oyb:

if as you claim, the Quran was ripped off the bible, why were all those heinous deeds attributed to prophets in your bible omitted - surely including them would have served the purpose of the religion of peace as you like to call it - i mean come on - what would be better than copying the exhortations to kill even the trees  

That is not a logical question at all . . . infact the question is why did the prophets of the bible feel the need to HONESTLY document their good and bad deeds? Why didnt David commission the scribes to scrub out his sins and only put his good deeds?

The way your question is framed gives the quran undeserved legitimacy. The quran has stories of the prophets but pretty much NOTHING on who these prophets were nor do we find their DIRECT MESSAGES FROM ALLAH written there. The quran is 100% the "revelation" from allah to ONE MAN ALONE out of 2500 prophets that islam claims?   Tell that to the marines pls.

oyb:

read Suratul Fatiah

guide us to the right path
the path of those You have favored
and not the path of those who have earned Your anger (the jews)
or those who have gone astray (the christians)


therein lies the answer to your noise - both of you rewrote the scripture - one of you went as far as to turn a Prophet into a diety  

So if an ifa priest writes the same thing we shld automatically admit that the jews strayed? Claiming that christians and jews have gone astray means they were once in the perfect will of allah no? Well WHEN was this allah worship and who led the jews astray? Pls show us documented proof that this allah worship ever took place.

Anyone can write whatever he likes.

the '  spirit ' must be similar to alcohol, which explains the confused misinterpretations of our resident noisemakers

Osisi asked who was the first muslim

we answered her

Adam

because of her cunning attempts to claim that Adam did not practicse Islam,

i have made it clear to her that at that point in time - the five pillars of Islam as it was practised by Prophet Muhammed (SAW)  were not applicable

all one needs to do to see how christians resort to worshipping prophets is check all the threads celebrating Daddy go as a man of God . they practically worship him. for those of us on the right path, it is easy to see how people mythically transit from human to diety.

in the same way, christians were more or less worshipping jim jones .

the jews have clearly earned Allah's anger - interestingly, it is the christians etal who have been the agents of this. pogroms, the holocaust - signs for those who don't have a veil on their hearts

@Osisi

Does Islam predate Judaism and Christianity?

Yes

Islam started with Adam and Muhammed happened to be the first to be a Muslim among his people who were idolators hence:

Quran 39 v 11-12: Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims.

Quran 6 v 14: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters.

Islam then was not preached as it is now. Then, there was no five compulsory daily prayers but was perfected during prophet's night journey to heaven:

Quran 5 v 3 …This day! I have perfected your religion, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

Quran 22 v 78: …It is he who named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran), that the Messenger (Muhammed saw) may be a witness over you and you be witness over mankind.

Verses showing that those before Muhammed are Muslims:

Quran 3 v 67: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim , and he was not one of the polytheists.

Quran 2v 127-133 ShakirAnd when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing: Our Lord! and make us both submissive (muslimayni) to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting (ommatan muslimatan) to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous. When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds. And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims . Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit.

Also during Jesus' time:
Quran 3v 52: When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.



Osisi, please can God be an author of confusion?
Did God give prophets different religions?

Try to respond please and we work this out.

oyb:

the '  spirit ' must be similar to alcohol, which explains the confused misinterpretations of our resident noisemakers

Osisi asked who was the first muslim

we answered her

Adam

because of her cunning attempts to claim that Adam did not practicse Islam,

i have made it clear to her that at that point in time - the five pillars of Islam as it was practised by Prophet Muhammed (SAW)  were not applicable

your answer is bogus . . . infact it is a disgraceful lie. Osisi isnt making any cunning attempts to prove Adam didnt practice islam, THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HE EVER DID. Either in the bible, ancient historical records (read the works of Josephus and others) or in the quran. The fact that mohammad made such a bogus claim without proof shld be the cunning attempt!

You havent made anything clear . . . the 5 pillars of islam became applicable when mohammad came on the scene so what pillars where applicable during Adam's time?

the bible talks about God coming down in the cool of the evening to SPEAK face to face with Adam . . . allah does not! Infact scholars claim allah can NEVER be seen even in jaanat so how come? Did allah change his behaviour AFTER he left the jews?

Why did Adam's children NEVER continue this allah worship?

