People are born to be leaders, not made.

Please, nobody is born a leader. We all have leadership potential in us, we grow into leaders when placed in certain circumstances.

Corruption and evasion capabilities is a leadership quality as you say, considering that you even gladly make mention of such a skill ? Help me here?

Swindling the nation is not a day job. It requires good organizational skills, good incentives for your co-perpetrators to carry it out. Definitely a sign that these guys can organize things.

Hmm yes we do, but non of this big successful companies pay loyal taxes, or are even obliged ethically to do so, yet you claim they might have the leadership skills and motivation besides loyalty to lead a country forward?

Ask yourself this, what does these guys not paying taxes have to do with their leadership abilities? They are leading the firms and churches and whether they can pay tax or not has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps you might want to re-explain the role of that commitment or did you mean loyalty or patriotism? I am a little bit confuse on how that has impact on leadership roles? Who needs it more the followers or the leaders? What role does each play?

We always have this problem when we appoing someone to lead us. How do you know the person will fulfill his commitments when he gets into office? We do not know for sure but we can change his incentives such that he'll be forced to do what he said he will do prior to getting into office. Credible threat of removal from his post if he fails is a good start. We do not really care about what our politicians do unless we hear it from EFCC, this means that they'll take their chances and be corrupt as long as they avoid EFCC. We need to show genuine interest in national affairs so these guys will know theyr'e being watched.

Again, I forget where I read the quote that "You cannot put a man in a position of power and expect him to live in penury". Paying them good wages also ensures they won't be corrupt and resort to looting to feed their families. The issue of greed is too complicated to get into. In my own little world, I'll say make it a law that a public office holder be executed for mismanaging of funds and you'll see these guys become good leaders automatically. Even better, all these poor leaders will leave and the guys with genuine interest in the nation will come out to lead us.

The issue of greed is too complicated to get into. In my own little world, I'll say make it a law that a public office holder be executed for mismanaging of funds and you'll see these guys become good leaders automatically. Even better, all these poor leaders will leave and the guys with genuine interest in the nation will come out to lead us.

And then the whites will kill him.

They'll arm somebody black to perform a coup and Nigeria is back to square one.

So all the leaders are in between a rock and a hardplace, from day one. No matter how genuine they begin.

What are you talking about?, Whites have no interest in killing a non-corrupt leader.

are u sure? i think there are ppl out there that get paid for killing! maybe KGB might help u out or CIA!

Yeah, they kill the corrupt leaders, they kill the non-corrupt leader. Where does that leave everybody then?

i leaves everybody that work against their criminal interest in de dark

So what is their interest?, Corruption or non-corruption or are you saying their interest is always the opposite of ours? When we are corrupt, they want non-corrupt and when we're not corrupt, they want corruption. Clear it up here Superman, clear it up!

Donzman,

It's not in the whiteman's interest to have leader for the people in charge. It is easily admitted that America has killed or taken out 43 leaders in the South America in the last 100 years.

All leaders the people overwhelming loved.

Didn't you hear Pat Robinson that we need to take Venuzela's president out. He has gotten over 90+ percent of the vote but our Christian leaders in America, openly call for his removal. He was making it palatable to Christians, incase GBjr. did it.

You can't be that naive.

Do names like Charles Taylor ring a bell?

They go to war to get rid of CT, To no avail. George Bush tells him to leave. He leaves. Do you ever ask yourself why what GB said mattered more to CT than his whole country fighting against him? Then they threw him in jail, to keep his mouth shut.

Saddem wouldn't leave when they ordered him, he was taken out.

Marcos of the phillipines left and then they threw him in jail to keep his mouth shut.

When they get tired of these leaders they installed, they take them out.

The idea that America is hoping all the best for Africans rest on false ideas of what is really going on in this world.

You lost all credibility when you mentioned Charles Taylor as an example of a leader loved by his people. Charles freaking Taylor a loved leader?

Marcos of the phillipines left and then they threw him in jail to keep his mouth shut.

Marcos was a corrupt hopeless leader who left his country in shambles. America is not perfect and they make mistakes, they made a mistake with Saddam and Marcos and they've taken care of the Marcos mistake.

Donzman,

I did not mention Charles Taylor as a loved leader, rather as a hated one whose people were against him. You got that twisted.

