See also;


Does Defending Homosexualiity Require You To Defend Polygamy And Incest As Well?

debate.org:
Yes, and I fail to see why this is a
problem This post is not so much to
propagate my views as to simply ask the
question: why do so many people consider
incest to be objectively wrong?
I'm opposed to incestuous couples having
children as I gather they are likely to have
genetic diseases, and I would obviously only
endorse a consensual marriage (not with
minors etc.) but beyond that I really don't
view it as a problem. However I know this is
controversial and I would like to fully
understand the arguments by people who
are against incest; so please could people
explain their views to me? This is not me
trying to be challenging particularly, I would
just like to get a better picture. So thank
you.
Also I have no interest in people using
religion to justify their beliefs, as I do not
believe religion to be an adequate objective
justification for anything.
Posted by: Kathyrn
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If defending Gay Marriage on
grounds of equality then YES If this
whole so called "equality" movement must
exist and tinker with the social system, our
values and ethics, then it needs to be
completely unbiased. I personally don't agree
with gay marriage, transgenderism or any
of these other perversions as an
acceptable, let alone "equal" option in our
society and social system. These are
conditions, psychological, social and possibly
genetic defects, which should be treated as
such. Cures, treatments and therapies
should be available to cure these unnatural
conditions, or at least be given an equal
philosophical stance should we chose to
accept that some people may be
comfortable identifying themselves with
these conditions. In which case, if people are
to be true to the cause of equality then all
forms including polygamy, incest and
anything else should be accepted and
tolerated.
That's not to say however that certain
people are very much biased, either for
political or agenda purposes, or that these
are the beliefs that have been imprinted on
them. However, if someone purports to
support gay marriage on a stance of
equality and compassion for all, then by
default that must include all CHOICES and
human concepts of marriage and social
relationships. That is, providing all concerned
parties are in agreement, as forcing
marriage against someone's will is
universally wrong,
Posted by: elemental.unity
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Either all rights or none If the
government wants to get involved in
marriage, they must allow equal rights
among all kinds of marriages. So if you
support the government making it
mandatory that all institutions, government
or otherwise, allow gay marriage, then you
cannot just say that it is not okay to do tat
for polygamy or incest because you think it's
wrong or unnatural.
Posted by: Fictional_Truths1
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Deviating from the natural norm
opens pandora's box Traditional
marriage between a man and woman is the
most natural, normal, stable, and productive
relationship that can exist for humans.
Other relationships may attempt to model or
copy this basic unit of society but without
success. In order to deviate from the basic
standard of traditional marriage, which is
based on the most fundamental relationship,
it must be argued that other relationships
like homosexual, incestuous, bestial, etc are
equal and deserve fair treatment under the
law. It does not follow logic or reason to
allow one form of deviance to copy
traditional marriage without allowing other
forms as well. This holds true despite the
reasons that the pro-gay marriage
community may stand upon to justify their
position.

www.debate.org/opinions/does-defending-gay-marriage-require-you-to-defend-polygamy-and-incest-as-well



Welcome to a world of equality.

freshdude2: Stop twisting my words,
Oh, I almost forgot: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339108/David-Epstein-Homosexuals-want-INCEST-different.html#ixzz2Pas52aRB

The daily-fvcking mail. Just STOP.

freshdude2: Don't be the clown who twists other people's arguments to make yourself sound smart. Perhaps, my earlier post is the slippery slope that made you into an idiiot.

And oh, pedoplilia will soon officially be made an illness as against a crime. Which means pedophiiles might be required to see specialists rather than be incarcerated and at worst be confined to mental institutions which, itself, is highly improbable.

It's all about freedom and what one chooses to find reprehensible or disgusting. If Man A is free to fvck Man B without eyebrows being raised, why should Man A fvcking his sister right in the pusssy or fvcking an under-16 be disgusting to someone else. It's all a matter of preference, wouldn't you agree?

I've never seen anybody fvck their sibling in public, so, that should be naturally be noone's business if they did it behind closed doors.

Nah, we're mourning your comprehension deficiency.

