am on line

You see, i was fast enough to read your refusal letter before you withdrew it, and i'm hereby going to give your my own advice. In consideration of the presentation of your application documents, i'm afraid that you don't stand a good chance in your appeal, the ECO obviously have many clean reasons to refuse your application. I advice you not to appeal such case, instead, re-apply and rectify the errors you made, use only original doccements (no photocopy), it's better not to apply at all than to use photocopy documents[color=#006600][/color]


But my sponsor says he cannot give out his original and dat is why i have decided to appeal

Let that application go, get the originals of the documents in question and apply again: there's no way you can win an appeal of a visa application that was refused based on the fact that you didn't present the original document. So, do not waste your seven months in appeal.
And if you must appeal, do you now have the originals documents bearing same names as the ones you used in application?

ufuoslee:

But my sponsor says he cannot give out his original and that is why i have decided to appeal

Then, he's not your sponsor, this is how the embassy will see it. A real sponsor would do anything to make his dependant's visa application a success; if really he won't give you the original documents, then, how would the ECO be convinced that he'll take care of you once in the UK?
Either he gives you the original documents or he gets himself off it, no be to carry pikin for back, and he leg dey drag for ground. Either you carry am, or you leave am make he waka. By the way, what would he loss if he gives you the documents for the visa? Nothing, they won't take anything from him.

hello pips i was refused a student visa the second time on july 31st but i have appealed the eco's decision,the reason he gave was that he did not see tax on my dads savings account when they compared it to another one in view of that he add a little weight to my application since i said i will fund my education and living expenses from my dads account

secondly he said i did not indicate anywhere in my application that i have been refused earlier.he now said if i could provide documents that addresses the reasons for refusal that it may be possible to resolve the problem without an appeal hearing.


My Grounds of Appeal are;

I write to acknowledge the refusal of my application for student visa to the UK. I have equally taken steps here to address the two objections against my successful application as suggested by the Entry clearance Officer. My defenses against the two grounds for objections are discussed below.

My parents have taken up the reasons you gave against my financial document from the Bank. The Bank has replied accordingly. As you will know the criteria used to assess the document is beyond my control. Please see the letter attached.


Secondly, the Clearance Officer claimed that I did not indicate in my last application that I have been refused visa previously. I found this to be very disturbing. This is because I clearly indicated in the application form that I was refused visa in the previous application. The reason I gave was that the statement of account was not clearly established as I am likely to be a burden to my Uncle. Please cross check the application form again. Apart from that I clearly gave the reference number of application to the same effect. I have no reason to withdraw this vital information knowing fully well that I do not have any other business to do in the United Kingdom than to study. The recent application was made using the same passport so I do not have any intention whatsoever not to be credible in the information I submitted to the Embassy for my visa application.



pips pls comment on this

Vicjustice:

Then, he's not your sponsor, this is how the embassy will see it. A real sponsor would do anything to make his dependant's visa application a success; if really he won't give you the original documents, then, how would the ECO be convinced that he'll take care of you once in the UK?
Either he gives you the original documents or he gets himself off it, no be to carry pikin for back, and he leg dey drag for ground. Either you carry am, or you leave am make he waka. By the way, what would he loss if he gives you the documents for the visa? Nothing, they won't take anything from him.

Dont be too hasty to draw out your conclusions just like that. Cases abound of loss of vital documents all in the name of Visa application. Some get lost in transits and it may never be found again. The sponsor will have his/her reasons for not wanting to release such documents as this point in time. This case is appealable.

ufuoslee:

But my sponsor says he cannot give out his original and that is why i have decided to appeal

I wish you could put the refusal notice here for us to read and then a tangible advice could be given. However, is your sponsor in the UK willing to make himself/herself at AIT on the day of hearing in respect to your case?

If the answer is affirmative, I will suggest you carry on with the appeal.

If the answer to the question is negative, I will suggest you get a better sponsor who will release original documents for your application.

