@$Osisi: « #155 on: Today at 07:49:38 PM »  

I hope you realize that some of us know about the 3 daughters of the idol allah that were worshipped and revered by Mohammad's quraish tribe before Mo claimed it was satan that made him say it
Mohammead abdallah his name was,his father abdallah.
his father was an idol worshipper
abdallah means sone of allah

You are tripping over yourself, lady. Relax. Abd means slave. Ibn or bin means son. We are not arguing about the religion of the father of Muhammad (AS). The father of Ibrahim was an idolworshipper too. Or was he not, yet Ibrahim is the "father of faith" in his time and even you Christians are claiming religious relationship ith him (AS). So does the Jew and Muhammad's completed form of Islam also claims religious relationship with Ibrahim. Where is the Wahala? And Igboland, before Christianity crawled its way to it, they named their sons Chukwu, Chukwuman, Chukwumeka, etc. Now that they are Christians, do the Igbo people abandone Chukwu as a word to denote God the Creator? You will lose a bet with me any day. Relax, I will not sweat you. I want you to concentrate on the patients.

If his father was an idol worshipper,does it take rocket science to figure out that allah was the deity?
Forget about judgement day,your initial step is salvation of which without,you are damned already.

If I follow your logic, all Chukwumeka, etc are idolworshippers or named after idols! Davidylan, whats your own name man? Remember InshaAllah I will have boys with so and so names. Read Surah mariam, again and know that Pilgrim.1 and company have sold you a bill of goods. It stinks.

@$Osisi and Davidylan: « #158 on: Today at 07:59:32 PM »

ROFL in Ijebu
Yeah the Sunni and shia use the da same 7 Korans,the same swords and the same allahu akhbar at each others throat.
Boko haram use the same Koran too.

Seven or ten or as many styles of writing! Thats different from your KJV versus Catholic's Douwy Version, Versus Church of Jesus of latter days' saints, or you still want me to continue?

David whats your igbo name, because I will have to name my son something like Godwin in Igbo authentic language. I dont wanna ask the Mrs, just I did not ask at the time of Olayiwola and Oladunwo.

Abeg no give am godwin o! Kelechi is my igbo name.

i forgot i rofl in aba (lol).

David, I will not name my sons any Oyinbo name. It will be in igbo language, Yoruba language for sure and Islamic name most certainly.

i deliberately used compare and not contrast since the muslims, shia or sunni or others have the same Quran in the same Arabic; Uthmani, Hafs, Warsh, etc.


Thats different from Douwy for catholics, and KJV for mainstream porotestants, and Mormon for Latter days saints.

davidylan:

alhaji is confused. I dont blame him, i couldnt make any sense of the quran myself even if i tried.

I would be more surprised if you could, davidylan.

[size=15pt]Who Invented the Trinity?[/size]


What is the source of the Christian concept of the Trinity?


The three monotheistic religions – Judaism, Christianity, and Islam – all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as “tawhid” in Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the “Shema”, or the Jewish creed of faith: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)

It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said “, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Mark 12:29)

Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again:

“And your God is One God: there is no God but He, ” (Quran 2:163)

Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and outside the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – in one divine being.

If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:

“, we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one, they are not three gods, but one God, the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal, he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity, ” (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed)

Let’s put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?

It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.

How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?

Trinity in the Bible


References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.

In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While this “Great Commission” does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase “, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text – that is, not the actual words of Jesus – as can be seen by two factors:

1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and

2) the “Great Commission” was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost – see Mark 16:15.

The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of 1 John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase “,  there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” is definitely a “later addition” to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today’s versions of the Bible.

It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.


The Doctrine Takes Shape

While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a “divine Son”. After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God’s revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.

Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third-century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word “Trinity” when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.

A Formal Doctrine Is Drawn Up


When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria – Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop – Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.

Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.

Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Church Puts Its Foot Down

The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; “Arianism” became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who didn’t hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.

It wasn’t until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.


Debate Continues

Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.

The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than “I believe it because I was told to do so.” It is explained away as “mystery” – yet the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 that “, God is not the author of confusion , ”

The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: “, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.” (Luke 4:

Islam and the Matter of the Trinity

While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam:

“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God” (Quran 5:73)
It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name “Allah” as the name of God.

Suzanne Haneef, in her book What Everyone Should Know About Islam and Muslims (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says:

“But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in.”[1]

Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.

Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity – God being Three-in-One – is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don’t revere just One God, they revere three.

This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Quran sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title “Mother of God” by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verses in the Quran most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Quran as a “member” of the Trinity, is simply not true.

While the Quran does condemn both trinitarianism (the Quran 4:171; 5:73)[2] and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Quran 5:116)[3], nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Quran is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.

In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Quran, God’s Final Revelation to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:

“, your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.” (Quran 18:110)

“, take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.” (Quran 17:39)

– because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout ALL His Revealed Scriptures:

“, I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other) , ” (Quran 21:92)

Salam,

Please do not mind my long replies. I only get the chance to come up here once and before getting another it takes time. And I posted these after seeing someone, Nezan (?) busily trying to explain the inexplainable Trinity stuff. The whole thing is just a hush-hush. I hope you all will enjoy your reading.

Till you hear again from me.

Assalamu alaikum,

May Allah, the Most Exalted, bless you, I, for the wonderful and well-composed replies.

I prayer may that help persons like my friend Nezan to see the truth.

We can't wait to see more of such well done responses.

Trinity is not a hush-hush issue as far as Christianity is concerned.

The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Oh my friend, Nezan. You come back. Welcome.

