RichyBlacK:

Thanx!

Just telling the sisters how brothers feel.

Very true i believe you are not alone on this, so many brothers feel this way too. There is no silver bullet solution to the problems and challenges the black brothers and sisters encounter in their relationship but you have really outlined some of the basic issues.

@Richy "Guff" Black

Eloquently put,you are still an idiot but every once in a while,lucidity creeps into your normally asinine NL posts.

The "strong black woman" myth is a sort of female version of young black men's attempts to be "gangster",a product of the hip hop culture.The type the US Police calls "wangsters" .The desperate attempts to live up to an image always leads to disastrous consequences for the woman.The irony is that the women who seek to live up to this image are often the weakest of their gender,uncomfortable in their own skin and desperately seeking another identity.

I-man:

@Richy "Guff" Black

Eloquently put,you are still an idiot but every once in a while,lucidity creeps into your normally asinine Nairaland posts.

The "strong black woman" myth is a sort of female version of young black men's attempts to be "gangster",a product of the hip hop culture.The type the US Police calls "wangsters" .The desperate attempts to live up to an image always leads to disastrous consequences for the woman.The irony is that the women who seek to live up to this image are often the weakest of their gender,uncomfortable in their own skin and desperately seeking another identity.

Na wa ooh! So you carry Nairaland Politics beef come Nairaland Culture. Well, I'll forgive your childishness one more time. "Am I not merciful? AM I NOT MERCIFUL?" _{- Commodus in Gladiator. One of the greatest movies of all time!}

@topic,
We need sweet black women. Where are the sweet black women? Where are those that love and want to be loved? We are tired of angry black woman who confuse anger with strength.

mazaje:

Very true i believe you are not alone on this, so many brothers feel this way too. There is no silver bullet solution to the problems and challenges of the black brothers and sisters relationship problems but you have really outlined some the basic issues.

@mazaje,
I've dated more than my fair share of "strong black women" and with time I've come to understand their MO. The real issue is that many of them come from broken/unstable homes. This is not saying that people from broken homes always turn out this way (A => B does not mean B => A, thank God for logic!), but that of those who turn out to be angry, the majority are products of their tumultuous backgrounds. At a young age they're made to believe that men will be the source of all their problems on earth.

Thanks to biased family laws that favor women in the US, after the divorce, the mother starts telling her daughter that her father is a "dog". Eternal pampering is reserved for their sons - thug-life is the sure destination [this is a whole different topic].

Not college-educated
The daughters grow up with some level of distrust for men. They self-fulfill the prophecy of their mothers by seeking out dog-like men. They avoid the men with character, compassion, humility and strength for the those living the thug-life - the bad boys. Those who do not fit the bad boy label, i.e. the good boys, are dismissed as "not cute",weak, lazy and unattractive. Of course the bad boys live up to their names and their anger towards men is only multiplied. The good boys are long gone, taken by more stable black sisters or white, Asian, or Latino women. Loneliness sets in and they now are determined to chart their own course - have babies! The intent is to 'create' a good man (better than their fathers and boyfriends) and a better woman (better than themselves). After several kids from different men, the cycle continues.

College-educated
They grow up being told to be focused and not allow any man to tell them what to do. Many times, they're indoctrinated with the idea that personal success (having a good job, buying a house, a nice car, etc.) is incompatible with success in relationships, a.k.a. marriage. Oprah is promptly used as the shining example. In a society like America where black women outnumber black men on college campuses, and where in every American family-based sitcom (except for a few like The Cosby Show), the man is portrayed as goofy, childish, stupid, or incompetent, the woman graduates from college with a warped view of men - dumb, need help, "can't write a check", can't balance an account, not educated, and mentally stunted. They meet a lot of men who confirm such stereotypes, but also meet well-educated brothers that they know not how to deal with. It all ends in what Abami Eda called "Power Show"! After several failed relationships they then decide to have kids. A black male victim is sought out. It ends in no marriage or marriage and then divorce - divorce due to "I'm college-educated and you're not"; or "I'm college-educated and no man tells me what to do"; or "I pay the bills here, how dare you?"; or "I make my own money and don't need your trifling ass!"; etc. She gets the kids and the cycle continues.

