Quite difficult using a phone.

ADVERTBOARD:
Thanks Sir, tell me about the old world. what type of creatures lived before the destruction ? What led to destruction of the old world?

An understanding of who Lucifer was and his role will help us better understand the pre-Adamite world over which he ruled.

In Isaiah 14:12-14-
"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars
of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the
congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the
clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’


Lucifer invaded heaven from earth hoping to defeat God and take His kingdom.

We see from the above passage that before his defeat, he had a throne, implying a kingdom and subjects to rule.

That throne was under the clouds, under the stars, under heaven- therefore on earth.

Having weakened the nations over whom he ruled, he wanted to be like God and take His place in heaven. He led the invasion of heaven. All this had to be before Adam's day because no such things have occurred since Adam was created.

Ezekiel 28:11-17 pictures Lucifer before he fell.
The passage gives both reason for the fall and the results.

So sin led to the destruction of the pre-adamite world over which Lucifer ruled.

No wonder he comes into the garden seeking the fall of Adam who was given dominion by God over the earth.

INHABITANTS? :
The bible doesn't contradict scientific discoveries regarding the age of the world (perhaps millions of years instead of just 6000 years since Adam), Dinnosoars, homoerectus (but not evolution except of course it might have ended with the old world), etc.

Sadly, many Christians shy away from such discussions or simply brand them atheists. Like they did to the first man who insisted that the earth was spherical and not flat- he was killed by the church as a heretic. Funny enough, this had been in the bible all along (Isaiah 40:22).

Some scientists on the other hand foolishly assume that the bible is a story book and God doesn't exist.

Kudos! Your explanations are great.

donnie:


An understanding of who Lucifer was and his role will help us better understand the pre-Adamite world over which he ruled.

In Isaiah 14:12-14-
"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars
of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the
congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the
clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’


Lucifer invaded heaven from earth hoping to defeat God and take His kingdom.

We see from the above passage that before his defeat, he had a throne, implying a kingdom and subjects to rule.

That throne was under the clouds, under the stars, under heaven- therefore on earth.

Having weakened the nations over whom he ruled, he wanted to be like God and take His place in heaven. He led the invasion of heaven. All this had to be before Adam's day because no such things have occurred since Adam was created.

Ezekiel 28:11-17 pictures Lucifer before he fell.
The passage gives both reason for the fall and the results.

So sin led to the destruction of the pre-adamite world over which Lucifer ruled.

No wonder he comes into the garden seeking the fall of Adam who was given dominion by God over the earth.

INHABITANTS? :
The bible doesn't contradict scientific discoveries regarding the age of the world (perhaps millions of years instead of just 6000 years since Adam), Dinnosoars, homoerectus (but not evolution except of course it might have ended with the old world), etc.

Sadly, many Christians shy away from such discussions or simply brand them atheists. Like they did to the first man who insisted that the earth was spherical and not flat- he was killed by the church as a heretic. Funny enough, this had been in the bible all along (Isaiah 40:22).

Some scientists on the other hand foolishly assume that the bible is a story book and God doesn't exist.

ADVERTBOARD:
Kudos! Your explanations are great.

Thanks!

Toyolad:
If your question is 'who created Jehovah?' then I'd like to ask who created the Annunakis?
how did they add their DNA to ours?
You mean we were created by them?

or life had already existed before they came? If yes, how come?.. if no, then why did they create us and left? and haven't we heard from them since then?
#Curious

Annunaki,according to ancinet knowledge were mineral explorers from other galaxies who stumbled on out planet earth through a portal(Gate of Heaven,or a Stargate,Jacob's Ladder) whichever way you want to call it. They had been for millions of years,and were themselves genetically modified at some point. Out there according to the Vedas,Sumerian tablets,are billions of galaxies and millions of life forms. That is enough to know that genetic alterations have always been taking place.

You don't have to single out Jehovah. Jehovah is only an Hebrew name to an extraterrestrial,who was only one of millions of Annunaki. According to the Egyptians,the gods were themselves genetically modified. Today, humans are already doing that. Boob jobs,butt jobs and even IVF. God is only a title given to an extraterrestrial. They are nothing without advanced technology. If you go back 3,000 year with your electronic gadgets,the humans will worship you.

ifenes:


Annunaki,according to ancinet knowledge were mineral explorers from other galaxies who stumbled on out planet earth through a portal(Gate of Heaven,or a Stargate,Jacob's Ladder) whichever way you want to call it. They had been for millions of years,and were themselves genetically modified at some point. Out there according to the Vedas,Sumerian tablets,are billions of galaxies and millions of life forms. That is enough to know that genetic alterations have always been taking place.

You don't have to single out Jehovah. Jehovah is only an Hebrew name to an extraterrestrial,who was only one of millions of Annunaki. According to the Egyptians,the gods were themselves genetically modified. Today, humans are already doing that. Boob jobs,butt jobs and even IVF. God is only a title given to an extraterrestrial. They are nothing without advanced technology. If you go back 3,000 year with your electronic gadgets,the humans will worship you.

You've not answered any of my questions now #curious

Toyolad:
You've not answered any of my questions now #curious

I have. You only wanted me to recognize Jehovah when clearly,this character is not relevant. Who created who is not relevant. Lets assume Jehovah created humans,what's the big deal? The Sumerian story may not even be true,and even if it was,who cares how the Annunaki were created or not. It is a nice story still.

donnie:


Be careful because what you refer to as "this spirit" is God the Holy Spirit.

To you.

Sorry I do not see the contradiction?

Here you are again trying to use logic and human reasoning to understand the Word.

Yes, The Word pre-existed the beginning because the Word of God is eternal.

God is eternal and inexhaustible. The fact that He sent His Word to a woman called Mary, who received that Word which upon incubation of the Holy Ghost brought forth Jesus, doesn't make Him diminish or become less God.

The Father never leaves His throne. He sends His Word and His Spirit but yet He is not diminished. He is still complete God. Both the Word and the Spirit proceed from Him.

All things were created by the Word and the Holy Ghost. the Father Spoke (The Word), "Let there be light" and the Spirit brought the Word to pass.

