Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? - Religion (5) - Nairaland
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Poll: Does the New Testament require us to tithe?Yes: 38% (28 votes)No: 61% (44 votes) This poll has ended |
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| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 8:24am On Aug 27, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: Thanx my brother, it is good to be back. chukwudi44:Olaadegbu is already notorious for his heresies and twisting the bible to suit his whims and caprcies, we can only pray he repents so that his soul would not be damned as the bible warns in 2 peter2: 1-3. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:30pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. -- Matthew 23:23-24 Here we see the stamp of Christ's approval of the noble and most rewarding practise of tithing. If it was wrong or questionable, Christ would not have approved of it. Backed by His knowledge of the counsel and mind of God in all matters, tithing inclusive, Jesus said what is quoted above. He did not condemn the Far-to-see for tithing but for their hypocrisy. Now, see the verse 24, you will see the attributes of these Far to see and Sad you see that I was referring to earlier, how they will like to point out the minutest sin which in itself may not be sinful and yet secretly swallow a carmel. That is what I call the Psalm 41:9 mentality. Read up on how these gangs operate in John 12:1-8. One should note that the practise of tithes and offering was continued in the early church as you can see in the verse below: "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." -- 1 Cor. 16:2 So, we can see that this pivotal, yet much misunderstood subject enjoys mention in practically every section of the Bible. This is an outstanding proof for all sincere seekers (Philipians 4:19  ) worshippers of God. This is a challenge to those who think that the truth of the Word of God concerning tithe and offering is alien to the New Testament! (Psalms 41:9).  |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by ttalks(m): 1:28pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
OLAADEGBU: @Olaadegbu, Matthew 23:23 was not talking about Christ approving tithes for Christianity. Tithes then were expected to be paid during the period of the law which was in force. Christ only was telling those people that he expected that they should keep all aspects of the law and not leave others undone. Tithes were part of the law and were expected to be kept by all during that dispensation/time period. Especialy the pharisees who were supposed to be leaders who lead by example. The dispensation of the law came to an end after Christ's death on the cross.So, all those requirements went with the law; after its fulfilment. The fulfilment of the law was complete with Christ's death on the cross. 1 Corinthians 16:2 was a request of Paul to the people/Christians in that place for a specific purpose. it wasn't the laying down of a practice to be continued forever.He made that request of the people to gather their offerings on the first day of a particular week(not every week for life) so that he could have everything ready for him to take to those who needed them. Tithes were definitely not part of those offerings.All those offerings were offered as the people decided they could ;in varying amounts and percentages,no specific stipulations. Please be honest in ur analysis of scripture. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by ttalks(m): 1:32pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Also, @Olaadegbu, You keep mentioning Philipians 4:19. Could you do a very honest analysis of what that verse is talking about in the proper context in which it was written so we can see how it aligns with ur belief about tithes?! |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 1:57pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Olaadegbu shut up, christ was addressing pharisees who were under obligation to keep the jewish laws in that passage you love quoting out of context. He never taught tithing to his followers. He was speaking to those under the law and by his grace true christians are no longer under the law. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:44pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Blind Guides "Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!" (Matthew 23:16) The 23rd chapter of Matthew contains some harsh denunciations as Jesus delivers the eight "woe's." Even the Greek word is a bit eerie; it is pronounced "oo-ah-ee!" Can you imagine this series of stern admonitions delivered to the faces of these self-righteous manipulators of truth? "Oo-ah-ee you scribes and Pharisees and Sadducees, hypocrites!" It must have given chills to everyone there. The blindness that Jesus was condemning has both a practical and spiritual impact. Obviously, if one does not understand simple truth, the result is going to be either embarrassing or painful. "They be blind leaders of the blind," Jesus said. "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch" (Matthew 15:14). The great Creator of the universe knows best how to guide His creation. If we, the stewards (Genesis 1:28), do not know or understand the Creator's instructions, we are bound to get into trouble. That "truth blindness" often results in "blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel," (Matthew 23:24). But the greater blindness is spiritual. Peter listed attributes on how to grow in faith and gain assurance. Then he advised, "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins" (2 Peter 1:9). In His messages to the seven churches, Jesus warned Laodicea, "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Revelation 3:17). His counsel: "Buy of me gold . . . and white raiment . . . and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see" (Revelation 3:18). HMM III |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by PastorAIO: 3:01pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
