You were quick at giving me John 14 v 7 but ignored
the part where Jesus said God was greater than him

We read in John 1:1 that in the beginning Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. There is also John 10:30 where Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” We can see from scripture that although Jesus is God, just as the Father is God, the Father holds a higher ‘office’ than the Son. This does not mean that the Father is God and the other persons of the Trinity are not. Just as an earthly father is equally human with, but holds a higher office than his son, even so the Father and the Son in the Trinity are equal in essence, but different in function. In like manner, we speak of the president of our country as being a greater man, not by virtue of his character, but by virtue of his position. Therefore, Jesus cannot ever be said to say that He considered Himself anything less than God by nature.

I meant that he happened to be ambassador, representative and that happened to all prophets as well and not only him.

Hey dude, stop twisting ur words


You can see that I have taken my time to reply to your questions. Are you ready to answer mine?

Nezan, you are supposed to address the John verse that says that God is greater than Jesus, first, from the mouth of Jesus, before you jump like forest fire o another part of John! Unless you can say that the first verse from jesus was abrogated by the new verse. One will ask, why eave it there since it is no go anymore. Unless you are now copying the Quran as to abrogations?

@Olabowale,

I believe you did not read through my rigorous thesis? You shouldnt have been asking that question.

For us Christians, the Bible flows, that is why you can not take a verse in isolation, the meaning will imply itself from the following verses. That was why Jesus fulfilled the scriptures that were even written in the O.T.

As for abrogation, our God never claim to have three daughters and recanted, show me the abrogated verses and I will open up again on what you muslims hate to discuss- the satanic verses

Your people have been deleting my posts on that, you know?

@Nezan

Mark 2.5ff: When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." 6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" 8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins, "--A rather strong statement of divine authority, and the context SHOWS that it was a blasphemous assertion IF He was NOT God!. Notice that He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

Did Matthew write the gospel really?
If Jesus could solely forgive sin without God's intervention, why did he say in John 8:28 that "I do nothing of myself"?

@Nezan

[bJesus raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:14)[/b]

Oga, let us discuss in a mature way. I asked why didnt he wake up the dead when his disciple told him about a dead person but rather told them that they should allow the dead to bury their dead?

“Who has believed what they heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors” (Isaiah 53:1-12). He likened the coming Sacrifice to a lamb, slaughtered for the sins of others.

Note my highlighted words please and tell me how it referred to Jesus:


"When we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, and we hid our faces from him: he was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the punishment that brought us peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep, have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, but the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. [b]He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the living. For the transgressions of my people was he stricken. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him. He has put him to grief: When you shall make his soul an offering (sacrifice) for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied. By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many (not ALL!), for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he has poured out his soul unto death and was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53).

Hundreds of years later, Isaiah’s prophecy was fulfilled in the perfect Lord Jesus, born of the virgin Mary. When the prophet John the Baptist saw Him, he cried, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). Crowds thronged Him for healing and teaching, but the religious leaders scorned Him. Mobs cried out, “Crucify Him!” Soldiers beat, mocked, and crucified Him. As Isaiah foretold, Jesus was crucified in between two criminals but was buried in a rich man’s tomb. But He didn’t remain in the grave. Because God accepted His Lamb’s sacrifice, He fulfilled another prophecy by raising Jesus from the dead (Psalm 16:10; Isaiah 26:19).

He didnt even die let alone resurrecting. Can you do the 3 days and three nights calculation for me?

Please bear with me. I would be back later with detailed analysis and exposure of your write up

Oh boy, u are a liar, pls quote for me where jesus said 'i am quoting the book of psalm when i cried with a loud voice' haha, you can only deceive urself

He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the living

[b]The verse you quoted above is Isaiah 53:8, it finds its fulfillment in Matthew 27:

"Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say." And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He did not answer. Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?"

"But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas and to put Jesus to death. But the governor said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." PIlate said to them, "Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" They all said, "Crucify Him!" An he said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But they kept shouting all the more, saying, "crucify Him!"

"When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves." And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified." (Matthew 27:11-13, 20-26)[/b]

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong


This verse is Isaiah 53:12. Beyond doubt, Isaiah 52:12-53:13 refers to Messiah Jesus. He is the one highly exalted before whom kings shut their mouths. Messiah is the shoot who sprung up from the fallen Davidic dynasty. He became the King of Kings. He provided the ultimate atonement.

Ogbeni, you haven't answer my question, i said where is it written that jesus read the psalm when crying

I asked why didnt he wake up the dead when his disciple told him about a dead person but rather told them that they should allow the dead to bury their dead?

Now you are really getting nuts. You mean because Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, he should have gone ahead to raise all dead people when he was on earth?

Let me tell you that mo never raised a dead man to life

According to you, Jesus should continue raising dead people? Dont worry, He will do that when He comes to judge the world.


If Jesus could solely forgive sin without God's intervention, why did he say in John 8:28 that "I do nothing of myself"?

That is part of what we have been saying all along, THE HOLY TRINITY, dude

Can you do the 3 days and three nights calculation for me?

[b]In Old Testament the expression “one day and one night” was an idiom used often by the Jews for a day, even when it was applied to only a part of a day. The Jewish reference to this period as three days and three nights is strictly in accordance with the Jewish mode of reckoning. Evening and morning, or night and day, is the Hebrew phrase for a natural day. It was a maxim among the Jews in computing time, that a part of a day was to be received or computed as the whole.

Christ was dead at three o’clock on Friday, they had before six o’clock, three hours to bury Him. After going through the red tape with the Romans it took less than an hour. The Jewish reckoning of time is found in the Jewish Talmud and the Babylonian Jerusalem Talmud (the commentaries of the Jews), said any part, an “onan”, any part of the day is considered a full day. On Friday before six o'clock by Jewish reckoning, any minute was considered one day and one night. From Friday night at six o'clock to Saturday at six o'clock, was another day and another night. From Saturday night to Sunday was a third day. Thus, Jesus was in the grave part of Friday (a whole “natural day”), through all of Saturday (the second day), and from Saturday at sunset a part of Sunday (the third day). Thus, it is likely that the part of the day (Friday) on which Jesus was crucified, the entire day He was in the grave (Saturday), and the part of the day on which He rose again (Sunday), estimated as entire days. The concept of three days would be an idiom, not necessarily meaning 3 full 24- hour periods.

