pickabeau1:

Can u share this story here..moses and khidr

read the post by HOB on this page.

Sissie:

read the post by HOB on this page.

ive read it but still dont get the parable

The guide sunk a ship with people, killed an apostate boy and straightened a wall..

I get the conclusion but not the story

http://www.alim.org/library/biography/stories/content/SOP/7/17/Musa%20(Moses)/The%20Story%20Moses%20and%20Al-Khidr

Pickabeau1 or check that link. Has the story.

onegig: http://www.alim.org/library/biography/stories/content/SOP/7/17/Musa%20(Moses)/The%20Story%20Moses%20and%20Al-Khidr

Pickabeau1 or check that link. Has the story.

Thanks bro.. i had read it but did not get the point
Moses should know that the ways of God are higher than his's

Why argue with God

pickabeau1:

Thanks bro.. i had read it but did not get the point
Moses should know that the ways of God are higher than his's

Why argue with God

Exactly what the story was trying to teach but man in his ego and shortsightedness would want to always question God's ways. The story is just a reflection that we need to dump the physical brain or intellect and garb the spiritual wear before we maybe able to understand somethings. Not everything that happens or instructed should be seen in black and white but shades of grey.


This link perfectly captures, analysizes things and explains the story.

http://simerg.com/parables/the-parable-of-moses-and-khidr-in-the-holy-qur’an-an-ismaili-interpretation/

pickabeau1:

ive read it but still dont get the parable

The guide sunk a ship with people, killed an apostate boy and straightened a wall..

I get the conclusion but not the story

the story is Moses was a knowledgeable man who thought he was the most knowledgeable, he was a prophet and performed miracles he did not question GOD, he assumed he was the most knowledgeable, until God revealed to him he didn't know it all and sent him to look for khidr.

i.e when khidr killed the boy, without the explanation at the end moses would have concluded he was an evil man without looking at the bigger picture of why the boy was killed.

When it's said you cannot question Allah, it's a. fact that we can't dispute. When it's said Allah knows and we know not, it's just the bitter truth. Unless we want to continue deceiving ourselves and eventually fall into kufr Wa iyyadhu billah.
There are many instances that can be given and I Will just point to a few.
1. Allah created us as Human beings and created other creatures like plants, animals, jinn etc. It was not their will that they are created so and they have no objection whatsoever to his judgement. Yes he could have created them as us and created we as them. But he chose to do as he wills and had created accordingly. Just know that Allah knows best why he has done that.
2. Most of us complain today of the sorry situation in which we found ourselves as a country and we wish as though Allah should have created us from countries better than ours. Remember there are countries with worse situation than ours and they wish they are in our shoes. Remember Palestine/ Israel are there fighting everyday. Now if we are to question Allah for that. many will continue in that till the day of judgment. But Allah knows why it's like that.
3. Look around your society there are many people who you are better than in wealth, fame, intelligence etc. There are the beggars all around and there are the physically challenged here and there. They could have been in your shoes and you could have been in theirs. But it's Allah's willing that he had planned it that way. Subhanna Rabbiyal 'Alaa.
4. Imagine the situation of a young man who just got married and the woman got pregnant and while delivering she and the baby passed away. The man is shattered and his life seems hopeless. And this is a person who worships Allah regularly and does what's required of him as a Muslim. Now, where does he start from and who does he blame. I know of a man who some years ago was traveling for Ileya with his wife and only child. This woman got converted to Islam through him. While on the way they had an accident and the woman and only son died instantly while the man sustained serious injury that took many years to heal. Who do we question in this situation?
The fact is that Allah knows and we know nothing. Please let's appreciate Allah irrespective of our agenda and know that all that he's done is for a purpose and he knows best.
May Allah be with us all

onegig: Exactly what the story was trying to teach but man in his ego and shortsightedness would want to always question God's ways. The story is just a reflection that we need to dump the physical brain or intellect and garb the spiritual wear before we maybe able to understand somethings. Not everything that happens or instructed should be seen in black and white but shades of grey.