I don't know, if someone came up to me and said: ooo-aaa-eee pastor! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to enter. ooo-aaa-eee pastor! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. ooo-aaa-eee pastor! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath. ooo-aaa-eee pastor!You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. ooo-aaa-eee pastor! you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. ooo-aaa-eee pastor! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. ooo-aaa-eee pastor!You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. . . . I think I would be more inclined to laugh. Oooaaaeeeeee !!! |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by ttalks(m): 3:37pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
OLAADEGBU: *Sighs and shakes head *  |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 4:30pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
@olaadegbu Since you are conversant with this warnings of Jesus, how come you are so notoriou for twisting scripture? Is that showing complete disregard for Jesus you claim to believe in. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by nuraabi: 5:52pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Olaadegbu is a christ embassy member can you guys let him remain in DELUSION, God will reach him |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:45pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Let us consider the principles and practice of tithing and offering once again using biblical passages so as not to be unecessary emotional about it. Text: Genesis 14:17-24; 28:16-22; Malachi 3:7-18; 1 Cor.16:1-3 From the above passages we can learn that the principles and practice of tithing and giving offerings to the Lord is timeless. It is a very important Bible teaching for everyone in every age and dispensation. It came before the law. It was not a peculiarity of the dispensation of grace. Although it began before the era of the Law, it did not end at the time of Christ. In other words, it was neither given by Moses nor abrogated by Jesus Christ. Rather, it spans through the eras before the Law, the kings, the prophets to the dispensation of grace. The commencement of tithing, if thoroughly examined, renders all excuses for not obeying the biblical injunction baseless. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:29pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. -- Romans 15:4 Let us study these Bible passages and learn lessons that will help believers in Christ to give God the best and not what is left. Genesis 14:17-24; 28:16-22; Leviticus 27:30-32; Numbers 18:21-24; Deut.12:5-7, 11, 17-19; 14:22-29; 26:12-15; 2 Chronicles 31:5-10; Malachi 3:10; Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12 These passages teach us about the Bible practice of Tithing throughout the Bibe. If you feel that it is not necessary to study these biblical practices and principles then you have no reason to pay tithes and offering in the first place. Tithe is the practice of giving a tenth of one's income or property as an offering to God. It is an expression of gratitude to God by His people. Before the Law, the patriarchs gave tithes to the Lord. In fact, abouty 430 years before the Law was instituted, Abraham, the friend of God, coming from one of his exploits, gave tithe to Melchizedek, the righteous King of Salem. "Melchizedek King of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And hath delivered thine enemies into they hand. And he gave him tithes of all" -- Gen.14:18-20. Bible scholars will realise that the conduct of Abraham in this dramatic meeting laid a solid foundation for the practice that God was to ordain for that time and all times. Still, before the Law, Jacob, a grandson of Abraham, had knowledge of the practice of tithing. This was evident in his vow, in Bethel, to give tithe of all his possessions: "And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee." -- Genesis 28:22 In the Law, that is, in the days of Moses, God instituted tithing thus, giving His irrevocable sanction for the earlier practice of Abraham and Jacob. The Law of Moses prescribed tithing in details. "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD." -- Lev.27:30 The tithes of the land were to include the seed of the land and the fruit of the trees. Besides, the Israelites were mandated to set aside every tenth of their animals of their herds and flocks to the Lord. They were also instructed to take their tithes to a place the Lord will prescribe. These instructions were carried out by the children of Israel in the days of Moses and the kings. However, the Israelites deviated from this practice of bringing in their tithes and offerings at the time of the prophet Malachi. Hence, he indicted the whole nation of Israel for robbing God. "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation." -- Malachi 3:8,9 |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by ttalks(m): 12:16am On Aug 28, 2009 |