Genesis 42:17 shows us this idiomatic usage was common in their culture. Joseph had his brothers imprisoned for three days; in v.18, he speaks to them and releases them, on the third day. I Samuel 30:12, 13: “For he had not eaten bread or drunk water for three days and three nights,” and in the next verse, “My master left me behind… three days ago.” There are other instances in the Bible in which part of a day is viewed as constituting a whole. For example, the same quantity of time referred to in the Gospel accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection as three days and three nights, which in reality was only one whole day, a part of two others, and two whole nights, is termed three days and three nights in the book of Esther. Compare Esther 4:16 (“Go , neither eat nor drink three days, night or day . . . and so will I go in unto the king”), with Esther 5:1 (“On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the palace, in front of the king's hall”) this is also found in 2 Chr.10:5, 12; Gen. 42:17-18; 1 Kings 20:29; Luke 2:21.

The Jews were aware of Jesus' prophecy. Matt. 27:63. The fact that the Jews asked that a command be given that the sepulcher be made secure “until the third day” showed that when the Jews spoke of “three days,” Matt. 27:64, they did not of necessity mean three “whole (24) days,” but parts of three days, as was the case of Jesus' lying dead in the grave. [/b]

@Abuzola,

[size=14pt]Jesus came to FULFILL the scriptures, NOT TO QUOTE scriptures[/size]

Can you do the 3 days and three nights calculation for me?

[b]The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day. "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the 'three days and three nights' could permit a Friday crucifixion." This phenomena is exemplified in scripture in the book of Esther. "Go, assemble all the Jews who are found in Susa, and fast for me; do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maidens also will fast in the same way," (Esther 4:16 ). Then, in Esther 5:1 it says, "Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace in front of the king’s rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace." We can see that even though the three days and nights had not been completed, Esther went in to see the King on the third day even though she said to fast for three days and nights. We see that "on the third day" is equivalent to "after three days."

Additionally, Mark 8:31 says, "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." Yet, 1 Cor. 15:4 says, "and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Also, Luke 24:5-7, "and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'" Here we can see that "after three days" is equivalent to mean "on the third day."

Therefore, we can see that because of the Jewish usage of counting any part of a day as the whole of the day, the term "three days and nights" is idiomatic and not literal.[/b]

[size=14pt]@Babs[/size],

[size=14pt]After defending my own, can you tell me more about the satanic verses in the koran?[/size]

babs787:

@Nezan

Did Matthew write the gospel really?
If Jesus could solely forgive sin without God's intervention, why did he say in John 8:28 that "I do nothing of myself"?

The verse did not stop there

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself,
but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he,
and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

@Kola_oyole,

and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things

Yes, because of THE HOLY TRINITY dude, check my earlier post on that.

Now, you tell me the origin of the satanic verses in the koran

Nezan:

@Kola_oyole,

and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things

Yes, because of THE HOLY TRINITY dude, check my earlier post on that.

Now, you tell me the origin of the satanic verses in the koran

@ Nezan

I've been away from the board for a while but I see you've done justice to the questions that were hanging.

Ride on!!!

@Nezan

I promised to be back and expose the verses falsely attributed to Jesus and I here I respond to your posts.


Let me start on my questions on why he couldnt raise the dead and you provided rebuttal below:

Now you are really getting nuts. You mean because Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, he should have gone ahead to raise all dead people when he was on earth?

Point of correction oga, I have not said he should continue raising every dead person but asked you why he couldnt do that but had to ignore the dead. It showed that Jesus could not do anything on his own as he confessed in one of the verses and I would get to you and Kola Oloye there.

If Jesus is the beginning and end as you have been drumming, he should have gone there to wake the dead but it showed that he had to beg God first just like the case where he prayed more than three times to God to remove the cup from his head. He would have stood them without calling on his creatror if he has his own will but you forgot that he was sent by someone and came to do the will of that person as well. If we are to even go further, the bible portrayed him as a hypocrite for praying to God like that having forgotten how he himself told people to pray to God.

Let me tell you that mo never raised a dead man to life.

If you want to discuss Mohammed (saw), create a thread and I would oblige you. Not all prophets raise dead, Noah, Moses etc never did and a prophet did what Jesus never did in which his cloth touched the dead and was brought back to life (read your bible for that)

According to you, Jesus should continue raising dead people? Dont worry, He will do that when He comes to judge the world.

Number one, I have never said that so stop sounding like a weakling sir. I asked why didnt he wake that very dead which showed that he had limited power and has to beg God, seek his permission before doing anything.

Secondly, he would not judge thed world but the creator in which he begged when they wanted to kill and his sweat were like thick blood and also the person he shouted to on the cross that 'why has thou forsaken me' would judge the world.

If Jesus could solely forgive sin without God's intervention, why did he say in John 8:28 that "I do nothing of myself"?

That is part of what we have been saying all along, THE HOLY TRINITY, dude

Are you prepared for trinity sir?

Does your trinity has any biblical backing?

Was it preached by any of the OT prophets?

Did Jesus preach Trinity?

If your Jesus is God, who did he pray to when he learnt that they wanted to kill him?

In "The Dictionary of the Bible," John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899 bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), we read:

"THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF.[/b]


[b]This polytheistic (believing in more than one god) Trinitarianism was intertwined with Greek religion and philosophy and slowly worked its way into Christian thought and creeds some 300 years after Jesus. The idea of "God the Son" is Babylonian paganism and mythology that was grafted into Christianity[/b]. Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity. [b]


Hold, still coming please

@Nezan


I asked this:

Where did he claim to come and die for your sins

You replied:

From Adam to Jesus, God sent prophets to mankind, warning them of sin’s punishment and foretelling the coming Messiah. One prophet, Isaiah, described Him:

“Who has believed what they heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors” (Isaiah 53:1-12). He likened the coming Sacrifice to a lamb, slaughtered for the sins of others.

Let us read the verses:

ISAIAH 53 V 1-12

1 Who has believed our message
       and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
       and like a root out of dry ground.
       He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
       nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
       a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
       Like one from whom men hide their faces
       he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
       and carried our sorrows,
       yet we considered him stricken by God,
       smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
       he was crushed for our iniquities;
       the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
       and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
       each of us has turned to his own way;
       and the LORD has laid on him
       the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
       yet he did not open his mouth;
       he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
       and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
       so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
       And who can speak of his descendants?
       For he was cut off from the land of the living;
       for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
       and with the rich in his death,
       though he had done no violence,
       nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
       and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
       he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
       and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
       he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;
       by his knowledge [f] [b]my righteous servant will justify many,
       and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]
       and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]
       because he poured out his life unto death,
       and was numbered with the transgressors.
       For he bore the sin of many,
       and made intercession for the transgressors.

BTW, you people claim that he is not servant so come you are linking the verses to him?

The real prophecy starts at Isaiah 52 v 13 where God said that:[/b]

See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.

[b]
The prophecy starts from 52 v 15 thus:[/color]

13 See, my servant will act wisely ;
       he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him—
       his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
       and his form marred beyond human likeness—

15 so will he sprinkle many nations,
       and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
       For what they were not told, they will see,
       and what they have not heard, they will understand.