There are cases of people whose sponsors sent only photocopies of documents and yet they were given their visas.
Good luck.

@ tosin_tp,
I wish I could help out with the appeal format of yours, but my hands are quite tight at the moment, and in the followin weeks, I dont even think sitting down with the computer on nairaland may be too feasible for me. You would really have to re-draft that appeal of yours.

Also I will suggest you write a letter of reconsideration as to your case if given the fact all you stated was the truth, it is possible the ECO was sleeping while assessing your application and definitely no ECM bothered to look over the decision of the ECO.

Also alongside with the reconsideration, you will send your appeal to loughborough in the UK. If you dont fully understand what the letter of reconsideration is about, there is a page that addresses such. Please take time to find it out. It is in on of the pages though.

If you are still in worry as to what to do, please make known your fears. I am sure someone will be able to give the needed advice as to it.

Good luck.

@ mrpataki

Thk you very much bro

Thanks mr partaki i submitted that to the deputy british high commission because he said he will review whatever document i have that addresses the reason with my grounds of appeal but i think he later forwaded it to the tribunal in UK anyways an acknowledgement of my appeal has been sent to me and the tribunal gave him till yesterday THE 25TH of september to forward the bundle so what i am expecting now is the hearing date,i just want to know if my grounds makes sense and what i pasted is the truth.Thanks

mrpataki:

@ tosin_tp,
I wish I could help out with the appeal format of yours, but my hands are quite tight at the moment, and in the followin weeks, I don't even think sitting down with the computer on nairaland may be too feasible for me. You would really have to re-draft that appeal of yours.

Also I will suggest you write a letter of reconsideration as to your case if given the fact all you stated was the truth, it is possible the ECO was sleeping while assessing your application and definitely no ECM bothered to look over the decision of the ECO.

Also alongside with the reconsideration, you will send your appeal to loughborough in the UK. If you don't fully understand what the letter of reconsideration is about, there is a page that addresses such. Please take time to find it out. It is in on of the pages though.

If you are still in worry as to what to do, please make known your fears. I am sure someone will be able to give the needed advice as to it.

Good luck.

tosin_tp:

Thanks mr partaki i submitted that to the deputy british high commission because he said he will review whatever document i have that addresses the reason with my grounds of appeal but i think he later forwaded it to the tribunal in UK anyways an acknowledgement of my appeal has been sent to me and the tribunal gave him till yesterday THE 25TH of september to forward the bundle so what i am expecting now is the hearing date,i just want to know if my grounds makes sense and what i pasted is the truth.Thanks

@tosin_tp

i have been following your case even though this is my first post on it.

the ECO is crazy. absolutely crazy and lazy. I do not see any reason why your case should go to appeal. i see no reason at all. anyway, just keep praying and hoping for the best.

did you attach the letter from your the bank confirming the account and VAT status and another letter from your father confirming that the funds are available for you?

hi funkybaby thanks for your concern yes i attached the bank letter to that effect he did not make complain wether the funds were available or not so i only took time to address the two issues he raised,thanks i was hoping you will comment on my post having read the advices you have been giving people and thank God you did.I will be hoping and praying

mrpataki:

I wish you could put the refusal notice here for us to read and then a tangible advice could be given. However, is your sponsor in the UK willing to make himself/herself at AIT on the day of hearing in respect to your case?

If the answer is affirmative, I will suggest you carry on with the appeal.

If the answer to the question is negative, I will suggest you get a better sponsor who will release original documents for your application.

There are cases of people whose sponsors sent only photocopies of documents and yet they were given their visas.
Good luck.

@Mrpataki, at first i wasn't impressed at your initial post when you encourage Ufuoslee to go ahead and appeal a case of which she apparently has no original documents to fight with, but your later post convinced me that you know what you're doing (see the Green highlight).
I adviced her to let it go for three reasons:
(1) On the understanding that her sponsor is not willing to give her the much needed original documents to support her appeal, so in that case, she absolutely stands no chance.
(2) In consideration of the time she would spend in waiting for an appeal case of which she's not certain of the result, seven months is too long a time to be wasted.
(3) If the sponsor in question would be willing to produce the original document during the hearing of the appeal, why won't he do the same for a fresh application that would last within twenty days?
Honestly, i never advice anyone to appeal a visa refusal, the best bet it to rectify the reason(s) for refusal and apply afresh. This method has proved to pay more that appeal.