1Corinthians 16:1-4 (1) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. (2) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (3) And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. (4) And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me. Above is a portion in the Bible which Olaadegbu and other tithe advocates use to wrongly justify the practice of tithes in the early church. Below is a portion from a book about tithes and giving which explains the above portion properly: Though 2 Corinthians 8-9 is the longest exposition concerning New Testament giving, there are in the Scriptures that are addressed to the body of Christ, more passages about this important topic. One of them is in 1 Corinthians 16:1-5. There we read: “Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem. But if it is fitting that I go also, they will go with me.” This passage is very similar in character with 2 Corinthians 8-9. Again the collection is for the (poor) saints in Jerusalem. They are the same recipients as in 2 Corinthians. It appears that the Jerusalem saints were in great need and the Corinthians, the Macedonians and maybe also the Galatians were contributing to help their needs. The new in this passage is the reference to storing for the poor on the first day of the week. The Greek text translated here as “the first day of the week”, is “on one of the Sabbaths”. It is used in some occasions in the New Testament but it is not clear to me what it exactly means. Regardless of this, what Paul says here to the Corinthians is that each one should make a kind of a fund for the poor, storing there on a regular basis (“on one of the Sabbaths”) as he may prosper. Notice the rule here: the rule is not the tithe. It is not “store up your tithes”. It is “store up as you may prosper”. Both poor and rich were supposed to store up, each one as he may prosper i.e. in accordance to their resources. 2 Corinthians takes this further adding the desire, the cheerful, non-grudging giver plus the other elements we saw there. The reason that Paul mentions for the necessity of the regularity of these contributions is, as he says, “that there be no collections when I come”. This is the reason behind doing the contributions on a regular basis. Would these contributions continue forever, even after Paul came? No, not at least for this purpose. The contributions were for a specific purpose (“to help the poor saints in Jerusalem”) and were done on a regular basis (“on the first day of the week”) so that they would not be done at haste when Paul would come. After Paul had come they would not continue, at least not for this purpose. But the principle is there, and the principle is that as Christians we should help our poor brothers. This would not be an erratic giving – though this could happen too – but could also be a giving on a more regular basis, based on the needs. We could be tipped to it from a church planter (like Paul here) or we could also be brought there directly by the Lord (“the rich and the poor meet together; the Lord is the maker of them all” (Proverbs 22:2). The complete book is here. The PDF version can be downloaded here. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:28am On Aug 28, 2009 |
"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." -- 1 Cor. 16:2 In the NT, we see the stamp of Christ's approval as in Matt.23:23 as I have stated earlier, and in the early church who continued this practice as the verse quoted above portrays. We can see that this subject enjoys mention in practically every section of the Bible. This is an outstanding evidence for all sincere, diligent and faithful worshippers of God. And as said earlier, it is also a challenge to those who think that the truth of the Word of God concerning tithe and offering is alien to the NT. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfil it. One of the ways that He fulfilled the Law was to first give the proper interpretation of the moral Law which lives and abides forever. Everything that Jesus taught was timeless and should be practiced in our lives today. They were not for OT alone but for the New. The verse above shows how the disciples continued in such practice and from here you can see that they were not only gathering tithes and offering but did this on the first day of the week, which reveals that they used to meet regularly on Sundays instead of Saturdays and you don't have to be a brain surgeon to realise that they must have been using money. In th OT, the purpose of giving tithe was to meet material needs of the Levites, the stranger, the fatherless (the orphan), and the widow (Deut.26:12,13). Believers are to give tithes and offering for the support of the work of the gospel. Besides, they are expected to be generous in sharing their material possessions with the poor. What is the secret of prosperity? Giving. What is the essence of Biblical giving? Jesus said that it is more blessed to give than to receive. Biblical giving centres on the ability to earn material resources and the willingness to let these resources be used for the maximum benefit of the kingdom of God. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:55am On Aug 28, 2009 |