It continued at Isaiah 53.


We need to identify who the Israel is here and we need to refer to some verses to get that.

Isaiah 41 v 8:"But you, O Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,


Isaiah 44 v 1 also states that "But now listen, O Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 45 v 4: For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me.


LET US SEE THE WORK OF MISCHIEF PEOPLE IN THE TRANSLATION OF YOUR BOOK AND LATER INSERTION and you would tell me which is correct.

ISAIAH 53 V 10-12

1

Greek Septuagint

The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed: the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form him with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins. Therefore he shall inherit many, and he shall divide the spoils of the mighty; because his soul was delivered to death: and he was numbered among the transgressors; and he bore the sins of many, and was delivered because of their iniquities.


2nd

Hebrew translation

And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul would acknowledge guilt, he shall have descendants [or, he shall see progeny], he shall prolong his days, and God’s purpose shall prosper in his hand. From the toil of his soul he shall see [and he shall] be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant will vindicate the righteous before the multitudes, and their iniquities he shall carry. Therefore, I will allot him a portion among the multitudes, and with the mighty he shall share booty, because he has bared his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and he will [continue to] to intercede for the transgressors.


3rd

Christian Translation

Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was  numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.


Now wIth regards to later insertion, we read thus from NIV:

Isaiah 53 v 11: After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied.

But the footnotes states that:

Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint Masoretic Text does not have the light of life).

[color=#990000]The Christian scribes inserted the words “light of life” to support a Christian interpretation, by forgery and deceit.  [/b]

Christians reject the Septuagint, yet the New Testament writers used the Septuagint.
 
Christians reject the Septuagint, yet the sayings of Jesus were composed in Greek. 

The Old Testament of the Codex Sinaiticus is a Septuagint.

[b]Are you ok or need more?

Hundreds of years later, Isaiah’s prophecy was fulfilled in the perfect Lord Jesus, born of the virgin Mary. When the prophet John the Baptist saw Him, he cried, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). Crowds thronged Him for healing and teaching, but the religious leaders scorned Him. Mobs cried out, “Crucify Him!” Soldiers beat, mocked, and crucified Him. As Isaiah foretold, Jesus was crucified in between two criminals but was buried in a rich man’s tomb. But He didn’t remain in the grave. Because God accepted His Lamb’s sacrifice, He fulfilled another prophecy by raising Jesus from the dead (Psalm 16:10; Isaiah 26:19).

Hold sir.


Jesus and his immediate followers were Pharisees. Jesus had no intention of founding a new religion. He regarded himself as the Messiah in the normal Jewish sense of the term, i.e. a human leader who would restore the Jewish monarchy, drive out the Roman invaders, set up an independent Jewish state, and inaugurate an era of peace, justice and prosperity (known as 'the kingdom of God,) for the whole world. Jesus believed himself to be the figure prophesied in the Hebrew Bible who would do all these things. He was not a militarist and did not build up an army to fight the Romans, since he believed that God would perform a great miracle to break the power of Rome. This miracle would take place on the Mount of Olives, as prophesied in the book of Zechariah. When this miracle did not occur, his mission had failed. He had no intention of being crucified in order to save mankind from eternal damnation by his sacrifice. He never regarded himself as a divine being, and would have regarded such an idea as pagan and idolatrous, an infringement of the first of the Ten Commandments. (Hyam Maccoby, The Problem of Paul)

Jesus had no foreknowledge of his failure and crucifixion. The Last Supper was a celebration with his closest disciples of his appearance as King and the imminent overthrow of the Roman power (Hyam Maccoby, Revolution in Judea: Jesus and the Jewish Resistance)


Jesus was unwilling to be crucified:

Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."  (Matthew 26:38-39)


Hold please, coming

@Nezan

This statement by Jesus before his death on the cross shows us two things. Those words are a direct quotation from Psalms 22. Christ himself saw the numerous prophecies about him filling this portion of scripture which was written by David:

Ok let us read

Psalm 22:

1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel. [a]

4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.

5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:

8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.

10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me [b] in the dust of death.

16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.

20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save [d] me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you [e] will I fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.

We saw thed work of 'scribes' trying to falsely link pophecies to Jesus in which case it was not for him. The above was for David.

His incarnation would enable him to minister to other humans and to become the perfect sacrifice for their sins (22:22; Heb. 2:12, 17).

At his crucifixion, his garments would be divided and gambled for (22:18; Matt. 27:35).
On the cross he would:
echo David’s cry of anguish (22:1; Matt. 27:46)
be ridiculed (22:7-8; Matt. 27:42-43)
suffer the piercing of his hands and feet (22:16; Luke 24:39-40)
be publicly stared at (22:13, 17; Matt. 27:39, 47)
In general, 22:1-26 foreshadows Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection, while 22:27–31 foreshadows his millennial reign.
Psalms 22 was written roughly 600 years before Jesus’ birth. What’s interesting to note is that crucifixion hadn’t even been invented yet. It was the Phoenicians who came up with the mode of execution and the Romans who had borrowed it from them. During the time that Rome occupied Israel, they had used it as the form of capitol punishment for the Jews who had up until that time performed executions by stoning.

Something else about this moment of Jesus’ agonizing crucifixion. In 2 Corinthians 5:21, it says that “for our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Also in Galations 3:13 it says “Christ redeemed us, by becoming a curse for us.” In other words the only perfect human being who ever walked the face of the earth, the only man who never knew sin, became the sin of the world on the cross. That is what is meant when it is said that he became the sacrifice for us or that he is the lamb that was slain. He was innocent yet murdered as a criminal.

It is written in Hab. 1:13 that God’s eyes are too pure to see evil or to look upon wrongdoing. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus became sin for the world on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), that even the Father could not look upon him. It is likely that this was the moment that Christ cried out. I don’t think it is within our minds as humans to understand what this must have felt like. The one man who had lived his entire life in constant service, obedience and therefore sight of the Father, in his greatest service to humanity, was left in utter darkness.

One thing we can say with certainty. We have no ability to even begin to appreciate the utterly horrific experience that Jesus went through on the cross as he took upon himself the sins of the world. There was a physical pain that we cannot even imagine and a spiritual one we can never fathom.

Before I even explain your quotes up, I need your answers on:

1. Since he was God, why did he shout that 'why did you forsaken me'?
2 why did he say in Mark 10 v 18: Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."

also why did he say:
John 14 v 28: "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Also

If redemption through the blood of Christ, that one member of the Trinity, is all that is necessary for salvation, how are we to explain the many, many occasions in the Gospel that Jesus details the necessity of submitting directly to the One God - without ever mentioning the role of his (Jesus') redeeming blood?

@Nezan

We have verses where Jesus called himself son of man and not God

This sounds like some kind of contradiction at first glance, but in fact there is no contradiction. An examination of Scripture reveals that the phrase "Son of Man" carries broad significance.

