EzioAuditore

I wanted to just ignore you but it seems the matter keeps coming up and so I have decided to address this issue once and for all.

Nonsense!

You asked a question and I answered you. Why should you ignore it?

People tend to forget that Abraham and Ishmael both preached monotheism to ARAbS and as such you may find some good deeds diluted in madness amongst the pagans. You wanted to know

Lie! Lie!! Lie!!!

Abraham was never among the Arabs. Both biblical and islamic sources confirm that.

Although Ishmael was not in Arabia, but even if he was there, he was too young to know the religion of Abraham. His mother, Hagai was from Egypt who were pagans. That was why the whole of Arabs were into paganism and that led to the building of Kaaba for their 360 idols.

Check for more on this: https://www.nairaland.com/2279859/true-story-abrahams-journey-mecca

I know you have phobia for clicking a link.

Who Allah is? Mind you Allah means God in Arabic but let's just ignore that for now
You said the pagans prayed towards Makkah
You wanted to know about Safana and marwa
And finally you wanted to know about ihram.

Nobody needs your lies on them. The hadiths I cited are clear enough.

We know that the word “Allah” was in use before the time of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). If we read Ar-Raheeq ul-Makhtum we realise that the early Arabs did believe in Allah as the Only God.

Let's have your source that is verifiable. What you said here is your own formulation to cover up. You cannot just vomit lies and expect people to swallow it. Smh!

This is dated all the way back to the time of Prophet Ishmael (p) who resided in Makkah (Mecca) and learned Arabic as well as settling there

Look at another baby lie here. Learn Arabic from who when a hadith said nobody was in Mecca when Ishmael and his mother got there.

Again, let's have your source, verifiable.

“Most of the Arabs had complied with the call of Ishmael and professed the religion of his father Abraham. They worshipped Allah, professed His Oneness and followed His religion...”

Yet Muhammad had to fight fierce wars to establish islam where people were already muslims. Black lie.

What is your verifiable proof?

This shows that Allah was known as the Only God, just like the Muslims believe Him to be. Indeed Abraham and Ishmael (pbut) are considered to be Muslims, i.e. those who had submitted to the Will of the Only God, Allah.

So Abraham was a muslim in Arabia where he didn't stay. Keep lying!

The issue of paganism came into the equation as the Arabs forgot this pure monotheism which was taught by Ishmael and his followers. The idolatry was originated from the actions of a man named Amr bin Luhai, he was known as a devoted and righteous man, well respected by his peers. However, after a trip away from Mecca he saw idol-worship in Syria.

Where do you get your fake story. Some people just sat down and think of how to defend islam without authoritative backing. They wrong their own souls.

So you can see where the name Abd-Allah came from, and you can see why practices like ihram, praying towards the Kaaba, fasting on Muharram, safa and marwa etc may have originated from. Just like there are christian and Jewish practices that are similar to that of muslims.

Don't deceive yourself. allahh himself confirms what they were doing was a pagan practice:

[Quran 2:158 Pickthal] Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware.

SUMMARY

Everything you stated are formulated lies by some muslims, who could not provide verifiable proof.

@truthman2012; you are a joke at least claiming the bold in () indicated Allah says its paganic to observe the rites of hajj/umra. God you this dude is frustrating. maybe you are frustrated enough to be this openly dishonest. subhannaAllah.

RoyPCain:
@truthman2012; you are a joke at least claiming the bold in () indicated Allah says its paganic to observe the rites of hajj/umra. God you this dude is frustrating. maybe you are frustrated enough to be this openly dishonest. subhannaAllah.

Check your quran, Pickthal translation. Others have changed the true translation of the arabic text.

Muslims will keep re-translating the quran till it will no more tally with the arabic text or possibly change the arabic text.

There are some hadiths I had once seen on online hadith website which are no more there. I don't know why muslims will forever be deceiving themselves. It is terrible.

Rilwayne001:


What are you saying here



And where in the bible did yahweh ever say that jesus will come from David through Nathan?

NB: I have where it says he would come from David through Solomon.




What is wrong about it please? kindly point it out.



Perhaps luke made an error, or that the bible god lied that jesus would come from david through solomon. can't you see the lie?



You need some schooling bro.

bring it on.

you ask if Jesus was a descended of Joseph which is wrong, how can Joseph be the descended of Jesus when Joseph is the legal father of Jesus? That not the issue now.