Vicjustice:

@Mrpataki, at first i wasn't impressed at your initial post when you encourage Ufuoslee to go ahead and appeal a case of which she apparently has no original documents to fight with, but your later post convinced me that you know what you're doing (see the Green highlight).
I adviced her to let it go for three reasons:
(1) On the understanding that her sponsor is not willing to give her the much needed original documents to support her appeal, so in that case, she absolutely stands no chance.
(2) In consideration of the time she would spend in waiting for an appeal case of which she's not certain of the result, seven months is too long a time to be wasted.
(3) If the sponsor in question would be willing to produce the original document during the hearing of the appeal, why won't he do the same for a fresh application that would last within twenty days? Honestly, i never advice anyone to appeal a visa refusal, the best bet it to rectify the reason(s) for refusal and apply afresh. This method has proved to pay more that appeal.

@vicjustice

i beg to disagree.

some sponsors are like that. its not like they do not have the interest of their ward at heart. most times its out of ignorance.

a personal exampls is my sister's case, my uncle did not give her the copy of his house deeds in UK. but on the day of the hearing , he brought every single paper to the court and it was for this singular action that she won the case. i can't really blame him for not giving my sister the house deeds- previous family members had been given visas through letter of invitations from him and none of them presented his property deeds.

these days, its MOST advisable to appeal. your chances are higher. ECOs these days are extremely lazy. all they do is 'copy and paste' refusal letters. the judges at AIT have more patience in dealing with visa cases than they do. You can apply a million times and still get refused. Infact, one refusal is even enough reason for the ECOs to keep denying you. They will always come up with something.

@ufouslee
i agree with mrpataki. if your sponsor will agree to represent you at AIT, then go ahead with the appeal. common sense will tell him to go there with all neccesary document that will support your application. just get him to agree to go there. the rest is small.

seven months appeal can sound like a long long time. but never mind, time flies. hav'nt you ever heard that ''best things come to those who wait''

i will rather pay 12k (in visa application fees) to BDHC, get refused, appeal, wait 7months and get my visa, than pay BHC 12K, get refused, pay another 12k, get refused and pay another 12k and get refused again and get the passport decortaed with refusal stamps. believe, there are some people like that that are paying 'ajo' to BHC. No join them o!

i am a big advocate of the visa appeal process. it works and best of all, it costs you little or nothing!!!

ufuoslee:


But my sponsor says he cannot give out his original and that is why i have decided to appeal

@Ufuoslee
I happened to have seen the scanned copy of the appeal you temporarily posted online as well. My initial thinking was that the content could have been typed verbatim (and removing personal information disclosed in the posted scanned copy) and posted into your reply here in about the same time it would have taken you to scan, save a jpg copy and post on the thread. From my very limited knowledge of immigration matters, most especially on appeal issues (which i dv don't proclaim any expertise on but i'm learning from the guys in the hosue), my line of thinking on reading the refusal notice was that you'd stand little chance of winning an appeal (this is drawn from the very detailed response given by the eco on the refusal notice, you were using 2 sponsors and had no original document from any of them) and would be better of reapplying and correcting the issues raised in the refusal letter.

The line below is taken from the vfs website link: http://www.ukvac-ng.com/required.aspx

Will you accept photocopies of documents?
Where possible, please send original documents. We see a lot of forged documents, and it is easier for us to confirm that an original document is genuine, rather than a photocopied one. We can examine original documents to make sure that they have not been tampered with. But we realise that some documents are too valuable for you to want to send them with your application, for example, a US Green Card. In these cases, please send us a good-quality photocopy of the original. Also, please make sure that, wherever possible, you do not laminate your documents.