@$Osisi: « #56 on: Today at 07:49:25 PM »  

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 07:36:13 PM
@$Osisi: « #43 on: Today at 07:15:27 PM »   Yes. .

Yes, yes and yes! And He is Allah, and not the lower case. If anyone worships the Creator in the directives giving by the prophet (as) whose prophetic time they lived/live in, that is Islam and it is the worship of Allah.

I almost missed that part.
I thought I got my answer
so the Islam practiced by Abraham and Jacob  (by your claim) is different from the Islam of Mohammed since it differs according to dispensation
am I correct?

Incorrect! Read from Surah Mariam what Yahya was given. And read what Isa bin Mariam told people in defense of his mother! I am a prophet of Allah, given book. I am commanded to make prayer, make zakat, fast, etc, and am commanded to be kind to my mother, etc.

oyb:

all one needs to do to see how christians resort to worshipping prophets is check all the threads celebrating Daddy go as a man of God . they practically worship him. for those of us on the right path, it is easy to see how people mythically transit from human to diety.

Christians are the most vociferous at calling out those who worship man. We dont need allah to tell us.

oyb:

the jews have clearly earned Allah's anger - interestingly, it is the christians etal who have been the agents of this. pogroms, the holocaust - signs for those who don't have a veil on their hearts

when did they earn this anger and why?

babs787:

@Osisi

Yes

Islam started with Adam and Muhammed happened to be the first to be a Muslim among his people who were idolators hence:

Quran 39 v 11-12: Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims.

Quran 6 v 14: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters.

Islam then was not preached as it is now. Then, there was no five compulsory daily prayers but was perfected during prophet's night journey to heaven:

Quran 5 v 3 …This day! I have perfected your religion, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

Quran 22 v 78: …It is he who named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran), that the Messenger (Muhammed saw) may be a witness over you and you be witness over mankind.

Verses showing that those before Muhammed are Muslims:

Quran 3 v 67: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim , and he was not one of the polytheists.

Quran 2v 127-133 ShakirAnd when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing: Our Lord! and make us both submissive (muslimayni) to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting (ommatan muslimatan) to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous. When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds. And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims . Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit.

Also during Jesus' time:
Quran 3v 52: When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.



Osisi, please can God be an author of confusion?
Did God give prophets different religions?

Try to respond please and we work this out.

these verses are completely irrelevant. The earliest of them was written 2000 yrs AFTER the death of Adam.
I can equally post verses from the bible showing that the biblical prophets worshipped the God of the bible and knew nothing of any allah.

olabowale:

@$Osisi: « #46 on: Today at 07:24:50 PM »   Give me a single grave of a Christian prophet that Prophet Muhammad (AS) referred to? THis is your assignment!

shouldn't you be asking Mohammed that question?
He made that claim  not I.Ask him which prophets and which graves he was referring to.

To help you undertand the above ahadith; the children of Israel ave 12 nations, and n their own, they phaed out 11 and their original name, Children of Israel for the more simple Jew as the new name. All the prophets that came after Jacob, Isarel except Muhammad (A_ came from the 12 branches of his sons. For example Moses and his brother Aaron, were Levite! Yet Jesus was not. Joseph being the first prophet from the Children of Israel, while Jesus was the last of them. Now, if Jesus was not a christian prophet except you call him one. He neither started a religion nor did he advocate for a shear from what he, Zakarayyah and John observed

!

How many sides of the mouth do you speak from?
You told us Jews had no prophets then all of a sudden all of the prophets after Jacob  except Mohammed were Jews yet
Jesus was the last (according to you) from the children of Israel  AKA Jew yet he also was a Muslim
please make up your minds

If it was a Jewish religion that he practiced, like tht of the present Jews of today, or Christianity like that which you practice today, or a form of Judaism that the defiants were practicing as he was preaching, he would not have told them about a specific path: Hear,Oh Israel, your Lord and my Lord is but One God! His admotion about them not cancelling out the prophets of old and their laws are clear indications that he saw what they were practicing at that time different from what the past prophets practiced. He admonished them to return to the ways of the old prophets, which he himself was on, as well. Finally, he worship by cleansing himself properly and them bowing his face in the garden of geshemane (salah), and cried making petition (dua, dhikr) to his Lord God; Eloi (Allah)!