Ain't it funny how she made homosexuality acceptable on the basis of it's one's séxual preference and as long as it's consensual, there's nothing wrong in it; but once Coogar pointed out that incést if it's consensual and between two adults should not be condemned, as with polygamy (according to her logic), she steered the ship of the discourse to another direction trying make it seem, only her has the moral compass to determine which sexùal preference is worth engaging in? Utter bullocks!!

No need debating this topic, the truth is there for any discerning mind to decipher.

njokusboy: . I read dat post like 10 times and I didn't see where he said that homosexxuality was a precursor for incest.... He was merely pointing out the fact dat in the long run, incest would become acceptable same way homesexxuality is now in western communities.....sometime ago, homosexxuality was forbidden, if homosexxuality which was forbidden, some time ago is as common as skating today in America, what stops incest from progressing likewise... They afterall follow the same mentality, its between adults, its consensual, a proof that "they were born dat way" could also be established/invented... Its dat simple...

Hehehe.. In future bet me, we might not be alive to witness it, incést will be legalised. All it'd take is for one dimwit to champion the cause on the basis of fundamental human rights. After all, if bestiálity, homosexuality, etc., can be legalised, what's stops incést lovers from having their own?

coogar:

for the umpteenth time, the statistics was pro-rata. it's per 1000 teenage girls. the sheer number of the population has no bearing. please, stop embarrassing yourself. the statistics didn't just count all the pregnant teenagers. it was per every 1,000 teenage girls(rate)!

Yeeeeeeeshhhh!

I said THE POPULATION. The intricacies of the US POPULATION are not the same as other WESTERN COUNTRIES. I asked you why if freedom = chaos, you're overlooking the western countries with negligible rates in these areas! You still haven't answered that -unsurprisingly.

Then YOU brought CHINA into it for its population SIZE and asked why it had lower incarceration rates, to which I replied:

"The fact is, Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries! And they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations which makes the incarceration rate HIGHER.

Why are you being so willfully ignorant??

which obvious reasons?
if china's discipline seems to be working, how come america & the rest of the western countries aren't adopting their methods? why is your heavenly west shitty about horrible divorce rate, teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, gun violence & pitiful incarceration stats

China's discipline! Do you anything about about China??

You're on a LOOP.

njokusboy: . Okay, tell us what makes in'ce'st worse than homosexxuality... Also tell us, why u think in'ce'st cannot become acceptable over time considering the fact that homosexxuality was...

I believe I answered the bolded directly to you and other so. numerous occasions. I've also been explaining my POV from the very beginning. In fact, I'm the only one here who has. Did you not see my posts?

Can you tell me why you consider incest better than homosexuality??

fme: In order for remaining laws against
consensual incest to be removed,
we'll likely need a good test case for
the courts. What that would require is a
respectable and otherwise law-abiding (and
attractive wouldn’t hurt) long-term
consanguinamorous couple to fight a state
law against consensual incest. The
catch-22 is that since people can be, and
are, prosecuted for engaging in this
consensual relationship, lovers have a
strong motivation to hide these
relationships, and that is a hindrance to
getting the laws changed. It would help if a
couple in a state, such as Rhode Island,
with no law against consensual incest,
applied for a marriage license and
subsequently got the courts to overturn
prohibitions on consanguineous marriages.
However, in addition to fear of prosecution
and other legal problems, some people who
are, or have been, involved in
consanguinamory would prefer the law
and/or the taboo remain in place, either
because they like being the rebel, they are
self-loathing, or they can’t (anymore) have
what they want and they don’t want
anyone else to have it, either. But they are
the minority; most people involved in these
relationships very much want their rights.

Also from marriage equality

fme:

Anonymous[/b]I have been apart of Consensual
Incest with my neice who is the
same age as me, and from my
personal experience, I find nothing
morally wrong with incest. While I
understand why society views
incest as "Taboo", and as people
have previously posted does cause
genetic problems due to the
similarities and clashing within the
genetic code, I find that there is no
reason why two people who love
each other and understand the risks
involved should not be able to
produce an offspring. To deny two
humans from being together due to
similarities within their DNA is wrong
in my opinion.