Stop reading the bible like the way you read the quran,the context where it say Jesus will come from the descended of solomon, it was reffering to the royal line. The major book were the prophecy of Jesus coming from the descended of David did not say only solomon.it's from the book of isaiah;
Isaiah 7:13, "And he said,
Hear ye now, O HOUSE of David." it including all the children of David and Nathan was one of them

Why are you sounding like someone who dosent understand English? Matthew add solomon because matthew talk about Jesus royal line, solomon is the rightful hair to David throne, and Luke did not add solomon because Luke trace his biological line, infacte Luke add some gentile.Luke, writing for Gentile readers, carries his ancestral list back to Adam, the progenitor of both Jews and Gentiles, in order to prove Christ to be the Saviour of both Jews and Gentile.

Rilwayne001:


Lols. I think you need to take a chill pill.

Bring foward your prove from the Quran where Allah is refered to as a moon god or black stone god?

no straw please.

Again sire, do you read what wikipedia wrote about yahweh?

Why did Muhammad express a desire to
pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a
pagan shrine? At the time when Surah
2:144 was revealed to change the Qiblah
from Jerusalem to Mecca, the Ka’ba was
still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan
idols. Why would Allah permit his
Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it
was still polluted with 360 pagan idols?
The command given in the Qur’an to
change the Qiblah predates by years the
conquest of Mecca. Those idols were
destroyed only after the conquest of
Mecca. Thus, during all those intervening
years, between the time the Qiblah was
changed towards the Ka’ba and the
conquest of Mecca, whenever
Muhammad faced the Ka’ba to pray, the
Ka’ba remained a shrine of idol-worship.
This is not an insignificant matter in
terms of worship. Why was Muhammad
not commanded to wait until the removal
of those idols? Why did Allah submit to
Muhammad’s desire and as a result
make it a requirement for the early
Muslims to bow towards the direction of
the pagan idols, whenever they approach
him in prayer during all those
intervening years? Did not Allah say, “To
Allah belongs the East and the West”?
Why, then must the prayers of the
Muslims be directed towards the pagan
shrine in order to reach the ears of
Allah? Notice the commanding tone of
Allah in Surah 2:144:
“Wherever ye are, turn your faces in
that direction.”
The following Hadith clearly shows that
the idols were destroyed only after the
conquest of Mecca which took place
several years later after the Qiblah was
changed towards the Ka’ba.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59,
Number 583:
Narrated By Abdullah: When the
Prophet entered Mecca on the day of
the Conquest, there were 360 idols
around the Ka’ba.

truthman2012:
EzioAuditore



Nonsense!

You asked a question and I answered you. Why should you ignore it?



Lie! Lie!! Lie!!!

Abraham was never among the Arabs. Both biblical and islamic sources confirm that.

Although Ishmael was not in Arabia, but even if he was there, he was too young to know the religion of Abraham. His mother, Hagai was from Egypt who were pagans. That was why the whole of Arabs were into paganism and that led to the building of Kaaba for their 360 idols.

Check for more on this: https://www.nairaland.com/2279859/true-story-abrahams-journey-mecca

I know you have phobia for clicking a link.



Nobody needs your lies on them. The hadiths I cited are clear enough.



Let's have your source that is verifiable. What you said here is your own formulation to cover up. You cannot just vomit lies and expect people to swallow it. Smh!



Look at another baby lie here. Learn Arabic from who when a hadith said nobody was in Mecca when Ishmael and his mother got there.

Again, let's have your source, verifiable.



Yet Muhammad had to fight fierce wars to establish islam where people were already muslims. Black lie.

What is your verifiable proof?



So Abraham was a muslim in Arabia where he didn't stay. Keep lying!



Where do you get your fake story. Some people just sat down and think of how to defend islam without authoritative backing. They wrong their own souls.



Don't deceive yourself. allahh himself confirms what they were doing was a pagan practice:

[Quran 2:158 Pickthal] Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware.

SUMMARY

Everything you stated are formulated lies by some muslims, who could not provide verifiable proof.

Lmao! Dicing something and critiquing it does not make it a lie. I did this to clear all doubts in the hearts of muslims and those who may or may not have been confused by your madness. Did you even read the supposed justification for your refutal? Lol! Asking questions like how Abraham is a muslim if he didn't stay in Arabia proves how much of a blind ignorant fool you are. But like I said, never bring this rubbish up again, now how about you answer my previous questions.

EzioAuditore:


Lmao! Dicing something and critiquing it does not make it a lie. I did this to clear all doubts in the hearts of muslims and those who may or may not have been confused by your madness. Did you even read the supposed justification for your refutal? Lol! Asking questions like how Abraham is a muslim if he didn't stay in Arabia proves how much of a blind ignorant fool you are. But like I said, never bring this rubbish up again, now how about you answer my previous questions.