The statement by "I" that the Trinity issue is hush-hush had not even taken my interest yesterday. LOL @ that was what you started with. That typifies, glaringly, that he/she talks aright. Any way, lets reason it:

"Or have they (mankind) chosen gods from the earth who raise the dead If there were therein gods besides Allah then verily both (the heavens and the earth) would have gone to ruin. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the throne from all they ascribe (unto Him)" (Qur'an 4:171)

Without repeating it, "I" has aptly quoted many verses in both Qur'an and the Bible where its explicitly stated that the Lord, our God, is but ONE. Let me ask you some question that will re-affirm these verses accuracy, credibility and credulity.

The Quesions:

1-Was Jesus a prophet or a god?

2-Jesus died. Yes. Did he die as a prophet or a god?

3-Did Jesus preach Trinity or not?

4-If God was actually a Trinity, why ALL other prophets before Jesus didn't preach it?

5-Why are there clear cut verses that say God is ONE and only ONE?

7-Some even say he's god's son. How?

8-etc

You see? There is an absolute confusion. I want you to think reflectively, Nezan, and answer me. Thanks

May Allah, the Exalted, guide us all, amen.

@ Nezan, Osisi etc


To ask more question about the unknown fact of trinity can u please explain better?



https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-308396.0.html

In order to avoid more confusion about the doctrine

Hulla,

Where are you, Nezan?

Hope you are doing just fine.

Am waiting for you. Thanks

alimat 2:

@ Nezan, Osisi etc


To ask more question about the unknown fact of trinity can u please explain better?



https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-308396.0.html

Are you too lazy to read the thread from the begining? everything about the Trinity is there. No need repeating myself hoarse.

muhsin:

Hulla,

Where are you, Nezan?

Hope you are doing just fine.

Am waiting for you. Thanks

You just want the thread to be long? can you count the posts I have made so far on the Trinity question? and none of you have been able to respond to my questions unless olabowale who is fond of writing long stories totally unconnected with the discuss.

Let me response to Nezan in the briefest way: Its not possible that three gods do exist as a single Deity.

olabowale:

Let me response to Nezan in the briefest way: Its not possible that three gods do exist as a single Deity.

There are no three gods.
Not even your Koran calls Christians polytheists.
get over your tired lame line
Allah must be a drunkard then if he said you should learn from Christians
howcould allah ask you to learn the Torah and Injil which he sent down from people with 3 gods
who is the pathetic one here
Christians,you or allah?

@$Osisi: « #179 on: Today at 12:43:40 AM »

There are no three gods.

God the father. God the ghost. God the son. Three, aint it, woman?

Not even your Koran calls Christians polytheists.

You are polytheists when you worship 3 gods. Certainly you were not called believers. Or were you called Muslims, Mumini, Sauibat, Saubiri, etc? If not you are keferi and o course polytheists of some sort, like hindus.

get over your tired lame line

I will, soon after you and yours become Muslims.

Allah must be a drunkard then if he said you should learn from Christians

Learn fromthe Christians? Not! You are just mudslinging now.

howcould allah ask you to learn the Torah and Injil which he sent down from people with 3 gods

$Osisi, you have lied! Show me verses where Muslims are told to learn Torah and or Injil?

who is the pathetic one here
Christians,you or allah?

Christians, for sure.

« #179 on: Today at 12:43:40 AM »
Quote from: olabowale on Today at 12:12:36 AM
Let me response to Nezan in the briefest way: Its not possible that three gods do exist as a single Deity.

There are no three gods.

I dreamt that $Osisi had a patient who claimed that he is three patients; one on the examination table, in front of my young girl $Osisi, another the patient claims is in the waiting room, and the last is in the car awaiting the outcome of the examination and the return of the two. In my dream, I saw Osisi going to her office, writing something as a recommendation, but I thought it was a presciption until I saw big people coming with strait jacket to cart this man to the "Mad house" of the hospital, right after the Doctor finished her phone call and giving the recommendation note to them.

How do you like the scenerio, people? This is the reality of 1 Patient in 3 persons.

Nezan:

You just want the thread to be long? can you count the posts I have made so far on the Trinity question? and none of you have been able to respond to my questions unless olabowale who is fond of writing long stories totally unconnected with the discuss.

What is there if it's long or short? Who cares? I, at least, don't.

Is it the premise reason of opening it? Of course not.

I don't care even if its locked since, thanks to God, you are obviously defeated.

I'll, inshaAllah, be putting you in extra prayer; may Allah, the Exalted, guide you to the right path.

Discussion closed.

The truth is plain

Hi,

We have passed this stage, as I told you on other thread, Nezan.

Please get more rationale.


Oops! I break my promise. Something necessitate that.

Nezan:

Have you been rational?

Yup.

muhsin:

Yup.

how?

Nezan:

how?

Re-read all the replies I have made here and there, Nezan.

Calling names, using derogatory or blasphemous words, defaming or denting, ridiculing, etc you and your religion is what I have never done, for I know I hold truth; get an armory of irrefutable facts; etc. I humbly enough know I did that then--and its mostly a counter reply to someone. I could recall I once had this drama with you, I think our first "meet-up", right?

But you diagrammatically and your allies know nothing better than doing those things I have listed above. Thus, think objectively on how and why things are in that way? Isn't that contrary to both our religions? Who's being rationale or otherwise?

Please note: responding to this quest is not necessary.

Thanks

I dont understand,,,,,,,,are you ashamed of the fact that your prophet committed paedophilia? is that what you mean? you mean by refering to the improper sexual conduct of your prophet is not been rational? Then quit islam

alhaji is confused. I dont blame him, i couldnt make any sense of the quran myself even if i tried.