Colossians 1:16    "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

Job 26:13  "  By his spirit He hath garnished the heavens; ..."

The Word and the Spirit are always involved in anything the Father does.

Even in the immaculate conception of Jesus in Bethlehem, The Word and the Spirit were responsible.

Angel Gabriel brought THE WORD to virgin Mary which she received by faith:

Luke 1:31    "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."

When she asked: " ... How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34)

Gabriel replied in Luke 1:35   "  .. THE HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

AGAIN, the Father sent His Word and The Spirit brought the Word to pass.

Jesus is God because he came from the Word. His life is 100% divine. His body however came from his mother. That's why He was 100% God and 100% man ( Not 50%:50%).

That is the beauty of the trinity and great is this mystery:

1Jn 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

The bible does not condemn reason/logic.

What am saying is that, the bible has identified whom God used in creating many things. Granted, it was the spirit that effects those proclamations from God and from Jesus during creation. But the creation was done through Jesus as the scriptures indicate. Col 1:15, 16. Compare Prov 8:30.

The problem you have stems from your assigning personality to the spirit. This spirit is an active force, not a person. For eg, it only a force that be described as overshadowing, pured out as Acts 2:17 says, not a spirit person.

So, why do you say God was speaking to the "Spirit" when john 1:1 shows that Jesus had been with God before the world was? You ve not answered that question, and the bible described Jesus as partaking in creating many things? Why would He live Jesus and discuss with the spirit. In fact, Prov 8:30 shows that Jesus was the one beside God during creation. I mean beside, not in him. That shows that he is a person not a literal word.

just as Job 26:13 stated that the spirit is the force that effected God's command, so did verse 12 spoke about God's power. Gods power isn't a person God spoke to during creation. Is it?

2. I agree that when God speaks a word, the spirit brings it to pass. Now, the person that spoke the word to Mary is not God, but an angel. SO even Angels voice out Jesus? Do you see how you make Jesus inanimate?

You said further:

Jesus is God because he came from the Word. His life is 100% divine. His body however came from his mother. That's why He was 100% God and 100% man ( Not 50%:50%).

That is the beauty of the trinity and great is this mystery:

1Jn 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

Jesus is the God because he came from the word. Does that not also mean that John the baptist is God cos he came from the word? Is Samson not also be called God cos he came from the word? I want us to reason this your stand. I don't see the reason behind them.

If Jesus is 100% God because he is a word that proceed from God, shouldnt the word that come from Jesus' mouth be God since Jesus is in fact God? If that does not work that way, how is Jesus 100% with God. Think about it friend.

Jhn 5:7 is not genuine.

I did not, neither did I imply, thank you.

Maybe you didn't know when you implied that. Again you stated that the word Gabriel spoke is Jesus. The word he spoke was an impersonal sound. You called that Jesus.

You also posit that Jesus is the LITERAL word of God. The utterance of God is an impersonal sound. This facts shows how you view Jesus as an impersonal sound.

Look, God's Word became Jesus and I never implied that God became dumb after Jesus' birth.

The Words that God speaks has His divine life in them. They carry His DNA. Now this divine life was tabernacled in human flesh. And He was called Jesus.

That is why He is so precious to the Father. He was the Word of the Father in flesh. .And it pleased the father that the fullness of the Godhead should dwell in Him. - Col 1:19.

And that is why we who have received The Word can talk to deaf ears, blind eyes, crippled limbs, unfavourable circumstances and have them conform to the Word. Because the Word is God.

Sir, you agreed that Jesus is the literal word of God, and that he is the word that ooze out when God or God's word comes out, that means when God speaks, he is transmitting Jesus.

Look at what you further said: The Words that God speaks has His divine life in them. They carry His DNA.

So whenever God speaks, the words have divine life called Jesus. Now I ask: when Jesus was on earth, and God spoke from heaven, was he also producing Jesuses? I dont mean to ridicule, but to let you see the mistake in this belief.

Jesus cannot be the literal word of God. God's word is an inanimate sound. Jesus is God's word in that he is God's spokesperson just like a President today do have a spokesman. Isn't that explanation reasonable?

Okay how did they know that was God? Did they see him? Did they hear His footsteps or did they hear His voice?

Thank God you are not the Holy Spirit that gave Moses the Words to put down.

What they heard was God. I hope you are not in anyway trying to belittle THE WORD.

I can never belittle the Word of God Jesus, I know you dont want to belittle him too, but I think you may have misunderstood the scripture when it called Jesus the Word of God. I understand this to mean that he is God's spokesperson, but you understand it to mean that he is the literal word of God. With scriptures I believe we can get the answer consistent with the scriptures. Thats the point.

On the question you asked, we read:

Gen 3:8-10

Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden. 9 And Jehovah God kept calling to the man and saying to him: “Where are you?” 10 Finally he said: “I heard your voice in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid myself.”

Take note of the italized phrases and the color words.

The man and the woman heard God's voice and hid. It was the voice that they used to recognize the one approaching. To show that it was the voice, the account said "God KEPT calling". So they heard God calling, that is why they ran.

The man helps us understand this conclusion. He stated why he hid himself:"I heard your voice in the garden". So he hid cos he noticed God was approaching from His voice he (Adam) heard.

Don't you think that this conclusion makes sense?

I am not going to continue this dance with you for long; especially if you are indirectly trying to get me to bail you out of an already existing confusion.

Anyways, Like I said, there's already so much written by some who share my views in this thread. When you get hooked, you will visit this thread and read.

No, no, no. If my words sounds harsh, forgive. I didn't mean to sound so. I want you to see reasons. we learn everyday.

JMAN05:


To you.

Seriously?

JMAN05:

The bible does not condemn reason/logic.

It depends on how you use logic/reason. It is wrong to allow logic/reason to make the Word ineffective.

Mark 7:13 "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..."

JMAN05:

What am saying is that, the bible has identified whom God used in creating many things. Granted, it was the spirit that effects those proclamations from God and from Jesus during creation. But the creation was done through Jesus as the scriptures indicate. Col 1:15, 16. Compare Prov 8:30.

