JJYOU:

did you see this coming?

see wat coming?

Lady and others who were a bit mystified by my last response, from a strictly biblical perspective, let me break it down (though TV01 already did much justice to it):

Marriage between Christian and Christian = Biblical & Good

Marriage between Christian and non-christian = Unbiblical and bad

Marriage between non-christian and non-christian = Fine, since they're not followers of the bible, they're not bound by its laws

Marriage between 2 non-christians (fine), then ONE converts[b] DURING [/b] the marriage = Fine, as along as the "unbelieving partner" wants to stay. Which is the situation 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 is speaking about.


Lady,
you say the bible doesn't explicitly say "don't marry a non-christian. Just outta curiosity, how do YOU interpret the verses below & what is your interpretation of "Yoked together"? :

2 Cor 6
  Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

  The CEM version puts it this way:
Are light and darkness the same? Is Christ a friend of Satan? Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don't? Do idols belong in the temple of God?

To appreciate the complexity of the question, discussants should also explore not just before marriage but in marriage. A christian marries a christian and 10 years later , one of them converts to islam, Budhisms or New age. What happens? A moslem marries a christian and 15 years later the moslem converts to christianity. What happens? A christian marries a moslem and 20 years later, the moslem converts to christianity and the christain converts to islam. What happens?  These are not just hypothetical questions for if one is old enough and is observant, one would have observed several cases of change of faith by one or both couples after years of married life.

m_nwankwo:

To appreciate the complexity of the question, discussants should also explore not just before marriage but in marriage. A christian marries a christian and 10 years later , one of them converts to islam, Budhisms or New age. What happens? A moslem marries a christian and 15 years later the moslem converts to christianity. What happens? A christian marries a moslem and 20 years later, the moslem converts to christianity and the christain converts to islam. What happens? These are not just hypothetical questions for if one is old enough and is observant, one would have observed several cases of change of faith by one or both couples after years of married life.

The question of who and what a Christian is must be addressed before we can give adequate and conclusive answers to the poster's enquiries. And by the way, don't forget to include what will happen to your brethren in the Grail message if one of them is converted to Christ or has this been covered under the New Age or Bhudism combo?

OLAADEGBU:

The question of who and what a Christian is must be addressed before we can give adequate and conclusive answers to the poster's enquiries. And by the way, don't forget to include what will happen to your brethren in the Grail message if one of them is converted to Christ or has this been covered under the New Age or Bhudism combo?

Happy new year Olaadegbu. You can define a christain according to the bible and my questions still hold. Have you not seen christains as defined by the bible whose marriages have collapsed? Have you not seen christains as defined by your bible who converted to another faith after years of marriage. I did not exclude any theists including adherents of Grail Message. Besides an adherent of the Grail Message cannot be converted to Christ but may be converted to christianity. On a lighter note, I have years of practical experience on these so called inter faith marriage.  I am ahherent of the Grail Message and I am happily married to a hard core born again christian. My wife is an angel! She gave me no chance when I approached her for marriage because of what she thinks of the Grail Message but then God opened her eyes and she could see clearly that we are meant for each other. She is still a hard core born again christian and I am happy with that. Cheers

JeSoul:

Lady and others who were a bit mystified by my last response, from a strictly biblical perspective, let me break it down (though TV01 already did much justice to it):

Marriage between Christian and Christian = Biblical & Good

Marriage between Christian and non-christian = Unbiblical and bad

Marriage between non-christian and non-christian = Fine, since they're not followers of the bible, they're not bound by its laws

Marriage between 2 non-christians (fine), then ONE converts[b] DURING [/b] the marriage = Fine, as along as the "unbelieving partner" wants to stay. Which is the situation 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 is speaking about.


Lady,
you say the bible doesn't explicitly say "don't marry a non-christian. Just out of curiosity, how do YOU interpret the verses below & what is your interpretation of "Yoked together"? :

2 Cor 6
  Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

  The CEM version puts it this way:
Are light and darkness the same? Is Christ a friend of Satan? Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don't? Do idols belong in the temple of God?

many thanks

busybein:

see what coming?

this question

busybein do you want to get married to a moslem? or are you presently enjoying a moslem man's bulala?

i was feeling someone was going to bring it up though not that crude

JJYOU:


this question i was feeling someone was going to bring it up though not that crude

hahaha JJYOU my dear,i already had my answer written down and saved,cos i know smone was going to ask me dat qstion

@jesoul

Marriage between 2 non-christians (fine), [/b]then ONE converts DURING the marriage = Fine, as along as the "unbelieving partner" wants to stay. Which is the situation 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 is speaking about.

not completely true,it did not say "2" unbelievers,rather it was talking about "1" ,one marrying an unbeliever and d unbeliever wanting to live wt that person, read it again