RichyBlacK:

@mazaje,
I've dated more than my fair share of "strong black women" and with time I've come to understand their MO. The real issue is that many of them come from broken/unstable homes. This is not saying that people from broken homes always turn out this way (A => B does not mean B => A, thank God for logic!), but that of those who turn out to be angry, the majority are products of their tumultuous backgrounds. At a young age they're made to believe that men will be the source of all their problems on earth.

Thanks to biased family laws that favor women in the US, after the divorce, the mother starts telling her daughter that her father is a "dog". Eternal pampering is reserved for their sons - thug-life is the sure destination [this is a whole different topic].

Not college-educated
The daughters grow up with some level of distrust for men. They self-fulfill the prophecy of their mothers by seeking out dog-like men. They avoid the men with character, compassion, humility and strength for the those living the thug-life - the bad boys. Those who do not fit the bad boy label, i.e. the good boys, are dismissed as "not cute",weak, lazy and unattractive. Of course the bad boys live up to their names and their anger towards men is only multiplied. The good boys are long gone, taken by more stable black sisters or white, Asian, or Latino women. Loneliness sets in and they now are determined to chart their own course - have babies! The intent is to 'create' a good man (better than their fathers and boyfriends) and a better woman (better than themselves). After several kids from different men, the cycle continues.

College-educated
They grow up being told to be focused and not allow any man to tell them what to do. Many times, they're indoctrinated with the idea that personal success (having a good job, buying a house, a nice car, etc.) is incompatible with success in relationships, a.k.a. marriage. Oprah is promptly used as the shining example. In a society like America where black women outnumber black men on college campuses, and where in every American family-based sitcom (except for a few like The Cosby Show), the man is portrayed as goofy, childish, stupid, or incompetent, the woman graduates from college with a warped view of men - dumb, need help, "can't write a check", can't balance an account, not educated, and mentally stunted. They meet a lot of men who confirm such stereotypes, but also meet well-educated brothers that they know not how to deal with. It all ends in what Abami Eda called "Power Show"! After several failed relationships they then decide to have kids. A black male victim is sought out. It ends in no marriage or marriage and then divorce - divorce due to "I'm college-educated and you're not"; or "I'm college-educated and no man tells me what to do"; or "I pay the bills here, how dare you?"; or "I make my own money and don't need your trifling ass!"; etc. She gets the kids and the cycle continues.

Very  insightful. Merry go round they say. Black men ain't shit is the mantra out there, people with attitudes. some times i really wonder why the AA just can't get it right most of the time(relationship wise). Thanks for your write up man, at least i  now know one of the fundamental reason behind the high rate of illegitimacy(baby mama) in the AA society.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm


Hard to argue with ur point of view, Richy

RichyBlack . . . excellent points. You captured the essence of the "strong black woman" so eloquently in so few words.

mazaje:

Very insightful. Merry go round they say. Black men ain't shit is the mantra out there, people with attitudes. some times i really wonder why the AA just can't get it right most of the time(relationship wise). Thanks for you write up man, at least i now know one of the fundamental reason behind the high rate of illegitimacy(baby mama) in the AA society.

Thanks. Though they are drama queens, I still love 'em AA sisters.

Uche2nna:

hmmmmmmmmmmmm


Hard to argue with your point of view, Richy

Thanks Uche2nna, I love them and I've tried to understand some of them.

davidylan:

RichyBlack . . . excellent points. You captured the essence of the "strong black woman" so eloquently in so few words.

Thanks davidylan, I speak from my experience with them "strong black women". One love.

RichyBlacK:

Thanks. Though they are drama queens, I still love 'em AA sisters.

@quote:

On the one hand, I want to say that labeling us as 'drama queens' is unfair because we are all not, but second if we are, it's a learned behavior.

Which leads me to:

RichyBlacK:

@mazaje,
I've dated more than my fair share of "strong black women" and with time I've come to understand their MO. The real issue is that many of them come from broken/unstable homes. This is not saying that people from broken homes always turn out this way (A => B does not mean B => A, thank God for logic!), but that of those who turn out to be angry, the majority are products of their tumultuous backgrounds. At a young age they're made to believe that men will be the source of all their problems on earth.