There is no scripture you can pull up that contradicts what I have been saying- creation was done through the Word from where Jesus originated. That is what the scriptures teach. And If you back up to verse 12 of the same Prov 8 which you quoted, you will see that the writer was referring to WISDOM which is the Word from where Jesus came.

Prov 8:12 "I WISDOM dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions."

JMAN05:

The problem you have stems from your assigning personality to the spirit. This spirit is an active force, not a person. For eg, it only a force that be described as overshadowing, pured out as Acts 2:17 says, not a spirit person.

Ahah... No wonder! Was wondering why you will have such a hard time accepting simple truth from God's Word. How dare you call God the Holy Spirit an active force? You must have been reading materials from Jehovah's Witnessess or some other cult to come up with that.

The Holy Spirit is a Person, He talks (Acts 13:2), He teaches (John 14:26), He can have fellowship (2Cor 13:14) , He can be grieved (Eph 4:30), He comforts (Acts 9:31), He heals (Rom8:11), He helps (Jn 14:16), He intercedes (Rom8:26), He leads and guides (Mat 4:1, Rom8:14) etc.

He may choose to manfiest Himself as wind, fire, a cloud, water etc but He is none of that. He is a person. Let us examine the Words of Jesus concerning the Spirit.

Jn 14:15-16 "15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

"Another Comforter"= GK: Allos Parakletos

There are 2 Greek words translated as "another" in the new testament: 1. Heteros, meaning: another of a different kind and quality. 2. Allos, meaning: another of the same kind and quality.

What Jesus actually said if you study the Greek is: He shall give you "allos parakletos", meaning: another comforter that is exactly like me. Meaning the Holy Spirit looks like Jesus. He has a body, a head, hands, feet, mouth, just like Jesus. He loves, heals, teaches, guides, comforts as Jesus would.

So tell me, does a force talk, heal, teach, guide, comfort, love and intercede?

THAT IS NOT DESCRIBING A FORCE!!! You have been listening to liars, folks who lack the Spirit and its unfortunate that you believed their lies. If you say you listened to no one and came up with that, my advice is that you humble yourself, pray and then seek to know and be taught of the Holy Spirit through His Word.

I am even aware that in the JW bible, they replaced the words "He" and "Him" (as seen in John14:17; John16:13 etc) with "it" so as to sell their lies, but God will punish all who do such.

JMAN05:

So, why do you say God was speaking to the "Spirit" when john 1:1 shows that Jesus had been with God before the world was? You ve not answered that question, and the bible described Jesus as partaking in creating many things? Why would He live Jesus and discuss with the spirit.

Because the Spirit was there from the beginning, whereas there was no Jesus until He was born in Bethlehem.

Gen 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

JMAN05:

In fact, Prov 8:30 shows that Jesus was the one beside God during creation. I mean beside, not in him. That shows that he is a person not a literal word.

Prov 8:30 was refering to WISDOM which is the Word from where Jesus originated.
Look at verse 12 of the same chapter 8. It is very clearly written.

JMAN05:

2. I agree that when God speaks a word, the spirit brings it to pass. Now, the person that spoke the word to Mary is not God, but an angel. SO even Angels voice out Jesus? Do you see how you make Jesus inanimate?

Did the angel speak his words or God's Word?
All this your talk about voicing Jesus is plain childish because I never said so. There are many in the world today who are called Jesus as that is just the Greek version of the Hebrew name Yeshua from where you get Joshua. But there is one Jesus of Nazareth who was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead. One Jesus who was exalted and given a name that is above every name. Yet that does not change the fact that the Word of God put on flesh at some point in history and was called Jesus.

JMAN05:

You said further:
Jesus is the God because he came from the word. Does that not also mean that John the baptist is God cos he came from the word? Is Samson not also be called God cos he came from the word? I want us to reason this your stand. I don't see the reason behind them.

None of the above mentioned was born of a virgin. Their lives originated from the corruptible seed (sperm = Gk: sperma ) of man with fallen/sinful adamic nature. Jesus originiated from the incorruptible seed of God- His Word. (Luke 8:11, 1Pet 1:23)

JMAN05:

If Jesus is 100% God because he is a word that proceed from God, shouldnt the word that come from Jesus' mouth be God since Jesus is in fact God? If that does not work that way, how is Jesus 100% with God.

The words that come out of Jesus' mouth are 100% divine. And so are the words that come out of my mouth because we speak His Words and through His Word, I have recieved His life and have recieved the Holy Spirit.

Jn 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

JMAN05:

Think about it friend.

Think? No thank you. I'll rather allow the author of the scriptures (The Holy Ghost) give meaning to His Word.

JMAN05:

Jhn 5:7 is not genuine.

Pardon?

JMAN05:

Maybe you didn't know when you implied that. Again you stated that the word Gabriel spoke is Jesus. The word he spoke was an impersonal sound. You called that Jesus.

I didn't call the Word Gabriel spoke Jesus. I said the Word he delivered to Mary BECAME Jesus.

JMAN05:

You also posit that Jesus is the LITERAL word of God. The utterance of God is an impersonal sound. This facts shows how you view Jesus as an impersonal sound.

Sir, you agreed that Jesus is the literal word of God, and that he is the word that ooze out when God or God's word comes out, that means when God speaks, he is transmitting Jesus.

Look at what you further said: The Words that God speaks has His divine life in them. They carry His DNA.

So whenever God speaks, the words have divine life called Jesus.

Why are you fighting hard to make me say what I did not say?
Everytime you hear God's Word, you are listening to divine creative material. You are listening to the source of life from whence Jesus came.

JMAN05:

When Jesus was on earth, and God spoke from heaven, was he also producing Jesuses? I dont mean to ridicule, but to let you see the mistake in this belief.

Ridicule? Of course not. Reason is...

1Co 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

JMAN05:

Jesus cannot be the literal word of God. God's word is an inanimate sound.

YOU LIE!

Inanimate:
Noun- something that is not alive.
Adjective-
1. Not being and never having been alive.
2. Lacking the quality or ability of motion; as an inanimate object.

See What the Word says...
Heb 4:12
" For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two- edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

JMAN05:

Jesus is God's word in that he is God's spokesperson just like a President today do have a spokesman. Isn't that explanation reasonable?