Another link as well:  http://www.vfs-uk-lk.com/images/Checklist%20draft%20non%20settlement%205%20Dec%2006%20(2).pdf

excerpts from the last line -  "It is strongly recommended that you submit original supporting documentation only (apart from savings certificates and property deeds where a certified copy is recommended)."



Ordinarily i would think if an potential applicant has read through this, they would be unlikely to go ahead with an application with photocopied docs knowing the chances of success are very slim. Or in the worst case scenario, get a notarised copy and very clear pinted scanned colored copy of these documents (hoping that at least it might show that those the original copies couldn't truly be made available).

But like i said i'm still on the learning curve and would be interested to see if an appeal would indeed be advisable based on the circumstances surrounding your application.  I think you should post your refusal letter as advised again by mrpataki (all due regards) so that he (and the capable others) can genuinely have the true picture of your circumstances and help out accordingly. I wish you the best. Regards

what is the guarantee that his sponsors would be willing to give him the original on re-applying again?? another 13k will be lost to BHC.

if ufuoslee can get his sponsor to agree to represent him at AIT, the guy will go their with the original documents and show them to the judge and then carry them back home to his house.

if his sponsor refuses to represent him, he should forget about the appeal, forget about applying again for British visa, until he gets sponsors that can give him the original documents.

p.s. for house/property deeds, like C of O,passport pages, colour photocpies will do just fine. but bank statements, letters from sponsors, it has to be originals.

university certificates, nysc discharge certificates, etc are normally laminated. it does not stop BHC from giving students visas to those applying to study for their masters.

funkybaby:

what is the guarantee that his sponsors would be willing to give him the original on re-applying again?? another 13k will be lost to BHC.

if ufuoslee can get his sponsor to agree to represent him at AIT, the guy will go their with the original documents and show them to the judge and then carry them back home to his house.

if his sponsor refuses to represent him, he should forget about the appeal, forget about applying again for British visa, until he gets sponsors that can give him the original documents.

p.s. for house/property deeds, like C of O,passport pages, colour photocpies will do just fine. but bank statements, letters from sponsors, it has to be originals.

You're on spot with this.
I think ufuoslee needs to repost the complete wordings of the refusal letter so that you guys can appraise this. The ECO seems detailed in the refusal reasons.  If i could recall the documents that were indicated on the notice were bank statements from two different sponsors.  dv if i was a sponsor, i won't risk my property deeds by giving out to someone i'm sponsoring but with bank statements i would think this would be different and bound to attract suspicion if copies were presented (on the premise that bank statements are not valuable documents as C of O, title deeds etc as they can always be reproduced easily. And if an individual wants to claim security of personal info, the same personal info woould still be available on the copies which won't make this claim so solid - i'm quite interested in knowing if anyone has been able to make a genuine claim of why they can't present the original copy of a bank statement). 

Also I want to believe that Ufuoslee's sponsors might not be in the UK and might not be able to attend a hearing session in person. Ufuoslee's comments on these issues would dv be very helpful. Regards

Funkybaby, you make me laugh aloud with your allegation that the "lazy" ECOs do "copy and paste refusal letters" What an easy skill, also about the N12000 plus N12000 plus N12000 until ones passport is decorated with stamps. O girl, you get mouth oh!

Now, as for Ufuoslee's case, i understand that you're encouraging her to appeal it because you didn't go through the refusal letter, those who read it will not encourage such; and i'm positive that you'd change your opinion if you see it.
I'm glad that Paribus went through the letter before she withdrew it, and like he advices, i still insist that she reapply and let the former go.

Vicjustice:

Funkybaby, you make me laugh aloud with your allegation that the "lazy" ECOs do "copy and paste refusal letters" What an easy skill, also about the[b] N12000 plus N12000 plus N12000 until ones passport is decorated with stamps[/b]. O girl, you get mouth oh!