All the butchered Liberians in the world did not matter to CT and he was not leaving untill GB said leave. You totally evade the point I was making. Charles Taylors moved out when his backers said get out.

, Or maybe he went out when the international pressure on him was too much for him to remain in power and he agreed on an exile to Nigeria.

Donzman,

Yeah. That's the ticket.

wow, here is the biggest joke of the year. a leader loved so much by his people.
Chris Ngige was loved by his people yet he was removed. Peter was the best, he was removed. IBB would always tell the international communities that nigeria is big enough to take care of herself. Abacha was so much loved by his people as u witnessed in his 2 million match. Saddam was always having 100% vote and robert Mugabe is enjoying the same love.
we have decided to decieve ourselves and run away from the truth.
if obj comes as a normal person and ask for the people's real mind, everyone of us hear will agree with me that at least 80% of nigerian will call for his head but u see the situation makes him the most loved because saying ur real mind can take u to the world beneath.
Jesus Christ not withstanding his miracles and wonders did not enjoy the kind of love our so called leaders are claiming to have today and that is deciet at its best.
we are talking about places where ordinary protest can make leaders to resign. who among us is ready to match to aso rock? why would a minister like Borishade still exist as minister after his tenure as the minister of education experienced the highest number of Asu and non-Asu strikes, his tenure as aviation minister experienced the highest number of air crashes with the faith of our culture yet unknown now that he is there.
we have qualified die hard leaders who are professional leaders who will always come back no matter how they left.
shameless politicians who will tell u that the people want me.
which people want u? we are one good people decieving ourselves.

A European leader? Not at all!
A white man does nothing but plan & execute. Observe & Improve.
An African can do the same thing and even better.

The problem of Nigeria is not ethnicity or that a Nigerian is rulling us.
Our problem is that there is always a greedy oligarchy with nothing in heart but lust for power at the helm of affairs. Now tell me where that situation was a good thing or desirable.
The American people were run by a British crown (white) and they rebelled cause it was not in their interest.

In our case here in Nigeria we have never been able to rebel cause the Oligarchs use some policy, divide and rule. They pay some people who mortgage their conscience and then threaten the rest of us with zombie soldiers brandishing guns/whips.

People should think clearly when making such claims as these.

some ppl brain needed to be scaned! what a cucumber haaa

Yeah yeah!

Again I insist the threadstarter has reached his conclusions because he/she asked the wrong questions or did not even know which questions to ask. See, the problem is not that these leaders are "bad" per se, these guys can lead people to swindle large funds without being noticed, we have Nigerians that run big successful companies, we have Nigerians that run huge churches. These guys are leading the nation but they're not doing it in ways that will benefit the nation but ways that will benefit them. I have no doubt then that if given the right incentives, they will lead the people the way the people want to be led.

The problem lies with we common Nigerians. We have not provided any incentives to make these people commit in advance to be good leaders after they have been elected. This is a commitment problem here and every nation on this planet has had or is having this problem. How do we know you are going to abide by your promises after you've been elected? We the people need to provide big enough incentives, apprently more than the obvious "the people are suffering" reasons. We need to be able to let them know they will be impeached or removed from office if things do not go the way the promised. The constitution should provide for this somehow. We should be able to contact members of House of Reps./Senate from out ward and inform them of our complaints and hope they'll work to solve our problems. Again, there is no doubt in my mind that these guys can lead, we just don't give them a good enough reason to show good leadership.

Now some skeptic out there will be wondering, why don't Europeans and white nations have this same commitment problem from their leaders?, The answer is quite simple, they had these problems about 500 years ago and they've been able to resolve it and move forward. Think of England under the Stuarts (King JamesI, King Charles e.t.c.), their "bad" leadership led to the Glorious Revolution which forced a change in the constitution giving more power to the parliament. This provided a credible threat for the king to be removed if he does not do what the people wants. This threat of dethronement provided the incentive these supposedly "bad" leaders needed to become good leaders. If the English thought like Shango back then, they would have called for some Egyptian to come and lead them seeing how they could not lead themselves. Instead they were able to figure out that these bad leaders can actually be good leaders, only if we give them a reason to lead us in the right direction and not lead us for their own selfish gains.