Nonsense! -not making spiritual sense.
Then who was Isaiah... A spokeswoman?

JMAN05:

On the question you asked, we read:

Gen 3:8-10
The man and the woman heard God's voice and hid. It was the voice that they used to recognize the one approaching. To show that it was the voice, the account said "God KEPT calling". So they heard God calling, that is why they ran.

The man helps us understand this conclusion. He stated why he hid himself:"I heard your voice in the garden". So he hid cos he noticed God was approaching from His voice he (Adam) heard.

Don't you think that this conclusion makes sense?

If he heard His voice, that means he heard THE WORD and knew it was God, Period.

JMAN05:

No, no, no. If my words sounds harsh, forgive. I didn't mean to sound so. I want you to see reasons. we learn everyday.

Thanks, I hope you don't misunderstand my style of writing which may appear harsh or arrogant. I find that I do not take it lightly each time i am confronted with teachings i consider false, hence my outburts sometimes.

.

.

donnie:

It depends on how you use logic/reason. It is wrong to allow logic/reason to make the Word ineffective.

Mark 7:13 "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..."

It should not be used to make God's word invalid as you said, and neither am I doing that.

There is no scripture you can pull up that contradicts what I have been saying- creation was done through the Word from where Jesus originated. That is what the scriptures teach. And If you back up to verse 12 of the same Prov 8 which you quoted, you will see that the writer was referring to WISDOM which is the Word from where Jesus came.

From the bold faced phrase, you seem to imply that Jesus is not the literal word, but originated therefrom. Is this your position?

Prov 8:12 "I WISDOM dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions."

That place speaks of wisdom, but this is wisdom personified. And the context shows that the bible is allegorically talking about Jesus who is endowed with the wisdom of God.

Let me ask you: Do you think that God's wisdom was created?

Some Bible Scholars agree that these verse is talking about Jesus.

In his work, Exposition of the Epistle to the Hebrew, John Owen said after quoting Prov 8:22-31:

We must first secure this testimony against those who have attempted to deprive the church of God of its use and advantage, and then improve it unto our present purpose. In the ancient church none questioned but that the Wisdom which here discourseth is the Son of God; only the Arians greatly endeavored to corrupt the sense of one passage in it, and thereby to wrest the whole to give countenance unto their heresy.

What interests me there is that he stated that this view, ie Jesus as the wisdom of that Prov 8, is an ancient belief, and he went further to condemn a belief to the contrary.

A commentary called The Bible Illustrator (Old Testament), states after quoting Prov 8:30:

The delights between the Father and the Son, before His assumption of our nature, were twofold.

1. They delighted in one another without communicating their joys to any other; for no creature did then exist save in the mind of God.

That is just some. Dont you see reasons to accept that Jesus was the one the Father was talking to?

Ahah... No wonder! Was wondering why you will have such a hard time accepting simple truth from God's Word. How dare you call God the Holy Spirit an active force? You must have been reading materials from Jehovah's Witnessess or some other cult to come up with that.

The Holy Spirit is a Person, He talks (Acts 13:2), He teaches (John 14:26), He can have fellowship (2Cor 13:14) , He can be grieved (Eph 4:30), He comforts (Acts 9:31), He heals (Rom8:11), He helps (Jn 14:16), He intercedes (Rom8:26), He leads and guides (Mat 4:1, Rom8:14) etc.

He may choose to manfiest Himself as wind, fire, a cloud, water etc but He is none of that. He is a person. Let us examine the Words of Jesus concerning the Spirit.

Jn 14:15-16 "15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

"Another Comforter"= GK: Allos Parakletos

There are 2 Greek words translated as "another" in the new testament: 1. Heteros, meaning: another of a different kind and quality. 2. Allos, meaning: another of the same kind and quality.

What Jesus actually said if you study the Greek is: He shall give you "allos parakletos", meaning: another comforter that is exactly like me. Meaning the Holy Spirit looks like Jesus. He has a body, a head, hands, feet, mouth, just like Jesus. He loves, heals, teaches, guides, comforts as Jesus would.

So tell me, does a force talk, heal, teach, guide, comfort, love and intercede?

THAT IS NOT DESCRIBING A FORCE!!! You have been listening to liars, folks who lack the Spirit and its unfortunate that you believed their lies. If you say you listened to no one and came up with that, my advice is that you humble yourself, pray and then seek to know and be taught of the Holy Spirit through His Word.

I am even aware that in the JW bible, they replaced the words "He" and "Him" (as seen in John14:17; John16:13 etc) with "it" so as to sell their lies, but God will punish all who do such.

Inanimate things are often given animate attributes, even though they are not. The wisdom at Prov 8 is one example, Prov 1:20-33 is another. The apostle Paul personalized sin and death and also undeserved kindness as “kings.” (Ro 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) He speaks of sin as “receiving an inducement,” ‘working out covetousness,’ ‘seducing,’ and ‘killing.’ (Ro 7:8-11) Yet it is obvious that Paul did not mean that sin was actually a person.

But we can discuss this issue of spirit if you wish. But that needs a new thread. So that we can focus this one on one topic. What do you think?

Because the Spirit was there from the beginning, whereas there was no Jesus until He was born in Bethlehem.

Gen 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

If I understand you, you mean to say that the individual or the person later called Jesus in the first century AD did not exist until he was born by a virgin Mary. Or you mean that the name did not exist then?

Please give a clear answer let me understand you.

Prov 8:30 was refering to WISDOM which is the Word from where Jesus originated.
Look at verse 12 of the same chapter 8. It is very clearly written.

The bold-faced expression shows that you believe that Jesus came from the word. He is thus not the word. Lets break it down:

Wisdom = The Word

Jesus ORIGINATED from The Word not that Jesus is the Word, at least for some time.

And Jesus is not = The Wisdom only that he originated from it/"him".

That's the implication of the statement. If that is not what you have in mind, pls rephrase.

Did the angel speak his words or God's Word?
All this your talk about voicing Jesus is plain childish because I never said so. There are many in the world today who are called Jesus as that is just the Greek version of the Hebrew name Yeshua from where you get Joshua. But there is one Jesus of Nazareth who was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead. One Jesus who was exalted and given a name that is above every name. Yet that does not change the fact that the Word of God put on flesh at some point in history and was called Jesus.

