DoctorAlien:


So you mean there are "living souls" now which are trapped in the sea, and which the sea will give up at the end?

very good question.

Scholar8200:

because the soul has these faculties.

then a man is a soul, cos these attributes belong to earthling man .

have u seen your imaginary soul before ? if no, u cant just give human attributes to a non existing entity .

two hands, two feet , two eyes is description of man. expecially the tongue . prove is everywhere. u re a living proof check yourself

That is why souls of people beheaded on earth were found CRYING to God in Heaven in Rev. 6. since they were beheaded on earth, then there should be no head to cry with but NO!
Now if beheaded men were found with heads crying in Heaven, then the Lazarus story is obviously literal!

who told u they are found with head ? must u lie ? i will take u serious if u also belive Death riding a horse in that same chapter 6 is literal, so also Hades running after the horse of death and stars falling upon the earth . once u belive this as literal , then i will take u serious

Jozzy4:


ur runaway tactic as usual ,

if u examine Isaiah 34:9,10 , you will see how much it parallels with Rev 14:10,11

both talk about burning day and night, and smoke ascending forever , which begs the question : was the Land of Edom cast into hellfire? or was it destroyed ? the knowledge of this can greatly help a bible student to understand the same context at Rev 14:10,11

Runaway tactic? Now that passage and its context has nothing to do with the final judgement that the others I have quoted hitherto deals with! Why not seek for passages relevant to the issue - hell and the soul? The Bible is replete with such!

what does this passage got to do with what is been discussed ? the context shows Jesus is discussing THE RESSURECTION. matt 22:31, therefore base on this hope, God could view his friends as alive though in reality they are dead

But Jesus categorically said God is not the God of the dead but of the living! That's no viewing or assumption but a fact!

For those who insist this doesnt mean ressurection but that they are actual living , the question : they are exactly Alive , at where ?

Where Elijah and Moses came from on the mount; where Elijah and Enoch were carried to; where Abraham and Lazarus were found after the death of the latter!

Scholar8200:
Runaway tactic? Now that passage and its context has nothing to do with the final judgement that the others I have quoted hitherto deals with! Why not seek for passages relevant to the issue - hell and the soul? The Bible is replete with such!



But Jesus categorically said God is not the God of the dead but of the living! That's no viewing or assumption but a fact!


Where Elijah and Moses came from on the mount; where Elijah and Enoch were carried to; where Abraham and Lazarus were found after the death of the latter!

where exactly ?

goodnews201668:


This story is a parable not a real life event.

Jesus made use of many parables like the merchant, sowing of seed, virgirns.
All these weren't real or real events.

Concerning Jesus the Bible said:

Matthew 13:34-35English Standard Version (ESV)
Prophecy and Parables

34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:[a]

“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”
Footnotes:

Matthew 13:35 Some manuscripts Isaiah the prophet.

So we know why Jesus teaches with illustrations, word pictures and hyperbolic stories.

Did you see the highlighted?

Now answer me this:
When Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the needles eye than for a rich man yo enter in God's kingdom,
Was Jesus saying that a camel can pass through the needle's eyes?

Again does it mean that a rich must wait for a Carmel to pass through the needle's eye before he can attain the kingdom?

Please i am waiting for answers.

Let's see:


23 Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who are wealthy [and cling to possessions and status as security] to enter the kingdom of God!”

24 The disciples were [e]amazed and bewildered by His words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is [for those who place their hope and confidence in riches] to enter the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man [who places his faith in wealth or status] to enter the kingdom of God.


22 But the man was saddened at Jesus’ words, and he left grieving, because he owned much property and had many possessions [which he treasured more than his relationship with God].

Mark 10:23-25,22

It is not far fetched; the background to that saying is in vs 22, the rich man like others in his shoes, treasured riches more than a relationship with God hence he would not follow Jesus and Jesus revealed that this was the problem of many a rich man. Notice vs 24 highlighted.

That is why Paul spoke of contentment because they that would be rich fall into temptations and a snare and into many foolish and hurtful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. This is illustrated by the difficulty with which a Camel passes through the eye of the needle (a small gate at the city entrance) it wont be possible except the Camel is stripped of all his load (wealth).

DoctorAlien:


The Bible tells us where man (both righteous and wicked) goes at death. See Eccl. 9:10.

Is Abraham's bosom the grave?

That place talks of the interment of the flesh. Just as both the rich man and Lazarus were interred but there destinations were different.

DoctorAlien:


If Jesus was talking about the fate of man at death in the story of Lazarus, does it mean righteous people are taken to Abraham's bosom at death?

Just as Jesus told the thief on the Cross, ," this day thou shalt be with Me in paradise". However, after the resurrection of Christ, what we find is that such go to Heaven (Rev. 6).

DoctorAlien:


"He that believeth on the Son [size=14pt]hath[/size] everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him" Jn.3:36

If you claim the wicked will be alive forever burning somewhere, how come the Bible says the wicked will not see life?

