would have succeeded in decieving people with a hope that their little sins don't matter instead of gearing them to righteouness in preparation for Heaven.

Please, I will appreciate if any responses are devoid of the usual insults, scorn and hate which are completely against Christian ethical relationships.

kingk:

Ok I've waited but NONE can give an answer for a SIN not unto DEATH... Now let me give mine by the knowledge of God in me......... If someone is driving and someone's car failed brake; thereby someone's car hit and kill someone, has someone commit murder or will that someone go to HELL? The answer is NO cos it's not a SIN onto death for that someone.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

Lady Excellency:

If you understand the New Testament well, the saints/righteous shall not pass through judgement hence only wait for the reward of their services/works while on earth.

Judgement is for sinners - who fails to abide by the teachings on the word of God.

Something is definitely wrong here, please can all non Catholics confirm that they agree with the above, or denounce it, since i do not understand the NT well as stated above.

We Catholics believe in "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Heb 9:27. What say you?

italo:

Jesus said to the thief on Friday: "today, you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus said to Mary on Sunday: "I have not yet ascended to my Father."

Where were Jesus and the good thief between Friday and Sunday?

from all indications.it is crystal-clear that my brother is trying to digress from the main issue at hand probably to while away time..or to confuse..i wish he could give me something substantial to proove the existence of 'purgatory'...but he has failed to. Rather he is asking who did jesus deciples approach at cana and questions like that..i'd appreciate it if u can convince us here. Cause people are reading our posts. They know the truth... As a devout catholiv @italo. I expect u to quote bible verses not running away from the subjest matter..kindly read the topic of this thread..thankk you.and remain blessed

No doubt about that, they needed a supporting faith hence they asked Mary likewise many do today by running to their Pastors and Brethren in the church to pray for them.

It's all about the level of our faith.

Mind you Mary was present (Soul, Spirit and Body) with them then and now we are not left comfortless as he gave the church his Holy Spirit to support our faith.

Syncan:

But we have a clear evidence that Mary got it for them. NO?

ajayikayod:

Yes, some will.

I have never heard of "suffering loss" in heaven. Can you prove this?

ajayikayod:
No, After d death/ressurection of Christ, thr is no salvation in hell.

So we know that 1 Cor 3:15 isnt talking about hell.

But how can it be heaven when it mentions people suffering losses and being saved "as through fire?"

ajayikayod:
No, 4givess of sins only happen here on earth, to the living.

In Matt 12:32, Jesus clearly implies that there are sins that will be forgiven in the world to come. Read it. You and him dont seem to be on the same page.

Good morning and God bless you too.

Lady Excellency: No doubt about that, they needed a supporting faith hence they asked Mary likewise many do today by running to their Pastors and Brethren in the church to pray for them.

It's all about the level of our faith.

Mind you Mary was present (Soul, Spirit and Body) with them then and now we are let comfortless as he gave the church his Holy Spirit to support our faith.

Oh yeah? If it surely helps people of little faith, then why condemn it? After all the aim is same. No?

Why do you worry if Purgatory exists or not? You should first live a Godly life.Then when you die, you can then know if there is purgatory or not when you get there. Or you fit die, go confirm then you come back and tell us.

Anurugwo: Why do you worry if Purgatory exists or not? You should first live a Godly life.Then when you die, you can then know if there is purgatory or not when you get there. Or you fit die, go confirm then you come back and tell us.

lol..and it would be worse for one who believed in purgatory all his life and eventually died and discovered there is no purgatory..tel me what he/she will do. Wish italo could answer this

mavister: bro..please let me ask you this. From all indication you are a devout catholic.yeah am not negating that. And you and i know that death is no respecter of age.. Now lets keep other things aside. As u believe in purgatory, i know fully well that ur life may not be completely right with God (please am not judging) because u would justify ur self by saying, afterall there is purgatory for me. Even if i die in dis small sin..i will still make heaven later. That may be at the back of your mind bro.. But let me ask you this SUPPOSE U DIE NOW, AND WITH ALL YOUR BELIEF OF PURGATORY PURGATORY AND U DISCOVER THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE AND U END UP IN HELL, WHAT WILL YOU DO?? PLS TEL ME BRO.. OR ON THE OTHER HAND U SERVE GOD WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND END UP IN HEAVEN AND U DISCOVER NO PURGATORY, WOULD U HAVE LOST ANYTHING? ASK YOURSELF THIS.. BECAUSE IF U DISCOVER AT THE END OF TIME THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE AS PURGATORY, OTHER PEOPLE WHOM YOU HAVE MISLED , GOD WILL ASK FOR THEIR BLOOD FROM YOU.. PLS THINK ABOUT THIS .THANKS AND GOD BLESS

Lol...