[b]Anonymous
I must say I'm a guy that has
been separated from my three
half-sisters due to divorce when
I was really little, and never
grew up with them. So in the
past couple years of being
reunited with them, I've found a
major emotional and physical
attraction to them. I have slept
with the oldest one on more
than a few occasions
consensually. Her and I'd even
talk about moving to a country
where marrying siblings was
legal.
At any rate, I've never
understood why people have to
use the one-and-only "genetic
code and birth" excuse when it
comes to the justification of
having incest being illegal. Saying
that, when there's plenty of
preventive measures to not
have offspring is just downright
unobservant.
We've all grown up in different
circumstances and households. I
feel those who haven't had the
benefits of growing up in a full
household, shouldn't be restricted
from their feelings or disgraced
because of it. The way I see
incest in my case, it's not only
the missing Westermarck effect,
it's all the years of missed
support and love (me being the
one and only older brother).
Lastly, I also wish I didn't have
these feelings sometimes, but I
do. It is disheartening because of
society, and also something of
which you doubt the family
would be supportive in.

Source:marriage-equality..nl/2011/11/frequently-asked-question-why-is-incest.html?m=1bv

EnlightenedSoul:
Yeeeeeeeshhhh!

I said THE POPULATION. The intricacies of the US POPULATION are not the same as other WESTERN COUNTRIES. I asked you why if freedom = chaos, you're overlooking the western countries with negligible rates in these areas! You still haven't answered that unsurprisingly.

says the same flip-flopper that claimed freedom in the USA is fairly the same as that of the western europe. all of a sudden, the intricacies are different? oh my gosh - you are plumbing the depths of idiòcy - the depths jacques costeau wouldn't dare reach.

Then YOU brought CHINA into it for its population SIZE and asked why it had lower incarceration rates, to which I replied:

"The fact is, Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries! And they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations which makes the incarceration rate HIGHER.

Why are you being so willfully ignorant??

so the harsh punishment for any mistake is also the reason american teenage girls are promiscuous? it's the reason they can't keep it together? according to your logic, crime & punishment spiked the teenage pregnancy rate.......

spërm flakes have occupied your cranial cavity.

China's discipline! Do you anything about about China??

You're on a LOOP.

no, i don't know anything about china. this is actually the first time i am hearing there's a country called china. what a twit!!!

if china's disciplinary measure seems to be working, why don't western societies adopt their methods? that's the question you cannot answer - you keep jumping from one edge to another like a toad high on meth.

EnlightenedSoul:

I believe I answered the bolded directly to you and other so. numerous occasions. I've also been explaining my POV from the very beginning. In fact, I'm the only one here who has. Did you not see my posts?

Can you tell me why you consider incest better than homosexuality??

. U said they were not the same, which is true... U have only stated ur preference for one over the other.... We are telling you they follow the same logic and if one could be legalised, why not the other... If u have any logical reason why in'ce'st cannot be legalised state them and if u have stated them before and I was so blind, I didn't see them... Quote them...

Chai! Dis boy again and argument.. Dem swear for you?

njokusboy: . Okay, tell us what makes in'ce'st worse than homosexxuality... Also tell us, why u think in'ce'st cannot become acceptable over time considering the fact that homosexxuality was...

.

freshdude2: Stop twisting my words, Sweety.

Meanwhile, @ bolded;



Oh, I almost forgot: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339108/David-Epstein-Homosexuals-want-INCEST-different.html#ixzz2Pas52aRB

LMAO!! A lawyer is already defending his client.

You're a genius, it's truly a matter of time.

coogar:

says the same flip-flopper that claimed freedom in the USA is fairly the same as that of the western europe. all of a sudden, the intricacies are different? oh my gosh - you are plumbing the depths of idiòcy - the depths jacques costeau wouldn't dare reach.

My goodness!
YES, the FREEDOMS are fairly the same. Jacques Costeau is proving to have more wayyy more intellectual capital than you could ever claim.

so the harsh punishment for any mistake is also the reason american teenage girls are promiscuous? it's the reason they can't keep it together? according to your logic, crime & punishment spiked the teenage pregnancy rate.......

spërm flakes have occupied your cranial cavity.

WTF are you going on about now? Can you stick to facts instead of delivering your lame offside analogies? You can't pull something out from your asscrack and stick it an intelligent discussion

no, i don't know anything about china. this is actually the first time i am hearing there's a country called china. what a twit!!!