This link perfectly captures, analysizes things and explains the story.

http://simerg.com/parables/the-parable-of-moses-and-khidr-in-the-holy-qur’an-an-ismaili-interpretation/

i read the link and it explains a lot about knowledge, philosophy etc
That one na another day oooo

But i get you .. really we cannot understand God.. thanks for the link

Sissie.. thanks for the explanation

I was actually more interested in the story itself and not its meaning...

ShehuAba: When it's said you cannot question Allah, it's a. fact that we can't dispute. When it's said Allah knows and we know not, it's just the bitter truth. Unless we want to continue deceiving ourselves and eventually fall into kufr Wa iyyadhu billah.
There are many instances that can be given and I Will just point to a few.
1. Allah created us as Human beings and created other creatures like plants, animals, jinn etc. It was not their will that they are created so and they have no objection whatsoever to his judgement. Yes he could have created them as us and created we as them. But he chose to do as he wills and had created accordingly. Just know that Allah knows best why he has done that.
2. Most of us complain today of the sorry situation in which we found ourselves as a country and we wish as though Allah should have created us from countries better than ours. Remember there are countries with worse situation than ours and they wish they are in our shoes. Remember Palestine/ Israel are there fighting everyday. Now if we are to question Allah for that. many will continue in that till the day of judgment. But Allah knows why it's like that.
3. Look around your society there are many people who you are better than in wealth, fame, intelligence etc. There are the beggars all around and there are the physically challenged here and there. They could have been in your shoes and you could have been in theirs. But it's Allah's willing that he had planned it that way. Subhanna Rabbiyal 'Alaa.
4. Imagine the situation of a young man who just got married and the woman got pregnant and while delivering she and the baby passed away. The man is shattered and his life seems hopeless. And this is a person who worships Allah regularly and does what's required of him as a Muslim. Now, where does he start from and who does he blame. I know of a man who some years ago was traveling for Ileya with his wife and only child. This woman got converted to Islam through him. While on the way they had an accident and the woman and only son died instantly while the man sustained serious injury that took many years to heal. Who do we question in this situation?
The fact is that Allah knows and we know nothing. Please let's appreciate Allah irrespective of our agenda and know that all that he's done is for a purpose and he knows best.
May Allah be with us all

Amin,thanks for this.Definitely, our brain is incomprehensible of His doings.The earlier we accept how we are,the better for us to have peace and tranquility of the body,life and soul.Initially, I was on this path I.e questioning His authority, but nowadays, I know better.So the best is to follow him wholeheartedly and follow what was brought forth to us with sense!!!!!!!!May Allah guide us aright!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pickabeau1:

i read the link and it explains a lot about knowledge, philosophy etc
That one na another day oooo

But i get you .. really we cannot understand God.. thanks for the link

Sissie.. thanks for the explanation

I was actually more interested in the story itself and not its meaning...

Lol.. It may seem too philosophical and confusing but just remove the Arabia words and make do with their english ones and you should be fine.


Shehuaba.... Most of her questions bordered on socio cultural issues except for maybe one or two. I guess her intentions is to seek knowledge and better understanding and not outright confrontation. If she indeed wanted that, she could as well have made up her mind and not ask questions.


@deols

As for the Houris or no Houris for the men, I PERSONALLY believe there's not that much understanding of that aspect. The use of the "male" adjective to qualify the people in most of those verses may not necessarily denote God was explicitly refering to men. Who knows what forms the human body would take after entering paradise? Maybe there won't even be any distinction between male and female or there would be no gender at all. A pointer to this believe by me is the numerous verses which always states this but most times people only interpret it as having only direct effect on earth. Also when people talk of paradise we certainly forget one other part. The Jinns. Who here knows about them or in what forms they come or how this verses will pertain to them?

One of those verses is this..."I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman;each of you is equal to the other(3:195)"

And it concludes here... note the word "creatures" not only the Humankind alone.

"...and Allah means no injustice to any of His creatures." (Qur'an 3 :108).


I don't think there's going to be a differential treatment or preference. It's us that see things as male and female, Jinns and non Jinns, black, white, purple and even green. He sees us as just one thing. His creatures.