My dear friend, every devout Catholic strives for heaven, not purgatory.

Every devout Catholic strives to do God's will for love of God, not for what we can gain (heaven, material things, spiritual favours etc) or lose (hell, spiritual losses, material losses etc).

Nobody has ever being taught that it's okay to relax and go to purgatory.

However, we must preach what we know. Purgatory exists and we must say it.

The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, …their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."

Syncan:

Something is definitely wrong here, please can all non Catholics confirm that they agree with the above, or denounce it, since i do not understand the NT well as stated above.

We Catholics believe in "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Heb 9:27. What say you?

So do we believe.

However the doctrines of judgement and reward will consummate our earthly works either into damnation (judgement) for sinners or commendation (reward) for the saints

italo:

At least you know that we pay for even the sins forgiven.

Purgatory is for those who haven't finished paying for their sins in this life.

Sometimes, I wonder what would happen if Bin Laden sincerely turned to Jesus seconds before he died. Would he then go straight to heaven after a lifetime of the worst crimes?

It is not mine to judge but I know one thing...our Lord is merciful but he is also just.

What about your granny who has been a Saint all her life? If I visited her and she told you from her bedroom "tell am say I no dey" seconds before her death, would she then go to hell while Osama goes to heaven? Will that sin which doesn't lead to death take her to hell or will she be purified of it in purgatory then enter heaven.

Make up your own mind.

do not decieve ur self.there is nothing u can ever think that d eg is not in the bibble.
where is appostle paul that killed many saints nd believers.....,where is the robber that was nailed with Jesus on d cross ,that Jesus promised paradise dat same day.abi Jesus go lie?
on d other hand,where is king saul that was anointed king nd professied with d prophets......,where is Eli nd his children dt used to be a high priest but leter failed God.....,
brother heaven is a serious bussines ,there is no middle place or sitting on d fence.

italo:

Lol...

My dear friend, every devout Catholic strives for heaven, not purgatory.

Every devout Catholic strives to do God's will for love of God, not for what we can gain (heaven, material things, spiritual favours etc) or lose (hell, spiritual losses, material losses etc).

Nobody has ever being taught that it's okay to relax and go to purgatory.

However, we must preach what we know. Purgatory exists and we must say it.

bro and as u preach..it sure would have an effect on u and everyone who believes you. Why do i say so? I say so cus Gods standard is very high (for our God is a consuming fire) and i put it to u that God is merciful but just.. So by preaching such. U are giving people the idea that they can go scot free even if by chance.they happen to commit ''small sins'....not funny

mavister: from all indications.it is crystal-clear that my brother is trying to digress from the main issue at hand probably to while away time..or to confuse..i wish he could give me something substantial to proove the existence of 'purgatory'...but he has failed to. Rather he is asking who did jesus deciples approach at cana and questions like that..i'd appreciate it if u can convince us here. Cause people are reading our posts. They know the truth... As a devout catholiv @italo. I expect u to quote bible verses not running away from the subjest matter..kindly read the topic of this thread..thankk you.and remain blessed

Dear friend, I dont know what is wrong with you but I know you aren't blind.

Why do you pretend as if you dont know that it was kingk who first talked about Jesus and the thief...and it was Lady excellence who brought up the Mary issue.

Then you accuse me of being the one diverting.

Why are you such a hypocrite?

Lady Excellency:

If you understand the New Testament well, the saints/righteous shall not pass through judgement hence only wait for the reward of their services/works while on earth.

Judgement is for sinners - who fails to abide by the teachings on the word of God.

Someone tell me this is just a comedian trying to make us laugh!

Because she is no longer on earth and doesn't possess the omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent powers to hear your prayer from heaven.

If Mary is here on earth assisting the weak in intercession, there wouldn't be any contradiction but now she is gone to her creator and have no knowledge of your prayers.

Syncan:

Oh yeah? If it surely helps people of little faith, then why condemn it? After all the aim is same. No?

mavister: bro and as u preach..it sure would have an effect on u and everyone who believes you. Why do i say so? I say so cus Gods standard is very high (for our God is a consuming fire) and i put it to u that God is merciful but just.. So by preaching such. U are giving people the idea that they can go scot free even if by chance.they happen to commit ''small sins'....not funny

Is Jesus giving people license to sin because he says he will forgive our sins over and over if we ask?

The truth must be preached.

Italo, you are tired man, go and take some rest for now!

Why on earth will God send His Son to come and die for our sins, only to have these same sins being forgiven half way or not fully at all.

Stop twisting the scriptures and the simple Gospel of Salvation and thereby misleading many to hell.