Thanks to biased family laws that favor women in the US, after the divorce, the mother starts telling her daughter that her father is a "dog". Eternal pampering is reserved for their sons - thug-life is the sure destination [this is a whole different topic].

Not college-educated
The daughters grow up with some level of distrust for men. They self-fulfill the prophecy of their mothers by seeking out dog-like men. They avoid the men with character, compassion, humility and strength for the those living the thug-life - the bad boys. Those who do not fit the bad boy label, i.e. the good boys, are dismissed as "not cute",weak, lazy and unattractive. Of course the bad boys live up to their names and their anger towards men is only multiplied. The good boys are long gone, taken by more stable black sisters or white, Asian, or Latino women. Loneliness sets in and they now are determined to chart their own course - have babies! The intent is to 'create' a good man (better than their fathers and boyfriends) and a better woman (better than themselves). After several kids from different men, the cycle continues.

College-educated
They grow up being told to be focused and not allow any man to tell them what to do. Many times, they're indoctrinated with the idea that personal success (having a good job, buying a house, a nice car, etc.) is incompatible with success in relationships, a.k.a. marriage. Oprah is promptly used as the shining example. In a society like America where black women outnumber black men on college campuses, and where in every American family-based sitcom (except for a few like The Cosby Show), the man is portrayed as goofy, childish, stupid, or incompetent, the woman graduates from college with a warped view of men - dumb, need help, "can't write a check", can't balance an account, not educated, and mentally stunted. They meet a lot of men who confirm such stereotypes, but also meet well-educated brothers that they know not how to deal with. It all ends in what Abami Eda called "Power Show"! After several failed relationships they then decide to have kids. A black male victim is sought out. It ends in no marriage or marriage and then divorce - divorce due to "I'm college-educated and you're not"; or "I'm college-educated and no man tells me what to do"; or "I pay the bills here, how dare you?"; or "I make my own money and don't need your trifling ass!"; etc. She gets the kids and the cycle continues.

I must admit this is correct on many levels, especially the insight behind the uneducated and educated AA sisters. I have to speak on my behalf, and on the behalf of others; that there are many sweet and loving AA sisters, black women. But people are a product of their environments and times. I know the hardest thing for me that I've had to learn is that it's okay to be strong in dealing with 'the world' but reserving a tender place for special people/that special man. On the one hand, so many women my age, that were children in the 1970s and 1980s, we are the daughters of the "women's liberation" movement. You know, we were taught you weren't really a woman unless you exhibit masculine qualities.

I know this is illogical but that summs up the ideaology of those times. I know (now) that makes no sense and it's unattractive, but you have to understand we were/are brainwashed into that thinking.

Furthermore, there have been so many men that frankly haven't lived up to their potential; they disapoint, they abuse, they are cheaters and liars. And it seems like a lot of men feel we are supposed to keep enduring the pain and losses in love and expect to keep a fresh and sweet perspective and attitude (?).

What I have learned personally is that we as women can remain sweet and attractive by being smart in the first place about our choices. We have to be more responsible and accountable about who we choose to love. We have to not be victimized by our choices (becoming combative and bitter) but learn from them and get to the bottom of why we keep choosing the wrong men to begin with. When we stop being victimed, we can stop being defensive and stop hiding behind walls. Then we can be open and inviting for that next man who (hopefully) will be worthy of our love and respect.

@Kenya,

I'm glad you realized the folly in the misguided phrase "strong black woman" or it's close cousin "strong independent black woman".

I see them "strong black women" as women who bring swords and machetes to a buffet requiring forks and knives. Their guards are always up even when it's unnecessary. Every move a brother makes is interpreted from a pride-control-power perspective. Perpetually angry, easily irritated, and constantly ruminating experiences with men of yesteryears. Confused by incoherent messages, they hate what they most desire, and push away what they most want. [b]Trigger-happy, they're unable to comprehend peace; hiding their fears with a facade of strength. They indulge in mind games that outplay them. Control and manipulation is their forte. They chant "equality" but work against balance. Anger, selfishness and insecurity rule their days.