Now, as for Ufuoslee's case, i understand that you're encouraging her to appeal it because you didn't go through the refusal letter, those who read it will not encourage such; and i'm positive that you'd change your opinion if you see it.
I'm glad that Paribus went through the letter before she withdrew it, and like he advices, i still insist that she reapply and let the former go.

na true nowww!!!

ok then. if you guys advice her to reapply. i did not read the refusal letter before it was withdrawn.

Vicjustice:

Funkybaby, you make me laugh aloud with your allegation that the "lazy" ECOs do "copy and paste refusal letters" What an easy skill, also about the N12000 plus N12000 plus N12000 until ones passport is decorated with stamps. O girl, you get mouth oh!

Now, as for Ufuoslee's case, i understand that you're encouraging her to appeal it because you didn't go through the refusal letter, those who read it will not encourage such; and i'm positive that you'd change your opinion if you see it.
I'm glad that Paribus went through the letter before she withdrew it, and like he advices, i still insist that she reapply and let the former go.

I was going to commend funkybaby for her excellent advices here when I just saw your reply and I decided to address that first before I give my commendations to her.

Please how many cases of Visa Appeal have you ever seen or handled? Should I come here and start narrating stories of people who were refused with worse cases that Ufo's own yet they reside in the UK at the moment through appeal?!

Do you know how many cases of people have been refused based on the fact of submitting original documents? If her sponsor can defend her at the hearing, I tell you SHE SHOULD GO AHEAD WITH THE APPEAL!

I am not in support of those who continue to visit UK VAC either at engineering close or the one in Ikeja or the one in Bodija, Ibadan or that of the one in Maitama Abuja. If you have the right of appeal, there is nothing stopping you from appealing. Also you can even re-apply alongside with it.

@ funkybaby,
Na wa for you oh. You just leave me for cold here! Nice to see you here again. Thanks for the story shared.

@ tosin_tp,
I have a friend whose case was similar to yours. The only mistake the ECO made was to mis-spell the word ''agricultural'' as ''agricultureal'' in the notice of refusal. Walahi, we did not even write to the HC at all, we just took our appeal to loughborough direct.

When AIT communicated with the HC in lagos showing them what the appeal contains, they called my friend to come pick her visa! Mistakes made like that, is very gross to the credibility of the ECO and to the actual knowledge of what his job entails.

As to your situation, I still maintain you draft a letter of reconsideration to the British Commission here in Nigeria, as well go ahead with the appeal process in Loughborough.

God Bless.

Can't stop laughing, Funky's post (about "lazy ECO copying and pasting refusal letters" should be given an award.

@mrpataki

ose gan my dear. mo ti miss e gan. how's netherland? i hope there are no naija girls there that are as pretty and smart as i am  

funkybaby:

@vicjustice

i beg to disagree.

some sponsors are like that. its not like they do not have the interest of their ward at heart. most times its out of ignorance.

a personal exampls is my sister's case, my uncle did not give her the copy of his house deeds in UK. but on the day of the hearing , he brought every single paper to the court and it was for this singular action that she won the case. i can't really blame him for not giving my sister the house deeds- previous family members had been given visas through letter of invitations from him and none of them presented his property deeds.

these days, its MOST advisable to appeal. your chances are higher. ECOs these days are extremely lazy. all they do is 'copy and paste' refusal letters. the judges at AIT have more patience in dealing with visa cases than they do. You can apply a million times and still get refused. Infact, one refusal is even enough reason for the ECOs to keep denying you. They will always come up with something.

@ufouslee
i agree with mrpataki. if your sponsor will agree to represent you at AIT, then go ahead with the appeal. common sense will tell him to go there with all neccesary document that will support your application. just get him to agree to go there. the rest is small.

seven months appeal can sound like a long long time. but never mind, time flies. hav'nt you ever heard that ''best things come to those who wait''

i will rather pay 12k (in visa application fees) to BDHC, get refused, appeal, wait 7months and get my visa, than pay BHC 12K, get refused, pay another 12k, get refused and pay another 12k and get refused again and [b]get the passport decortaed with refusal stamps. believe, there are some people like that that are paying 'ajo' to BHC. [/b] No join them o!

i am a big advocate of the visa appeal process. it works and best of all, it costs you little or nothing!!!

i have said it all in my post. i share the same views with you.

appeal, appeal and appeal. especially, when you have the right to appeal and your sponsor can represent ypu in court.