This one is bull
when did you start believing Jesus and his words.
He also said in the same Bible that he is the way the truth and the life and that you must believe on him to be saved,did you miss that part ?

$

Osisi, what are you talking about? Take of the scrub and attend to serioud matter. Commot.

so Adam was a musulumi? such a theory. i had thot Prop Mo was the first musulumi?

babs787:

Osisi, please can God be an author of confusion?
Did God give prophets different religions?

Try to respond please and we work this out.

infact you nailed the coffin of islam with these very words.

Have you ever wondered why allah's claims and REAL FACTS are poles apart? Why is it hard to find a biblical prophet who was worshipping allah both in documented history? And what were the ishmaelites doing all these while? worshipping idols while allah was busy fussing over the jews? The very people he claims to have turned to apes and pigs?

Why did "allah" make elijah anoint people with oil and suddenly stop later?
why did "allah" let Abraham set up altars in Bethel and stop using it today?

Why does allah have not a single direct revelation to these prophets in his quran?

*Hauwa*:

so Adam was a musulumi? such a theory. i had thot Prop Mo was the first musulumi?

Don't mind them.

This is the Koran.

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall


Now who again is the first Muslim?

davidylan:

infact you nailed the coffin of islam with these very words.
Have you ever wondered why allah's claims and REAL FACTS are poles apart? Why is it hard to find a biblical prophet who was worshipping allah both in documented history? And what were the ishmaelites doing all these while? worshipping idols while allah was busy fussing over the jews? The very people he claims to have turned to apes and pigs?

Why did "allah" make elijah anoint people with oil and suddenly stop later?
why did "allah" let Abraham set up altars in Bethel and stop using it today?

Why does allah have not a single direct revelation to these prophets in his quran?

Gbam!
where in the Koran did these "prophets" build altars unto their God
They had a God they called Jehovah
is Jehovah allah?
How about the specifications to building the ark of covenant,.what had allah to say?
Did he give the 10 commandments to Moses.
Abraham was called the friend of God,is he also the friend of allah?

$osisi:

Don't mind them.

This is the Koran.

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall


Now who again is the first Muslim?

Maybe we shld ask babs if allah is still the author of confusion.

@Davidylan: Lack of ability to process what is said is a terrible thing. Ibrahim says, I am the first Muslim (In my generation).

Go to Surah Araf (the Height). You will see Musa saying I am the first Mumin (believer; another word for Muslim), to mean in his generation. Afterall, these noble men were prophets, sent to their people.

Can we say based on what Musa said, above in Araf that there were no Muslim, or Muminu before him? Afterall, Ibrahim was long time before him. Ibrahim wa a mumin, a Friend of Allah.

Read things properly.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Lack of ability to process what is said is a terrible thing. Ibrahim says, I am the first Muslim (In my generation).

Go to Surah Araf (the Height). You will see Musa saying I am the first Mumin (believer; another word for Muslim), to mean in his generation. Afterall, these noble men were prophets, sent to their people.

Can we say based on what Musa said, above in Araf that there were no Muslim, or Muminu before him? Afterall, Ibrahim was long time before him. Ibrahim wa a mumin, a Friend of Allah.

Read things properly.

where EXACTLY in the koran did they add "in my generation"?

where was adam's mosque? why does non of the prophets have a book in allah's koran? why did allah change his mind on anointing oil?

@Noetic: I will come for you. So relax.

@Daviylan:

infact you nailed the coffin of islam with these very words.

Have you ever wondered why allah's claims and REAL FACTS are poles apart? Why is it hard to find a biblical prophet who was worshipping allah both in documented history?

Isa bin Mariam is a very direct example of such a prophet. Afterall, we read that he prayed by bowing his face to the ground of the garden of geshemane. He prayed, night and very early morning! Dont tell me that you think that he prayed and supplicated and made his petitions without up properly? He did use water after he relieved himself, you know! Read your bible, againfor how he prayed at the garden.

And what were the ishmaelites doing all these while? worshipping idols while allah was busy fussing over the jews? The very people he claims to have turned to apes and pigs?