The problem was not only limited to 17th century England, bad French leadership led to the French revolution which was a battle between the common peasant and the few aristocrats they had. Their was the Spanish revolution and the thing goes on. In conclusion, there is a commitment problem when appointing people to lead over you. This problem is not limited to Africa but past European nations also faced them in the past. These so called incapable leaders can be capable when we the people choose to stand up and make them responsible. It is not a problem of the black man being incapable but a problem of the black man presently being non chalant about their role in the society. When we figure this out (hopefully sooner rather than later), we will be able to turn these incapable leaders into good leaders. If they know they'll be removed and thrown in jail if the mess up, they will definitely listen to the people and do as they please. End of Story!

P.S.: Whatever bad grammar you encounter in this post, swallow it. I have little time for editing.

Interesting points.

But look at the White European jews, after being persecuted by the millions, they setup shop in the heart of the Arab world and created a first world power from nothing.

It didnt take them 400 years

Why are we even discussing this topic? I see the topic as being degrading to every single citizen of Nigeria. No question.

you're right,the topic should be left to die a natural death.

[size=18pt]If we want to survive, we have to develop our indigenous technology, cause is only when we develop our indigenous technology and start exporting, then we can manipulate our economy, cause economy does not work that way you were made to think it does, this is the only way a non white country can make it, for example precious metals are needed in backing up currencies, Europeans don't have a lot of these, then is logical for African currencies to be stronger but that won't be happening, as long as the so called first world controls th economy of the third world nations, the third world currencies started to fail after the downfall of the soviet union which allowed America to set a new world other.[/size]

2007 Election: Senate President Seeks Foreign Support;
for those of u calling for sango's head, it may interest you to read more on the above topic as was reportted by DAILY INDEPENDENT OF TUEDAY 21 NOVEMBER 2006.
that i another way of telling you that they are already there in nigeria and even obj knows that we need them.
if the senate president is calling for the europeans who else can say otherwise.
we need them but the problem i wether they will come and if we will accept their conditions.

To chidichris, Donzman and the rest of you fools in here asking for oyibo to rule u, i pity una, mugus, abi una don f**k oyibo forget unaself, me too dey philadelphia, me too don **k enough oyibo, but God forbid bad thing make i loose my sense of direction,
You all seem to be trapped in the present, look at the history of the world, no empire lasts forever, this too shall pass, believe me if u woke up in 2-300yrs u will see a new world order, i don't know who will be on top but mark my words it wont be as it is now, it is quite shameful that a people do not know their history, who killed patrice lumumba of the congo, who supported apartheid or at least did nothing about it,  when they(South africa) tried to invade Angola, who looked the other way until cuban troops arrived to push the apartheid forces back, There is a saying that goes, keep your friends close and your enemies closer, you have to understand the way of the european or oyibo or whateva, don't be fooled, i tell people here that your ancestors built America and they curse me out, what fools, the British Government could not even fully apologize for slavery because they are afraid of the liability of paying back the wages owed for hundreds of years of free labor, here in America it is calculated that the money owed blacks and their descendants for 400yrs of back wages would run into 10times the current GDP of U.S, trillions of dollars,
Why is this important, well before u move forward u have to know where u come from, i cannot come into your house steal from u and then flaunt that wealth in front of you, and then to make matters worse u conveniently forget that i was an ursuper, common men, lot of pips here no get pride, i walk out and girls of all races are so happy to hear me speak in Nigerian accent and people here are acting like they ashamed to be from naija, una be disgrace, as for naija its time will come, I mean didnt your forfathers live and communicate and farm and trade b.for the so called white men came?, i was born in eastern Nigeria, i didnt just appear there, my dads dad going back generations must have lived and developed their own culture and customs and if u think about it flourished or else they would have perished, its like when u talk to jews they will tell you that before the present world came to be they existed, so they don't care if the world as we know it ends, i.e, if it means fight to the finish and nuclear war with palestinians and arabs, so be it, this is the mentality we should be having, The darker the skin the deeper the roots, we were here first and we will be here, in the last days, peace, all my real niggas, keep balling, all the fake asses that hate themselves, move to russia and get killed by a skinhead, all u asking about numbers and shit, 267-266-0064, U.S.A, peace am out,