Note that it did not say he will have Eternal Life; he has it already as a present experience and possession. Hence when it says the wicked will not see life, it simply means they dont have the Life of God in them as this Life is in the Son and He it is in Whom was, and is Life.

Scholar8200:
That place talks of the interment of the flesh. Just as both the rich man and Lazarus were interred but there destinations were different.

Eccl. 9:10 does not say "where your flesh is being interred". It says "whither thou goest". Man is going to the grave!

Also, does the Bible indicate any "change of destination" in death? Man and animal go to the same place at death.[email]

Scholar8200:
That place talks of the interment of the flesh. Just as both the rich man and Lazarus were interred but there destinations were different.

Eccl. 9:10 does not say "where your flesh is being interred". It says "whither thou goest". Man is going to the grave!

Also, does the Bible indicate any "change of destination" in death? Man and animal go to the same place at death.[/email]

Scholar8200:
That place talks of the interment of the flesh. Just as both the rich man and Lazarus were interred but there destinations were different.

Eccl. 9:10 does not say "where your flesh is being interred". It says "whither thou goest". Man is going to the grave!

Also, does the Bible indicate any "change of destination" in death? Man and animal go to the same place at death.

DoctorAlien:


Psalm 37:9,10 talks about the obliteration of the wicked. How is it you say annihilation is a fallacy?

For those who do evil will be cut off,
But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land.
10
For yet a little while and the wicked one will be gone [forever];
Though you look carefully where he used to be, he will not be [found].
Psalm 37:,10
The highlighted speaks of an absence from the face of the Earth.

Now see:

The wicked shall be turned into hell,
and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17

We all know that all men die hence this passage is not referring to the Grave but to an exclusive preserve for the wicked - the PIT (bottomless Revelations 9:1,2)

Here is Strong's concordance on the word hell there:

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
grave, hell, pit

Meaning the word Sheol has synonyms and the context tells us which applies. If Sheol=Grave only, then that passage will be wrong to claim that ONLY THE WICKED and THOSE THAT FORGET GOD will be turned therein!

Scholar8200:
That place talks of the interment of the flesh. Just as both the rich man and Lazarus were interred but there destinations were different.

Eccl. 9:10 does not say "where your flesh is being interred". It says "whither thou goest". Man is going to the grave!

Also, does the Bible indicate any "change of destination" in death? Man and animal go to the same place at death.

Man and animal have one destination in death. See Eccl. 3:19-22. Now, are animals carried to Heaven too?

DoctorAlien:


You have not answered my question: what scene is Malachi 4:1,3 talking about, if it is not the judgment day?

I have answered your question.

DoctorAlien:


The bolded part: really?

See Psalm 37:9,10. The wicked will be NO MORE! They will CEASE TO EXIST! Please, is this not the definition of annihilation?

I see! So the fire will annihilate man but preserve worms alive!!!

DoctorAlien:


See Rev. 20:8,9. Satan mobilizes them against GOD. Fire descends and devours them. After devouring, is there anything remaining?

Also, Ezekiel 28:13-18 talks about Satan being burnt to ashes.

What are you saying?

Ezekiel 28 has a double application first to a human king of Tyrus hence we need to gain a better view from other passages to understand the end of the ultimate reference eg Revelation 20.

Scholar8200:
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Psalm 9:17

Does that verse say the wicked will be alive burning forever?

Scholar8200:

Ezekiel 28 has a double application first to a human king of Tyrus hence we need to gain a better view from other passages to understand the end of the ultimate reference eg Revelation 20.

Please, who is Ezekiel 28:13-18 talking about if not Satan?

Was the king of Tyrus in Eden? Or was he GOD's covering cherub?

Scholar8200:

Ezekiel 28 has a double application first to a human king of Tyrus hence we need to gain a better view from other passages to understand the end of the ultimate reference eg Revelation 20.

Please answer my question: According to Ezekiel 28:13-18, Satan will be burnt to ashes. How is it you claim he will be alive burning forever? Or can ashes be alive?

Scholar8200:
Did you see the highlighted?


Let's see:


23 Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who are wealthy [and cling to possessions and status as security] to enter the kingdom of God!”

24 The disciples were [e]amazed and bewildered by His words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is [for those who place their hope and confidence in riches] to enter the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man [who places his faith in wealth or status] to enter the kingdom of God.


22 But the man was saddened at Jesus’ words, and he left grieving, because he owned much property and had many possessions [which he treasured more than his relationship with God].

Mark 10:23-25,22

It is not far fetched; the background to that saying is in vs 22, the rich man like others in his shoes, treasured riches more than a relationship with God hence he would not follow Jesus and Jesus revealed that this was the problem of many a rich man. Notice vs 24 highlighted.