And indeed when it was time, Allah turned to the Ismailites to finishe what he promised Ibrahim that He will complete on his decendants by using Muhammad (AS) for it. Allah turned people in a fishing village to ape and pigs based on their evilness. Just like Allah turned water to blood in evil Egypt! Allah is consistent. His way is perfect and unchanging. When you understand that, then Ilam will come to you. You will see that after He had given the Children of Israel an inexhautible chances, He turned to the other branch of the tree of the house of Ibrahim AS) to complete Islam!

Why did "allah" make elijah anoint people with oil and suddenly stop later?
why did "allah" let Abraham set up altars in Bethel and stop using it today?

Why does allah have not a single direct revelation to these prophets in his quran?

I use perfume/ sweet smelly oil to ruob my face, my hands, my knees, my feet, and other parts of my body, when am ready to pray. What alter means is not clear to me. You sound like a pagan worshiper. But will Kaaba do, since Ibrahim rebuilt his tructure, after the Noah's flood. Thi tructure is declared the frst structure that is called the HOUSE OF ALLAH!

Where is Bethel, David? Could it have been Bakka? See how similar they sound? Get it in Aramaic of yric, and they will be very close, unlike your english bethel pronounciation!

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Lack of ability to process what is said is a terrible thing. Ibrahim says, I am the first Muslim (In my generation).

Go to Surah Araf (the Height). You will see Musa saying I am the first Mumin (believer; another word for Muslim), to mean in his generation. Afterall, these noble men were prophets, sent to their people.

Can we say based on what Musa said, above in Araf that there were no Muslim, or Muminu before him? Afterall, Ibrahim was long time before him. Ibrahim wa a mumin, a Friend of Allah.

Read things properly.

this again is rubbish. With all due respect . . . neither Abraham nor Moses SAID anything of the sort. That was what mohammad CLAIMED THEY SAID BY REVELATION about 2000 yrs AFTER these men had died!

The followers of Moses recorded every minute detail of his laws . . . certainly they would have recorded him saying stuff about allah or islam. Why is such a claim only found in the quran and no where else?

@$Osisi:

Gbam!
where in the Koran did these "prophets" build altars unto their God

Ibrahim (re)built the Kaaba  with son Ismail! That solves your problem abot altars. While the oters perished what Ibrahim built is there in Makka, een till this very moment!

They had a God they called Jehovah
is Jehovah allah?

They had a God called Chineke, or Chukwu in Igbo language. They had a God called Obanjigi in Hausa language. You still need more proofs?

How about the specifications to building the ark of covenant,.what had allah to say?

Where is the ark of Covenant, today? No where to be found! We see Masjid Haram, specifically Kaaba! This should tell you something! Allah let what He Will be forgotten and preserve what He wills. Allah says that He abrogates a thing and repaces it with an equal thing or a better thing! I gues the Kaaba is standing tall. And while the Bible is being corrupted, the Quran sands guarded.

Did he give the 10 commandments to Moses.

He gave the Commandment o Musa. $Osisi, I thought you this young girl came prepared?

Abraham was called the friend of God,is he also the friend of allah? /quote] Ibrahima Kalillah. This means Ibrahima My personal Friend! When youread the Quran, get back to me!

olabowale:

@$Osisi: Ibrahim (re)built the Kaaba  with son Ismail! That solves your problem abot altars. While the oters perished what Ibrahim built is there in Makka, een till this very moment!

No that doesnt. The kaaba and the altars of Israel are not similar . . . the kaaba is not an altar for a burnt offering sacrifice to the Lord like the altars Abraham built were. to deceitfully attempt to link them both is islamic falsehood at its very worst.

Besides the nonsense about Ibrahim building the kaaba is just false. Besides the words of mohammad there is no other proof that Ibrahim built such a thing. Prior to Mohammad's birth the arabs didnt even know who Ibrahim was or whether he built the kaaba or not.

olabowale:

They had a God called Chineke, or Chukwu in Igbo language. They had a God called Obanjigi in Hausa language. You still need more proofs?

We've been through this charade once too many times. Allah = Al + Ilah = The god.
The arabic word for God is ILAH not Allah! Ordinary wikipedia sets this straight.

olabowale:

Where is the ark of Covenant, today? No where to be found! We see Masjid Haram, specifically Kaaba! This should tell you something! Allah let what He Will be forgotten and preserve what He wills. Allah says that He abrogates a thing and repaces it with an equal thing or a better thing! I gues the Kaaba is standing tall. And while the Bible is being corrupted, the Quran sands guarded.