Trash!

Caught napping as usual.

Muslims who love their souls with not listen to the lies formulated to keep them in satanic bondage. Now you are unable to provide verifiable evidence, the next thing is for you to cover up with abuses. I pity you and your type.

truthman2012:


Trash!

Caught napping as usual.

Muslims who love their souls with not listen to the lies formulated to keep them in satanic bondage. Now you are unable to provide verifiable evidence, the next thing is for you to cover up with abuses. I pity you and your type.

Okay, whatever. But do you have an explanation as to why you're worshipping a pagan God?

**Yawns**
Goodnight malviguy212. I have no tym for bullshhit

EzioAuditore:



Okay, whatever. But do you have an explanation as to why you're worshipping a pagan God?

After every reasonable person has seen the truth that islam is paganism from the hadith and even the quran.

Point to the bible or any Christian source where Christianity is described as paganism. I won't take sources from atheists and muslims opinions and fabrications. Only Christians source as I gave you only islamic sources.

truthman2012:


Check your quran, Pickthal translation. Others have changed the true translation of the arabic text.

Muslims will keep re-translating the quran till it will no more tally with the arabic text or possibly change the arabic text.

There are some hadiths I had once seen on online hadith website which are no more there. I don't know why muslims will forever be deceiving themselves. It is terrible.

Lol! More hypocrisy from christians, the same people who release a new version of the bible every year.

truthman2012:


After every reasonable person has seen the truth that islam is paganism from the hadith and even the quran.

Point to the bible or any Christiam source where Christianity is described as paganism. I won't take sources from atheists and muslims opinions and fabrications. Only Christians source as I gave you only islamic sources.

Lmao! Dude, just tell me why there are so many similarities between jesus and HORUS. I know that's what you've been trying to dodge.

EzioAuditore:


Lol! More hypocrisy from christians, the same people who release a new version of the bible every year.

All the versions having the same meaning with different styles of English.

EzioAuditore:


Lmao! Dude, just tell me why there are so many similarities between jesus and HORUS. I know that's what you've been trying to dodge.

What are the similarities?

Do the HORUS declare Jesus as Son of God?

Do the adherents call themselves children of God?

Do they believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Are they expecting the 2nd coming of Jesus?

Do they speak in tongues?

@truthman2012(m): 7:45pm

RoyPCain:
@truthman2012; you are a joke at least claiming the bold in () indicated Allah says its paganic to observe the rites of hajj/umra. God you this dude is frustrating. maybe you are frustrated enough to be this openly dishonest. subhannaAllah.


Check [/b]your quran, [b]Pickthal translation. Others have changed the true translation of the arabic text.

Muslims will keep re-translating the quran till it will no more tally with the arabic text or possibly change the arabic text.

There are some hadiths I had once seen on online hadith website which are no more there. I don't know why muslims will forever be deceiving themselves. It is terrible.

do you have any skill on the arabic language as can you read, speak or write in arabic? in your entire life, have you read, spoke or wrote a full sentence in arabic? can you write your name in arabic? if you can't or havent done any of these, know that Quran is in authentic arabic and it is not the english translation by pickthal or anyone else. only a deceiving soul will therefore use what is in the bracket in english translation in spite of it not appearing in the arabic text as what the Quran is truly saying.


i may excuse your ignorance and applaud you for christian soldier effort marching on to crush us muslims, yet you will claim you are harmless, in spite of your boldface lie here.

anyone who has any noticeable knowledge will find truth if sincere in discussion. who was the first to go between safa and marwa mountains and was it done for paganic purpose by pagan or what exactly? if it was Hajar our mother from the house of Ibrahim [as] our father that did it, was it because she was a pagan in the house of Ibrahim [AS] the father of true faith and true Friend of God? you do have these descriptions of Ibrahim in your tradition of christianity or you people already scratched them off?




