Joshthefirst: before Jesus, God revealed himself to those who sought him in different ways, but now he has revealed himself to us through his son. There was a duty upon God to fulfill the requirements of justice for mankinds sin. And that would mean death eternally. God ingenius solution was Jesus Christ. What I'm saying is that the salvation of God was carried out in such a way that it didn't break any more rules, and didn't infringe on humanity's freewill or Gods omnipotence.

1. Pls don't ever claim God is omnipotent if you are going to treat him as un-omnipotent. Placing a duty/order against God is a usurpation of his purported powers, I explained why God himself is beyond Justice but you wouldn't address that. And as I sai earlier god could have easily used a goat because of his power of omnipotence!!

2. Sin and Justice, how do those relate other than punishment is the justice for disobedience?!

Joshthefirst: I don't normally take you seriously again.

It seems some of you do not even know the meaning of hypocrisy.
Please go to your dictionary and find its meaning.

Josh...you have to admit, there are some Christians on this thread who have not represented our faith in a good light. I am actually surprised that many posts here, on both sides, were not hidden as warnings. I will not name names, because their words are here for all to see.

One last thing, I hope we can all take to heart;

Better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Aberham Lincoln

bolaino: lwkmd, I love nairaland so much, you guys are wonderful people, I love you guys from the bottom of my heart, my good sire, the good thing about this is I wasn't brainwashed, I willingly gave my heart to christ in the secret of my room, and I was even listening to a song by rapper the game featuring nas, "why you hate the game" to most christians that song is a worldly song, but because God is all powerful, he can make sense out of nonsense,

my brother I really wish you can see my heart and see the joy I feel for allowing God into my life, I'm no longer scared of the future cos I know what tommorrow will be. I will continue to pray for you guys, my friend, jesus really loves you.

Lovely

Kay 17:

1. Pls don't ever claim God is omnipotent if you are going to treat him as un-omnipotent. Placing a duty/order against God is a usurpation of his purported powers, I explained why God himself is beyond Justice but you wouldn't address that. And as I sai earlier god could have easily used a goat because of his power of omnipotence!!

2. Sin and Justice, how do those relate other than punishment is the justice for disobedience?!

I never placed a duty over God. He did it himself.

God is the one who set justice in motion.

Hmm. Let me put it this way.

Gods will is that justice be carried out. His will is in sync with justice itself. We know that from his word. God is bound to fulfill his word. He is bound by his own perfect integrity, which is of himself.

God is sustained by himself and his character has been chosen by himself.
God has unlimited power, boundless strength. But his decision has been to be good. His supremacy is Justice itself. He is good. He has chosen to be good and love. And he has taken it upon himself to be a just and righteous judge. Because he is God.

Why would God use a goat because of his power of omnipotence?
Why would God disrupt the order and nature of his own universe? By using a goat, that does not live forever, as the eternal substitute and saviour of mankind. That would be ridiculous. God made a goat to be a goat and a sheep to be a sheep.

Please what are you driving at?

texanomaly:

Josh...you have to admit, there are some Christians on this thread who have not represented our faith in a good light. I am actually surprised that many posts here, on both sides, were not hidden as warnings. I will not name names, because their words are here for all to see.

One last thing, I hope we can all take to heart;

Better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Aberham Lincoln

yes ma'am.
There are. I even reported to the mods but they haven't done anything about it.

rationalmind:

As usual, threats. Need I remind you, even if there is hell, I'll gladly and joyfully walk in.

*laughing sympathtically*........*smh*.......you don't get it,do you?

Joshthefirst:
He forsook his power as God and came to earth. Be died and rose again for our justification.

It seems you do not know the meaning of sacrifice yourself:

Sacrifice:
2.
a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.

Jesus forfeited heaven and eternal power so that man could be reunited with God.

How come your Jesus is still all powerful, and presently in Heaven as you claim if he forfeited heaven and eternal power?

Maybe you should look up the word forfeit so you understand the definition of sacrifice above.

ezme:

How come your Jesus is still all powerful, and presently in Heaven as you claim if he forfeited heaven and eternal power?

Maybe you should look up the word forfeit so you understand the definition of sacrifice above.

he forfeited his power and heaven for the greater good of bringing man to God, reunited in himself.

Joshthefirst: he forfeited his power and heaven for the greater good of bringing man to God, reunited in himself.

And why is man not reunited with him?

Timmytimmy: *laughing sympathtically*........*smh*.......you don't get it,do you?

What is it I don't get? Hell? Lol, guess u find it strange. Not everyone dreads hell. I'd rather go to hell than submit my brain to fairytales.