Oh dear . . . back to the usual meaningless rigmarole and falsehood again? Again you equate the ark of the covenant with the kaaba again? Didnt you tell us that it was equivalent to the altar? Do you know the difference between an altar and the ark of the covenant?

While the kaaba is a stationary useless stone, the ark was a mobile symbol of the very presence of God Himself. After the death and resurrection of Christ, God came down in the form of the holy Spirit hence abolishing the very need for an ark again . . .

Allah lets anything that will expose his lies to be "forgotten".

olabowale:

He gave the Commandment o Musa. $Osisi, I thought you this young girl came prepared?

And where are they today? why are they all missing from the quran? allah let that be forgotten too?

@Noetic: « #79 on: Today at 09:15:17 PM »  

where EXACTLY in the koran did they add "in my generation"?

I know that you cant get it. But wait, if it is not in "your generation" why would you abandone Moses prophetic success and period and follow Jesus, as you claim? Afterall, even Jesus warned you not to abandone the propheta and books and law of those prophets before him! But did he tell his generation not to follw hi, or not? Your answer here will give you the answer to the 'in my generation' that you asked me. By the way, when did the prophetic period of Moe end for the sake of argument and that of Jesus began? Do you then think that Jesus prophetic period will not end when he promised that another Comforter will come to tell you all things?

Your inquiry shoul start with who was the former Comforter, so that the another Comforter will make sense to you?

where was adam's mosque? why does non of the prophets have a book in allah's koran? why did allah change his mind on anointing oil?

Arafah is a word meaning "we see each other". It stands for the place where Adam and hi wife Hawa met. Arafat is in Makka. Kaaba was a place they built for the worship of Allah. Surah "Ala" ends with the Suhufi Ibrahima wa Musaa. This means the pamphlets given Ibrahim and the one given to Musa. And I had already addressed theoil thing with Davidylan, above.

olabowale:

Arafah is a word meaning "we see each other". It stands for the place where Adam and hi wife Hawa met. Arafat is in Makka. Kaaba was a place they built for the worship of Allah. Surah "Ala" ends with the Suhufi Ibrahima wa Musaa. This means the pamphlets given Ibrahim and the one given to Musa. And I had already addressed theoil thing with Davidylan, above.

where is the historical proof for the above lies? 

when will muslims stop telling horrible lies?

and pls where did you address the issue of the anointing oil?

olabowale:

@Daviylan: Isa bin Mariam is a very direct example of such a prophet. Afterall, we read that he prayed by bowing his face to the ground of the garden of geshemane. He prayed, night and very early morning! Dont tell me that you think that he prayed and supplicated and made his petitions without up properly? He did use water after he relieved himself, you know! Read your bible, againfor how he prayed at the garden.

You read all that in the bible . . . why is it absent from the quran? didnt the quran say the bible was corrupt? So based on that we cannot take your false analogy . . . pls give us another preferably from the quran.

olabowale:

And indeed when it was time, Allah turned to the Ismailites to finishe what he promised Ibrahim that He will complete on his decendants by using Muhammad (AS) for it. Allah turned people in a fishing village to ape and pigs based on their evilness. Just like Allah turned water to blood in evil Egypt! Allah is consistent. His way is perfect and unchanging. When you understand that, then Ilam will come to you. You will see that after He had given the Children of Israel an inexhautible chances, He turned to the other branch of the tree of the house of Ibrahim AS) to complete Islam!

when did allah make this promise? why is allah's alleged promise to abraham only found in the bible?

Horrible liars.

olabowale:

I use perfume/ sweet smelly oil to ruob my face, my hands, my knees, my feet, and other parts of my body, when am ready to pray. What alter means is not clear to me. You sound like a pagan worshiper. But will Kaaba do, since Ibrahim rebuilt his tructure, after the Noah's flood. Thi tructure is declared the frst structure that is called the HOUSE OF ALLAH!

Do you know what the anointing oil stands for? No it wasnt used as a face cream.

olabowale:

Where is Bethel, David? Could it have been Bakka? See how similar they sound? Get it in Aramaic of yric, and they will be very close, unlike your english bethel pronounciation!

what a disgusting liar. Bethel was a biblical city and has been archeologically identified around the present town of Beiten in the West Bank . . . 10 miles north of Jerusalem.