First of all, even if the phrase “Son of Man” is a reference to Jesus' humanity, it is not a denial of His deity. By becoming a man, Jesus did not cease being God. The incarnation of Christ did not involve the subtraction of deity, but the addition of humanity. Jesus clearly claimed to be God on many occasions (Matthew 16:16,17; John 8:58; 10:30). But in addition to being divine, He was also human (see Philippians 2:6-. He had two natures (divine and human) conjoined in one person.

Further, Scripture indicates that Jesus was not denying His deity by referring to Himself as the Son of Man. In fact, it is highly revealing that the term “Son of Man” is used in Scripture in contexts of Christ's deity. For example, the Bible says that only God can forgive sins (Isaiah 43:25; Mark 2:7). But as the “Son of Man,” Jesus had the power to forgive sins (Mark 2:10). Likewise, Christ will return to earth as the “Son of Man” in clouds of glory to reign on earth (Matthew 26:63-64). In this passage, Jesus is citing Daniel 7:13 where the Messiah is described as the "Ancient of Days," a phrase used to indicate His deity (cf. Daniel 7:9).

Further, when Jesus was asked by the high priest whether He was the “Son of God” (Matthew 26:63), He responded affirmatively, declaring that He was the “Son of Man” who would come in power and great glory (verse 64). This indicated that Jesus Himself used the phrase “Son of Man” to indicate His deity as the Son of God.

Finally, the phrase “Son of Man” also emphasizes who Jesus is in relation to His incarnation and His work of salvation. In the Old Testament (Leviticus 25:25-26, 48-49; Ruth 2:20), the next of kin (one related by blood) always functioned as the "kinsman-redeemer" of a family member who needed redemption from jail. Jesus became related to us “by blood” (that is, He became a man) so He could function as our Kinsman-Redeemer and rescue us from sin.

Can you tell me where he said he was God?


Coming please

@Nezan



We read in John 1:1 that in the beginning Jesus was with God and Jesus was God.


John 1 v 1:


Can you tell me the meaning of the God used in John 1v 1?

Little wonder Jehovah Witness are not in agreement with them in that area. They used 'a god' and they have been saying that Jesus is a lesser god, 'TON THEON'

Can you still explain the meaning of
TON THEON
HO THEOS
and
O THEOS

We will also compare

Exodus 7 v 1 where God made Moses god to Pharaoh

Psalm 82 v 6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High

and relate the meaning of God therein whether it is TO THEON or HO THEON and has any relationship with that of John 1 v 1



The Greek term used by the anonymous author of the Fourth Gospel for “word” is logos. In doing so, the author identifies Jesus with the pagan logos of Greek philosophy, who was the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.
The concept defined by the term logos is also found in India, Egyptian and Persian Philosophical and Theological systems. (new encyclopaedia Britannica vol.7 p.440)

The idea of the logos in Greek thought may be traced back at least to the 6th-centrury-BC philosopher, Heracleitus, who proposed that there was a logos in the cosmic process analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics(Stoics were philosophers who followed the teaching of the thinker Zeno of Citicum- 4th-3rd century BC) defined the logos as an active, rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. they called the logos providence, mixture, god, and soul of the universe. The Greek-speaking Jewish philosopher, Judaeus Philo of Alexandria (15BC – 45 CE), taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and Cosmos, Being both the agent between God and the Cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can comprehend God. According to Philo and the middle Platonists philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teaching of the 4th- century-BC Greek master Philosopher immanent in the word and at the same time the transcendent divine mind. (new encyclopaedia vol.7p440).
The writings of Philo were preserved and cherished by the Church, and provided the inspiration for a sophisticated Christian philosophical theology. He departed from Platonic thought regarding the logos (word) and called it “the first begotten son of God”.

There is also John 10:30 where Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” We can see from scripture that although Jesus is God, just as the Father is God, the Father holds a higher ‘office’ than the Son. This does not mean that the Father is God and the other persons of the Trinity are not. Just as an earthly father is equally human with, but holds a higher office than his son, even so the Father and the Son in the Trinity are equal in essence, but different in function. In like manner, we speak of the president of our country as being a greater man, not by virtue of his character, but by virtue of his position. Therefore, Jesus cannot ever be said to say that He considered Himself anything less than God by nature.

Oga, why not quit this game. Read from verse 29 that says:

" My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL,

Since you claimed that Jesus is God because he said He and father are one, kindly explain this to me:

John 17v 20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".


Still coming[color=#990000][/color]

@Nezan

I believe you did not read through my rigorous thesis? You shouldnt have been asking that question.

What rigorous thesis that have bben dealt with are you talking about?

For us Christians, the Bible flows, that is why you can not take a verse in isolation, the meaning will imply itself from the following verses.

Really, you didnt quote in isolation when you ignored John 10 v 29 that says God is greater than I and started from verse 30

That was why Jesus fulfilled the scriptures that were even written in the O.T.

What scriptures, could you tell where OT prophets preached DOCTRINE OF TRINITY?

As for abrogation, our God never claim to have three daughters and recanted, show me the abrogated verses and I will open up again on what you muslims hate to discuss- the satanic verses

Kindly create a thread for and you would asist Salman Rushdie.

Your people have been deleting my posts on that, you know?

Opsss. My posts have been deleted as well. Create a thread for that and I promise that Mod would not delete it.


You murdered sleep Nezan. Still coming

@Nezan

He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the living

The verse you quoted above is Isaiah 53:8, it finds its fulfillment in Matthew 27:

You even nailed yourself up. Was Jesus taken out of prison?

Go siddon . I have exposed that verse and it has nothing to do with Jesus. It was for Israel. Read it very well and you would see that it has nothing to do with Jesus.

"Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say." And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He did not answer. Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?"

"But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas and to put Jesus to death. But the governor said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." PIlate said to them, "Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" They all said, "Crucify Him!" An he said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But they kept shouting all the more, saying, "crucify Him!"

"When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves." And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified." (Matthew 27:11-13, 20-26)

Where was he taken out of prison in the above verses sir Nezan

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong.


This verse is Isaiah 53:12. Beyond doubt, Isaiah 52:12-53:13 refers to Messiah Jesus. He is the one highly exalted before whom kings shut their mouths. Messiah is the shoot who sprung up from the fallen Davidic dynasty. He became the King of Kings. He provided the ultimate atonement.

It did not refer to Jesus in actual sense because spoil was not divided and it further exposed your falsehood, it referred to Israel.


Coming

@Nezan

Jesus came to FULFILL the scriptures, NOT TO QUOTE scriptures

What scriptures and do you care to furnish where OT prophets preached TRINITY?