What is the point of Christ death on the Cross?

Rom. 6:23 (KJV) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

Let me also quote from the same book of 1st John in the Bible that you have been using as your support:

1 John 3:1-10 (KJV)

"1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (Your purgatory doctrine flies out of the window here)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

(Emphasis in red mine.)

Let the Bible speak for itself and not replace it with the doctrine of demons and traditions of men in 'holy' garbs.

Amara jst open thead run.

I tire for that gal

italo:

Dear friend, I dont know what is wrong with you but I know you aren't blind.

Why do you pretend as if you dont know that it was kingk who first talked about Jesus and the thief...and it was Lady excellence who brought up the Mary issue.

Then you accuse me of being the one diverting.

Why are you such a hypocrite?

please do not resort to insults or derogatory statements bro. Kindly use that time to give ME scriptural proof on the existence of 'purgatory'..remain blessed.

Trial and Temptation are brothers but serve diferent purposes.

So do my explanation of judgement ( for punishment) or judgement (for reward) as you choose to understand it.

italo:



Someone tell me this is just a comedian trying to make us laugh!

skydeexie: Italo, you are tired man, go and take some rest for now!

Why on earth will God send His Son to come and die for our sins, only to have these same sins being forgiven half way or not fully at all.

Stop twisting the scriptures and the simple Gospel of Salvation and thereby misleading many to hell.

What is the point of Christ death on the Cross?

Rom. 6:23 (KJV) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

Let me also quote from the same book of 1st John in the Bible that you have been using as your support:

1 John 3:1-10 (KJV)

"1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (Your purgatory doctrine flies out of the window here)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

(Emphasis in red mine.)

Let the Bible speak for itself and not replace it with the doctrine of demons and traditions of men in 'holy' garbs.

exactly bro.the guy knows all this are the home truth but he doesnt want to be seen as one who has lost a case. Quite funny

mavister: please do not resort to insults or derogatory statements bro. Kindly use that time to give ME scriptural proof on the existence of 'purgatory'..remain blessed.

"Gimme scripture," "gimme scripture. "

Oya take scripture:

I. A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5: who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.
Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.
2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.. Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.
Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.
1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.
Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.
Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.
Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

There are dozens more if you want them.

My people, let us lead this guy that open this thread to Christ before his soul got wasted.
Guy, if u knw what is good for you now is to say after me,
Lord Jesus, l accept you as my personal Lord and Saviour, l'm sorry for all my sins, have mecry on me, remove my name from destruction and rewrite my name in the book of life, so tht l will be save in you forever and ever, Thank you Lord for saving me. Hallelluyah.

After this, please go back to your bible and read it very well for you to understand that their is no pagatory any where.

Peace.

italo:

Is Jesus giving people license to sin because he says he will forgive our sins over and over if we ask?

The truth must be preached.

bro..see ehn. ( not trying to justify those who sin and ask for forgiveness always) but come to think of it.. A sinner who sins and repents and sins...though its bad.. Atleast the sinner knows he is guilty and repents only that he/she cant leave that sin.. God can come to the aid of such a person and restore him/her permanently .isnt that better than believing in a fallacy and dying only to end up in hell? U tell me

Lady Excellency:

So do we believe.

However the doctrines of judgement and reward will consummate our earthly works either into damnation (judgement) for sinners or commendation (reward) for the saints

Is this at variance with 1 cor 3:13-17? or in line with it?

italo:

"Gimme scripture," "gimme scripture. "

Oya take scripture:

I. A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5: who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.
Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.
2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.. Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.
Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.
1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.
Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.
Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.
Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

There are dozens more if you want them.

U ARE A CONFUSIONIST, U NEED MERCY OF GOD TO SAVE YOUR SOUL.

skydeexie: Italo, you are tired man, go and take some rest for now!

Why on earth will God send His Son to come and die for our sins, only to have these same sins being forgiven half way or not fully at all.

Stop twisting the scriptures and the simple Gospel of Salvation and thereby misleading many to hell.

What is the point of Christ death on the Cross?

Rom. 6:23 (KJV) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

Let me also quote from the same book of 1st John in the Bible that you have been using as your support:

1 John 3:1-10 (KJV)

"1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (Your purgatory doctrine flies out of the window here)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

(Emphasis in red mine.)

Let the Bible speak for itself and not replace it with the doctrine of demons and traditions of men in 'holy' garbs.

Purgatory doesn't stand in the way of Christ's forgiveness.

It was the Holy Spirit that said some will SUFFER LOSS and be saved as through fire.

If Christ died for our sins, why should we suffer loss and be saved as through fire?

More importantly, where will this happen?

That is the question that all non-Catholic here have failed to answer.