Now, lets do it this way and assume it never happened. Can you please take back your agreement you gave above to the effect that Jesus is a LITERAL Word of God, and that when God speaks, he oozes out Jesus? Can you take them back, let us close that chapter since you dont agree with the implication. Because LITERAL is LITERAL.

None of the above mentioned was born of a virgin. Their lives originated from the corruptible seed (sperm = Gk: sperma ) of man with fallen/sinful adamic nature. Jesus originiated from the incorruptible seed of God- His Word. (Luke 8:11, 1Pet 1:23)

That's not the point. Let me remind you your statement. You said: Jesus is God because he came from the Word.

You never said: Jesus is God because he came from the word and was delivered by a virgin without sperm. Thats the point. You omitted the italized words. As such, the word of God conveyed by an angel didnt end with Mary. Manoah's wife and Elizabeth received such, and their offspring should be called Gods if your statement is to be consistent.

You have the opportunity to take back your words or rephrase it, if you see it as a mistake. We all do err.

The words that come out of Jesus' mouth are 100% divine. And so are the words that come out of my mouth because we speak His Words and through His Word, I have recieved His life and have recieved the Holy Spirit.

Jn 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Let me ask the question again. I do not want you to say that it is not what you said.

If Jesus is 100% God because he is a word that proceed from God, shouldn't the word that come from Jesus' mouth be God since Jesus is in fact God? If that does not work that way, how is Jesus 100% with God

By your answer above, you agree that the words that come from Jesus' mouth are 100% God. Is that what you mean?

Pls think about the implication of whatever you are going to say.

Think? No thank you. I'll rather allow the author of the scriptures (The Holy Ghost) give meaning to His Word.

Drop the over-righteous attitude. The scripture never condemn thinking about a matter. 1Tim 4:15

Pardon?

For what?

I didn't call the Word Gabriel spoke Jesus. I said the Word he delivered to Mary BECAME Jesus.

ok.

Why are you fighting hard to make me say what I did not say?
Everytime you hear God's Word, you are listening to divine creative material. You are listening to the source of life from whence Jesus came.

You are a Christian and I will appreciate your candor sir,

You said:

The Words that God speaks has His divine life in them. They carry His DNA.

One dictionary define "divine" as "being God or a god or goddess."

Are you not using divine in the context of "God"? You went on to say the word carry God's DNA. Explain.

IF I misunderstand your words, pls help me understand.

Ridicule? Of course not. Reason is...

1Co 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

You ve not answered the question. I can in fact use the same scripture against you since you dont understand the reasonableness of my stand, you are thus a natural man.

So, can we weigh our positions. I ask again:

When Jesus was on earth, and God spoke from heaven, was he also producing Jesuses?

YOU LIE!

Inanimate:
Noun- something that is not alive.
Adjective-
1. Not being and never having been alive.
2. Lacking the quality or ability of motion; as an inanimate object.

See What the Word says...
Heb 4:12
" For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two- edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

You misunderstand that verse. It does not mean that the word is literally living as if is a person.

Barnes' Note states:

he "Word of God" is "what God speaks" - whether it be a promise or a threatening; whether it be Law or gospel; whether it be a simple declaration or a statement of a doctrine. The idea here is, that what "God had said" is suited to detect hypocrisy and to lay open the true nature of the feelings of the soul, so that there can be no escape for the guilty. His "truth" is adapted to bring out the real feelings, and to show man exactly what he is.

Greek zoon
- "living." It is not dead, inert, and powerless. It has a "living" power, and is energetic and active. It is "adapted" to produce this effect.

Nonsense! -not making spiritual sense.
Then who was Isaiah... A spokeswoman?

Is Isaiah called the Word of God?

If he heard His voice, that means he heard THE WORD and knew it was God, Period.

Firstly, let me isolate this phrase: "heard THE WORD". You can only hear sound not person, is that not true?

And your associating voice with The Word and using "heard" for them shows something you dont want to admit; that The Word, to you, is the same as a voice.
..............................................................................................................................................................

Aside from assigning personality to The Word, I agree with your statement.

Thanks, I hope you don't misunderstand my style of writing which may appear harsh or arrogant. I find that I do not take it lightly each time i am confronted with teachings i consider false, hence my outburts sometimes.

ok, I feel the same way, but I want to control myself. You can too.

Interesting contributions

.

.

ifenes:


The book of Genesis was originally written by the Sumerians. "Let there be light" was added by the editors of the Bible.It had nothing to do with a god. The Sumerians recognized the Sun as the light of the world. The Sun came to rescue life on the planet according to them.

"Let us make man in our image" was a conversation between biological beings who visited the planet to mine gold. They were called the Giants,The Elohim,"sons of god". El is singular god,Elohim is plural in Aramaic. The Sumerians called them The Anunnaki(those who from heaven come)

This is why it is obvious there is no god. The Bible is an Aurthur of confusion.

See this one?

dolphinheart:


you need to explain " the image of God for a better understand".

not sure, but I dnt think there is redemption for any perfect being. If there is , can you give an example? that's why I dnt thing God will redeem any angel, cus they where perfect and know the full implication of their choices.
never read God the son and God the holy spirit, are you saying there are 3 God's talking to each other.

Then who are the "US"?
because, 1 John 5:7 says; So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;
And;
John 1:1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.

So, who are the 'Us' because according John Chapter 1, Angels weren't part of creation.

ifenes:


This is a Nigerian thread where 99.9% of its members are 400 years in the past. This is something an average white kid knows. It is shocking to see you all think Genesis isn't about Extra dimensional beings. I leave you in your past.

Vooks asked you to show what you as an African or a Nigerian Atheists have achieved, you ran away. You keep talking about the white kids. They don't believe in God, and they do all they do, now you dodn't believe in God, what have you done? For once show us. An average African or Nigerian who believe In God is 400years behind. You are an Atheist and doesn't believe in such nonsense, you are up to date right? How have you added to the well being of the your country, aside from stupid talking?

ifenes:


Then who created Jehovah? Our ancestors who evolved on this planet got in contact with ancient visitors at some point,who in turned added their DNA to ours.