As long as "sweet  Asian/Black/White/Latino women" still exist, no man wants to be with a "strong black woman".[/b]

I concur with all that you wrote. I really don't get it why people always try to attach strong to black women. Are other races devoid of strong women? Your words in bold depicts the exact irony I feel when strong is attributed to the "black woman."

To me, the idea of a strong black woman is displayed by women who hawk on the streets selling agege bread, fish etc on their heads from morning till night with a baby tied on their backs. None of these women ready to shout "strong black woman" can do that.

And sometimes when she refused to die, when she just refused to give in she was killed by the lethal images of blonde hair, blue eyes and flat butts, being rejected by the OJ.'s, the Quincy's, the Cuba's & the Kobe's.

This line reeks of pure jealousy and low self esteem upon the whole I'm black and I'm proud cliches. So black men should not go after who they want to be with? If a strong black woman was killed by the lethal images of blonde hair, blue eyes and flat butts, I'd rather be called weakling.

stillwater:

This line reeks of pure jealousy and low self esteem upon the whole I'm black and I'm proud cliches. So black men should not go after who they want to be with? If a strong black woman was killed by the lethal images of blonde hair, blue eyes and flat butts, I'd rather be called weakling.

lol we all knew it was a cliche perpetuated by those who need to remind themselves of their "pride" in their color. If they were truly "proud to be black" they wont hide their natural hair under tons of chemicals and asian/horse hair.
How many times do white women litter the internet with discussion forums about their color? You're born black and you cant change it, i suggest black women just get on with it.

davidylan:

lol we all knew it was a cliche perpetuated by those who need to remind themselves of their "pride" in their color. If they were truly "proud to be black" they wont hide their natural hair under tons of chemicals and asian/horse hair.
How many times do white women litter the internet with discussion forums about their color? You're born black and you can't change it, i suggest black women just get on with it.

Well said.

davidylan, there is nothing wrong with black people showing pride in their color. you've forgotten that at one time westerners or slave owners equated being black with bad/dirty/no-good/inhuman etc. so its now proclaiming "black is beautiful" and all that is just a way for blacks to reclaim their identity and be proud of who they are. is it our fault that we are black? i have to say i'm at least proud of the systems put in place to remind african americans where they are from, what it means to be black, how to be strong minded and not let some ignorant asses make you feel any less human. too bad our culture in naija has a long way to go. its even more sad because we are real africans, although we don't practice racism (ok, tribalism sha which is equally bad itself), but we are ignorant enough to think that calling each other the n-word is cool, just because we see our african american counterparts using the word. that's another story entirely because naija people just like to follow follow like goats.

when i was growing up as a child, although i didn't play with barbie dolls, i'm just realizing that i never saw other kids playing with black barbie dolls until i came to america. hence it is safe to say that as little girls, we didn't have the opportunity to be taught that playing with a black doll was acceptable, why? because they weren't even popular in the country. na so so white barbi doll boku for everywhere. i bet you if there are now, kids would still gravitate towards the light skinned, blue-eyed, blonde doll, because that's all they've seen and have been exposed to. its pretty sad, but i'm hoping it's changing now. girls should be taught to be proud of their dark color and not have low self esteem. i mean, if we don't teach ourselves these things and claim back our race, do we expect the westerners to? they judge you by your skin color already, so might as well let them who they're dealing with and shove their racism up their cracks!

@ souljagirl

I agree with the n-word thing.

Who owns the barbie doll company? Black people should build their own companies and stop waiting for white companies to help them make black dolls. My mother taught me to be proud of who I am, not based on only colour. I do not need to say black is beautiful for me to know that I am already beautiful and made in the image of God .

yeah, stillwater, black people should quit complaining and start manufacturing products that will be beneficial to them as well, instead of having to "manage" products made for other races. i even heard somewhere that its a "white" company that makes our hair products like "dark and lovely" etc. i dunno how true that is, but we do need to step up, although i think it's a challenge finance wise. its good to see some blacks that have money doing things to uplift our race, but more of us need to chip in. naija has nothing to show for this cause, and i'm laughing as i'm saying this because of how ridiculous it is, being one of the most populated black countries in africa. chei! where is all our billions of naira going to?

anyway, back to the story, its interesting that as nigerians, we take our skin color for granted, until we come abroad and face "in your face" racism where you then begin to question the fact that you're black. walai, i never even for a second considered my color when i was in my motherland. all we did was tease each other as per who's lighter or darker than the other, but alas, when i came to yankee, black is black, whether you're a light skinned or black-as-midnight dark skinned, all na the same to oyinbo man.