That is why Paul spoke of contentment because they that would be rich fall into temptations and a snare and into many foolish and hurtful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. This is illustrated by the difficulty with which a Camel passes through the eye of the needle (a small gate at the city entrance) it wont be possible except the Camel is stripped of all his load (wealth).

You still alluded to the fact that it's a parable, whichever way you look at it.
It doesn't necessarily has to be a real event.
It's symbolic, that's why it's a parable.
There's no way a camel can pass through the needle's eye, so the parable illustrates how difficult it is for a rich man or wealthy to be conscious spiritually.
Not a real event just like the other parables!

DoctorAlien:


Does that verse say the wicked will be alive burning forever?

The fact that the Psalmist speaks of a place for the wicked and the enemies of God (not as a place of rest but a retribution for their rejection of God) perfectly agrees with the view given in the New Testament of a place of torment

DoctorAlien:


Eccl. 9:10 does not say "where your flesh is being interred". It says "whither thou goest". Man is going to the grave!

Also, does the Bible indicate any "change of destination" in death? Man and animal go to the same place at death.

Man and animal have one destination in death. See Eccl. 3:19-22. Now, are animals carried to Heaven too?

Cross check this with Psalm 9:17, will the righteous and wicked head to the same place going by the tenor of Palm 9:17?

Scholar8200:
I see! So the fire will annihilate man but preserve worms alive!!!

You and worm again, where did you see worm?
Worm is in Gehenna not in hell.

Scholar8200:
The fact that the Psalmist speaks of a place for the wicked and the enemies of God (not as a place of rest but a retribution for their rejection of God) perfectly agrees with the view given in the New Testament of a place of torment

Does the Psalmist say the wicked will be alive burning forever?

Scholar8200:
I see! So the fire will annihilate man but preserve worms alive!!!

You and worm again, where did you see worm?
Worm is in Gehenna not in hell.
Stop mixing things up.
So you can understand the Bible!

Jozzy4:


then a man is a soul, cos these attributes belong to earthling man .

have u seen your imaginary soul before ? if no, u cant just give human attributes to a non existing entity .

two hands, two feet , two eyes is description of man. expecially the tongue . prove is everywhere. u re a living proof check yourself



who told u they are found with head ? must u lie ? i will take u serious if u also belive Death riding a horse in that same chapter 6 is literal, so also Hades running after the horse of death and stars falling upon the earth . once u belive this as literal , then i will take u serious

Go take your Bible serious. The rich man asked for water to cool his tongue and even requested Lazarus deep his finger!
Jesus said these, not me!

Scholar8200:
Cross check this with Psalm 9:17, will the righteous and wicked head to the same place going by the tenor of Palm 9:17?

"The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget GOD" Psalm 9:17.

Definitely, the wicked will be turned into hell. GOD will rain fire and brimstone upon them.

But does this verse say "immediately after their death?"

Scholar8200:
Go take your Bible serious. The rich man asked for water to cool his tongue and even requested Lazarus deep his finger!
Jesus said these, not me!

So righteous people are carried to Abraham's bosom at death?

Scholar8200:
I see! So the fire will annihilate man but preserve worms alive!!!

Who is talking about worm? Worm is not mentioned in Psalm 37:9,10. The wicked will BE NO MORE!

Where is this mysterious place you said they are going?

Scholar8200:
I have answered your question.

What scene is Malachi 4:1,3 describing if not the judgment day?

Scholar8200:
Go take your Bible serious. The rich man asked for water to cool his tongue and even requested Lazarus deep his finger!
Jesus said these, not me!

Will eternity for righteous people be such that the wicked (supposedly also alive forever) will be within earshot disturbing their communion with GOD with their constant cries and be them begging for water?

The rich man begged to have somebody be sent to warn his brothers on earth. Who will the wicked beg to be sent and to whom are they going to be sent?

Scholar8200:
Go take your Bible serious. The rich man asked for water to cool his tongue and even requested Lazarus deep his finger!

Jesus said these, not me!

you are confuse man, the rich MAN not the rich ghost or rich immaterial soul . RIch MAN , MAN, MAN , MAN
chai , religion na brainwashing o

Jesus descriptions are human , clear . not the nonsense u are reading into it

Jozzy4:


you are confuse man, the rich MAN not the rich ghost or rich immaterial soul . RIch MAN , MAN, MAN , MAN

Jesus descriptions are human , clear . not the nonsense u are reading into it

J

Scholar8200:
Go take your Bible serious. The rich man asked for water to cool his tongue and even requested Lazarus deep his finger!
Jesus said these, not me!

Those are parable not real event.
According to John 3:13 Jesus says no man has ascended to heaven except him that came down from heaven.
So neither Lazarus nor Abraham was in heaven when Jesus narrated the story.
If jesus story were to be taken literal it means someone in hellfire can see someone in heaven.
It also means someone in hellfire can as well talk to someone in heaven.