It was after the sacrificial test of Ismail upon Ibrahim [AS] in the vicinity of Makka that Allah says in Surah As saffat verses 105 to 112 that after the test of slaughter of the son, Ibrahim [AS] was rewarded with announcement of a son name given as Isaaq, that will be born [the time of this announcement was later when the angels were sent to destroy the people of Lut [the homosexuals] described in a different Surah, even the reaction of Sarah].



we can see in verse 108 that it the Order of Allah that the events of the people [ibrahim, Hajar, Ismail representing the lamb] of the house of Ibrahim [AS] including mother running up and down looking for water while keeping an eye on baby ismail, all the way to the after building the Kaabah are now rites of Hajj. The jewish prophets [AS] you trying to exclude from Islam, in spite of you saying bad and filthy things about many of them to include Ibrahim [not patient for time], David [wife snatcher and killer of husband], Solomon [idol worshiper] [AS], [it is obvious that Ibrahim [A] the caller of mankind to hajj by order of his Lord [not Jesus or ghost mind you because neither was known by him, and you are the ones that know these two to be your Lords along with true God Who you now call father]] made hajj.




you can see traces of the hajj [pilgrimage] in your bible about bakka valley. further, we know it was much later that idol which ushered in idolatry was introduced into Makka and Kaaba, by this act changing and corrupting the Way of Ibrahim [AS] which later ended the jews from the tradition of performing hajj. in all of the filth of the arabs as pagans, they knew that Allah does exist and He is not on earth, not an Entity that they can represent by something physical. in their takbirat of their hajj in pagan time, you can hear them saying something similar to what we say now, except that they made allowance for their idols in the proclamation.




in short when Islam that started on Adam, restarted on Ibrahim after everyone in his time were pagans was being completed upon the holy prophet [SA], everything that had been corrupted by the pagans arabs to include the rites of hajj had to be restored into its original purity, canceling out the filth of paganism, by corrupter paganism of christians was the restoration of prophetic honor of Jesus [AS] and that of paganic and clanish jews was the restoration of the honor of Mary as chased woman. each and every restored rites, process, story and personality by Islam of Muhammad [SA] from the gutters you and other disbelievers to include the arab pagans and the jews have socked them, had to be done to exactly how God wants it. let me share something with you; bugatti was a brand name that died and forgotten for many decades, maybe close to half a century or more. however, when the brand name was restored to its former glorious period, you can see that even now, any car with the name is something to behold on the road or the concourse of cars. even the most expensive new car is bugatti. Islam of Muhammad [SA] has restored everything to the true original without blemish except that your heart rejects this truth.

malvisguy212:
Ezi.oAuditore
Scholars and many old Bible manuscripts reveal that the contents of the Bible available in Muhammad's time (570 - 632 A.D.) are nearly identical to those of today's Bible. And the Bible of Muhammad's time, the one endorsed
by the Quran ,

@ malvis, Kindly tell me you didnt type @underlined?. You still repeated this nonsense after it was trashed on rilwayne's thread....remember? "Question: Did Jesus read the Bible?". Question is who are those scholars?

They Must Leave The Religion

[size=15pt]Christians are leaving the faith in droves and the trend isn't slowing down[/size]

An extensive study done by the Pew Research Center http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/#projected-growth-map has yielded some fascinating information regarding the trajectory of world religions over the next four decades.

As of 2010, Christianity was the dominant world religion with roughly 2.2 billion adherents and Muslim's were second with about 1.6 billion adherents. If current demographic trends continue however, Islam is expected to catch up to Christianity midway through the 21st century.



Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/christians-leaving-faith-droves-trend-173818770.html

Pope Francis reacts as he leads a Wednesday general audience in Saint Peter's square at the Vatican January 15, 2014.

This is a comment from a Yahoo user regarding the above. Jim said:

Here's the thing I was raised Roman Catholic and as a result was sent to religious school after school called CCD. My mother later became a Born Again. And yes I've read the bible. Thing is I don't believe. It makes no sense to my way of thinking. The more i think about the subject the less it seems to make sense The more science discovers... The less valid the bible seems. I prefer knowledge to ideology. Now if I were to choose between the three faiths that follow the God of Abraham the Jewish faith, Islam and or Christianity It would be Islam cause well it has one KEY feature that in my mind makes it so much better. There is a Hell in the Islam faith but it's NOT for an eternity. It's only for as long as it requires for your individual sin to be burned away. Then off to Heaven you go. I many not be a god but that seems fair to me.... The Christian alternative is off the charts wrong headed.. Out and out nasty in the extreme.

^^((Pew Research) ) If the current trends continue beyond 2050 - which is a big if considering unforeseen events that can happen over a 40 year span (war, famine, innovation etc.) - then by the year 2070 the world's population of Muslims would roughly equal that of Christians.

Here are other chief findings from the report:

1. Islam will grow faster than any other religion over the next 40 years.

2. The number of Muslims will equal the number of Christians around the world by 2050.

3. Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population.

4. The global Buddhist population will be about the same size it was in 2010, while the Hindu and Jewish populations will be larger than they are today.