Than why isn't it within your mental capacity to realize that you're comparing apples to oranges?

if china's disciplinary measure seems to be working, why don't western societies adopt their methods? that's the question you cannot answer - you keep jumping from one edge to another like a toad high on meth.

*Facepalm*
The fvck makes you think the US would want to copy China?? It may just be that it really is the first time you're hearing about China. It may be the first time you're hearing about the US! Arrant nonsense.

Anacksunamun:

Ain't it funny how she made homosexuality acceptable on the basis of it's one's séxual preference and as long as it's consensual, there's nothing wrong in it; but once Coogar pointed out that incést if it's consensual and between two adults should not be condemned, as with polygamy (according to her logic), she steered the ship of the discourse to another direction trying make it seem, only her has the moral compass to determine which sexùal preference is worth engaging in? Utter bullocks!!

No need debating this topic, the truth is there for any discerning mind to decipher.

At this point, I don't know if this is her pattern of thought or just a deliberate desperate attempt at saving face.

Kslib: Chai! Dis boy again and argument.. Dem swear for you?

. Hahaha, my brother, I dey try understand some people reasoning... U know say pple different, we dey learn everyday.....

EnlightenedSoul:
My goodness!
YES, the FREEDOMS are fairly the same. Jacques Costeau is proving to have more intellectual capital than you could ever hold if your reasoning is any indication.

same freedom but there are different intricacies in the freedom? you are a mongolian idïot!

WTF are you going on about now? Can you stick to facts instead of your stewpid offside analogies? You can't pull something out from your asscrack and stick it an intelligent discussion

i am not having any intelligent discussion with you. this is coogar taking the shyte on a delivery chic from papa johns. crime & punishment - the reason american prisons are filled to the brim. so what's responsible for the promiscuity?

Than why isn't it within your mental capacity to realize that you're comparing apples to oranges

how is it apple & oranges? why are you such a disgrace to the citadel of learning you spawned from? can you boldly say the money invested in your education was well-spent? the question is simple enough - what is responsible for your promiscuity in western countries?

*Facepalm*
The fvck makes you think the US would want to copy China?? It may just be that it really is the first time you're hearing about China. Arrant nonsense.

apart from the fact that america is their biggest debtor, there's a lot to copy from them even if we ignore the issues of what we are discussing - the ills of the western society.

EnlightenedSoul:

The daily-fvcking mail. Just STOP.

Well, it didn't happen then?! You need to eat ewa agoin.

freshdude2: At this point, I don't know if this is her pattern of thought or just a deliberate desperate attempt at saving face.

You're still thinking? The embolden is all she's been doing all these while. Same way she accused POPULATION of being the reason for high crime rate and teenage pregnancies; Coogar showed her that India and China has twice America's population and still don't have the same crime rate as USA, and she did what she knows how to do best, FLIP-FLOPPING.

freshdude2: Well, it didn't happen then?! You need to eat ewa agoin.

Idk wth that is, but whatever.

Tbh, I didn't even bother reading it. That's The Daily-freakin'-Mail.

freshdude2: Well, it didn't happen then?! You need to eat ewa agoin.

If it's from Fox news, she'd have said "the Fox-fvcking news. JUST STOP." . Quit wasting your time, she'll never accept her wrongs.

Anacksunamun: You're still thinking? The embolden is all she's been doing all these while. Same way she accused POPULATION of being the reason for high crime rate and teenage pregnancies; Coogar showed her that India and China has twice America's population and still don't have the same crime rate as USA, and she did what she knows how to do best, FLIP-FLOPPING.

yes now, the intricacies in the population size are different.


she doesn't even know the teenage pregnancy chart was per 1,000 women. i have lost hope in her since yesterday & don't be surprised she's a graduate of one of those obscure schools in eastern nigeria......nigeria can't just stop producing half-baked twits who cannot discern their left hand from their right.

njokusboy: . U said they were not the same, which is true... U have only stated ur preference for one over the other.... We are telling you they follow the same logic and if one could be legalised, why not the other... If u have any logical reason why in'ce'st cannot be legalised state them and if u have stated them before and I was so blind, I didn't see them... Quote them...