1 Corinthians 7:12-16

12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. [b]14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy

read it clearly again,for it also said the unbeliever is been sanctified by d other believing partner,so my dear,there is a misquotation smwhere

2 Cor 6
  Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

hope u don't have unbelievers has friends?if so,please stay away from them

cox u r beginning to mis understand d bible,if we r not to get along wt them,then how can we preach to them into converting and worshipiing d God that we serve

d last time i checked,pastors stil preach to prostitutes till date,pastors preach to native doctors,so wats ur point dear?

m_nwankwo:

Happy new year Olaadegbu. You can define a christain according to the bible and my questions still hold. Have you not seen christains as defined by the bible whose marriages have collapsed? Have you not seen christains as defined by your bible who converted to another faith after years of marriage. I did not exclude any theists including adherents of Grail Message. Besides an adherent of the Grail Message cannot be converted to Christ but may be converted to christianity. On a lighter note, I have years of practical experience on these so called inter faith marriage. I am ahherent of the Grail Message and I am happily married to a hard core born again christian. My wife is an angel! She gave me no chance when I approached her for marriage because of what she thinks of the Grail Message but then God opened her eyes and she could see clearly that we are meant for each other. She is still a hard core born again christian and I am happy with that. Cheers

I also wish you a happy, inspiring and enlightening new year in this year 2009 A.D.

Can you tell us your definition of who the Bible says a Christian is or rather who are the "Christians" as defined by the Bible? And while you are still at that, can you tell us what you mean by conversion? It is good to hear that you are happily married to a "hard core born again Christian", but can you tell us whether she agrees with your doctrine of reincarnation?, big bang and evolutionary theories? Do you both pray together in the name of the Lord Jesus? In other words, can two walk together except they agree? Do you both have Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour?

Answers to these and many questions will surfice us for now.

Busy,
  pardon the question but are you a christian?

busybein:

@jesoul

not completely true,it did not say "2" unbelievers,rather it was talking about "1" ,one marrying an unbeliever and d unbeliever wanting to live wt that person, read it again

read it clearly again,for it also said the unbeliever is been sanctified by d other believing partner,so my dear,there is a misquotation smwhere

  You're choosing to read that verse in colored glasses. It starts off by saying: "If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her".
- "If a brother has a wife" . . . It is already established here that the two people are already married. Not that the brother is going to get a wife who is not christian.

- Furthermore if you read down to the 2nd last verse in the chapter, it says a woman must marry a christian: "A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord."

  Do tell me why God will allow marriage with a non-christian in verse 14 but not in verse 39?

hope u don't have unbelievers has friends?if so,please stay away from them

lol . . . I have tons of non-christian friends whom I love dearly and pray for them to attain a saving knowledge of Christ.
But will I "YOKE" myself with them? No. Will I join their hand in marriage? No. Please take a sec & look up the dictionary definition of "Yoke".
You did not give your interpretation of 2 Cor 7 about not being unequally yoked with unbelievers, care to explain what that verse means?

cox u r beginning to mis understand d bible,if we r not to get along wt them,then how can we preach to them into converting and worshipiing d God that we serve

d last time i checked,pastors stil preach to prostitutes till date,pastors preach to native doctors,so wats ur point dear?

  And if you've read my other responses you'll see that I've said several times now, marriage with the world is where you draw the line. Where did I say we should not get along with them? 
There's nothing wrong with being friends with, witnessing to, associating with, sharing things with our friends from the world. That's what Jesus did while He was here. Marriage (and other yoke-type situations) is where the bible says NO. Simple.

JJYOU:

many thanks

OLAADEGBU:

I also wish you a happy, inspiring and enlightening new year in this year 2009 A.D.

Can you tell us your definition of who the Bible says a Christian is or rather who are the "Christians" as defined by the Bible? And while you are still at that, can you tell us what you mean by conversion? It is good to hear that you are happily married to a "hard core born again Christian", but can you tell us whether she agrees with your doctrine of reincarnation?, big bang and evolutionary theories? Do you both pray together in the name of the Lord Jesus? In other words, can two walk together except they agree? Do you both have Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour?

Answers to these and many questions will surfice us for now.

You ask so many questions and I will answer them briefly. I do not want to enter into a definition of a christian according to the bible because that will involve me quoting biblical passages which I do not do as a personal rule. But I know a bible believing christian because I was once one. For example you are a bible believing christian. My wife do not believe in reincarnation. She does not accept the theories of evolution and big bang. We do not pray together as her understanding of prayer is different from mine. She recognises Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour and so do I. Agreement between two people lie in the qualities of their  souls and not the earthly religion they profess. Gold is gold wheather it is in the hand of a prince or a begger. Cheers

jesoul lets cut the long story short,please tell me,where it is written in d bible thous shall not  marry an unbeliever?