5. In Europe, Muslims will make up 10% of the overall population.

6. India will retain a Hindu majority but also will have the largest Muslim population of any country in the world, surpassing Indonesia.

7. In the United States, Christians will decline from more than three-quarters of the population in 2010 to two-thirds in 2050, and Judaism will no longer be the largest non-Christian religion. Muslims will be more numerous in the U.S. than people who identify as Jewish on the basis of religion.

8. Four out of every 10 Christians in the world will live in sub-Saharan Africa.

Empiree:
^^((Pew Research) ) If the current trends continue beyond 2050 - which is a big if considering unforeseen events that can happen over a 40 year span (war, famine, innovation etc.) - then by the year 2070 the world's population of Muslims would roughly equal that of Christians.

Here are other chief findings from the report:

1. Islam will grow faster than any other religion over the next 40 years.

2. The number of Muslims will equal the number of Christians around the world by 2050.

3. Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population.

4. The global Buddhist population will be about the same size it was in 2010, while the Hindu and Jewish populations will be larger than they are today.

5. In Europe, Muslims will make up 10% of the overall population.

6. India will retain a Hindu majority but also will have the largest Muslim population of any country in the world, surpassing Indonesia.

7. In the United States, Christians will decline from more than three-quarters of the population in 2010 to two-thirds in 2050, and Judaism will no longer be the largest non-Christian religion. Muslims will be more numerous in the U.S. than people who identify as Jewish on the basis of religion.

8. Four out of every 10 Christians in the world will live in sub-Saharan Africa.

Is this how you now validate your modernized and reformed paganistic religion, that is Islam?

truthman2012:


What are the similarities?

Do the HORUS declare Jesus as Son of God?

Do the adherents call themselves children of God?

Do they believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Are they expecting the 2nd coming of Jesus?

Do they speak in tongues?

Is this your explanation? Its like saying this guy has the same nose, eyes, lips, ears as his father but just that he's shorter. Is this the best you could come up with? So you're not worried that a sun god that came centuries before jesus shares almost 40 similarities with him? Shame on you! Who are you trying to sell this to, me or yourself? Because I know when I pass on an explanation I believe in it 100 percent but do you sincerely believe this BS? No be honest! Deep down you know you're worshipping a false one eyed egyptian sun god who is the son of osiris who happens to be called son of god and all that. I have always agreed with reza aslan that jesus of nazareth and jesus christ are two different people, even history will agree with that. Like I said, keep lying to yourself, when the hour approaches, you'll have no excuse, this is just utter buffoonery, like I said, atheism is your destiny, you can't run away from it. Your religion is a man made fallacy and very soon it will be no more.

truthman2012:


All the versions having the same meaning with different styles of English.

Whatever you tell yourselves to sleep at night.

truthman2012:


After every reasonable person has seen the truth that islam is paganism from the hadith and even the quran.

Point to the bible or any Christian source where Christianity is described as paganism. I won't take sources from atheists and muslims opinions and fabrications. Only Christians source as I gave you only islamic sources.

But christianity is based completely on paganism. You worship a one eyed sun god. We worship Allah, the God of Abraham ishmael isaac. Moses and Jesus, the One true God, Master of the day of resurrection. He alone we worship and he alone we ask for help.

true2god:
Is this how you now validate your modernized and reformed paganistic religion, that is Islam?

What makes islam a pagan religion? Do we worship a one eyed sun god?

Empiree:
@ malvis, Kindly tell me you didnt type @underlined?. You still repeated this nonsense after it was trashed on rilwayne's thread....remember? "Question: Did Jesus read the Bible?". Question is who are those scholars?

surah10:94
"And if thou wert in doubt as to what
We have revealed unto thee, then
ask those who have been reading
the BOOK FROM BEFORE THEE..."

" those who have been reading
the BOOK FROM BEFORE THEE..." are christians and Jews, if this people are reading corrupted book it's make NO sense for Allah to ask the muslims to make confirmation in there BOOK, and if the scripture is corrupted before muhammed had died, how was he able to see the revelation that the scripture(bible) is corrupted?it is absolutely necessary to believe that the Scriptures before Islam are uncorrupted!

EzioAuditore:


But christianity is based completely on paganism. You worship a one eyed sun god. We worship Allah, the God of Abraham ishmael isaac. Moses and Jesus, the One true God, Master of the day of resurrection. He alone we worship and he alone we ask for help.

where are your evidence? Don't copy and paste conspiracy theory, give me biblical evidence.