Vicjustice:

Can't stop laughing, Funky's post (about "lazy ECO copying and pasting refusal letters" should be given an award.

She is very right there. Have you ever compared refusal notices before? There is already a well stipulated guideline of refusal which all the ECO's must comply with.

Just that I have noticed that of late it has been changing. As well the notices of refusals format they use in countries like India is quite different from that of Nigeria.

mrpataki:

@ tosin_tp,
I have a friend whose case was similar to yours. The only mistake the ECO made was to mis-spell the word ''agricultural'' as ''agricultureal'' in the notice of refusal. Walahi, we did not even write to the HC at all, we just took our appeal to loughborough direct.

When AIT communicated with the HC in lagos showing them what the appeal contains, they called my friend to come pick her visa! Mistakes made like that, is very gross to the credibility of the ECO and to the actual knowledge of what his job entails.

As to your situation, I still maintain you draft a letter of reconsideration to the British Commission here in Nigeria, as well go ahead with the appeal process in Loughborough.

God Bless.

@mrpataki

you are right.

this ''letter of reconsideration'' thing is really working (as soon as you have soild grounds). i never believed it did until recently[sup][/sup]

a friend of mine was refused visa to study at Aberdeen some weeks ago. He wrote a letter of reconsideration to BHC , and he was called to collcet the visa 2weeks after. He was yet to appeal letter/documents though, although he was already making plans to do so.

funkybaby:

@mrpataki
ose gan my dear. mo ti miss e gan. how's netherland? i hope there are no naija girls there that are as pretty and smart as i am  

Naija gurls for where. Man has been shut off from the beauty of 9ja babes.

lol. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Pretty   Yes there are here!

Smart na that one you still dey use hold me down oh

In a way, you guys are right about the refusal letter compositions. I've indeed read up to 5 refusal letters and i remember reading things like: "you have applied for bla bla bla", "you have presented bla bla bla, "i have carefully examined your application bla bla bla", "whilst i am convinced that bla bla bla", "i am not satisfied that bla bla bla", "on the balance of probability bla bla bla",
But mind you, these guys never appealed them but they got their visas in re-applications

yeah. them don dey compose the refusal letters these days with more sense.

seems someone has been giving them lectures on how to prepare them.

they rarely include clauses like '' you are single and unmarried'' (an ECO referring to a 22yr old), as a reason for visa refusals.

funkybaby:

yeah. them don dey compose the refusal letters these days with more sense.

seems someone has been giving them lectures on how to prepare them.

they rarely include clauses like '' you are single and unmarried'' (an ECO referring to a 22yr old), as a reason for visa refusals.

Wetin man never hear finish. Home office in an appeal once said a particular applicant had no ties to his country just because he had no girlfriend he would return to in Nigeria.

Those people need a re-orientation jare.

Below is a testimony from someone who was once refused a visa:

deor03:

my person

i am in the uk now, I re-applied and uptil now my appeal has not been heard. Re-apply forget the appeal and let it run it's course.

Re-application does not do anything to your appeal, just concentrate on the points for refusal in your re-application so that the new ECO's job will be lot easier.

NOTE that each application is unique,

Vicjustice:

Below is a testimony from someone who was once refused a visa:

@vicjustice

pls don't lets start taking statistics on this issue.

you and i know very well as well as various people on nairaland that the number of testimonies we've gotten from those who appealed by far outnumbers those of those who reapplied.

all you have to do is to sit down and read from the very first post on this thread. i do not have the time to start 'cutting and pasting' appeal testimonies here.