The story that God created MAN, gave MAN freewill and a TREE of good and bad fruit, MAN ate the bad fruit and GOD cursed MAN, THEN GOD SENT JESUS(GOD OR BEGOTTEN SON) to sacrifice himself to God in order that God will forgive mankind. Israel's history,wars,slavery,great men,heroes,belief,values,superstition,books,culture e.t.c should not turn people into ZOMBIES

mazaje:

And why is man not reunited with him?

cos jesus was a failure.

Joshthefirst: he forfeited his power and heaven for the greater good of bringing man to God, reunited in himself.

He forfeited it for a few years cos he knew he'd have it back forever.Now who wouldn't do that?

mazaje:

And why is man not reunited with him?

man who accepts his salvation is reunited with him. Men have been reunited with him through the ages. Men from different countries and peoples have felt this great and genuine bond with God in Christ Jesus. You cannot be reunited with a God you don't believe exists.

But us, we know joy and praise. We're truly living the life.
And we're everywhere.

We might look ordinary, but when you interact and look, we're as luminant as light shining in darkness.

And we will shine in nigeria and everywhere. The genuine people of God are stirring for a great move.

We know this God. We have his objective image in our lives. We show him to the world. Even in the midst of hypocrites and false teachers and religionists and exploiters, the real light is there.

We are saved. Members of Gods household.

Beretta92: He forfeited it for a few years cos he knew he'd have it back forever.Now who wouldn't do that?

he was beaten and demeaned and disgraced. What do you mean who wouldn't do that? He was wounded and spat upon and killed for what he didn't do. Who wouldn't do that?
He was tormented and tortured and grasped by the cold hands of death. Who wouldn't do that?

He bore the punishment of his enemies and died for sinners who might later reject him and mock his sacrifice.
Who wouldn't do that?

Scarcely for a righteous man would one give his life, but God showed forth his great love for us in that why we were yet sinners, christ died for us

Joshthefirst: he was beaten and demeaned and disgraced. What do you mean who wouldn't do that? He was wounded and spat upon and killed for what he didn't do. Who wouldn't do that?
He was tormented and tortured and grasped by the cold hands of death. Who wouldn't do that?

He bore the punishment of his enemies and died for sinners who might later reject him and mock his sacrifice.
Who wouldn't do that?

Scarcely for a righteous man would one give his life, but God showed forth his great love for us in that why we were yet sinners, christ died for us

Lol @ josh, i will gladly do all that u mentioned above knowing the end from the begining. It wouldnt be a big deal to me knowing that i will just have to be humiliated for a day or two and then i also know i will wake up in three days and better life goes on.
Hell men have made greater sacrifice and lost their loved ones forever.
What exactlly did jesus lose? A few days of glory.
Nigerians have seen much worst. Some people are ready to b mad men for years just to make money... Why is
 a GOD taking a human form (which is
 unessecary) and suffer for a few days be given such priority?
What was the nessecity of the sacrifice? Who created the tree or liife in d'garden of eden?
Why did he send flood in noah's' regime instead? Did he forget to send himself then?
Thia whole this u keep on spewing is just so confusing.

frank3.16:


Lol @ josh, i will gladly do all that u mentioned above knowing the end from the begining. It wouldnt be a big deal to me knowing that i will just have to be humiliated for a day or two and then i also know i will wake up in three days and better life goes on.
Hell men have made greater sacrifice and lost their loved ones forever.
What exactlly did jesus lose? A few days of glory.
Nigerians have seen much worst. Some people are ready to b mad men for years just to make money... Why is
 a GOD taking a human form (which is
 unessecary) and suffer for a few days be given such priority?
What was the nessecity of the sacrifice? Who created the tree or liife in d'garden of eden?
Why did he send flood in noah's' regime instead? Did he forget to send himself then?
Thia whole this u keep on spewing is just so confusing.

I seem to be saying the same thing because you keep repeating the same questions don't you think?

This isn't true.

You can as well go to a court and stand before the judge in place of a condemned and hardened criminal who would call you a fool for taking his place. You would take his place and be condemned to death. You would first be tortured and beaten up and stripped n.aked, all the while being insulted by the very man you stand for, and being forsaken by your friends. At any time, you could choose to refuse to take the place of the criminal, but you choose to die for his sake. And suffer a terrible death, having done NOTHING wrong.

You are not being honest with yourself, that's why you don't value Jesus' sacrifice.

1. Jesus was killed for his crimes against Jewish laws
2. Jesus was never/is not God the son, or God himself. He is an ordinary soul far Less than Elijah in the pantheon of judaic prophets

Joshthefirst: I seem to be saying the same thing because you keep repeating the same questions don't you think?

This isn't true.

You can as well go to a court and stand before the judge in place of a condemned and hardened criminal who would call you a fool for taking his place. You would take his place and be condemned to death. You would first be tortured and beaten up and stripped n.aked, all the while being insulted by the very man you stand for, and being forsaken by your friends. At any time, you could choose to refuse to take the place of the criminal, but you choose to die for his sake. And suffer a terrible death, having done NOTHING wrong.