Meanwhile here are evidence of paganism in Islam;
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I
asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca).
Anas replied, “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the Pre-Islamic period of
Ignorance, so when Islam came, we
gave up going around them. Then
Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) are among the Symbols of
Allah. So it is not harmful of those
who perform the Hajj of the House
(of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between
them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( as the pagan
custom is).” (Pickthall)
How can the very same two mountains
that were sacred to the pagans become
the “Symbols of Allah” all of a sudden?
Moreover, how is it that the very same
pagan ritual of running between the two
hills is also retained in Islam? In
addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual
of going around the Ka’ba seven times,
also retained in Islam?
In the Hindu marriage rite of Saptapadi,
the married couple circumnavigate the
fire seven times. In the Islamic ritual of
Tawaf, Muslims also circumnavigate the
Ka’ba seven times. In both of these
rituals, religious phrases are repeated
during the circumambulation. Some of
the rituals that Muslims follow during the
Hajj are the same as the rites observed
by Hindus in their worship of Shiva. Take
note of some of the striking similarities:
(1) Both Hindu and Muslim male
devotees are required to shave their
heads during their pilgrimage.
(2) And similar to their Hindu
counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are
also required to dress in a garment
consisting of two sheets of white cloth.
This type of garment is known as Dhoti in
Hinduism.
(3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva
observe a rite in which they walk around
their object of reverence seven times,
Muslim pilgrims also walk around the
Ka’ba seven times.
(4) Both their objects of reverence are
Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black
Stone is known as Shiva lingam.
(5) While Hindus drink water from the
Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in
their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink
from the Well of Zamzam during the
Hajj.
(6) Additionally, the Crescent moon,
which is associated with the Hindu deity
Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the
Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the
crescent moon is always painted across
his forehead. Moreover, in every
portrayal of Shiva, there is always a
depiction of a snake curled around his
neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah
is supposed to have sent a snake to
guard the treasures of the Ka’ba.
It may surprise Muslims to know that
Umar, the 2nd Caliph of Islam, had
reservations about kissing the pagan
Black Stone.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26,
Number 675:
Narrated by Zaid bin Aslam: From his
father who said: “Umar bin Al-Khattab
addressed the Corner ( Black Stone)
saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you
are a stone and can neither benefit
nor harm. Had I not seen the
Prophet touching (and kissing) you,
I would never have touched (and
kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it.”
This is a very revealing statement coming
from one who used to be a pagan.
Umar’s conversion to monotheism was so
absolute that he was able to make the
above observation while his Prophet was
actually venerating a pagan idol. The
reason behind Umar’s reluctance in
kissing the Black Stone is that the pagan
Arabs also performed this same ritual.
However, Umar venerated his Prophet
and this eventually led him to venerate
the pagan idol. Ultimately, he ended up
venerating the Black Stone, Muhammad
and Allah.

EzioAuditore:


Is this your explanation? Its like saying this guy has the same nose, eyes, lips, ears as his father but just that he's shorter. Is this the best you could come up with? So you're not worried that a sun god that came centuries before jesus shares almost 40 similarities with him? Shame on you! Who are you trying to sell this to, me or yourself? Because I know when I pass on an explanation I believe in it 100 percent but do you sincerely believe this BS? No be honest! Deep down you know you're worshipping a false one eyed egyptian sun god who is the son of osiris who happens to be called son of god and all that. I have always agreed with reza aslan that jesus of nazareth and jesus christ are two different people, even history will agree with that. Like I said, keep lying to yourself, when the hour approaches, you'll have no excuse, this is just utter buffoonery, like I said, atheism is your destiny, you can't run away from it. Your religion is a man made fallacy and very soon it will be no more.

Trash!

You can't prove anything you said here from any Christian source. Liar!

Which Jesus does your quran talk about, Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus Christ?

I have proved many times over from islamic sources that Abraham had nothing to do with islam, allahh lied to you.

Quran 34:44] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners.

No menssenger was in Arab before Muhammad, therefore your claim that islam was the religion of Abraham is FALSE. There was no islam before Muhammad, paganism was the religion of the arabs and Muhammad family idol was allahh, which you are trying to convert to the true God.

The way allahh was worshiped before islam as a pagan god is the same way he is worshiped in islam. Refer to my earlier islamic evidences. ALLAH IS AN IDOL!!!

EzioAuditore:


What makes islam a pagan religion? Do we worship a one eyed sun god?

I have proved to you many times over how islam is a pagan religion.

Where did you see sun in the symbol of Christianity? It is in islam you worship allahh the moon-god. Moon symbol is present in anything islamic.