The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day. "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the 'three days and three nights' could permit a Friday crucifixion." This phenomena is exemplified in scripture in the book of Esther. "Go, assemble all the Jews who are found in Susa, and fast for me; do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maidens also will fast in the same way," (Esther 4:16 ). Then, in Esther 5:1 it says, "Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace in front of the king’s rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace." We can see that even though the three days and nights had not been completed, Esther went in to see the King on the third day even though she said to fast for three days and nights. We see that "on the third day" is equivalent to "after three days."

Additionally, Mark 8:31 says, "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." Yet, 1 Cor. 15:4 says, "and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Also, Luke 24:5-7, "and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'" Here we can see that "after three days" is equivalent to mean "on the third day."

Therefore, we can see that because of the Jewish usage of counting any part of a day as the whole of the day, the term "three days and nights" is idiomatic and not literal.

You love beating around the bush. I asked ytou a very simple question but you went telling me tales by moonlight


I have engaged one of you on same issue and I would still enage you as well.

You know that your scriptures gave the time he was crucified. Was it in the 3rd hour or 6th hour and kindly interprete the meaning for me?

What exact day was he crucified as we all know that they start their next day from evening (the night before the next day) because one of your folks told me it was thurday and you should note that he rose on Sunday morning.

Mind you it was not literal as that is how the jews, arabs calculate their day

So do justice to that sir.

After defending my own

What have you defended sir?

, can you tell me more about the satanic verses in the koran?

Create a thread for that and I would oblige you and I promise that no locking of the thread.


You murdered sleep, Babs is still coming

@Nezan

Did Matthew write the gospel really?
If Jesus could solely forgive sin without God's intervention, why did he say in John 8:28 that "I do nothing of myself"?

Kola Oloye exposed the verses in which you failed to in order to cover you claim.

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and[b] that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. [/b]

Did you see that, care to explain that to me?

Now, you tell me the origin of the satanic verses in the koran

I am tired of saying it over again, create a thread and I promise that Jarus would not provided you provide your facts and even if you do not, he would still not because I believe you are very ignorant of that.

@Nezan


Create whatever thread you want to and I would come. You may also provide rebuttal to my posts.

Cheers

Point of correction oga, I have not said he should continue raising every dead person but asked you why he couldnt do that but had to ignore the dead. It showed that Jesus could not do anything on his own as he confessed in one of the verses and I would get to you and Kola Oloye there.

If Jesus is the beginning and end as you have been drumming, he should have gone there to wake the dead but it showed that he had to beg God first just like the case where he prayed more than three times to God to remove the cup from his head. He would have stood them without calling on his creatror if he has his own will but you forgot that he was sent by someone and came to do the will

Whether you like it or not, the Trinity doesnt act independently. Jesus cannot act outside of the Triune. His actions has to be in complete harmony with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

If you want to discuss Mohammed (saw), create a thread and I would oblige you

[size=14pt]Why are you suddenly afraid of discussing satanic verses here? [/size]

Are you prepared for trinity sir?

Does your trinity has any biblical backing?

Was it preached by any of the OT prophets?

Did Jesus preach Trinity?

If your Jesus is God, who did he pray to when he learnt that they wanted to kill him?

You stubbornly refused to read my earlier post dealing with the Trinity. As an intelligent mind, I dont repeat myself rhetorically but engage new issues.


"THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD

[b]Now I know you are not been sincere. Even the earliest Church fathers believed in the Trinity:

In The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, we find that the Holy Spirit is alive and is a person:

As surely as God lives, as Jesus Christ lives, and the Holy Ghost also (on whom are set the faith and hope of God’s elect), (The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, chapter 58)

Note that this passage tells us that (1) the Holy Spirit is not an impersonal force, but rather is alive (he "also" lives) and (2) the Holy Spirit is a person not an "it" ("on whom" our hopes are set, not "on which".

The introduction to the edition I read explains that this epistle "is one of the earliest Christian writings outside the New Testament, Of the authenticity of this epistle there is no doubt. Its author was the Clement who is mentioned fourth (after Peter, Linus and Anencletus) in the most reliable lists of the Bishops of Rome, The date of the epistle is generally reckoned to be about A.D. 96." [/b]

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, was a student of the Apostle John. Prior to being martyred in A.D. 107, Ignatius penned or dictated seven letters. His writings drip with language about the divinity of Jesus:

Ignatius, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia; a church, forever united and chosen, through real suffering, by the will of the Father and Jesus Christ our God, Being imitators of God, you have, once restored to new life in the Blood of God, perfectly accomplished the task so natural to you. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Ephesians, prologue and chapter 1)

There is only one Physician –
Very flesh, yet Spirit too;
uncreated, and yet born;
God-and-Man in One agreed,
Very-Life-in-Death indeed,
Fruit of God and Mary’s seed;
At once impassible and torn
By pain and suffering here below:
Jesus Christ, whom as our Lord we know.
(Ignatius, Epistle to the Ephesians, chapter 7)

Jesus Christ our God was conceived by Mary of the seed of David and of the Spirit of God, The age-old empire of evil was overthrown, for God was now appearing in human form to bring in a new order, even life without end. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Ephesians, chapters 18 and 19)

All perfect happiness in Jesus Christ our God, to you who are bodily and spiritually at one with all His commandments, (Ignatius, Epistle to the Romans, prologue)

Leave me to imitate the Passion of my God. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Romans, chapter 6)

Glory be to Jesus Christ, the Divine One, (Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, chapter 1)

Farewell always in our God Jesus Christ. (Ignatius, Epistle to Polycarp, chapter

This last quotation is especially noteworthy. Here Ignatius is writing to another disciple of the Apostle John, Polycarp the Bishop of Smyrna. If Ignatius were making a doctrinal error in calling Jesus God, surely Polycarp would have corrected him. However, we see the opposite occur: after Polycarp received this letter and copies of the other letters penned by Ignatius, Polycarp had them copied and circulated to the various churches in the region – in essence validating their doctrinal content!

The real prophecy starts at Isaiah 52 v 13 where God said that:[/b]

See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.

Thank you. So you believe he was raised, lifted up and highly exalted? To which of the prophets was this pronounced upon? Because He was not a prophet, but God the son.

LET US SEE THE WORK OF MISCHIEF PEOPLE IN THE TRANSLATION OF YOUR BOOK AND LATER INSERTION and you would tell me which is correct.

Can you tell me about these errors in the koran?