paddy_lo

tell those mugus superman don tire

Paddy lo,
i like u at least despite ur abuses, u were able to make some points.
will i be right if i call u a hypocrite? will u be in america and and still tell people back home that nigeria's time will come? how and when is this time u are talking about? who will be responsible for these changes we are all yielling for?
why can't u be there in nigeria and change things or at least u contribute ur own quota? u were born in the eastern pert of nigeria and u consider it wise for ur family to sale off their belongings to make sure u travelled to the us for greener pastures yet u are advising us the mugus to seat back home in nigeria and die waiting for the changes that never come.
americans and europeans are bleeped yet ur nigerian parents were held to ransome to see that u travel or ur make their living a nigthmare.
well, my dear wise man tell that to the hills.
i will be happy with u if u decide to go back to ur root and enjoy the benefits of being a nigerian and not throwing stones from such a distance. ur type will be shouting we no go gree and be running away from the war zone only to decieve embeciles who will die unnecessary death.
when was the last time u went to naija and be frank that u are not nursing the feelings to marry a white lady.
u were parochial in ur judgement of history. u refused to mention the advantages of their coming. you can only compare and contrast to get a justified result.
we are saying here that our so called leaders have made the whole country a horrible place with lack of security for lives and properties, with all the basic infrastructure lacking in the presence of almost all the natural resources.
we are saying that our laeders have decided to channel all our resources to the development of the western worlds instead of developing our countries. we are saying that the same names keep on coming back in our political histories. we are saying that poor gets poorer while the rich gets richer everyday. we are talking about secred cows in our midst. we are condeming the level of sufferings for our students especially in the eastern part of the country who will end up without jobs. we are condeming a society where graduates are gatement while illitrates work in important places. we are agaisnt society were many go to bed hungry while wise men like u in the united states help leaders top smuggle millions out of nigeria into the us.
all we are saying is that the rulling cader have failed us woefully and we need a change no matter where it is coming from.
were u not in america when schwerziniger was choosen as a radical change because the learned men failed in the state and that is exactly what we need.
if u believe that nigeria will just change overnight, my prayer is that u will not continue to be a hypocrite so let the next flight have u so that u will be a party to the sufferings.
please let all who believe in nigeria go back and be part of it.
if u continue to be in the us and singing the praises of our country, then permit me to call u a deciet.

To all of you people that spend your time re-living the slave trade and using any excuse to blame everybody but your own shortcomings for your problems:

STOP LOOKING BACK ,  ONLY LOOK TOWARDS THE FUTURE,

Stop looking for excuses why you do not make something out of your lives and stop blaming history!

You can be someone if you really want to ,  GO FOR IT!

Leave all the bitter people to their miserable fates. You do not have to be one of them!

Reverend:

To all of you people that spend your time re-living the slave trade and using any excuse to blame everybody but your own shortcomings for your problems:

STOP LOOKING BACK , ONLY LOOK TOWARDS THE FUTURE,

Stop looking for excuses why you do not make something out of your lives and stop blaming history!

You can be someone if you really want to , GO FOR IT!

Leave all the bitter people to their miserable fates. You do not have to be one of them!

Excellent point. Preach on, preach on.

yes Reverend
with that woman breast in ur profile i can understand what u meant by bitter ppl! i must say u living well oh yes

sexy church hah

@ Superman

I hope you do not find the female body distasteful? It is one of the most beautiful things to a mans eye and should be worshiped

c uz i love that picture!

In most of the European world, there exist 2 major laws which is used to combat fraudulent activities, and which seem to work reasonably well.

Banking Law
An attempt to deposit any amount over 10,000 GBP (or equivalent) is a reportable item

In Receipt of Stolen Goods
If receive a stolen item, with full knowledge that the item was stolen, then you are as guilty as the person that stole the item


How is it that our leaders can turn up at your local Barclays with hundreds of million of pounds to be deposited, and there is no question asked? It is said that over US$ 1 Trillion as been stolen in this way, since October 1960.

Why are these institutions not been dealt with in the appropriate manner for receiving stolen goods?

These are the good, honest, white folks that you want to save us? I think not!!

menhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh pls telll then ! hope they listenin

Laws such as the one mentioned are only good if they are upheld and enforced.

In Nigeria the very people that should enforce the rules are involved themselves in the crimes

but thats isnt the case now?