My friend, something seems to be wrong with you. You can read but can't understand. You again talk like a baby. With all the ample evidence I have provided, you still could ask '' What makes islam a pagan religion? With rate you are going, it will reach a point where everybody will abandone you as you reason upside down. Smh!

malvisguy212:
where are your evidence? Don't copy and paste conspiracy theory, give me biblical evidence.

Meanwhile here are evidence of paganism in Islam;
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I
asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca).
Anas replied, “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the Pre-Islamic period of
Ignorance, so when Islam came, we
gave up going around them. Then
Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) are among the Symbols of
Allah. So it is not harmful of those
who perform the Hajj of the House
(of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between
them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( as the pagan
custom is).” (Pickthall)
How can the very same two mountains
that were sacred to the pagans become
the “Symbols of Allah” all of a sudden?
Moreover, how is it that the very same
pagan ritual of running between the two
hills is also retained in Islam? In
addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual
of going around the Ka’ba seven times,
also retained in Islam?
In the Hindu marriage rite of Saptapadi,
the married couple circumnavigate the
fire seven times. In the Islamic ritual of
Tawaf, Muslims also circumnavigate the
Ka’ba seven times. In both of these
rituals, religious phrases are repeated
during the circumambulation. Some of
the rituals that Muslims follow during the
Hajj are the same as the rites observed
by Hindus in their worship of Shiva. Take
note of some of the striking similarities:
(1) Both Hindu and Muslim male
devotees are required to shave their
heads during their pilgrimage.
(2) And similar to their Hindu
counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are
also required to dress in a garment
consisting of two sheets of white cloth.
This type of garment is known as Dhoti in
Hinduism.
(3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva
observe a rite in which they walk around
their object of reverence seven times,
Muslim pilgrims also walk around the
Ka’ba seven times.
(4) Both their objects of reverence are
Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black
Stone is known as Shiva lingam.
(5) While Hindus drink water from the
Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in
their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink
from the Well of Zamzam during the
Hajj.
(6) Additionally, the Crescent moon,
which is associated with the Hindu deity
Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the
Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the
crescent moon is always painted across
his forehead. Moreover, in every
portrayal of Shiva, there is always a
depiction of a snake curled around his
neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah
is supposed to have sent a snake to
guard the treasures of the Ka’ba.
It may surprise Muslims to know that
Umar, the 2nd Caliph of Islam, had
reservations about kissing the pagan
Black Stone.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26,
Number 675:
Narrated by Zaid bin Aslam: From his
father who said: “Umar bin Al-Khattab
addressed the Corner ( Black Stone)
saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you
are a stone and can neither benefit
nor harm. Had I not seen the
Prophet touching (and kissing) you,
I would never have touched (and
kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it.”
This is a very revealing statement coming
from one who used to be a pagan.
Umar’s conversion to monotheism was so
absolute that he was able to make the
above observation while his Prophet was
actually venerating a pagan idol. The
reason behind Umar’s reluctance in
kissing the Black Stone is that the pagan
Arabs also performed this same ritual.
However, Umar venerated his Prophet
and this eventually led him to venerate
the pagan idol. Ultimately, he ended up
venerating the Black Stone, Muhammad
and Allah.

Now I refuted this rubbish, I am going to give you the same explanation I gave to the r*tarded truthman bloke, but yet the slowpoke is dancing around asking where Abd-ALLAH comes from, anyways, this too is left for you to comprehend. Read:



I wanted to just ignore you but it seems the matter keeps coming up and so I have decided to address this issue once and for all. People tend to forget that Abraham and Ishmael both preached monotheism to ARAbS and as such you may find some good deeds diluted in madness amongst the pagans. You wanted to know

Who Allah is? Mind you Allah means God in Arabic but let's just ignore that for now
You said the pagans prayed towards Makkah
You wanted to know about Safana and marwa
And finally you wanted to know about ihram.

I think this will answer all your questions that is if answers are what you're looking for:

We know that the word “Allah” was in use before the time of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). If we read Ar-Raheeq ul-Makhtum we realise that the early Arabs did believe in Allah as the Only God. This is dated all the way back to the time of Prophet Ishmael (p) who resided in Makkah (Mecca) and learned Arabic as well as settling there [1]. He preached the message of pure monotheism; “Most of the Arabs had complied with the call of Ishmael and professed the religion of his father Abraham. They worshipped Allah, professed His Oneness and followed His religion...” [2].

This shows that Allah was known as the Only God, just like the Muslims believe Him to be. Indeed Abraham and Ishmael (pbut) are considered to be Muslims, i.e. those who had submitted to the Will of the Only God, Allah.