2.d bible is very complex,and needs deep understanding,if a man has an unbeliever as a wife can as well mean a man marrying an unbeliever from d onset

I'm yet to see "converts DURING marriage" in dat same passage

busybein:

jesoul lets cut the long story short,please tell me,where it is written in d bible thous shall not marry an unbeliever?

2.d bible is very complex,and needs deep understanding,if a man has an unbeliever as a wife can as well mean a man marrying an unbeliever from d onset

I'm yet to see "converts DURING marriage" in that same passage

Unfortunately it is in the bible . . . its not just put in "thou shalt nots".

I have to go on a limb here and say Jesoul is right.

davidylan:

Unfortunately it is in the bible . . . its not just put in "thou shalt nots".

I have to go on a limb here and say Jesoul is right.

she might be right to u,but to me,shes not

busybein:

she might be right to u,but to me,shes not

i think Jesoul's explained it in detail. What is your alternative viewpoint on the issue?

davidylan:

i think Jesoul's explained it in detail. What is your alternative viewpoint on the issue?

hahahahahahahhaah sorry hon,i don't really believe in typing long stories,people can as well type and type and stilll not be on d right track

Marriage between 2 non-christians (fine), then ONE converts DURING the marriage = Fine, as along as the "unbelieving partner" wants to stay. Which is the situation 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 is speaking about.

this were her words,please read that same corinthians and tell me if its all about 2 non xtians/believers getting/staying married

@OP
Situations like these are really scary
I would suggest you look for another girl, if the girl's parent is already against it then i'll say let it go

busybein:

hahahahahahahhaah sorry hon,i don't really believe in typing long stories,people can as well type and type and stilll not be on d right track
this were her words,please read that same corinthians and tell me if its all about 2 non xtians/believers getting/staying married

Its important to note this in 1 Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:

So we know Paul was giving his own opinion not God's perfect will. I think we shld also note that God has both a perfect and a permissible will . . .

God's perfect will is stated very simply - 2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

It is pertinent to note that the bible does not continously hammer on a subject unless it were important . . .

- why was the bible specific about the women Cain married?

- what was it about Esau's wives that displeased his parents and why was Jacob specifically ordered to marry from a certain people?

- Why was Abraham so concerned about who Isaac would marry?

- Why did Moses command that jews not marry foreign women?

- Why did Ezra command the putting away of foreign wives during the rededication of the temple?

- what was it about Solomon's wives that God was not pleased with?

- Why did Balak show Balaam the jews with foreign wives as an excuse to curse them?

. . . and many many more examples . . . it is worth considering why the bible talks so endlessly about marriage. Surely there must be more to it than simply hanging on to 1 Cor 7:12.

Its important to note this in 1 Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:
So we know Paul was giving his own opinion not God's perfect will.

k then,y don't we this regard pauls words/roleplay in d bible since he was giving out his own opinons smtimes and not Gods

Busy,
   you did not answer the simple questions I asked you:

- In verse 39 it says explicity a woman must marry a christian: "A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord."

>>>>  Do tell me why marriage with a non-christian will be allowed in verse 12 but not in verse 39? <<<<

  And please give us your interpretation of 2 Cor 6
  Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?
Gracias.

davidylan:

Its important to note this in 1 Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:

So we know Paul was giving his own opinion not God's perfect will. I think we shld also note that God has both a perfect and a permissible will . . .

God's perfect will is stated very simply - 2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

It is pertinent to note that the bible does not continously hammer on a subject unless it were important . . .

- why was the bible specific about the women Cain married?

- what was it about Esau's wives that displeased his parents and why was Jacob specifically ordered to marry from a certain people?

- Why was Abraham so concerned about who Isaac would marry?

- Why did Moses command that jews not marry foreign women?

- Why did Ezra command the putting away of foreign wives during the rededication of the temple?

- what was it about Solomon's wives that God was not pleased with?

- Why did Balak show Balaam the jews with foreign wives as an excuse to curse them?

. . . and many many more examples . . . it is worth considering why the bible talks so endlessly about marriage. Surely there must be more to it than simply hanging on to 1 Cor 7:12.

  Thanks for pointing those out. Busy refuses to look at 2 Cor 6 as definitive word from God about marriage and unions in general between christians and non-christians.

busybein:

k then,y don't we this regard pauls words/roleplay in d bible since he was giving out his own opinons smtimes and not Gods

did you read my note on why God was so particular about who the jews married all through the old testament?

davidylan:

did you read my note on why God was so particular about who the jews married all through the old testament?

and did u answer my qstion as regards pauls word in d bible,and what jesoul said about it

  And please give us your interpretation of 2 Cor 6
  Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?
Gracias.