Bakka indeed . . .

@Davidylan: « #83 on: Today at 10:05:36 PM »  

No that doesnt. The kaaba and the altars of Israel are not similar . . . the kaaba is not an altar for a burnt offering sacrifice to the Lord like the altars Abraham built were. to deceitfully attempt to link them both is islamic falsehood at its very worst.

While the Muslims observe the traditions of Ibrahim on prayer, Zakah, Fast, and hajj and slaughter (hadiyah) on the day after hajj, the Jews and Christiands do not. Now tell me, from your own argument, your Biblical God accepts animals from Ibrahim and then the Jews, but then the same Jews became Christians and its human sacrifice that the same God of the Bible now wants? Did you then look at the ease of Ilam, when there is no need for either in order to receive Mercy or Supplicates?

By the way it is the acts of the obedience of Ibrahim and his son Ismail that makes Muslims slaughter during hajj! What happened to your claims of following Abraham? Did the Biblical God change His mind? Be serious man.

Besides the nonsense about Ibrahim building the kaaba is just false. Besides the words of mohammad there is no other proof that Ibrahim built such a thing. Prior to Mohammad's birth the arabs didnt even know who Ibrahim was or whether he built the kaaba or not.

And the Arabs practiced male circumcisions. Who does it again and why do the arabs do it it, starting from Ismaila's time, and he making sure his children observed it, and passed it on till today?

When my boys were born, I made sure that they wereimmediately circumcised, not because of my yorubaness, but primarily because of my Islam!

olabowale:

@Davidylan: « #83 on: Today at 10:05:36 PM »   While the Muslims observe the traditions of Ibrahim on prayer, Zakah, Fast, and hajj and slaughter (hadiyah) on the day after hajj, the Jews and Christiands do not.

No where in the bible are we told Abraham fasted or instituted a fast. where did you find that?
where did Abraham go do his hajj? Mexico?
The slaughter was not a rite instituted by Abraham, it was God's test of his faith period.

olabowale:

Now tell me, from your own argument, your Biblical God accepts animals from Ibrahim and then the Jews, but then the same Jews became Christians and its human sacrifice that the same God of the Bible now wants? Did you then look at the ease of Ilam, when there is no need for either in order to receive Mercy or Supplicates?

There is no mercy in islam pls stop decieving urself.

olabowale:

By the way it is the acts of the obedience of Ibrahim and his son Ismail that makes Muslims slaughter during hajj! What happened to your claims of following Abraham? Did the Biblical God change His mind? Be serious man.

Neither do we have any record of the jews following the hajj or the slaughter of Isaac. It wasnt part of their laws. mohammad just stole that.

olabowale:

And the Arabs practiced male circumcisions. Who does it again and why do the arabs do it it, starting from Ismaila's time, and he making sure his children observed it, and passed it on till today?

When my boys were born, I made sure that they wereimmediately circumcised, not because of my yorubaness, but primarily because of my Islam!

Ijebus also practice male circumcision so do igbos . . . are they all jews?

you sir are a disgrace.

I heard olabowole mention prophet yahaya
who the fried fish is yahaya?

@Davidylan: « #64 on: Today at 08:01:59 PM »  

Quote from: oyb on Today at 07:56:57 PM
if as you claim, the Quran was ripped off the bible, why were all those heinous deeds attributed to prophets in your bible omitted - surely including them would have served the purpose of the religion of peace as you like to call it - i mean come on - what would be better than copying the exhortations to kill even the trees  


That is not a logical question at all . . . infact the question is why did the prophets of the bible feel the need to HONESTLY document their good and bad deeds? Why didnt David commission the scribes to scrub out his sins and only put his good deeds?

Open the lab window for the toxins to go somewhere else instead of your nose! On one hand, you said the prophets write everything down, both good and bad deeds they commit. On the other hand you said David ommissioned the scribes to only mentioned his good deeds. Then you have the gul to argue with Oyb about the Quran copying from the Bible? If the Quran did such a thing, wouldnt have been better that it only write the bad deeds of the old prophets, the Biblical prophets a you like to call them, so that Quran, indeed Islam and Muhammad (AS) can actually be the undisputable truth? Yet we do not see a single place the Quran talks any ill about a single prophet (AS). Instead it honors them, getting them from the  clutches of filth that you associate each or all with! Make up your mind, David!