How paganism was introduced after Ishmael and Abraham (pbut)

The issue of paganism came into the equation as the Arabs forgot this pure monotheism which was taught by Ishmael and his followers. The idolatry was originated from the actions of a man named Amr bin Luhai, he was known as a devoted and righteous man, well respected by his peers. However, after a trip away from Mecca he saw idol-worship in Syria.

Upon his return to the Meccans he introduced idol worship to the Meccans by bringing an idol named Hubal back from Syria and this resulted in the spread of a great many idols across Mecca.

They now (wrongly) believed Allah to be the high god of many gods

Despite the Meccan pagans’ acceptance of idols they still proclaimed belief in Allah in the sense that they saw Allah as the High God but used the idols as ‘lesser deities’ whom they believed “could intercede before Allah for the fulfilment of their wishes” [4].

Quite simply they had a pantheon of ‘gods’ but believed that Allah was the High God of their pantheon. [6]

The theory of Allah being considered as a High God is backed by Ar-Raheequl-Maktoum, Karen Armstrong [6] and W. M. Watt [7].

Effectively over the years they changed their belief in Allah, from the belief that Allah was the Only God (the Abrahamic teachings) to the belief that Allah was the High God of their many deities (pagan/polytheistic teachings).

There were 360 different idols, belonging to the pagans of Mecca, around the Ka’bah when Prophet Muhammed took charge of Mecca. These idols were subsequently broken, removed and burned under the authority of Prophet Muhammed [3].

Prophet Muhammad’s father - Abdullah

Another source that attests to the fact that the pre-Islamic Arabs used the name Allah and held a ‘belief’ in Him is the genealogy of Prophet Muhammed, his father’s name was actually Abdullah (meaning servant of Allah) [5]. Interestingly enough, some of these pagan Arabs believed that Allah was the same God that the Jews and Christians worshipped [6]

Prophet Muhammad reintroduces Abrahamic monotheism

In 610 CE, the Prophet Muhammad began to call the pagan Arabs back to the pure monotheism which was taught by Abraham and Ishmael centuries earlier. By 632 CE the Meccan Arabs had given up their idols and returned back to pure monotheism – believing in Allah as the only god.

So you can see where the name Abd-Allah came from, and you can see why practices like ihram, praying towards the Kaaba, fasting on Muharram, safa and marwa etc may have originated from. Just like there are christian and Jewish practices that are similar to that of muslims.

Jesus of Nazareth is being molded into another thing completely, this gave birth to Jesus Christ, a mythical God who is basically the same God as HORUS the one eyed sun god.

truthman2012:


I have proved to you many times over how islam is a pagan religion.

Where did you see sun in the symbol of Christianity? It is in islam you worship allahh the moon-god. Moon symbol is present in anything islamic.

My friend, something seems to be wrong with you. You can read but can't understand. You again talk like a baby. With all the ample evidence I have provided, you still could ask '' What makes islam a pagan religion? With rate you are going, it will reach a point where everybody will abandone you as you reason upside down. Smh!

So because muslims worship Allah, the God of Abraham, the one true God, they are now pagans? Interesting, but christians worship Jesus Christ, a mythical God who is basically just HORUS the sun God. Christians go to church on SUNDAY, a practice that was introduced later on, basically the prophet Jesus of Nazareth, a brown Palestinian Jew was turned into a blonde blue eyed God. Smh.

truthman2012:


Trash!

You can't prove anything you said here from any Christian source. Liar!

Which Jesus does your quran talk about, Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus Christ?

I have proved many times over from islamic sources that Abraham had nothing to do with islam, allahh lied to you.

Quran 34:44] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners.

No menssenger was in Arab before Muhammad, therefore your claim that islam was the religion of Abraham is FALSE. There was no islam before Muhammad, paganism was the religion of the arabs and Muhammad family idol was allahh, which you are trying to convert to the true God.

The way allahh was worshiped before islam as a pagan god is the same way he is worshiped in islam. Refer to my earlier islamic evidences. ALLAH IS AN IDOL!!!

Whenever I see you spurt your ignorance and madness, I can't hop but laugh at this deluded fellow. Question, is Ishmael the progenitor of the Arab race?

EzioAuditore:



So because muslims worship Allah, the God of Abraham, the one true God, they are now pagans? Interesting, but christians worship Jesus Christ, a mythical God who is basically just HORUS the sun God. Christians go to church on SUNDAY, a practice that was introduced later on, basically the prophet Jesus of Nazareth, a brown Palestinian Jew was turned into a blonde blue eyed God. Smh.

Trash!