A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I - Religion (10) - Nairaland
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Is It Rational To Believe In Afterlife [A Discussion] / Songs Of The Worlds By Johnydon22 / The Untold Story of Job By Johnydon22 (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 12:12pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: Mallam how far. I gave you another evidence you didn't reply why? |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:12pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: God is uncreated - he has no beginning and has always existed . Isn't it funny how the "primitive minds" came up with that ? How could they understand that an entity that exists outside the universe made it . I mean according to you guys , though they are misconceptions, that these people didnt know that the earth was round and even had no knowledge of the universe  |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 12:13pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: The Grail Message is not a Religion... It is an enlightenment book.. Send to my mail. Oladotunhero@gmail.com |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:18pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: According to Bible Hub's explanation : For in much wisdom is much grief - The more we know of ourselves the less satisfied shall we be with our own hearts; and the more we know of mankind the less willing shall we be to trust them, and the less shall we admire them. Be that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow - And why so? Because, independently of God, the principal objects of knowledge are natural and moral evils. Apparently you decided to give your own translation to suite the desperation . Speaks volume
Lol ... what does this even mean ? How does this kill curiosity ? |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 12:19pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101: Because i find it outrightly ridiculous to indulge in such Childish yarn again or more inner eyes saw a crying woman claim... No offence.. If you can muster a better argument then let me hear it... I will advice everybody to read this http://usvsth3m.com/post/ouija-boards-arent-really-supernatural-they-were-invented-as-board-game-in-the-19th-century Ouija board was just a board game people ascribe to supernatural yarns throwing bolting them in such stupendous delusion 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by TheDauraMallam: 12:21pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
God is uncreated Can't be proven in the 21st century but could talk to Abraham and Moses, who were shepherds. What The Fu.cck! KingEbukasBlog, read my signature |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 12:27pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
johnydon22: Better argument about afterlife,yet you can't experiment with the one i gave... Why don't you make a Ouija board yourself and see if anything happens.. It with utter disdain i write this because i held in you in high xteem.. Belief you experience something before you claim it to be childish? Shm |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:28pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: You are really unintelligent . Can you show that life needs no creator ? How and Why |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by TheDauraMallam: 12:30pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: I am done with you for today. |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:31pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101: Apparently it takes more faith to be an atheist than to be religious . Johnydon22 believes he does not need to experience it to ascertain if its true or attest to its validity . Im really learning new things  1 Like |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 12:32pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101: Can't believe you are still ruminating over this Ouija board nonsense.. http://usvsth3m.com/post/ouija-boards-arent-really-supernatural-they-were-invented-as-board-game-in-the-19th-century https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija Don't like copying and pasting, so people should read it. . .That you fall for such cheap toys remains a product of your own gullibility 3 Likes 3 Shares |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 12:33pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: You are on Point 1 Like |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 12:37pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
johnydon22:[size=18pt] t[i]he Ouija board was regarded as an innocent parlor game unrelated to the occult until American Spiritualist Pearl Curran popularized its use as a divining tool during World War I.[3] Paranormal and supernatural beliefs associated with Ouija have been harshly criticized by the scientific community, since they are characterized as pseudoscience. The action of the board can be parsimoniously explained by unconscious movements of those controlling the pointer, a psychophysiological phenomenon known as the ideomotor effect.[4][5][ I believe you never read the wiki u share Scientific investigationEdit The Ouija phenomenon is considered by the scientific community to be the result of the ideomotor response.[4][14][15][16] Various studies have been produced, recreating the effects of the Ouija board in the lab and showing that, under laboratory conditions, the subjects were moving the planchette involuntarily.[14][17] Skeptics have described Ouija board users as 'operators'.[18] Some critics noted that the messages ostensibly spelled out by spirits were similar to whatever was going through the minds of the subjects.[19] According to Professor of neurology Terence Hines in his book Pseudoscience and the Paranormal (2003): The planchette is guided by unconscious muscular exertions like those responsible for table movement. Nonetheless, in both cases, the illusion that the object (table or planchette) is moving under its own control is often extremely powerful and sufficient to convince many people that spirits are truly at work... The unconscious muscle movements responsible for the moving tables and Ouija board phenomena seen at seances are examples of a class of phenomena due to what psychologists call a dissociative state. A dissociative state is one in which consciousness is somehow divided or cut off from some aspects of the individual’s normal cognitive, motor, or sensory functions.