Internal Contradictions:
Who suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong? Sura 34:50 commands Muhammad to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss," which is a severe factual error in the Qur'an as well as contradicting the teaching of the Qur'an in a number of other verses.
Allah, Adam, and the Angels. There are a great number of problems and inconsistencies between the several accounts of Adam's creation, Allah's command to prostrate before Adam, Satans refusal, etc.
Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
Can Allah be seen and did Muhammad see his Lord? Yes [S. 53:1-18, 81:15-29], No [6:102-103, 42:51].
Were Warners Sent to All Mankind Before Muhammad? Allah had supposedly sent warners to every people [10:47, 16:35-36, 35:24], Abraham and Ishmael are specifically claimed to have visited Mecca and built the Kaaba [2:125-129]. Yet, Muhammad supposedly is sent to a people who never had a messenger before [28:46, 32:3, 34:44, 36:2-6]. This article also raises other issues: What about Hud and Salih who supposedly were sent to the Arabs? What about the Book that was supposedly given to Ishmael? Etc.
What will be the food for the people in Hell? The food for the people in Hell will be only "Dhari" [Sura 88:6], or only foul pus from the washing of wounds [S. 69:36], or will they also get to eat from the tree of Zaqqum [S. 37:66]? Together, these verses constitute three contradictions.
Can Angels Cause the Death of People? The Qur'an attacks those who worship anyone besides God (e.g. angels or prophets) because those can neither create, nor give life, nor cause anyone to die. Yet, the Qur'an explicitly states that one angel or several angels are causing certain people to die [Sura 4:97, 16:28, 32, 32:11].
Confusion Concerning Identity of the Spirit and Gabriel (a long discussion of dozens of references)
'Iddah rules for divorced and widowed women appear to be arbitrary and inconsistent.
Is there a minimum age of marriage for girls?
To Marry or Not to Marry? The Qur'an forbids believers to marry idolatrous women [Sura 2:221], and calls Christians idolaters and unbelievers [9:28-33], but still allows Muslims to marry Christian women [5:5].
Will it be accepted of them or not?
Will Allah reward the good deeds of Unbelievers? S. 9:17 and 9:69 clearly say no. However, S. 99:7 implies yes. Moreover, S. 2:62 promises Christians reward for their good deeds. But S. 9:28-33; 5:17, 72-73 calls Christians idolaters, and S. 9:17 is very clear that idolaters will have no reward.
Should Muslims Accept Peace or Not?
Fighting All People Until They Do What?
Compel them or Not?
Can They Disbelieve in the Last Day and be Safe?
Should Muslims show kindness to their parents? On the one hand, the Quran commands all Muslims to show kindness to their parents, even if they are disbelievers [17:23-24, 31:14-15, 29:8, etc.]. On the other hand, it demands not to show any love or friendship to those who oppose Muhammad, even if they are their parents [9:23, 58:22].
Can one be a believer in God and oppose Muhammad at the same time?
How many mothers does a Muslim have? Only one [58:2, the woman who gave birth and none else], or two [4:23, including the mother who nursed him], or at least ten [33:6]?
And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available estate. A second example: A man leaves only his mother, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property.
How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21. (This article has received many Muslim responses which are quoted or linked and/or discussed at the end of the article.)
Further numerical discrepancies Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)? --- According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups. --- There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42] Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]
How many days did Allah need to destroy the people of Aad? One day [54:19] or several days [41:16; 69:6,7]
Six or eight days of creation? Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly state that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in 41:9-12 the detailed description of the creation procedure adds up to eight days. (This topic also includes many Muslim responses and further discussion.)
Quick or Slow Creation? Allah creates the heavens and the earth in six days [7:54] and many Muslims want to be modern and scientific, and make that six eons, but then again, He creates instantaneously [2:117], "Be! And it is".
Heavens or Earth? Which was created first? First earth and then heaven [2:29], heaven and after that earth [79:27-30].
Calling together or ripping apart? In the process of creation heaven and earth were first apart and are called to come together [41:11], while 21:30 states that they were originally one piece and then ripped apart.
What was man created from? A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]
What were jinn created from?
The descent of the Quran: Piecemeal or all at once?
Examining the inherent problems with the descent of the Quran
Is half the Quran already fully detailed?
Fully Detailed Or Incomplete? The Qur'an claims for itself to be (fully) detailed, that nothing is left out of the book [6:38, 6:114, 12:111, 16:89 etc.]. However there are plenty of important issues which are left unclear in the Qur'an. This article discusses the confusion found in the quranic statements on wine.
Is the Quran Completely Clear or Not?
The Perspicuity of the Quran and It’s Mysterious Letters
Worshiping the Same or a Different God? Muhammad is commanded to speak to the disbelievers: , nor do you worship what I worship [109:3]. However, other verses in the Qur'an state clearly that those disbelieving his message are in fact worshiping the same God, Allah.
Did the Meccan Polytheist Believe That Allah Was The Supreme Being?
To Intercede or Not To Intercede? - That is the Question! The Qur'an makes contradictory statements whether on the Day of Judgment intercession will be possible. No: [2:122-123, 254; 6:51; 82:18-19; etc.]. Yes: [20:109; 34:23; 43:86; 53:26; etc.]. Each position can be further supported by ahadith.
How the Islamic Doctrine of Intercession undermines Allah's Omniscience
Where is Allah and his throne? Allah is nearer than the jugular vein [50:16], but he is also on the throne [57:4] which is upon the water [11:7], and at the same time so far away, that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach him [32:5, 70:4].
The origin of calamity? Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?
How merciful is Allah's mercy? He has prescribed mercy for himself [6:12], yet he does not guide some, even though he could [6:35, 14:4].
Does Allah command to do evil? No [7:28, 16:90]. Yes [17:16, ]. Two examples are also given, where Allah clearly commanded or permitted indecent actions [2:229-230, 2:187].
Should Muhammad Get Paid Or Shouldn’t He?
A Contradiction Regarding Muhammad's Fatherhood
Will there be inquiry in Paradise? "neither will they question one another" [23:101] but nevertheless they will be "engaging in mutual inquiry" [52:25], "and they will , question one another" [37:27].
Are angels protectors? "NO protector besides Allah" [2:107, 29:22]. But in Sura 41:31 the angels themselves say: "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." And also in other suras is their role described as guarding [13:11, 50:17-18] and protecting [82:10].