@souljagal
like u said ,though it won't be easy, more support is needed from the black masses, becos u stil see black entrepreneurs getting undermined by blacks who are nothing but a group of no-good,follow-his-white-ass,lay-about goldbriks


most people don't still understand that racism (both from whites and even their fellow skin-colored people) is stil in a continous play. we need to get a grip

Souljagirl:

but alas, when i came to yankee, black is black, whether you're a light skinned or black-as-midnight dark skinned, all na the same to oyinbo man.

Well said.

lai-lai:

most people don't still understand that racism (both from whites and even their fellow skin-colored people) is stil in a continous play. we need to get a grip

I couldn't agree more. The system of advantage called Racism is alive and well.

Souljagirl:

but alas, when i came to yankee, black is black, whether you're a light skinned or black-as-midnight dark skinned, all na the same to oyinbo man.

Excellent point. It leaves me in hysterics anytime i hear fools with low self esteem claim they are better simply because they are "a shade lighter".
Sometimes you wonder whether these people live in the same world as you do.

As long as you are not 100% white, the white world classifies you as BLACK!

I dont need to yell about "pride" in my color before i prove that i am as comfortable in my skin as the nearest white man. Racism is alive and well, crying buckets of tears about it will do us no good.

davidylan:

Racism is alive and well . . . . . . . .

and will last for as long as humanity
the earlier we realise this, and learn how to live with it,the better

toshmann:

and will last for as long as humanity
the earlier we realise this, and learn how to live with it,the better

I don't think it will last for as long as humanity. It will last until an new way of classifying people is created. Just like RACE as we know it today was created not that long ago to classify people for the sole purpose of perpetuating a system of advantage.

I think it's easy for some people to say "Black and Proud" is a cliche, because some don't know what it is to be a second or third class citizen for being black.

In "Yankee", blacks literally had to fight with their lives for the opportunity to be treated with human dignity and equality. African Americans since slavery and slavery in of itself taught us as as culture that indeed black was dirty, evil, disgusting. Hell, it's 2008, and in some parts of the US, there are people who STILL find blacks dirty and disgusting. They will say black people "smell" a certain way (dirty) our skin is ugly, we're "ghetto" (though a lot of us aren't", we're this and that.

Some of you readers will never know what is it to have dogs sicked on you to tear at your flesh, to be hung from trees, to have people burn you with fire, spit, pee, defecate, rape, throw food on you, etc simply because of your race. But that is what my people went through, especially during the civil rights movement of the 1950-1960s. And you wonder why African American's had issues with pride?

Even the term "Black" was radical at the time. We were colored, Negroes, Niggers, Nigras, spooks, tar-babies, etc. but Black was strong. And we needed that strength and pride in ourselves after 300 years of dehumanization.

So with that, when a "sista" or someone wears straight hair or chemicals, they can still be proud of who they are. I like straight hair, I wear natural hair too. I like having options. I'm not the least bit ashamed of myself, but my ancestors gave their lives so that I could be "Black and proud".

Souljagirl:

but alas, when i came to yankee, black is black, whether you're a light skinned or black-as-midnight dark skinned, all na the same to oyinbo man.

And that's what our Naija brothers and sisters need to understand: They have it good outside the motherland, especially in Yankee, because of "I'm Black and I'm Proud". If it wasn't for our movement, you all would have no mobility especially in this country.

I agree the "sistas" especially don't need to be so antagonistic, but if the "brothas" and "sistas" weren't so vocal, if we didn't fight for our rights and humanity, things would be a HELL of a lot different for other black immigrants.

@ drkchoclit

Don't get us wrong, we understand and sympathise with our fellow black people in the Americas. But please tell the hiphop videos to propagate the black community in a good light. Being black its not about smoking, using curse words, calling yourself the n-word, girls with their butts and not so real cleavages in your face. Is that what the likes of Martin Luther King Jr fought for? I think he fought for the right to education not the aforementioned.