Lol@preference. It's not a preference, it's the acceptance of one based on the current scientific research available, and common sense.

That's what we'd call a baseless crutch argument. On what basis should one cause the other to be legalized? Incèst is against the law. Homosexuality never was. They're two completely different things.

It's like saying, oh now look pedophilia will be legalized 'cuz of those homos. Please.

So on what basis?

coogar:

yes now, the intricacies in the population size are different.


she doesn't even know the teenage pregnancy chart was per 1,000 women. i have lost hope in her since yesterday & don't be surprised she's a graduate of one of those obscure schools in eastern nigeria......nigeria can't just stop producing half-baked twits who cannot discern their left hand from their right.

LOL. She always have the perfect dumb excuse whenever she's caught. I won't be caught dead discussing this issue with her. The evidences against her lame replies are astounding.

Schooled in Nigeria? I doubt. From the few things I know about her, she grew up in the States/lived most of her life in the States (I might be wrong though, just guessing).

Anacksunamun:
LOL. She always have the perfect dumb excuse whenever she's caught. I won't be caught dead discussing this issue with her. The evidences against her lame replies are astounding.

the tortuous knots of logic she's tied herself in the last 24 hours have been mammoth! instead of her to raise her hands up & admit she's clueless, she's using google to tell me teenage pregnancy & 2 million prison population is "containable".

Schooled in Nigeria? I doubt. From the few things I know about her, she grew up in the States/lived most of her life in the States (I might be wrong though, just guessing).

she's a polytechnic graduate!
one of those schools where paying in cash or in kind attract A grades faster than you can spell your name.

njokusboy: . Hahaha, my brother, I dey try understand some people reasoning... U know say pple different, we dey learn everyday.....

E good !!

Anyway its nice to know that you are still very much consistent in the game..

Anacksunamun: If it's from Fox news, she'd have said "the Fox-fvcking news. JUST STOP." . Quit wasting your time, she'll never accept her wrongs.

That's DAMN RIGHT actually. Fox isn't a credible news source. Same as the Daily Mail, and even WIKI.

EnlightenedSoul:

Lol@preference. It's not a preference, it's the acceptance of one based on the current scientific research available, and common sense.

That's what we'd call a baseless crutch argument. On what basis should one cause the other to be legalized?

. Okay, state the current scientific research and make me see the common sense.... U seem to enjoy chasing rabbits, u wanna misquote me and turn everytin around the same way u misquoted freshdude..... Dis is an old trick.... Both are consentual, both are between adults... Both are equally debasing.... if one can be legalised, why can't the other...

coogar:

same freedom but there are different intricacies in the freedom?

My gosh, he gets it
Same freedoms, different intricacies within the population - the culture, the melting pot, the African American community, racial tensions, etc etc!!

I am not having any intelligent discussion with you. this is coogar taking the shyte on a delivery chic from papa johns. crime & punishment - the reason american prisons are filled to the brim. so what's responsible for the promiscuity?

What do you mean by promiscuity? Looll You're now judging how much sex people are having, mr. matchmaker? Thailand holds the title last I checked.

how is it apple & oranges?

Now this is silly. You want me to explain how China and the US are an apples to oranges comparison? They're different in pretty much every way imaginable :-/

apart from the fact that america is their biggest debtor, there's a lot to copy from them even if we ignore the issues of what we are discussing - the ills of the western society.

Like what? A vague opinion piece with zero points. China is fast becoming first GDP. Living in an America that ranks second in GDP to China will still be far, far better than living in China.

EnlightenedSoul:
My gosh, he gets it
Same freedoms, different intricacies within the population - the culture, the melting pot, the African American community, racial tensions, etc etc!!

you are a disgrace....
which culture? i laid the booby-trap so obvious and yet you still fell in it. there's no melting point or culture in america that isn't elsewhere. america wasn't the only place that carted slaves from africa - stop making flimst excuses for the irresponsible lives you lead out there.

What do you mean by promiscuity? Looll You're now judging how much sex people are having, mr. matchmaker? Thailand holds the title last I checked.

teenage pregnancy isn't promiscuity? like i keep reiterating, you lack the gift of foresight. go and read about teenage mothers & their likelihood to have kids that will get pregnant in their teens as well.