Ifeness, seriously, how old are you? How can you be asking who created Jehovah? Chie, small pikins dem full dis forum.

eplanning:



He was talking to the Holy Ghost because there was no Son as yet. He was still the Word in the bossom of the father. There was no Jesus there according to the bible.

The Father spoke The Word, "let there be light" and The Spirit brought The Word to pass. That is how creation came into being.

He was there, he just wasn't called by the name Jesus. He was the one who appeared to Joshua as the Captain of the Lord's Army". Joshua worshipped him, he accepted the worship. Angels will never accept worship. And, when you read through the old Testament observe, there are sometimes you come across "LORD" God, and Lord God. The Lord is refers to Jesus. While LORD refers to Yahweh. e.g, in Psalm 110:1. David said, "The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand until I make the enemies they footstool.
He has always been there. It was the act of redemption that gave Him the name" Jesus christ".

analice107:

Vooks asked you to show what you as an African or a Nigerian Atheists have achieved, you ran away. You keep talking about the white kids. They don't believe in God, and they do all they do, now you dodn't believe in God, what have you done? For once show us. An average African or Nigerian who believe In God is 400years behind. You are an Atheist and doesn't believe in such nonsense, you are up to date right? How have you added to the well being of the your country, aside from stupid talking?

I ran away to where? Your goal as a human is to improve your mind capacity. I don't care about Nigeria,but I do care about the human race. My contributions includes being a part of change to humanity and also helping people like you stop being a slave to religion,help you see yourself as equals to your pastors and Bishops.

analice107:

Vooks asked you to show what you as an African or a Nigerian Atheists have achieved, you ran away. You keep talking about the white kids. They don't believe in God, and they do all they do, now you dodn't believe in God, what have you done? For once show us. An average African or Nigerian who believe In God is 400years behind. You are an Atheist and doesn't believe in such nonsense, you are up to date right? How have you added to the well being of the your country, aside from stupid talking?

I ran away to where? Your goal as a human is to improve your mind capacity. I don't care about Nigeria,but I do care about the human race. My contributions includes being a part of change to humanity and also helping people like you stop being a slave to religion,help you see yourself as equals to your pastors and Bishops.

Life doesn't evolve around Nigeria. You need to do some traveling.

JMAN05:

From the bold faced phrase, you seem to imply that Jesus is not the literal word, but originated therefrom. Is this your position?

The literal Word of God became flesh (Jesus ). That's why it is perfecrtly in order to call Him the Word of God.

JMAN05:

That place speaks of wisdom, but this is wisdom personified. And the context shows that the bible is allegorically talking about Jesus who is endowed with the wisdom of God.

You'd wish it did talk about Jesus but it didn't. However, those scriptures reveal His personality because Jesus is the Word of God- The wisdom of God. That's why it is perfectly in order to say Jesus created the world, but you must understand in what context.

JMAN05:


Let me ask you: Do you think that God's wisdom was created?

Of course not! God was not created. He is eternal- Therefore His wisdom is eternal.

JMAN05:


Some Bible Scholars agree that these verse is talking about Jesus.

.
I'm aware of that fact.

JMAN05:


In his work, Exposition of the Epistle to the Hebrew, John Owen said after quoting Prov 8:22-31:

We must first secure this testimony against those who have attempted to deprive the church of God of its use and advantage, and then improve it unto our present purpose. In the ancient church none questioned but that the Wisdom which here discourseth is the Son of God; only the Arians greatly endeavored to corrupt the sense of one passage in it, and thereby to wrest the whole to give countenance unto their heresy.

Yea, they're of your school of thought.
I agree and am convinced that Jesus is the eternal creator of heaven and earth and that is because He is the Word of God.

But that tale of Jesus walking around in heaven and transforming into a little thing and injected into Mary.... Then pretends to be a baby (even though he knew all of them) is a joke. It's not in the Bible.

JMAN05:


What interests me there is that he stated that this view, ie Jesus as the wisdom of that Prov 8, is an ancient belief, and he went further to condemn a belief to the contrary.

And so what? John Owen is not God.

JMAN05:

A commentary called The Bible Illustrator (Old Testament), states after quoting Prov 8:30:

The delights between the Father and the Son, before His assumption of our nature, were twofold.

1. They delighted in one another without communicating their joys to any other; for no creature did then exist save in the mind of God.

That is just some. Dont you see reasons to accept that Jesus was the one the Father was talking to?

Have you ever fellowshiped with wisdom(the Word) before? If you haven't, I have. It is a beautiful fellowship. And by the way, Jesus didn't appear physically in my room. This is one of the benefits of having the Holy Spirit in your life. He makes fellowship with the father and the Son possible.

JMAN05:

Inanimate things are often given animate attributes, even though they are not. The wisdom at Prov 8 is one example, Prov 1:20-33 is another. The apostle Paul personalized sin and death and also undeserved kindness as “kings.” (Ro 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) He speaks of sin as “receiving an inducement,” ‘working out covetousness,’ ‘seducing,’ and ‘killing.’ (Ro 7:8-11) Yet it is obvious that Paul did not mean that sin was actually a person.

So you read those references I gave about the Holy Spirit and were still able to write the above? I give up. You have won, because that is what it comes down to without the Holy Ghost -argument.

JMAN05:

But we can discuss this issue of spirit if you wish. But that needs a new thread. So that we can focus this one on one topic. What do you think?

Okay, but please I cannot prove Holy Ghost by argument. I will only write hoping that He will use my words to reveal Himself to as many as He Wills.

JMAN05:

If I understand you, you mean to say that the individual or the person later called Jesus in the first century AD did not exist until he was born by a virgin Mary. Or you mean that the name did not exist then?

The Person called Jesus did not exist until He was born of a virgin in Bethlehem. Is that clear enough?

JMAN05:


The bold-faced expression shows that you believe that Jesus came from the word. He is thus not the word. Lets break it down:

Jesus is the Word. The Bible calls Him the Word because the Word put on flesh and was called Jesus. Jn 1:14.