Sissie:
I believe most people on this thread explained some of the laws, you either understand
or don't, or its not sufficient enough and you go seek further answers.

Apparently unlike Moses' Teacher, their explanation doesn't hold much water. It would be too easy to start pointing their loopholes but it 's not like i haven't talked these things before.
For instance, read their explanation polygamy, utterly one sided and failed to consider that if polygamy was vital to accomodate men 's polygamous nature, then monogamy was equally vital to secure women 's monogamous nature.
Their take on child marriage fell flat. Even in the 7th century, a 9yrs old is a child still too physically, emotionally, mentally or socially immature for marriage or sex.
See, i don't believe these hadiths stories, you are the ones that do and have to raise the banner of "GOD knows why" whenever u meet doubting thomas.
Even pragmatic orthodox muslims know that Bukhari 's report was a fake & Aisha was well beyond 9 before her marriage.

usermane:

Even pragmatic orthodox muslims know that Bukhari 's report was a fake & Aisha was well beyond 9 before her marriage.

If you were pragmatic. You would know that you don't disprove something which has evidence and is well documented as fake until you have a counter evidence which nullifies earlier beliefs or facts.

Until then, you can hold your peace. That's how pragmatic people work.

onegig:
If you were pragmatic, You would know that you don't disprove something which has evidence and is well documented as fake until you have a counter evidence which nullifies earlier beliefs or facts

These things have been cut and dried. Here:
https://www.nairaland.com/1452472/aisha-9-17-when-she

usermane:
Apparently unlike Moses' Teacher, their explanation doesn't hold much water. It would be too easy to start pointing their loopholes but it 's not like i haven't talked these things before.
For instance, read their explanation polygamy, utterly one sided and failed to consider that if polygamy was vital to accommodate men 's polygamous nature, then monogamy was equally vital to secure women 's monogamous nature.
Their take on child marriage fell flat. Even in the 7th century, a 9yrs old is a child still too physically, emotionally, mentally or socially immature for marriage or sex.
See, i don't believe these hadiths stories, you are the ones that do and have to raise the banner of "GOD knows why" whenever u meet doubting thomas.
Even pragmatic orthodox muslims know that Bukhari 's report was a fake & Aisha was well beyond 9 before her marriage.

usermane:
Apparently unlike Moses' Teacher, their explanation doesn't hold much water. It would be too easy to start pointing their loopholes but it 's not like i haven't talked these things before.
For instance, read their explanation polygamy, utterly one sided and failed to consider that if polygamy was vital to accomodate men 's polygamous nature, then monogamy was equally vital to secure women 's monogamous nature.
Their take on child marriage fell flat. Even in the 7th century, a 9yrs old is a child still too physically, emotionally, mentally or socially immature for marriage or sex.
See, i don't believe these hadiths stories, you are the ones that do and have to raise the banner of "GOD knows why" whenever u meet doubting thomas.
Even pragmatic orthodox muslims know that Bukhari 's report was a fake & Aisha was well beyond 9 before her marriage.

@actually you failed to consider that if polygamy was made to accommodate mens polygamous nature and allowing them marry up to 4, then womens monogamous nature was also considered by allowing them marry just one and not supporting polyandry.

actually they were, how old do you think alexandria the great was? how old was the marriage age bracket of 5 centuries back? what was considered early marriage? the youngest woman to ever give birth was how old?

usermane:
These things have been cut and dried. Here:
https://www.nairaland.com/1452472/aisha-9-17-when-she

Okay seen the link. Hijra was 622 A.D. Asma was born 593A.D. Making her 29 as at then. Do we have any sources that states that Asma was 10 years older?



The only contradictory source i have got as of now in relation to her age is this quote.

So,based on one account of Al-Tabari the numbers show that Ayesha must have born (613CE) three years after the beginning of revelation (610 CE). And yet in
another place Tabari says that
Ayesha was born in Pre-Islamic time (in Jahilliyyah). If she were born in pre-Islamic time (before 610 CE), she would have be at least 14 years old. So, Tabari contradicts himself.