Is Allah the only Wali? On the one hand, Allah is supposedly the only wali (protector, helper, friend) [9:116, 17:111, 32:4, 42:28], on the other hand, the messenger and the believers are walis [5:55, 9:71], Allah has walis [10:62], and he raises walis [4:75].
Does Allah Act Alone Or Does He Have Partners That Assist Him?
Is Allah the Only Judge or Not?
Is Allah the only sovereign or isn’t he?
Are all obedient and prostrating to Allah? That is the claim in 16:49 and 30:26, but dozens of verses speak of the proud disobedience of Satan [7:11, 15:28-31, 17:61, 20:116, 38:71-74, 18:50] as well of many different human beings who reject His commands and His revelations.
Does Allah forgive shirk? Shirk is considered the worst of all sins, but the author of the Qur'an seems unable to decide if Allah will ever forgive it or not. No [4:48, 116], Yes [4:153, 25:68-71]. Abraham committed this sin of polytheism as he takes moon, sun, stars to be his Lord [6:76-78], yet Muslims believe that all prophets are without any sin.
Abraham and the Sun
Abraham's Monotheism
Abraham's Progeny? How the Qur'an messed up Abraham's family tree
Did All Prophets Receive the Same Book?
The event of worship of the golden calf: The Israelites repented about worshipping the golden calf BEFORE Moses returned from the mountain [7:149], yet they refused to repent but rather continued to worship the calf until Moses came back [20:91]. Does Aaron share in their guilt? No [20:85-90], yes [20:92, 7:151].
Was Jonah cast on the desert shore or was he not? "Then We cast him on a desert shore while he was sick" [37:145] "Had not Grace from his Lord reached him, he would indeed have been cast off on the naked shore while he was reprobate." [68:49]
Moses and the Injil? Jesus is born more than 1,000 years after Moses, but in 7:157 Allah speaks to Moses about what is written in the Injil [the book given to Jesus].
Can slander of chaste women be forgiven? Yes [24:5], No [24:23].
How do we receive the record on Judgment Day? On Judgement day the lost people are given the Record (of their bad deeds): Behind their back [84:10], or in their left hand [69:25].
Can angels disobey? No angel is arrogant, they all obey Allah [16:49-50], but: "And behold, we said to the ANGELS: 'Bow down to Adam'. And THEY bowed down, EXCEPT Iblis. He refused and was haughty." [2:34]. This article includes links to answers to four Muslim responses.
How many wings does an angel have? Angels have 2, 3, or 4 wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings according to Sahih al-Bukhari.
Is Satan an angel or a jinn?
Three contradictions in 2:97 and 16:101-103 Who brings the revelation from Allah to Muhammad? The ANGEL Gabriel [2:97], or the Holy Spirit [16:102]? The new revelation confirms the old [2:97] or substitutes it [16:101]? The Qur'an is PURE Arabic [16:103] but there are numerous foreign, non-Arabic words in it.
Do not say, "Three"!? It is impossible to recite Sura 4:171 without transgressing the command contained in it.
The infinite loop problem Sura 26:192,195,196: "It (the Qur'an) is indeed a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds, , in clear Arabic speech and indeed IT (the Qur'an) is in the writings of the earlier (prophets)." Now, the 'earlier writings' are the Torah and the Injil for example, written in Hebrew and Greek. HOW can an ARABIC Qur'an be contained in books of other languages? Furthermore, it would have to contain this very passage of the Qur'an since the Qur'an is properly contained in them. Hence these earlier writings have to be contained in yet other earlier writings and we are in an infinite loop, which is absurd.
Is the Torah like the Qur'an, or is it not? The Muslim claim of the corruption of the Bible leads to a contradiction between S. 2:24 and 17:88 on the one hand, and 28:49 and 46:10 on the other.
Should Jews and Christians follow the Bible or the Quran?
"An old woman" and God's character About the story of Lot: "So we delivered him and his family, - all exept an old woman who lingered behind." [Sura 26:170-171] And again: "But we saved him and his family, exept his wife: she was of those who lagged behind. [Sura 7:83]. Either this is a contradiction or if indeed Lot's wife is derogatorily called "an old woman" then this does not show much respect for her as a wife of a prophet.
More problems with the story of Lot "And his people gave NO answer but this: They said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" [Sura 7:82 & 27:56]. Yet: "But his people gave NO answer but this: They said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." [Sura 29:29]. Obviously these answers are different.
The "pleasure" of Allah? Is God's action of punishment or mercy and guidance or misguidance arbitrary?
Did Abraham smash the idols? The accounts of Abraham, Suras 19:41-49, 6:74-83 differ quite a bit from Sura 21:51-59. While in Sura 21 Abraham confronts his people strongly, and even destroys the idols, in Sura 19 Abraham shuts up after his father threatens him to stone him for speaking out against the idols. And he seems not only to become silent, but even to leave the area ("turning away from them all".
What about Noah's son? According to Sura 21:76, Noah and his family is saved from the flood, and Sura 37:77 confirms that his seed survived. But Sura 11:42-43 reports that Noah's son drowns.
Was Noah driven out? "Before them *the people of Noah* rejected (their messenger): They rejected Our servant and said, 'Here is One possessed!' And he was driven out." [Sura 54:9] Now, if he is driven out [expelled from their country] how come they can scoff at him while he is building the ark since we read "Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the Chiefs of *his people* passed by him, they threw ridicule on him." [Sura 11:38] He cannot be both: Driven out and near enough that they can regularly pass by.
Pharaoh's Magicians: Muslims or Rejectors of Faith? Did the Magicians of Pharaoh, Egyptians, become believers in the God of Moses [7:103-126; 20:56-73; S. 26:29-51] or did only Israelites believe in Moses [10:83]?
How many gods did the Egyptians worship?
Pharaoh's repentance in the face of death? According to Sura 10:90-92, Pharaoh repented "in the sight of death" and was saved. But Sura 4:18 says that such a thing can't happen.
Abrogation? "The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice; there is NONE who can change His words." [Sura 6:115] Also see 6:34 and 10:64. But then Allah (Muhammad?) sees the need to exchange some of them for "better ones" [Sura 2:106, 16:101]. And it is not for ignorant people to question Allah because of such practices!
Guiding to truth? "Say: 'God - He guides to the truth; and which is worthier to be followed , ?" [Sura 10:35] But how much is left over of this worthiness when we also read: "Allah leads astray whom he pleases, and he guides whom He pleases, , " [Sura 14:4]. And how do we know in which of Allah's categories of pleasure we fall? How sure can a Muslim be that he is one of those guided right and not one of those led astray?
What is the punishment for adultery? Flogging with a 100 stripes (men and women) [24:2], "confine them to houses until death do claim them (lifelong house arrest - for the women) [4:15]. For men: "If they repent and amend, leave them alone" [4:16]. 24:2 contradicts both the procedure for women and men in Sura 4. And why is the punishment for women and men equal in Sura 24 but different in Sura 4?
How are the sexually immoral supposed to be punished?
The Problem of Divine Sovereignty, Predestination, Salvation and Human Free Will