[20] In the 1970s Ouija board users were also described as "cult members" by sociologists, though this was severely scrutinised in the field.[21] The National Geographic show Brain Games ran an episode that clearly showed the board did not work when all participants were blindfolded.[22] Ouija boards have been criticized in the press since their inception, having been variously described as "'vestigial remains' of primitive belief-systems" and a con to part fools from their money.[23][24] Some journalists have described reports of Ouija board findings as 'half truths' and have suggested that their inclusion in national newspapers lowers the national discourse overall.[25] [/i][/size] |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:39pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: Coward . You awoke a sleeping lion and couldn't stand the chase ? You first called me a fool and when I scrutinized your statement you claimed it was a typo . I confirmed artificial intelligence as a design as it emulates nature - an evidence - and asked why this isn't so for our material universe this including complexity of natural systems , life forms , biological processes and even body parts . You didnt give me something tangible . You asked since nature and life are created then who created the creator . I then explained that God is uncreated so its illogical to ask who made God . You now claimed God is unproven and I asked you to explain how and why life does not need a creator . And I'm still waiting for my reply 1 Like |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 12:40pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101:[size=20] Ouija Boards aren’t really supernatural, they were invented as a novelty board game in the 1800s Ouija Boards are in the news again, due to the sad story of mother Margaret Carroll and her daughter Katrina Livingstone The duo are critically ill in hospital after a fire at their home, which reportedly followed a Ouija Board session where they had tried to contact the spirit of their dead dog – which had allegedly “predicted their deaths”. Margaret’s husband, Paul Carroll, is awaiting sentencing after admitting causing unnecessary suffering to a dog he dismembered. He originally claimed the dog had died after becoming possessed following another Ouija Board session. So far, so bizarre – yet another weird story about people playing with the occult. It seems like Ouija Boards have always been with us, doesn’t it? In reality, they’re a manufactured thing – and a relatively recent invention at that. What’s more, were never really intended to be used in the way they are now. Elijah Bond, from Baltimore, was granted the patent for his Ouija Board “Toy or Game” in 1891 It wasn’t intended as a serious entry point to the supernatural at all, just a mild diversion, possibly leaping on the penchant at the time for all things Ancient Egyptian. Oui and Ja are the French and German words for Yes, but when combined sound remarkably like the Egyptian word for Luck. So it was sometimes called an Egyptian Luck Board. Bond’s patent read: It was meant as a bit of joke: no more supernatural than the powers of prediction which are ascribed to a magic 8-ball The Ouija Board was originally manufactured in Baltimore by the Kennard Novelty Company. To this day it is manufactured under patent by Parker Brothers, a subsidiary of Hasbro, producers of Transfomers, Mr Potato Head, My Little Pony and Play-Doh. Parker Brothers maintains it is just a board game. The current version is glow-in-the-dark. Clearly all serious occult equipment should glow green. There are two major reasons why idiots the world over now credit the Ouija Board with special powers: 1. The first is a woman called Pearl Curran, a Missouri writer and spiritualist Starting in 1913, Pearl claimed she used her Ouija Board to channel the spirit of an 17th Century Dorsetshire woman called Patience Worth, who had emigrated to St. Louis America. Records indicate no such person ever existed. Nonetheless, this didn’t stop Pearl publishing several pieces of writing “by” Patience and generally popularising the use of the Ouija Board for people trying to contact the dead. Something it was never actually intended for. Pearl Curran in 1919 Pearl’s fame was increased due to the publishing of multiple contemporaneous books about her story, at a time where spiritualism was on the increase 2. The second is a real, recognised and proven psychological phenomenon called collective automatism. Also known as a collective ideomotor response, it means then when you’re playing with a Ouija Board, the people holding the indicator (or planchette) collectively influence its movement without being consciously aware of doing so. Essentially, you are minutely pushing the indicator, without knowing, because of your subconscious telling you to do so. When there’s more than one person involved, a level of crowd social behaviour takes precedence. This means that even if there is a dominant movement from one participant, that will guide the movement of the others as they view and copy. This is all done on a minute level and completely subconsciously. Gullible people are convinced that this completely explicable movement is the power of spirits making the indicator move It isn’t. Pic: Hasbro There is nothing supernatural about it, it’s just what made the game work. The phenomenon was first explained way back in 1852, in a paper presented by Dr William B Carpenter at the Royal Institution of Great Britain. Not particularly spooky at all.[/size] |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 12:47pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
johnydon22: i read that also check this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdoKgXPi9C8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kCHtl7BqNo http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Ouija-Board-True-Story-History-35962378 i have scanned the internet but can't find where this man paper work is The phenomenon was first explained way back in 1852, in a paper presented by Dr William B Carpenter at the Royal Institution of Great Britain. http://paranormal.about.com/od/ouijaboards/fl/Tales-of-the-Ouija.htm |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 12:50pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