Seems like we are having leads to clearing things. We all know revelation started in 610, and if Aisha were to born pre revelation, then there's in no way she's below 14 let alone 9 at the point of marriage.

But wait , why has there never been an official inquiry to dispute these hadiths? At least to establish the facts. If you can at least help me lay hands on that hadith stating Asma was ten years older then i would really appreciate it. See, that's how pragmatic people work. You give evidence. We aren't close minded.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_151_200/ayesha_age_the_myth_of__a_prover.htm

Just got that link. Yet to verify the hadith sources and how strong they are but from the little i have read seems they are correct and have very concrete evidence to disprove the earlier notion of 9 year old.


Also according to another narrative in Bukhari, Aisha is
reported to have said:

“I was a young girl (jariyah in
Arabic)”when Surah Al-Qamar
was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu’l-tafsir,
Bab QaulihiBal al-sa`atu
Maw`iduhum wa’l-sa`atu adha’ wa amarr).
And it's a known fact that Chapter 54 of the Quran was
revealed eight years before hijrah which means there's no way she would be 9 at the point of marriage when she was a young girl when that Surah was released.

On what grounds can a woman divorce her husband in Islam??

Sissie:

having more than one is definitely more task.

@bolded i want us to discuss this not from the gender aspect but from love/marriage/relationship aspect applicable to both genders. in reality without looking at it from a religious perspective. Lots of men and women cheat on their partners, infact this so rampant in many societies that it has become a norm especially for men. how many men have had just 1 sex partner all their lives? are they the majority or minority?
if in reality if a man TRULY loves his woman he would only be with her that he could not lay eyes on another, then that means true love is almost unattainable for many, and they would never experience such love, not a minute few but a large percentage. what then stops them from lusting?

if his love for that particular woman is so strong he could not lay eyes on another what happen when he loses his spouse to death does he remain single forever?

do you believe love conquers all, we only love 1 person "the one", and that theirs only 1 soulmate?

I will soon come to answer your question Sissie. My phone is at its last breathe

I tried to close this thread o but I dont know what admin changed to make it impossible.

Sissie:

having more than one is definitely more task.

@bolded i want us to discuss this not from the gender aspect but from love/marriage/relationship aspect applicable to both genders. in reality without looking at it from a religious perspective. Lots of men and women cheat on their partners, infact this so rampant in many societies that it has become a norm especially for men. how many men have had just 1 sex partner all their lives? are they the majority or minority?
if in reality if a man TRULY loves his woman he would only be with her that he could not lay eyes on another, then that means true love is almost unattainable for many, and they would never experience such love, not a minute few but a large percentage. what then stops them from lusting?

if his love for that particular woman is so strong he could not lay eyes on another what happen when he loses his spouse to death does he remain single forever?

do you believe love conquers all, we only love 1 person "the one", and that theirs only 1 soulmate?

Herein lies the problem.

Women and men are both to blame for infidelity. Let me expand upon what I am saying.

Marriages have become a system that is extremely artificial where people are marrying one another based on career, fiscal incentives (money this money that), physical incentives (lust of the heart), and all this rubbish. People are not marrying based on an "I love you basis" anymore. We are in that age where money has truly become a factor that is used as a discriminatory factor in whether or not a woman should marry a man. Women, naturally are attracted to powerful men (albeit powerful ones).

What I am saying is that most powerful, rich and greedy men are heartless and could care less about those suffering. If a man only cares for himself and his money, what makes you think he would care about his wife? However, it is the woman's fault for choosing the man based on his riches and the tangibles he possesses. Such men are definitely not going to care about the wife.

The good men have been brushed aside by women, and yet women always complain about never being able to find good men. A lot of is their own fault in their quest to seek material things and riches. She wants a huge house, she wants a nice car, she wants to be able to go and shop so she can have the most expensive clothes and parfums. That's the kind of artificial world we live in. Most women don't give nice gentlemen the light of day before it is too late. Thus, why I said it is both mens and womens fault in this particular scenario.