You are not being honest with yourself, that's why you don't value Jesus' sacrifice.

Honestly mr. Josh, i will do it for my late mum or fiance if i know that i will simply come back to my human form after humiliating myself for these two loved ones. If am told. "Go to jail for them and Take back ur glory in a greater form after a few year" i will gladly do it.
We humans have sacrificed more. What did jesus go through? My girl (who was a christian) did in a car crash that caused her to burn to death? Jesus didnt even suffer half of waht she had went through while burning to death.
It wasnt even a sacrifice for her, yet she went through it for nothing, but ur jesus went through humiliation and torture only to rise again in glory, and and we cant hear any word. Yet he is ready to torture pple in hell for nt believing in him.
Pls take such god and dont bring him around me

Joshthefirst: I seem to be saying the same thing because you keep repeating the same questions don't you think?

This isn't true.

You can as well go to a court and stand before the judge in place of a condemned and hardened criminal who would call you a fool for taking his place. You would take his place and be condemned to death. You would first be tortured and beaten up and stripped n.aked, all the while being insulted by the very man you stand for, and being forsaken by your friends. At any time, you could choose to refuse to take the place of the criminal, but you choose to die for his sake. And suffer a terrible death, having done NOTHING wrong.

You are not being honest with yourself, that's why you don't value Jesus' sacrifice.

This topic entails questions which you cannot clearly answer.
The only sense I have gotten from you is that jesus came to die to display humility. Nothing more. and he can still repeat the same cycle again for fun. I think a new thread is better to go deeper.

frank3.16:


Honestly mr. Josh, i will do it for my late mum or fiance if i know that i will simply come back to my human form after humiliating myself for these two loved ones. If am told. "Go to jail for them and Take back ur glory in a greater form after a few year" i will gladly do it.
We humans have sacrificed more. What did jesus go through? My girl (who was a christian) did in a car crash that caused her to burn to death? Jesus didnt even suffer half of waht she had went through while burning to death.
It wasnt even a sacrifice for her, yet she went through it for nothing, but ur jesus went through humiliation and torture only to rise again in glory, and and we cant hear any word. Yet he is ready to torture pple in hell for nt believing in him.
Pls take such god and dont bring him around me

were your late mum and fiance sinners who would not appreciate your sacrifice?
Your case is about going to jail. This is about death

He bore the wages of our sins: death

Don't say that sir. Would you give your life for a person who sins and who probably wouldn't even appreciate your sacrifice and continue to sin in the future?
Jesus died for us sinners, from the most refined sinner, to the worst kind of murderer. He died for those who mocked him on the cross and still mock him today. He prayed for those who tortured him.


I'm sorry for your loss sir. But think of it. She died. It caused you sorrow(I know that kind of sorrow, my heart grieves even now). And you loved her. Well sir. Jesus was killed by the same people he loved. He died for them.

The harshness of death can drive a man further away from truth and reality, or push him closer to it.

I feel your loss sir. I pray you'll find comfort and joy and hope and salvation in Christ Jesus.

Thanks mr josh... I appreciate ur kind words about my beloved lost ones.

Back to topic... What then is use of his sacrifice (jesus i mean) if the so many pple he died for because they didnt bElieve in him still do not believe in him after the sacrifice? I mean we still have to believe in him to be saved, dont we? He would have just remained in heaven and asked us to believe in him or perish instead of going though the sacrifice.
Drama drama drama, that is what pisses me up with christianity. Does jesus ever consider his sacrifice a failure upon seeing the number of pple going to hell? If it were me and i die for my mum yet she sent to jail i will consider my sacrifice a failure

frank3.16:
Thanks mr josh... I appreciate ur kind words about my beloved lost ones.

Back to topic... What then is use of his sacrifice (jesus i mean) if the so many pple he died for because they didnt bElieve in him still do not believe in him after the sacrifice? I mean we still have to believe in him to be saved, dont we? He would have just remained in heaven and asked us to believe in him or perish instead of going though the sacrifice.
Drama drama drama, that is what pisses me up with christianity. Does jesus ever consider his sacrifice a failure upon seeing the number of pple going to hell? If it were me and i die for my mum yet she sent to jail i will consider my sacrifice a failure

people are going to hell, but multitudes have gone, and are going to heaven. Those who recognize this great love respond in repentance and faith.

You wouldn't consider your sacrifice a failure sir, you'll consider your mum a failure. You sacrificed so she wouldn't have to go to jail, but she rejected your sacrifice and messed up all the more. The judge who knows about your sacrifice would even give her a bigger jail term for not valueing the precious gift you bought for her.

That's how it is with God.
People these days even venture into lawlessness all the more, insulting this sacrifice and insulting the judge himself. He is patient, but justice will come still.

