Goshen360:

Off course, you can't see the difference, you just reading.

Bidam: ofcos, i saw it. Unlike you am no hypocrite.

The only part i don't agree with him was in saying the gentiles replaced Israel.Scripture never implied,inferred or remotely say what he insinuated.

We gentiles as Paul rightly said were grafted into the commonwealth of Israel since Christ has gone to the cross and tore the veil hence breaking the dividing wall between the Jews and gentiles. Hence there is neither jew nor gentile we are all one in Christ.Galatians 3:28

Goshen360:

I will soon expose again, (like I did exposed the deception of Malachi devourer and storehouse) the deception of "tithing BY FAITH" which is the new modus operandi now for you tithe teachers.

What is Faith? Hebrews 11:1

So tithe teachers are now saying we tithe by FAITH assurance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen

Goshen360:

I will soon expose again, (like I did exposed the deception of Malachi devourer and storehouse) the deception of "tithing BY FAITH" which is the new modus operandi now for you tithe teachers.

What is Faith? Hebrews 11:1

So tithe teachers are now saying we tithe by FAITH assurance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen

Bidam: You see how you dey shoot yoursef abi?

“While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18 AV).

If you give your offerings in church, are you giving it to an Eternal God or to men?

Hebrews 11:4 tells us, "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." If God could collect offerings of Abel by faith, how much more our tithes.

Philippians 4:18 (ESV)

18 I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.

If Paul could commend the tithes and offerings(gifts) he received from the Philippians and say it is a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God(he cannot see) by Faith. That means it is very much scriptural to tithe by Faith.

Bidam: You see how you dey shoot yoursef abi?

[color=#990000 but the things which are not seen are eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18 AV).[/i][/color]

If you give your offerings in church, are you giving it to an Eternal God or to men?

Hebrews 11:4 tells us, "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." If God could collect offerings of Abel by faith, how much more our tithes.

Philippians 4:18 (ESV)

18 I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.

If Paul could commend the tithes and offerings(gifts) he received from the Philippians
and say it is a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God(he cannot see) by Faith. That means it is very much scriptural to tithe by Faith.

Goshen360:

I can't just stop laughing at this your maneuvering. Abel, offered SACRIFICE...you said he God collected the OFFERING of Abel by FAITH.

2. Where did Paul collected TITHE AND OFFERING from Philippians and commended it?

Bidam:


no twisting there. Cain also offered his own was it received? Maybe Cain had no faith it was God receiving just like some of you always thinking your offerings are to men not to God.



Ok i concede tithe wasn't mentioned. It was stated gifts which can be tithes,offerings,support,etc etc.. the point here is that PAUL STATED THESE GIVINGS WERE NOT TO him BUT TO God.

miqos02: sir paul did not recieve tithes anywhere in the bible

Goshen360:

1. Bidam, sacrifices and offerings in scripture means different things. You should know that by now.

2. If tithe wasn't mentioned, why did you inferred what wasn't mentioned into scripture? I could also use that verse and say gift means collecting from armed robbers and shaddy business, it's all gift.

The point is, everywhere IN SCRIPTURE tithe is taught, it was mentioned. Do not read into scripture what it doesn't say. It's dangerous. Gift is gift sent to people in appreciation of the receiver, tithe is a commandment.

Goshen360:

I will soon expose again, (like I did exposed the deception of Malachi devourer and storehouse) the deception of "tithing BY FAITH" which is the new modus operandi now for you tithe teachers.

What is Faith? Hebrews 11:1

So tithe teachers are now saying we tithe by FAITH assurance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen

Bidam: Of cos Paul had to Rob other churches of their support to serve the carnal Corinthians who were self seeking and self centered. I hope you pay your tithes to your local assembly so as to ease their burden. You sure are robbing God not men.

2 Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Bidam: Of cos Paul had to Rob other churches of their support to serve the carnal Corinthians who were self seeking and self centered. I hope you pay your tithes to your local assembly so as to ease their burden. You sure are robbing God not men.

2 Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

miqos02:
please can you differenciate between the words PAY and GIVE

rudedough:

[b]If you want to lie about the bible, lie in another thread cos this one has been hijacked by religious scholars.

Apostle Paul was a missionary of the early Christian Church, he made long missionary journeys throughout the Roman Empire planting churches and preaching the gospel. He traveled through the Nile River all over Israel, Judea, Samaria, Phoenicia, and Syria. He extended east to the Euphrates River and North to the Black Sea, Bethlehem, Egypt, through Nazareth and to Jerusalem. But he never asked a Penny from anyone who listened to his gospels.

In 2 Corinthians 11:8; Apostle Paul wasn't literally saying he robbed other churches, that's a ridiculous interpretation. He was telling his members that he Preach the gospel without charge so he doesn't become a burden to anyone.

Your handpicked verse seems so because you choose to cut out the rest of the story and pick one verse that supports your propaganda. Now read the complete verses for your understanding.

2 Corinthians 11:6-9 "6 But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things. 7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you without charge? 8 I robbed other churches by taking wages from them to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so"

The other Churches he was talking about, he planted them. Do you know that Apostle Paul had a job? A far cry for these modern day thievery Pastors.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you.