I will use a personal experience where I was obviously joking. This happened about a year ago. A woman asked me if I had a car. As someone who is a Network engineer certainly I do, but I was not going to tell her that, so I told her, no I have a camel instead. The next thing I knew, there was no one on the other end of the phone

So herein lies the question, will you as a woman in your pursuit for true love pursue a man for his riches or for his heart? Be honest with yourself on this one. You may say heart, but actions often speak louder than words. Is a man's character most important to you? Remember there is no such a thing as a perfect man out there.

A man may never have had se.x before and may be waiting on the right woman, but such a man may not possess the Lexus and the grandiose house that you may seek. However, he may have a heart that soothes and calms you and shows his willingness to protect you. On the other end of the spectrum, and may Allah forbid this for any woman, though if she chooses to follow a man based on riches alone, that's her own fault. On the other end of the spectrum, do you seek a man who has riches, acts like a jerk towards others when flaunting what he has, shows no signs o being humble and is always boasting about what he has. Some women mistake such a man for a confident man which is complete bull crap. How can such an obnoxious person be confident? Yet you see this rubbish everyday where women mistake nice/kind gentlemen as wimps/weak men and arrogant, nasty-minded men as heroes and confident men.

Like my favourite musician Ali Farka Toure said in his song "Ketine" which he sang in Fulfulde, when you translate it to English, he said that "the truth today belongs to the Selfish and rich greedy men, and the physically beautiful women." I'm very scared for this world.

deols: I tried to close this thread o but I dont know what admin changed to make it impossible.

Y do u wantu close it?
Am njoyin it cos av sincerely learnt a whole lot 4rm here...leave it joor!!!

Sissie:
@actually you failed to consider that if polygamy was made to accommodate mens polygamous nature and allowing them marry up to 4, then womens monogamous nature was also considered by allowing them marry just one and not supporting [u]polyandry[/b]

i mean't monogamy in the sense of her being the only wife to a single husband.

actually they were, how old do you think alexandria the great was? how old was the marriage age bracket 5 centuries ago

This is not you, Sissie. Men of earlier times did not mature as quickly as that. If am wrong, the onus is on you to table proofs.

These hadith refutes the claims that a 9 yr old at that time was mature for marriage.

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
Sahih Muslim 8:3311
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.
Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151

Only immature persons play with toys.

usermane:
i mean't monogamy in the sense of her being the only wife to a single husband.

This is not you, Sissie. Men of earlier times did not mature as quickly as that. If am wrong, the onus is on you to table proofs.

These hadith refutes the claims that a 9 yr old at that time was mature for marriage.

Only immature persons play with toys.

but that monogamy is allowed, polygamy isn't compulsory, shes allowed to state it clearly. polygamy should be practiced by men/women who like it or are indifferent and not imposed on any one. its a case of marrying your type i know lots of muslim men who are not interested at all in polygyny, i have met more who are not interested in it than those who are.

My post about alexandria the great is to explain how that times was different than ours, its on record that in history 19th and 20th century is the latest recorded time for marriages, usermane you should know this. So what we term early marriage this century isn't what was termed early marriage, now 13 is considered early and wrong while Mary gave birth at that age bracket and wasn't frowned upon. that is why i asked you what was the marriage age bracket over 5 centuries ago?

Not only immature people play with toys, I had friends in uni who played with teddy bears, even grown up men play with toy cars and build using lego.

Either Aisha was 9 or 18 when she married the prophet, i do know one thing she was matured enough for marriage, if she wasn't the marriage won't have taken place and the kuffars of that time would have used it against him.

@fulaman i understand your points but you failed to answer my questions, your theory is based on Men who are rich and women who seek riches how about those who don't fall in this category, although that is one of the reasons why men/women cheat what of the other reasons. what of poor people who cheat?

if there is only one woman or man to fall deeply in love with not even looking at any other how about if he/she dies.

do you believe we only love "the one"

....