Even the term "Black" was radical at the time. We were colored, Negroes, Niggers, Nigras, spooks, tar-babies, etc. but Black was strong.

But illiterate blacks have stooped to call themselves the n-word and think it's cool?

And that's what our Naija brothers and sisters need to understand: They have it good outside the motherland, especially in Yankee, because of "I'm Black and I'm Proud". If it wasn't for our movement, you all would have no mobility especially in this country.

But how many of today's African Americans are making use of what their strong and determined heroes fought for? Martin Luther King would turn in his grave if he sees his vision being made a mockery of by you guys. You have the right to go to school, you do not even have to pay for school fees in your public schools, but how many makes it to college or a university? If a black man makes something good out of his life they would say he's acting white. You guys should understand that the whites are not your problem, the problem lies in the African American community.

stillwater:

@ drkchoclit

Don't get us wrong, we understand and sympathise with our fellow black people in the Americas. But please tell the hiphop videos to propagate the black community in a good light. Being black its not about smoking, using curse words, calling yourself the n-word, girls with their butts and not so real cleavages in your face. Is that what the likes of Martin Luther King Jr fought for? I think he fought for the right to education not the aforementioned.


But illiterate blacks have stooped to call themselves the n-word and think it's cool?



But how many of today's African Americans are making use of what their strong and determined heroes fought for? Martin Luther King would turn in his grave if he sees his vision being made a mockery of by you guys. You have the right to go to school, you do not even have to pay for school fees in your public schools, but how many makes it to college or a university? If a black man makes something good out of his life they would say he's acting white. You guys should understand that the whites are not your problem, the problem lies in the African American community.

I agree with much of what you wrote but then you go into some real generalizations that have me wondering is your knowledge about African Americans from T.V. ?

Don't get me wrong Lazy, I live in the US and I do not base my insights on television alone. You say I'm making generalisations but why is it just a handful that makes it to college?

my idea of a " strong black woman"  is -

1. who is proud to of African Culture & Roots, this is eessential because if we are'nt then how will our children be ?
2. a woman who is not afraid to wear her beauty naturally i.e Hair.
3. One who  keeps an eye & ear out for her fellow Afri/Afro brothers & sisters, who wish to progress along any path that she may be able to take them.
4. she opens her mind towards education & opportunity for improvement, for the good of herself & her family.
5. she is forward thinking, & pro-active  within her community.

6. she takes the time to personally teach & nurturer her (& any other) children. instead of relying on others to do this.
7. she does her best to ensure that her family home is welcoming & safe
8. ensures her family meals are healthy & nutritious
9. when she is looking to meet & settle with a partner, she does her level best to observe his ways before she gets involved.

10. she doesn't necessarily dismiss a man,  because he is not as educated - or as wealthy has she is,  she instead looks at the potential in the man, & notes if he is willing to achieve his potential.
11. & if he is - she gently, but surely helps him.

12. she makes her husband & children a priority as opposed to friends & non- progressive commitments
13 she's not afraid of her sexuality with her partner , yet she remains un- promiscuous
14 she realises that each & every African she comes into contact with is a member of her larger family & so greets, respects,  & assists  accordingly.

And the best thing is these qualites can come about, almost effortlessly from an Afri/Afro woman because I believe we posses them quite naturally. some of us just need to exercise them a little more often

I could go on , but I'm running out of paper

stillwater:

Don't get me wrong Lazy, I live in the US and I do not base my insights on television alone. You say I'm making generalisations but why is it just a handful that makes it to college?

Oh, You are in the States. The only reason I said that is I know many African Americans that went to college and it seems like you may not. I think that the real issue is more with the African American males in handfuls going to college because the African American women go to college at a rate similar to other groups.

@ DRKCHOCLIt, i do understand ur point n while i dont believe Black men should act d way they do, I do know that u r saying d truth, n we all need to understand that it is not easy.

Our Black Americans have tried, they r making a lot of mistake, but they have.
We in Africa did not go through half of what they did, n yet Africa is still somewhat suffering d effect of d white mans entrant!.

We r one Sistahs n Brothas!, stop judging!!!!!!