The Ouija phenomenon is considered by the Surely enough you are the one who didn't read because if you did you would have read where it was shown that Ouija boards are being moved by the subject as a result of Ideomotor response.. Ideomotor response : Ideomotor phenomenon is a psychological phenomenon wherein a subject makes motions unconsciously.. You are the one moving the board without knowing it and blaming it on a spirity bullcrap.. Maybe you need to check your pills and stop disgracing yourself with this Ouija board mumbo jumbo.. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 12:57pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101:[b] Am sure you have been shown you the user is the one moving thr Ouija board without knowing it.. You copied and pasted the wikipedia link without even going through it to know exactly what it said. It read " The Ouija phenomenon is considered by the scientific community to be the result of the ideomotor response. Various studies have been produced, recreating the effects of the Ouija board in the lab and showing that, under laboratory conditions, the subjects were moving the planchette involuntarily. ..Hewn from what you pasted up there. Ideomotor or automatism is a psychological phenomenon, where the Subject moves without knowing it... Ouija board have been shown to be using this same mechanism and you are the one moving the pointer and not your spirity individual claim. Maybe you should start reading things before throwing out junked nonsensical claims in public, you only sell off your own stark gullibility in falling for cheap toys Like i rightly pointed out that you are gullible enough for this only has betrayed your own sheepishness in what you subscribe to.. This ouija board nonsense i must say has become really demeaning..[/b] 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by TheDauraMallam: 2:17pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: You're the one laying claims for a God that can't prove himself. It's up to you to prove him/it/the afterlife for us. Not for me to prove otherwise. Again, your reasoning has failed you. OK, let me assume I need to prove how life doesn't need a creator. I don't know. Yeah, the big bang and all those floating theories still have a lot of unanswered questions. However I will not use a plausible God (that can't be proven) to fill the gaps of our argument. Some questions with not be answered for a hundred more years or even thousands, and the realization of that fact is what makes a sane mind, not your trite God's of Gaps argument. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by KingEbukasBlog(m): 2:36pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: There is no such thing as God-of -the-gaps . God actually did , science explains how . If I dont understand how a button on the remote of a Sharp TV set works , does it preclude the fact that Sharp Corporation manufactured it ? If you don't understand a certain phenomenon in nature ,study to find it out , it does not mean God did not do it . Na wa oo |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 3:16pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
johnydon22: You forgot about this The planchette is guided by unconscious muscular exertions like those responsible for table movement. Nonetheless, in both cases, the illusion that the object (table or planchette) is moving under its own control is often extremely powerful and sufficient to convince many people that spirits are truly at work... The unconscious muscle movements responsible for the moving tables and Ouija board phenomena seen at seances are examples of a class of phenomena due to what psychologists call a dissociative state. A dissociative state is one in which consciousness is somehow divided or cut off from some aspects of the individual’s normal cognitive, motor, or sensory functions.[20] |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 3:41pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101: You see, the ILLUSION that the board is moving on its own is what convinces you that spirits are at work which is why i said you should read before posting because this just proves everything i have said above. The board is moved by the person using it without knowing it and so the person thinks the board is moving itself and so spirits are doing it without knowing he is responsible for it.. Can it get any simpler? Thanks for posting this...
This is exactly the point You see the subconscious movement of the board without knowing it is a psychological phenomenon and nothing ominous about it.. The subject moves the board then thinks a spirit did without knowing he did... Haven't this show that by falling for this trick my assertion above is correct, it centers on your own stark gullibility.. Now am sure this puts it to a total rest... Ouija board is not moved by any spirity stuff but by the person using it.. Thanks for posting more works that proves my position more... Now we can give this ridiculous Ouija board brouhaha a rest... 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 3:47pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
johnydon22: What do you have to say about the dissociative part.. That is where i want you to talk on |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by TheDauraMallam: 4:56pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: OK.  |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by geesampower(m): 6:36pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101: Gone through the thread. It was interesting, but equally annoying. So many red herring tactics. You fail to keep the conversation in line. From ouija boards to your "inner" eyes seeing a spirit to micro organisms. Why don't you follow any of your analogies to a logical conclusion before jumping to another. You seem desperate to say the least. John asked a very good question; you saw a spirit in clothing, so does this mean cloths have spirits too? Why was the spirit or soul or what ever you saw, why did it not have a mobile phone too? Can you see the white skeleton in your body? But you know you have a skeletal frame, you know you must have a kidney, same with the microbes. They are physical entities that can be verified at any time. You don't need analogies or inferences to prove them. They are proves of them selves. You want to prove the existence of your femur right now, just take a knife and cut deep into your thigh. You will find your femur right there as proof of it's own existence. As a kid shadows, flares and reflection of lights in my peripheral vision were perceived as ghosts and demons. Ask any kid that has been exposed to movies with ghosts and stuff, they would strongly believe in their existence and claim they have seen ghosts too. I have claimed to see ghosts many times as a kid. I was 100% sure of their validity. I believe we all passed through that stage in our lives. Growing up, you either outgrow this or you give credence to your paranoia. Same goes for the ouija board, it is nothing more than a mirror to your mind, you see what you wanna see, just like looking at the clouds and making sense of random shapes the cloud forms, you will always make sense of the random pattern the cloud makes if you open your mind to it. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by johnydon22(m): 8:34pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Remilekun101: I believe that sentence was very self explanatory and clear... A dissociative state is one in which consciousness is somehow divided or cut off from some aspects of the individual’s normal cognitive, motor, or sensory functions. This was still addressing the state of ideomotor because the person's consciousness is in a sub state, cognitive ability, perceptibility and volition and willful motor control is not in a normal state and so the subject is in a state of ideomotor... (His body is moving but in this state he cannot perceive it is.. The sentence was quite clear. . .It was addressing the state of Automatism/Ideomotor... 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by geesampower(m): 7:48am On Nov 13, 2015 |
Remilekun101:So why does it not work when users are blindfolded. Please stop beating a dead horse. I am sure the inventor if alive would be amused at your kind who took his TOY so serious. This thread would only lead to brain drain. Seems like a discussion of desperate primary school pupils. I apologize for commenting on your thread, I just cldnt help it. I am really bewildered at how primitive and disjointed the arguments presented in favor of afterlife are. At the beginning I was excited, thought you had a ground breaking discovery to share. But here we are with TOYS as proof of after life. Again I apologize for commenting. Off I go 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by geesampower(m): 8:13am On Nov 13, 2015 |
johnydon22:Well done o. You really have time for all these. But I understand, if you don't answer their questions regardless of how silly it is, it would be presumed you've been proven wrong. But honestly you don't have to. As I said earlier, this sort of argument only lead to brain drain. There is nothing to gain from it. This is not a discussion this is a "I MUST PROVE HIM WRONG" sort of argument. Explain all you want to, you are just wasting your time. One day I was burning some trash and as I stood there staring at the flames I heard a voice loud and clear. The voice told me all sinners would burn in hell. That happened when I was a kid. I've had a dream of me and jesus living happily in heaven. Lol, so what? Does my dream of a talking pencil also prove pencils talk, or my dreams of mickey mouse and I playing prove the existence of mickey mouse? All these I tell you are true, but they don't prove anything. Dreams and "voices" in our heard are all products or our thoughts, which are products of what we hear, read etc. I used to have sleep paralysis some 6 years ago, when ever it happens I feel I am struggling with a demon, a female demon to be precise. I stopped believing in demons and all these bull crap about 5yrs ago. I researched sleep paralysis and got to know the cause (has nothing to do with demons of cos) I realized it happens when ever I sleep very late and I try to wake up before having enough sleep. Since then I sleep on time so I don't have to force my self to wake up before having adequate sleep (which my body fights and caused the sleep paralysis). That was the end, no prayers, no deliverance. I got the impression they were demons cos of what I hear in church, people giving testimonies about demons pressing them in their sleep and how "God" saved them from the demon. Our minds can be very funny, tell a kid there is "ojuju" in a dark empty room and his mind would create the image of the "ojuju" vividly to the extent he would believe he can see it physically. You can even influence how the "ojuju" would look like. Tell the kid it has horns and he would see one with horns, tell the kid it has a tail and he would see it with a tail. This works for ANY kid. Just don't look like you are playing. Tell the kid with all seriousness and he would see whatever you describe. Leave such a kid with this impressed on him and his mind would create more demons of different shapes and sizes. Reason why I laugh at the so called cockville miracle many are excited about. An impressionable mind only needs suggestions and the mind would do the rest. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by frank317: 8:17am On Nov 13, 2015 |
geesampower: Lol...i magine the embarrassment. And he fails to explain how his crying ghost wore spiritual cloths. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by geesampower(m): 8:23am On Nov 13, 2015 |
frank317:It is just plain ridiculous. Just the other day in PH (story was on FP) a whole permanent secretary of the ministry of agriculture believed a white rabbit under his car was a witch and workers even closed early on that day to run home. Smh 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by UyiIredia(m): 8:31am On Nov 13, 2015 |
TheDauraMallam: Those believers you listed all believe in God the vary on specifics of how to worship Him and daily living. |
| Re: A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I by Remilekun101: 8:45am On Nov 13, 2015 |
johnydon22: Even though i agree that it is Automatism. what about PHYSICAL EVIDENCES below check here: http://thoughtcatalog.com/christine-stockton/2014/03/terrifying-true-tales-of-people-messing-around-with-ouija-boards/ 14. Photos of what it did http://i.imgur.com/FssFx.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PSSqa.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z3xIv.jpg These are the photos of what happened to me after using a homemade Ouija Board tonight. We asked a variety of questions asking the spirit if it was the one who had scratched by chest which had been done prior to using the board. It replied yes and it said that it was “here” for “me” and that it was not going to leave. I pray that it will. we also need to ask ourselves why Automatism works only in the case of Ouija Board. |
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