Sissie: @fulaman i understand your points but you failed to answer my questions, your theory is based on Men who are rich and women who seek riches how about those who don't fall in this category, although that is one of the reasons why men/women cheat what of the other reasons. what of poor people who cheat?

if there is only one woman or man to fall deeply in love with not even looking at any other how about if he/she dies.

do you believe we only love "the one"

I probably didn't explain myself deep enough then.

I believe we only love "the one", however, sometimes "the one" may not love you back the way you love her/him.

People cheat because they are not happy. If they were happy they would never cheat no matter what. Their love and admiration for that person would be so much to act as a firewall from anyone else who seeks them.

I'm not poor, neither am I rich, I'm just well off so I'll use an example with myself.

If I find the woman who I truly love with all my heart, my mind and heart are only set on her I wouldn't be able to even think about another woman. That is what true love is about. No matter the circumstance, no temptation would exist to lure me away from my future wife, that is how deep love is and should be. I wouldn't even be able to think of another woman let alone set eyes on one.

However, if I am in a relationship where I didn't take the time to find a woman I truly love, I might be more prone to cheat/commit adultery. I would be angry at how all my life I never had more than one woman and that it was not fair. I would have so much regret that I should have been like my peers who had their share of women. I would start to have deep anger within me. That is why it is so necessary to only marry someone you truly love.

Let us say a man and woman loves each other equally, and the love was so deep that nothing could come between them. However, you used an example where something unfortunate happens to one of them (Allah yafumo) may Allah forbid something like that. For me personally, if placed in such a situation where the woman of my dreams were to pass away, I would not know how to cope. I won't lie, I would be in tears on a daily basis, I would be extremely distraught. When you love someone that love is deep. It is like one loving their parents and siblings (though a different kind of love). There is a difference between caring about someone and loving someone. It's unfortunate that people do not live forever. Our lifespans on earth are quite short.

I believe that if someone passes away, and you truly love(d) that person you will not be able to be able to get over them or forget about them easily to want to move onto another relationship. I personally don't know if I would ever be able to have another relationship or open my heart to another person if my one and only were to pass away. We are supposed to love our loved ones till the day we die. No exceptions! Love is unconditional.

.

I was drawn to this thread because I have some of the same questions and concerns. I started reading and even copied a few quotes in readiness for a reply and some questions of my own. I only made it about halfway through the thread before I just felt too depressed to continue.


How is someone like me, who is new and knows little about Islam supposed to continue struggling to understand and assimilate, when people who have been Muslims their whole lives have fears and doubts.


Sometimes I think I would have been better off staying away from the Islam Section. Fulaman198 is making some sense, but even so I feel like I've all but lost the great hope I had in Islam. It saddens me, because I know I felt the rightness of it so strongly at first.

onegig: The same thing she's complaining about. It's more easier for the men. Like the laws give them the leeway to misbehave. Why would it be a woman's choice to divorce? Why not compel the man to stick to one wife alone. Why give him options when she has none and has to endure such. She can choose to stay or leave i.e divorce.

Is divorce for the lady an equal and justifiable comparison with what the man gets?

He gets a new bride and continues life as if nothing happened while we all know how hard it is for a divorcee(the woman) to remarry and continue her life without hitch coupled with the social stigmatisation associated with such.

Thus ruining her life if she leaves and still ruining her life and making her pass through hell if she chooses to stay.

Islam preaches a just system but do you think this is just?


This i think is the issue she has and truth is i share most of this. The concept of justice as regards both genders.

tbaba1234: Alhamdulilah,

I hope I can help us put things in proper contexts and maybe clarify some issues. I would also advise that we are cautious with our words, in sha Allah. I cringe at some statements. That was why I wanted a private conversation. May Allah protect us.

I would start with confused issues, failures of muslim communities and failures of muslim individuals.

Islam is a complete system of life with nothing missing. The social laws in Islam is one of the areas, I enjoyed the most because it is so beautiful.

I will start with a quote from onegig



The above is essentially a failure of the muslim community. Women got divorced all the time during the time of the prophet and never lacked suitors at all. Allah commanded us to get the single married amongst us, This also means, the muslim community has to create an enabling environment for widows and divorcees , both male and female to get married.