JMAN05:


Wisdom = The Word

Jesus ORIGINATED from The Word not that Jesus is the Word, at least for some time.

And Jesus is not = The Wisdom only that he originated from it/"him".

That's the implication of the statement. If that is not what you have in mind, pls rephrase
Now, lets do it this way and assume it never happened. Can you please take back your agreement you gave above to the effect that Jesus is a LITERAL Word of God, and that when God speaks, he oozes out Jesus? Can you take them back, let us close that chapter since you dont agree with the implication. Because LITERAL is LITERAL.

I am not into semantics. I am not out to prove how smartly I argue. I'm simply dishing out truth and children of truth will receive it.

JESUS IS THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD THAT BECAME FLESH and it is perfectly scriptural to call Him the Word.

But there is no room for that tale of His existence as Jesus in heaven before He was born on earth except of course through THE WORD.

JMAN05:

That's not the point. Let me remind you your statement. You said: Jesus is God because he came from the Word.

You never said: Jesus is God because he came from the word and was delivered by a virgin without sperm.
Thats the point. You omitted the italized words.

Haha, so I am now under obligation to reveal truth to you? Noo. Your attempt to rubbish this revelation failed. Accept the truth.

JMAN05:

You omitted the italized words. As such, the word of God conveyed by an angel didnt end with Mary. Manoah's wife and Elizabeth received such, and their offspring should be called Gods if your statement is to be consistent.

You have the opportunity to take back your words or rephrase it, if you see it as a mistake. We all do err.

Let me ask the question again. I do not want you to say that it is not what you said.

If Jesus is 100% God because he is a word that proceed from God, shouldn't the word that come from Jesus' mouth be God since Jesus is in fact God? If that does not work that way, how is Jesus 100% with God

Its like you like the Merry-go-round game? Well I've outgrown that. I'm taking back nothing. Truth is as revealed in the scriptures. All truth is parallel, no contradictions; so quit trying to be smart.

From what I've seen so far, you do not have strong spiritual convictions as everything is down to "reason". You try to make the scriptures say what they are not saying and then even where truth is so clearly seen, you do your best to water it down to the senses. Please read my previous posts meditatively.

JMAN05:


By your answer above, you agree that the words that come from Jesus' mouth are 100% God. Is that what you mean?

Pls think about the implication of whatever you are going to say.

There he goes again...Abeg you don win. I no do again. Truth is already out there for all to see and believe.

JMAN05:

For what?

I didnt get your point.

JMAN05:

You said:

One dictionary define "divine" as "being God or a god or goddess."

Are you not using divine in the context of "God"? You went on to say the word carry God's DNA. Explain.

IF I misunderstand your words, pls help me understand.



You ve not answered the question. I can in fact use the same scripture against you since you dont understand the reasonableness of my stand, you are thus a natural man.

So, can we weigh our positions. I ask again:

When Jesus was on earth, and God spoke from heaven, was he also producing Jesuses?

No because there is only one Jesus who is the Christ. But God's Word is not less efficacious than Jesus. Because they are one.

JMAN05:


You misunderstand that verse. It does not mean that the word is literally living as if is a person.

Show me a scripture that says the Word is inanimate or dead. Otherwise shut up.

JMAN05:

Barnes' Note states:

he "Word of God" is "what God speaks" - whether it be a promise or a threatening; whether it be Law or gospel; whether it be a simple declaration or a statement of a doctrine. The idea here is, that what "God had said" is suited to detect hypocrisy and to lay open the true nature of the feelings of the soul, so that there can be no escape for the guilty. His "truth" is adapted to bring out the real feelings, and to show man exactly what he is.

Greek zoon
- "living." It is not dead, inert, and powerless. It has a "living" power, and is energetic and active. It is "adapted" to produce this effect.

And your point is?

JMAN05:

Is Isaiah called the Word of God?

No. He is one of God's spokesmen. God wanted a son, He already had lots of spokesmen.

JMAN05:


Firstly, let me isolate this phrase: "heard THE WORD". You can only hear sound not person, is that not true?

And your associating voice with The Word and using "heard" for them shows something you dont want to admit; that The Word, to you, is the same as a voice.
..............................................................................................................................................................

Aside from assigning personality to The Word, I agree with your statement.

When you hear your president on radio, do you say you heard your president's voice on radio or you say you heard your president on radio?

ifenes:


I ran away to where? Your goal as a human is to improve your mind capacity. I don't care about Nigeria,but I do care about the human race. My contributions includes being a part of change to humanity and also helping people like you stop being a slave to religion,help you see yourself as equals to your pastors and Bishops.

Life doesn't evolve around Nigeria. You need to do some traveling.

So you are saying that, all you have are empty childish rants? Why will you care about Nigeria? Neo-colonial Slave.

analice107:

So you are saying that, all you have are empty childish rants? Why will you care about Nigeria? Neo-colonial Slave.

Humanity is one. Not only Nigeria. I hope you can understand that. Who is the bible slave? You or me?

analice107:

Then who are the "US"?
because, 1 John 5:7 says; So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;
And;
John 1:1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.

So, who are the 'Us' because according John Chapter 1, Angels weren't part of creation.

1. you did not give us an explanation on " the image of God"

2: who are the "us":
proverbs 8:30English Standard Version
then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,[/b]

the "him" and "master workman" are the "us".

3. 1 john 5:7:

I checked numerous translations and did not find those words you quoted in most of them. I concluded that this ommission is not about translation or meaning of a sentence, cus a large part of your quote cannot be found in those translations.
decided to dig deeper on 1: John 5: 7 and Wikipedia has these to say about the verse(note: I checked other info too.

[b]The Comma Johanneum (or Johannine Comma or Heavenly Witnesses) is a comma (a short clause) in the First Epistle of John, 1 John 5:7–8 . The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in subsequent copies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

so for us to discuss that verse, we must first adress the view that the words you quoted are not part of what John originally wrote down.