We must be very careful in the way that we apply the Scriptures. The passage above does not discuss the marriage bond, marriage is not found in the context,if so show me jesoul,tell me if its talking about marriage here,why get connected wt unbelievers in d first place as friends?

with the way i see it,some of the members of the church at Corinth were at a close association with Idolaters.hence that scripture(i stand to be corrected)

to me its more like not forsaking ur way and follwing their own way

i see ur points anyways,but I'm not totally convinced,if anybody can convince me,then I'm ready to learn

I don't see why they don't generalize that passage to everday life, but then want to nitpick it when it comes to bonding and the married life.

H2O2:

I don't see why they don't generalize that passage to everday life, but then want to nitpick it when it comes to bonding and the married life.

 
  Because it says do not YOKE yourself. Yoke means to join, bond, unite etc. . . Duh.

H2O2:

I don't see why they don't generalize that passage to everday life, but then want to nitpick it when it comes to bonding and the married life.

thank you,this is my point exactly,if believers should not get connected wt unbelievers then why do we they have friends who r unbelievers

why do they think  this particular scripture is based only in marriage,why?

JeSoul:


Because it says do not YOKE yourself. Yoke means to join, bond, unite etc. . . Duh.

That's saying a lot . . . . DUHHH!

Okay Busy, if you don't want to see 2 Cor as regarding marriage though YOKE means to join, bond, link, unite etc . . . then that's your perogative.

What about my other question?

JeSoul:

Busy,
  you did not answer the simple questions I asked you:

- In verse 39 it says explicity a woman must marry a christian: "A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord."

>>>>  Do tell me why marriage with a non-christian will be allowed in verse 12 but not in verse 39? <<<<

And I don't think 1 Corinthians can be more explicit than it already is.
The passage clearly tells you that "if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her".

If you need further clarification consult your dictionary.

Verse 14:
For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband.

JeSoul:


Because it says do not YOKE yourself. Yoke means to join, bond, unite etc. . . Duh.

Okay Jesoul, since you want to get technical, are you insinuating that joining, bonding, uniting etc only occur in marriage situations

busybein:

and did u answer my qstion as regards pauls word in d bible,and what jesoul said about it

I answered it when i made mention of perfect and permissive will of God. Here is an example to clarify it -

Matthew 19:3The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Verse 6 and the later part of verse 8 (from the begining it was not so) makes it abundantly clear about God's perfect will for marriage - once married let no man (or court injunction) put asunder. However Moses went ahead and instituted a writing for divorce and God tacitly allowed it for the reason given in verse 8 (for the hardness of your hearts).

Now apply the same to 1 Cor 7:12 . . . Paul was not nullifying 2 Cor 6:14 . . . he knew that there were several new christians who were still married to unsaved wives and some who were probably about to get married to unsaved women. Christianity wasnt going to suddenly start breaking marriages apart because some (in error) had gone ahead and married women who were not spiritually one with them.

However God's perfect will is that a genuine born again man or woman, in line with 2 Cor 6:14, be not yoked/spiritually bound in matrimony with an unbeliever. If you have done so in error . . . God wont cast you out. But if you WILLFULLY choose to marry another who is not saved . . . na you know.

busybein:

We must be very careful in the way that we apply the Scriptures. The passage above does not discuss the marriage bond, marriage is not found in the context,if so show me jesoul,tell me if its talking about marriage here,why get connected wt unbelievers in d first place as friends?

that is why i wanted us to go back to the old testament and ask ourselves an important question. What was it about marriage that God would be so particular as to where the woman or man must come from? Why was Esau's marriage a sorrow to Isaac?
Why would Abraham, on his death bed, beg his servant to make sure he found a particular woman for Isaac?

we shld be careful how we apply scripture but we must also understand that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let a matter be established.

JeSoul:

 
  Because it says do not YOKE yourself. Yoke means to join, bond, unite etc. . .  Duh.

u keep hitting on yoke,but other bible translations said dis

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (Contemporary English Version)

The Temple of the Living God
14Stay away from people who are not followers of the Lord! Can someone who is good get along with someone who is evil? Are light and darkness the same? 15Is Christ a friend of Satan? [a] Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don't? 16Do idols belong in the temple of God? We are the temple of the living God, as God himself says, "I will live with these people

  and walk among them.

  I will be their God,

  and they will be

  my people."

   17The Lord also says,

  "Leave them and stay away!

  Don't touch anything

  that isn't clean.

  Then I will welcome you

   18and be your Father.

  You will be my sons

  and my daughters,

  as surely as I am God,

  the All-Powerful."

i will answer ur qstion in a minute