Romans 2:4 Or perhaps you despise his great kindness, tolerance, and patience. Surely you know that God is kind, because he is trying to lead you to repent. 5 But you have a hard and stubborn heart, and so you are making your own punishment even greater on the Day when God's anger and righteous judgments will be revealed. 6 For God will reward each of us according to what we have done.

Joshthefirst: That's how it is with God.
People these days even venture into lawlessness all the more, insulting this sacrifice and insulting the judge himself. He is patient, but justice will come still.

Romans 2:4 Or perhaps you despise his great kindness, tolerance, and patience. Surely you know that God is kind, because he is trying to lead you to repent. 5 But you have a hard and stubborn heart, and so you are making your own punishment even greater on the Day when God's anger and righteous judgments will be revealed. 6 For God will reward each of us according to what we have done.

You are a failed fear monger. . .

mazaje:

You are a failed fear monger. . .

its not ordinary fear I speak of. This is serious stuff. Is that all you have to say. I believe mankind will suffer in hell if they reject this good sacrifice of christ and keep on sinning. Best to speak seriously about the matter at hand, which is salvation.

If Jesus died for humanity then humanity should be saved already, we don't have to worship him before we claim the salvation. I can smell conspiracy all around christianity, I don't see the relevance of believing in him before u can make heaven, it's all just a political strategy. A good man who doesn't believe in Jesus would go to hell, while a bad man who recently repents 3secs before death makes heaven, this sounds like a proud Jesus not humble one, a Jesus that is hungry for recognition and worship.

No spirit or gods in pagan spirituality would do that. If he makes a sacrifice in the name of humanity, it should cut across all humans, Christian or not.

You Christians inherit the racist and discriminative attitude of Jews

Jews also believe if u are not Jew, you pay for ur sins against God, because only Jews are children of God
According to Jewish law, all Christians of the world shall be punished by Elohim for spreading lies and blasphemy.

I prefer to believe the Jews rather than believe a religion that was only created as a political game by Romans

mazaje:

You are a failed fear monger. . .

macof: If Jesus died for humanity then humanity should be saved already, we don't have to worship him before we claim the salvation. I can smell conspiracy all around christianity, I don't see the relevance of believing in him before u can make heaven, it's all just a political strategy. A good man who doesn't believe in Jesus would go to hell, while a bad man who recently repents 3secs before death makes heaven, this sounds like a proud Jesus not humble one, a Jesus that is hungry for recognition and worship.

No spirit or gods in pagan spirituality would do that. If he makes a sacrifice in the name of humanity, it should cut across all humans, Christian or not.

You Christians inherit the racist and discriminative attitude of Jews

Jews also believe if u are not Jew, you pay for ur sins against God, because only Jews are children of God
According to Jewish law, all Christians of the world shall be punished by Elohim for spreading lies and blasphemy.

I prefer to believe the Jews rather than believe a religion that was only created as a political game by Romans

why are you always speaking in this way. Ask yourself what the standard of good is first and ask yourself the question: are you a good man?
If there's a heaven,(the preempt is for the doubters), Do you deserve to go there?

Jesus will not force his salvation on you when all you'll keep doing is continue to break the laws and reap the punishment he saved you from

Joshthefirst: people are going to hell, but multitudes have gone, and are going to heaven. Those who recognize this great love respond in repentance and faith.

You wouldn't consider your sacrifice a failure sir, you'll consider your mum a failure. You sacrificed so she wouldn't have to go to jail, but she rejected your sacrifice and messed up all the more. The judge who knows about your sacrifice would even give her a bigger jail term for not valueing the precious gift you bought for her.

Guy, it surprises me how God needs u so much to defend him.
even before his death Jesus talked about how narrow d way is meaning he knew about ¦w difficult it would b for humans to follow his way and belive in him.
Why would God, the creator of heaven and
Earth, the ominipotent and Ominipresence God, the i am that i am and Blah blah blah
Want to gamble with his life to save a few. Why would he sacrifice his life knowing that there was still a possibility of millions sufferin for eternity after his effort. Why not device a more productive plan since he is all loving and knowing.
Why sacrifice himself and then allow the success of his sacrifice to depend on those he suffered for? Drama drama drama.
Pls for reasons i dont know, all u explanations do not jst make sense, unfortunately i will be banished in helll for all the senselessness i feel.

It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't even have to be factually true. Just believe it or else you will burn in hell!!! Every other thing na jara.

Joshthefirst: why are you always speaking in this way. Ask yourself what the standard of good is first and ask yourself the question: are you a good man?
If there's a heaven,(the preempt is for the doubters), Do you deserve to go there?

Jesus will not force his salvation on you when all you'll keep doing is continue to break the laws and reap the punishment he saved you from

I am good but according to ur Christan doctrine my goodnes is worthless, I must believe and worship Jesus.

Jesus here is trying to force himself on people with fear of hell.