Marry off the single among you and those of your male and female slaves who are fit [for marriage]. If they are poor, God will provide for them from His bounty: God’s bounty is infinite and He is all knowing. Surah 24:32

If there is a stigma amongst muslims getting married, then we should be looking within. We should be dismantling the stigma, the messenger married widows and divorcees, the best of muslims did..

We disobey Allah by creating stigma and then blame him for the difficulties.

If any widow or divorcee of the muslims suffers, we all share a collective blame. Allah will question us for our community failures.

When Allah talks about divorce, he specifically makes a statement that really hits home for me

........ Do not make a mockery of God’s revelations...... ; (Surah 2:231)

We abuse the laws and permissions of Allah and blame Allah. SubhanAllah. Even hadiths are taken out of context to justify abuse. That is why, like I have always said, we need more female scholars in the Ummah.

Islam preaches a just system, the question is are we living by Islam.

Assalam Aleikum tbaba1234

Pardon me but you totally ignored the reason for the divorce in the first place. The bolded was made in response to men divorcing because they want to get rid of one of the four to bring in a new wife.


You are talking about how Muslim society should not shun these women and they should have the opportunity to remarry. They likely didn't want the divorce in the first place.

This is a prime example of what deols is talking about. Somehow you've decided (maybe unknowingly) to relieve the man of any fault here and come at the problem after the fact.

"You said, "We should be dismantling the stigma". So rather than deal with the man who is trading in the older car for the new sporty model, you figure we should just make it easier for the discarded woman to remarry?

andromida: On what grounds can a woman divorce her husband in Islam??

She's allowed to divorce him for different reasons I.e abuse, If he doesn't satisfy her sexually, if he doesn't take care of his responsibility, if he marries another and she doesn't want polygyny, if she doesn't find him attractive and fear she might commit sin due to it I.e adultery, if they are incompatible etc.

ameenahz: I understand deols. And i'll be honest, i feel the same way some times too. My only recompense is that the ultimate reward is in the hereafter, waiting for us all in shaa Allah. Whether our men 'behave' or not.

deols:

Wallahi I was very young when I learnt of the numerous virgins for men in jannah. But by then, I already detested polygyny and when the ustadh described how the women of the earth would be in a better state than the houris, I thought to myself that 'I didnt want a polygyny on earth, why would I want it in aljannah'.

A lady even said that maybe God would make us all men and we would then all get the houris. But no. The prophet didnt say that. It is explained that the Men would get the houris and we would have the same men we had on earth. Doesnt seem endearing.

These two posts mirror my thoughts, and make me wonder what does "paradise" offer women really?....other than NOT falling into the punishment of hellfire? Somehow it just sounds like the lesser of two evils.

aishaquest:

Assalam Aleikum tbaba1234

Pardon me but you totally ignored the reason for the divorce in the first place. The bolded was made in response to men divorcing because they want to get rid of one of the four to bring in a new wife.


You are talking about how Muslim society should not shun these women and they should have the opportunity to remarry. They likely didn't want the divorce in the first place.

This is a prime example of what deols is talking about. Somehow you've decided (maybe unknowingly) to relieve the man of any fault here and come at the problem after the fact.

"You said, "We should be dismantling the stigma". So rather than deal with the man who is trading in the older car for the new sporty model, you figure we should just make it easier for the discarded woman to remarry?

Wa aleikum salam,

How are you?

A man in a monogamous relationship could also decide to get rid of the wife for filmsy reasons.

Infact, a woman can divorce a man just because she likes him no more and staying with him could 'hurt' her religion.

There is a narration where a woman does that:

the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays ibn Shammaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not find any fault with Thaabit ibn Qays in his character or his religious commitment, but I do not want to commit any act of kufr after becoming a Muslim.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her, “Will you give back his garden?” Because he had given her a garden as her mahr. She said, “Yes.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Thaabit: “Take back your garden, and divorce her.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5273).

Divorcing for weak reasons are not new and you can't force people to be together.

In some instances, men pay compensation but that is about it.