Who suffers the consequence of sins? The Qur'an declares that everyone will be held responsible only for his own sins [S. 17:13-15, 53:38-42]. Yet, the Qur'an accuses the Jews of Muhammad's day for the sins committed some 2000 years earlier by other Jews, e.g. worshipping the Golden Calf idol.
Will Christians enter Paradise or go to Hell? Sura 2:62 and 5:69 say "Yes", Sura 5:72 (just 3 verses later) and 3:85 say "No".
God alone or also men? Clear or incomprehensible? The Qur'an is "clear Arabic speech." [16:103] Yet "NONE knows its interpretation, save only Allah." [3:7]. Actually, "men of understanding do grasp it." [3:7]
Was Pharaoh Drowned or Saved when chasing Moses and the Israelites? Saved [10:92], drowned [28:40, 17:103, 43:55].
When Commanded Pharaoh the Killing of the Sons? When Moses was a Prophet and spoke God's truth to Pharaoh [40:23-25] or when he was still an infant [20:38-39]?
When/how are the fates determined? "The night of power is better than a thousand months. The angels and spirit descend therein, by the permission of their Lord, with all decrees." [97:3,4] "Lo! We revealed it on a blessed night." [44:3] To Muslims, the "Night of Power" is a blessed night on which fates are settled and on which everything relating to life, death, etc., which occurs throughout the year is decreed. It is said to be the night on which Allah's decrees for the year are brought down to the earthly plane. In other words, matters of creation are decreed a year at a time. Contradicting this, Sura 57:22 says, "No affliction befalls in the earth or in your selves, but it is in a Book before we create it." This means it is written in the Preserved Tablet, being totally fixed in Allah's knowledge before anyone was created. All of the above is contradicted by "And every man's fate We have fastened to his own neck." This says that man alone is responsible for what he does and what happens to him. [17:13]
Wine: Good or bad? Strong drink and , are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. [5:90, also 2:219]. Yet on the other hand in Paradise are rivers of wine [47:15, also 83:22,25]. How does Satan's handiwork get into Paradise?
Good News of Painful Torture? Obviously, announcing torment and suffering to anyone is bad news, not good news. However, the Qur'an announces the good news of painful torment [3:21, 4:138, 9:3, 9:34, 31:7, 45:8, and 84:24].
Jinns and men created for worship or for Hell? Created only to serve God [Sura 51:56], many of them made for Hell [Sura 7:179].
Preferred for Hell? S. 17:70 says that Allah prefers (all) the children of Adam over many of his creatures, but S. 98:6 declares the majority of men to be the worst of creatures, many of them being even created specifically for Hell (S. 7:179).
Will people stay in Hell forever, or not?
Will all Muslims go to Hell? According to Sura 19:71 every Muslim will go to Hell (for at least some time), while another passage states that those who die in Jihad will go to Paradise immediately.
Will Allah disgrace Muslims? On the day of judgment Allah will not humiliate or disgrace the Prophet and those who believe in him [S. 66:8]. However, 19:71 says that everyone will enter Hell, and 3:192 states that whomsoever Allah sends to Hell, is disgraced thereby.
Will Jesus burn in Hell? Jesus is raised to Allah, [Sura 4:158], near stationed with him [Sura 3:45], worshiped by millions of Christians, yet Sura 21:98 says, that all that are worshiped by men besides Allah will burn in Hell together with those who worship them.
Is Jesus God or Not? In Sura 16:17, 20-21 and S. 25:3 we find a criterion to distinguish the true God from false gods. Yet, according to S. 3:49, 55, 4:157-158, 5:110, 6:2, and 38:71-72 Jesus satisfies the definition and should be considered true Deity.
Is Jesus Like Adam? S. 3:59 makes this claim, but how many aspects of likeness are there really?
Can there be a son without a consort? Allah cannot have a son without a consort [Sura 6:101], but Mary can have a son without a consort because that is easy for Allah [Sura 19:21].
Who is the father of Jesus? A more involved argument that is difficult to summarize in one sentence.
Begetting and Self-sufficiency A self-contradiction on account of confused terminology.
Could Allah have a son? Sura 39:4 affirms and Sura 6:101 denies this possibility.
Did Jesus Die already? Sura 3:144 states that all messengers died before Muhammad. But 4:158 claims that Jesus was raised to God (alive?).
One Creator or many? The Qur'an uses twice the phrase that Allah is "the best of creators" [23:14, 37:125]. What other creators are in mind? On the other hand, many verses make clear that Allah alone is "the creator of all things" [e.g. 39:62]. There is nothing left for others to be a creator of.
From among all nations or from Abraham's seed? Sura 29:27 states that all prophets came Abraham's seed. But 16:36 claims that Allah raised messengers from among every people.
Marrying the wives of adopted sons? It is important that Muslims can marry the divorced wives of adopted sons [Sura 33:37], yet it is forbidden to adopt sons [Sura 33:4-5].
Messengers were never sent to other than their own people? So it is claimed in Sura 14:4 and 30:47. However, the Bible and the Qur'an, and the Muslim traditions confirm that Jonah was sent to a different nation.
Messengers Were Sent Only to Their Own People? Sura 14:4 states that never was a messenger sent except in the language of his own people. Yet, the Quran itself claims that Jesus is supposed to be a sign to all people, that the Torah and Gospel are for all people, that Moses was sent to Pharaoh of Egypt, and that Muhammad is sent to all of mankind. The hadith also claim that Noah was sent to "the inhabitants of the earth".
Did Allah give a Greek Injil to the Jews?
What kind of book is the Injil?
Messengers Amongst the Jinns and Angels? Allah sent only men as messengers [Suras 12:109, 21:7-8, 25:20-21] but there seemingly are messengers from Jinns and Angels [6:130; 11:69,77; 22:75; etc., see article for details].
Do all of God's messengers eat food?
A Messenger from among the beasts? Allah sent only men as messengers [Suras 12:109, 21:7-8, 25:20-21]. Yet, the Qur'an also speaks about a beast that is a messenger from Allah to men [S. 27:82].

I have a problem with my internet service here. I barely browse, thats why I could not eve come up here yesterday.

@Nezan,

You seem to have proven that your 'religion' is based on nothing but confusion and contradiction. Why? You are being trying to justify unjustifiable. My meaning here is that; let's assume we were convinced that God exists in Trinity, how are you expecting us to regard many other verses that say there is One true God? Remember that is the message of many other prophets before Jesus, on whom be peace, as the OP states. Are they invalidated by your claim? Can they? Nope, of course. Right?

Secondly, if really God exist in trinity, i.e. by begotten son you called Jesus and Holy Spirit; why didn't he exist like that until Jesus era? All the messengers before him have never preached it--if we, again, Jesus, on whom be peace, preached it.

In conclusion (before my full response), your problem is just of accepting Jesus on his true status--Prophet, (Luke, 24:19, Mathew, 5:17-18 &5:24, John, 8:40, and so on). Why are you so plainly and unashamedly defying his message and claiming this and that? Go back to the 1st page and see how we regard him.

Oh. . .poor, innocent Jesus!

Assalamu alaikum,

Keep the good job, Babs.
I hope Nezan will come back to his normalcy. LOL