Now this is silly. You want me to explain how China and the US are an apples to oranges comparison? They're different in pretty much every way imaginable :-/

they aren't any different.
china takes his discipline seriously, US is free for all. china operates a modest freedom/rights, america can't even be bothered - they claim it's a land of the "free" except that a staggering 2 million of their citizens are locked up.

Like what? A vague opinion piece with zero points. China is fast becoming first GDP. Living in an America that ranks second in GDP to China will still be far, far better than living in China.

zero points? who are china's biggest debtor? do you even read the news? china is a super-power now, don't even kid yourself about it. every country wants to be on the side of china.

america's GDP means squat! GDP my left bütt. if you really sit down & analyse how GDP stats are calculated, you wouldn't even bring it up. nigeria has the highest GDP in africa & they aren't better than togo.

njokusboy: . Okay, state the common scientific research and make me see the common sense.... U seem to enjoy chasing rabbits, u wanna misquote me and turn everytin around the same way u misquoted freshdude..... Dis is an old trick.... Both are consentual, both are between adults... Both are equally debasing.... if one can be legalised, why can't the other...

How did I misquote him? Just look at the bold. Also notice the serious butt-kissing that's going on in here. Anyway, you're already stepping in with the wrong foot with all your bias and sentiments. I've honestly had enough of that.

If you consider me dishonest, I'd rather not continue. Keep to your ideas.

EnlightenedSoul:

How did I misquote him? Just look at the bold. Also notice the serious butt-kissing that's going on in here. Anyway, you're already stepping in with the wrong foot with all your bias and sentiments. I've honestly had enough of that.

If you consider me dishonest, I'd rather not continue. Keep to your ideas.

. Lolzz, I don't kiss a'r'se, if I honestly thought you had a good point, I'd have supported you... I think its better we end the argument....

coogar: you are a disgrace....
which culture? i laid the booby-trap so obvious and yet you still fell in it. there's no melting point or culture in america that isn't elsewhere. america wasn't the only place that carted slaves from africa - stop making flimst excuses for the irresponsible lives you lead out there

Trap?! On something you couldn't comprehend for the last day or so?

Credibility down with the bolded. The US is not like the UK is not like the Netherlands is not like Canada. The dynamics of the population is different. For instance, of the 2 million incarcerated, African Americans account for HALF that number at nearly 1 million (12% of the population). Normal across the board?

I think deep down you know that US can hardly compare to other countries.

teenage pregnancy isn't promiscuity? like i keep reiterating, you lack the gift of foresight. go and read about teenage mothers & their likelihood to have kids that will get pregnant in their teens as well.

Forget foresight, you lack basic elementary understanding. It's why your brain works in a loop? So revisiting....again:
Teenage pregnancy is teenage pregnancy. Pregnancy is not directly proportional to how promiscuous the society is. Hence the reason Thailand, which is apparently the most promiscuous place in the world, isn't even close to our high in TP's. UK has lower stats then we do, are you implying it's because they're not having sex? Rubbish! Are you implying that teenagers in Europe and other Western countries are abstaining? Bullshyt. It's prevention! TP is down 65% in the last 50 years and continues to nosedive. I've already explained this in detail.

That last point is no surprise. It's a general fact that holds everywhere, and can be linked to the socio-economic background.

they aren't any different.
china takes his discipline seriously, US is free for all. china operates a modest freedom/rights america can't even be bothered - they claim it's a land of the "free" except that a staggering 2 million of their citizens are locked up.

LMAO. Ok. I'm done.

zero points? who are china's biggest debtor? do you even read the news? china is a super-power now, don't even kid yourself about it. every country wants to be on the side of china. america's GDP means squat! GDP my left bütt. if you really sit down & analyse how GDP stats are calculated, you wouldn't even bring it up. nigeria has the highest GDP in africa & they aren't better than togo.

That could be argued, regardless, the statement still stands. China's caught up on trade, but it's still struggling in other areas of it's economy and it's still very competitive. Besides that, the general quality of life is incomparable. China being a superpower hasn't yet changed that. Hopefully it will improve.

G'byeeeeeeeeeee.