The way your question is framed gives the quran undeserved legitimacy. The quran has stories of the prophets but pretty much NOTHING on who these prophets were nor do we find their DIRECT MESSAGES FROM ALLAH written there. The quran is 100% the "revelation" from allah to ONE MAN ALONE out of 2500 prophets that islam claims?   Tell that to the marines pls.

You are in the army now, then Soldier! I dont think David realise that Adam was treated as the first to sin and then seeked forgiveness. Ibrahim was said to have destroyed the idols of his people and left the biggest one with ax around his neck. And the ensuing story that folowed until he left his people. He attempted to slaughter his only son, Ismail and the Muslims observe that tradition till this day during Hajj. I wonder which wife you can snatchher son for slaughter; the boss lady who asked you to get rid of your first child or the younger wife who you actually threw out and yet did not curse you?

$osisi:

I heard olabowole mention prophet yahaya
who the fried fish is yahaya?

john the baptist.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: « #64 on: Today at 08:01:59 PM »   Open the lab window for the toxins to go somewhere else instead of your nose! On one hand, you said the prophets write everything down, both good and bad deeds they commit. On the other hand you said David ommissioned the scribes to only mentioned his good deeds. Then you have the gul to argue with Oyb about the Quran copying from the Bible? If the Quran did such a thing, wouldnt have been better that it only write the bad deeds of the old prophets, the Biblical prophets a you like to call them, so that Quran, indeed Islam and Muhammad (AS) can actually be the undisputable truth? Yet we do not see a single place the Quran talks any ill about a single prophet (AS). Instead it honors them, getting them from the  clutches of filth that you associate each or all with! Make up your mind, David!

you're lying again . . . shamelessly if i may add. This was what i said and i quote verbatim - Why didnt David commission the scribes to scrub out his sins and only put his good deeds?

the quran couldnt just copy the bad deeds of the biblical prophets . . . it needed those men to lend itself some legitimacy. It wouldnt have made sense to write only the bad deeds of David if you needed to co-opt him as allah's prophet no?

olabowale:

You are in the army now, then Soldier! I dont think David realise that Adam was treated as the first to sin and then seeked forgiveness. Ibrahim was said to have destroyed the idols of his people and left the biggest one with ax around his neck. And the ensuing story that folowed until he left his people. He attempted to slaughter his only son, Ismail and the Muslims observe that tradition till this day during Hajj. I wonder which wife you can snatchher son for slaughter; the boss lady who asked you to get rid of your first child or the younger wife who you actually threw out and yet did not curse you?

the portion in blue is ONLY FOUND in the bible. Where is the story in the quran? Stop stealing the bible pls.

The portion in red is PLAINLY FALSE for the two reasons below:

1. the bible CLEARLY makes certain that the son Abraham was to sacrifice was Isaac not ishmael.

2. the quran does not ONCE mention ishmael as the son for the sacrifice.

Again sir, stop lying for allah.

@Davidylan:

So if an ifa priest writes the same thing we shld automatically admit that the jews strayed? Claiming that christians and jews have gone astray means they were once in the perfect will of allah no?

Arent you astray from the "Commandment of Jesus? Was it not that the Jews went astray that Jesus was telling them what he told them to go back to the ways of the old prophets? Wa here a lace hat Jeus told you to sing hymns, play drums, etc?

Wan'tWell WHEN was this allah worship and who led the jews astray?

For starter Pharisees and the scribes. No? I think David may go againt Jesus here and sie with somebody else.

Pls show us documented proof that this allah worship ever took place.

Even Jesus said Elo, not Jehovah or yahweh or Aba! Think about it, David.

Anyone can write whatever he likes.what

And Paul went on rampage with it!

davidylan:

john the baptist.

What is John the baptist doing in the Koran
who did he baptize and for what purpose?

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Arent you astray from the "Commandment of Jesus? Was it not that the Jews went astray that Jesus was telling them what he told them to go back to the ways of the old prophets? Wa here a lace hat Jeus told you to sing hymns, play drums, etc?

I already asked you when you started heeding the words of Jesus?
He says he is the truth and the life
He calls himself the bread of life
He calls himself the son of God
It's either you believe what he says or you don't believe him at all

Please tell us who prophet yahaya was baptizing in the Koran