2 Thessalonians 3:8 We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you.

1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Apostle Paul never demanded for Offerings, Tithes, Pastor Thanks Giving, Seed Sowing, Church Building Donation, Harvest Levy and other fraudulent charges levied upon the poor unsuspicious congregation. The church was funded through voluntary donations and the Bible never anywhere mentioned that the Church was funded through tithes and offerings.

You guys should repent of these evil acts and get yourselves a honest job like everyone else.[/b]

Bidam: I think this is what an atheist needs for now.

Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.

I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.

You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.

Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.

Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.
Amen.

rudedough:

Now these are the kind of things Christians say to Atheists [s]that brings about the degrading of their God.[/s]

Why will you call Atheists sinners? What have they done as sin?

Because they don't believe in your Jesus makes them sinners?

What about the Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, Rastafarian.. are they sinners too?

Bro what's your problem? Keep your religion to yourself, you shouldn't force other people to share in your belief.

Thanks

Bidam: ALL are hell bound except they accept Christ as their Lord and saviour.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ESV

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God

Ephesians 2:2 ESV

In which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

It's high time you repent and believe the gospel. It becomes my problem because God says at the time of ignorance He overlooked but now calls on you to repent.

Acts 17:30-31

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

30 In the past people did not understand God, and he overlooked this. But now he is telling everyone in the world to change and turn to him. 31 He has decided on a day when he will judge all the people in the world in a way that is fair. To do this he will use a man he chose long ago. And he has proved to everyone that this is the man to do it. He proved it by raising him from death!”

I know you're trying your best to derail this thread after I pointed out your folly attempt to twist the bible.

I forgive you Bro.

rudedough:

I know you're trying your best to derail this thread after I've pointed out your folly attempt to twist the bible.

I forgive you Bro.

Bidam: I pointed your blindness that's all. I am actually doing you a disservice if i do not preach Christ to you. I am sorry that my brothers(antithers) are overzealous in their defense not to show you the way to life everlasting.Apologies on their behalf.

I understand your disgruntlement. It must have been very difficult and unbearable for you to have an Atheist teaching you the bible.

Nicodemus was disgruntled too, but he still sneaked out at night to meet Jesus in secret. (John 3:1-21)

And Jesus asked him “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you don’t understand these things?" (John 3:10)

So i ask you Pastor Bidam and Pastor Dumo, Are you guys truly Pastors and yet you don’t know the bible?"

DrummaBoy:
The best kind of deliverance is understanding my brother.

Image123:
Why do we give tithe? What is our foundation for obedience? Actions are motivated in many ways, actions have different reasons. i've seen people pray because they were forced to. i've also seen people fast so that something evil will happen to another. i've seen people read the word of God to find holes and contradictions. i believe in the three actions above; prayer, fasting and reading the word of God. On the other hand, i disagree with the three motives or reasons above. These three scenarios show that the ACTION should not be condemned for(because of) the reason/motive of the actor. This is a treatment often meted out on the TITHE. Different people have their reasons for doing things. We do not all have the same reasons for salvation or believing God.

Image123:
i can safely forget everything else and go home, knowing that God's law is the truth. Jesus Christ said the same thing BTW; Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. .............. Because it is truth and light, it should be respected and regarded.

Image123:
We cannot or should not dismiss any Word of God with a wave of the hand. The wave of the hand dismissal is very common with the Old Testament scripture, and is even done to some new testament scriptures. This ought not to be so. To show the immense importance of the Old Testament scriptures and how rooted the new testament books are in the old testament scriptures, nearly all the 39 books are quoted in the new testament. Let me give to the best of my knowledge, an example of at least 30 books regarded and respected in the New Testament.

Image123:
The law of the LORD is perfect. We should never think that it was perfect before, and imperfect now. The law of the LORD is perfect. It is so perfect that God promised to put it in His children in our time.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


I will put my laws into their hearts. This is God's will and wish.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
Psa 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;
Psa 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Zikkyy: So image123 says the motive for Christians rendering 10% of their income (a.k.a. tithing) is because they believe that the law of God is truth and should be regarded. I want to say such justification is not held by majority of tithers and such justification is held only by those that want to deceive themselves. God cannot be deceived

END

i believe am also allowed to 'end' my presentation, abi?

Image123: To the moderators

It seems it is our turn to be 'amazed', this time at the silence of the moderators as our fellow discussants are bravenly flouting the thread rules.

Image123: All they do is disregard it, belittle it and mock it.
i do hope the moderators do not just gloss over them or thank them for it, if indeed there are rules agreed to in the first page.

Bidam: Yeah..they were even hiding my comments while allowing antithers to comment freely on their thread.
What do you think you will be expecting when the moderator himself is an antither.

Bidam: I think this is what an atheist needs for now.

Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness.

I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin.

You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved.

Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved.

Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself.

Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life.
Amen.

miqos02: bro,i am a believer in all you wrote so there is no point saying them, but please address the issues raised. i.e difference between "PAY and GIVE"