4. John 1:1
we could go on and on on what the verse really said, but if we examine your views on that verse , you explanations will contradict your views.
The discussion is about the statement God made at the time he wanted to create man, man was not created at the beginning of anything!, therefore comparing when angels existed to when man existed and linking it up with John 1:1 is wrong process.
John 1:1 was before the angels and men, so who was in existence when God made the statement "let us"

5. where the angels in existence when God said "let us", the answer is yes!
man was not created until the world was created, but the angels where present during the creation of the world.
job 38: 4-7(NIV)
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?

dolphinheart:


1. you did not give us an explanation on " the image of God"

2: who are the "us":
proverbs 8:30English Standard Version
then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,[/b]

the "him" and "master workman" are the "us".

3. 1 john 5:7:

I checked numerous translations and did not find those words you quoted in most of them. I concluded that this ommission is not about translation or meaning of a sentence, cus a large part of your quote cannot be found in those translations.
decided to dig deeper on 1: John 5: 7 and Wikipedia has these to say about the verse(note: I checked other info too.

[b]The Comma Johanneum (or Johannine Comma or Heavenly Witnesses) is a comma (a short clause) in the First Epistle of John, 1 John 5:7–8 . The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in subsequent copies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

so for us to discuss that verse, we must first adress the view that the words you quoted are not part of what John originally wrote down.

4. John 1:1
we could go on and on on what the verse really said, but if we examine your views on that verse , you explanations will contradict your views.
The discussion is about the statement God made at the time he wanted to create man, man was not created at the beginning of anything!, therefore comparing when angels existed to when man existed and linking it up with John 1:1 is wrong process.
John 1:1 was before the angels and men, so who was in existence when God made the statement "let us"

5. where the angels in existence when God said "let us", the answer is yes!
man was not created until the world was created, but the angels where present during the creation of the world.
job 38: 4-7(NIV)
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?

Which of my quote couldn't you find?
I was the one who asked you about God's image. You want to turn it around. I posted 1st John, you left it and went to Proverbs, and job?

ifenes:


Humanity is one. Not only Nigeria. I hope you can understand that. Who is the bible slave? You or me?

Shouldn't you be happy to be a Bible slave?
You are a salve to the white Atheists. This type of slavery. you gave them the chains and instructed them on how firm the chains should be fixed. At least, when the colonialist came, they stole or bought people against their will. But you are a willing slave.

analice107:

Shouldn't you be happy to be a Bible slave?
You are a salve to the white Atheists. This type of slavery. you gave them the chains and instructed them on how firm the chains should be fixed. At least, when the colonialist came, they stole or bought people against their will. But you are a willing slave.

So you agree you are a Bible slave Atheism means not believing any any form of god,spot the difference! It is not a white man's philosophy. Atheism is the first and the last. The way things started (before invention of gods) and the way things will end(after the destruction of all gods). Good-luck slave!

ifenes:


So you agree you are a Bible slave Atheism means not believing any any form of god,spot the difference! It is not a white man's philosophy. Atheism is the first and the last. The way things started (before invention of gods) and the way things will end(after the destruction of all gods). Good-luck slave!

And I asked you to show with proves your concrete achievements as an atheist. Not blabbings. Stuff like, "as an intelligent atheist that I am, I have invented this and I have fix this problem in my society, I have met that need and have touched and changed that life". I need specifics. No idiotic jibes.
Am making you feeling important innit?

JMAN05:
That place speaks of wisdom, but this is wisdom personified. And the context shows that the bible is allegorically talking [size=14pt]about Jesus who is endowed with the wisdom of God.[/size]

Some Bible Scholars agree that these verse is talking about Jesus.

In his work, Exposition of the Epistle to the Hebrew, John Owen said after quoting Prov 8:22-31:

What interests me there is that he stated that this view, ie Jesus as the wisdom of that Prov 8, is an ancient belief, and he went further to condemn a belief to the contrary.

A commentary called The Bible Illustrator (Old Testament), states after quoting Prov 8:30:

The delights between the Father and the Son, before His assumption of our nature, were twofold.

1. They delighted in one another without communicating their joys to any other; for no creature did then exist save in the mind of God.

That is just some. Dont you see reasons to accept that Jesus was the one the Father was talking to?

So what are these Bible Scholars say about other Biblical passages like John 1:1, Heb 1:6, 8; Col 1:15; 2:9? If you know you're truly presenting their view about Bible and not just cherry picking their statement.

Imaging, after you said the @bold you can still go ahead to ask that question. Very pathetic!

Inanimate things are often given animate attributes, even though they are not. The wisdom at Prov 8 is one example

Now you said Wisdom is an inanimate thing according to Prov :8 but said someone must see the reason to accept that Jesus was the one The Father was talking to in Prov 8 above. SMH

Barnes' Note states:

he "Word of God" is "what God speaks" - whether it be a promise or a threatening; whether it be Law or gospel; whether it be a simple declaration or a statement of a doctrine. The idea here is, that what "God had said" is suited to detect hypocrisy and to lay open the true nature of the feelings of the soul, so that there can be no escape for the guilty. His "truth" is adapted to bring out the real feelings, and to show man exactly what he is.

Greek zoon
- "living." It is not dead, inert, and powerless. It has a "living" power, and is energetic and active. It is "adapted" to produce this effect.

Now quoting Barnes but can you give us some quote from Barnes about other Biblical passages i.e John 1:1, Heb 1:6, 8; Col 1:15; 2:9?

Failure to do so will show the level of your hypocrisy.

Mind you I have ALL Barnes' COMMENTARY with me.

Emusan:


So what are these Bible Scholars say about other Biblical passages like John 1:1, Heb 1:6, 8; Col 1:15; 2:9? If you know you're truly presenting their view about Bible and not just cherry picking their statement.

Imaging, after you said the @bold you can still go ahead to ask that question. Very pathetic!



Now you said Wisdom is an inanimate thing according to Prov :8 but said someone must see the reason to accept that Jesus was the one The Father was talking to in Prov 8 above. SMH



Now quoting Barnes but can you give us some quote from Barnes about other Biblical passages i.e John 1:1, Heb 1:6, 8; Col 1:15; 2:9?

Failure to do so will show the level of your hypocrisy.

Mind you I have ALL Barnes' COMMENTARY with me.

If you dont mind the discussion is not between me and you. Can you possibly ignore any reply I make here. I will love it if you do.

I appreciate your understanding.

Thanks!