Let us go further into the deeper end where the principles and practices of tithes and offering will take us. Make sure you fasten your seat belts. 1 Cor. 4:1,2; Romans 14:12; Matthew 25:20-30; 1 Peter 4:10; Luke 12:42; 1 Timothy 6:19, 20; 2 Corinthians 9:1-9 From the passages above, if you are still there, you will realise that a good grasp of the Bible doctrine of stewardship will lead us to surrender all our material wealth to God and give to Him in joy and gratitude. Stewardship is giving ourselves to God and using our human and material resources for the glory of God and allowing Him to have first place in our lives. As believers, we are in charge of God's material and financial assets and are called to be faithful stewards of all our possessions. We are called to a life of giving which goes beyond paying tithe, which is the minimum. The uniform testimony of the Scriptures and the united proclamation of all enlightened saints is that God owns all the earth and the fulness thereof by creation. Beyond the realisation and submission of the average believer, God has the right of ownership on the believer's life, time and possession. The believer is therefore to allow God an unhindered access to everything He has put in his care. Except his time, money and talent are spent as His Word, will and work demand, he is not in perfect, harmonious fellowship with God. Giving is one of the greatest challenges of the Christian life and one of the greatest privileges that we enjoy as believers. However, many believers are yet to discover the great potential in giving. Why? Because they are yet to understand the Bible doctrine of stewardship and biblical principle of giving. Lack of money is not the problem; it is actually a hazy understanding of our responsibilities as stewards of God's money. Some Christians, however, think that tithe is all that God requires of them. How wrong they are! Tithe is the minimum giving God expects of us. He expects us to give more to Him by way of freewill giving, love offering, thanks offering and sacrificial giving. In fact, the Scriptures command us to give to God, to His saints, to the Body of Christ and to our fellow men (Deut. 16:17; Matthew 6:3; 2 Cor. 9:7). God who is generous with His manifold mercies, deserves nothing less from us. Our tithes, love offering and freewill offerings are "an odour of sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well pleasing unto God." -- Philipians 4:18 So, be blessed and highly flavoured. Giving 10% of your income and even more is a vital aspect of our Christian giving. This is because it does show, in practical terms, our acknowledgement of the fact that God owns everything. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 9:03am On Aug 28, 2009 |
@OLAADEGBU Please stop spamming this thread, maybe instead you should respond to the exposition ttalks just did on one of the several bible passages you loving twisting all in the bid to promote your herectic and greedy false doctrine of tithes. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 9:57am On Aug 28, 2009 |
@Oladeegbu 2 cor 8:3 For I can testify that they gave not only what they could afford but far more.And the did it of their own freewill 2 cor 8:11-13 Now you should carry this project through to completion just as enthusiastically as you began it .Give whatever you can according to whatever you have If youare really eager to give it ,it isn't important how much you are able to give .God wants you to give what you have not what you don't have. Of course I dont mean that you should give so much that you suffer from having too little.I only mean that they should be some equality |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by beewhyfocs(m): 10:20am On Aug 28, 2009 |
Have you guyz forgotten that Jesus did not come to abolish the Law? Why do we think tithing as practiced in the old testament is not relevant today? He only came to show us a more wonderful way and to fulfill the law. The pharisee boasted of their tithing inklings in Matthew 23:22-23 and Jesus never condemed it. He rather answered in Mathew 23:23, that you should pay tithe though should not neglect other weighty matters of the kingdom. Someone was even referring to after the death of Jesus. Its evident that most of Jesus' deed while on earth reflects what he expects from the NT believers. Apostle Paul might not have taught about tithing, that is not a basis to justify our selfish claim of holding back the 10 percent! |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 11:28am On Aug 28, 2009 |
beewhyfocs: Since christ did not abolish the law why don't you continue with the other non -lucrative requirements of the law. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 11:30am On Aug 28, 2009 |
Who is selfish, is it me or the greedy pastor twisting scripture to extort 10% of my income from me. Please note the bible never defined tithes as money from income. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 11:34am On Aug 28, 2009 |
I am still asking this question without reply bfrom Oladeegbu and other pro tithers Please who increased the tithing frequency from once in 3 years prescribed by the obsolete law of tithing to the daily ,weekly,and monthly tithing done in today's churches. @beewhyfocs Apostle Paul might not have taught about tithing, that is not a basis to justify our selfish claim of holding back the 10 percent! The fact that paul did not preach tithing means that it is not required ofn us christians |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 11:42am On Aug 28, 2009 |
Abi oh, paul and the other apostles were the ones mandated by Jesus to establish christianity and they never taught tithes as part of it, they further went on to warn us on false teachers who would come and teach what was not part of the faith [I.e tithes] to make money from them. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by dwonder(m): 12:29pm On Aug 31, 2009 |
WHY NOT NEEDED To pressure members of a congregation in a gentle way to contribute by resorting to devices without Scriptural precedent or support, such as passing a collection plate in front of them or operating bingo games, holding church suppers, bazaars and rummage sales or soliciting pledges, is to admit a weakness. There is something wrong. There is a lack. A lack of what? A lack of appreciation. No such coaxing or pressuring devices are needed where there is genuine appreciation. Could this lack of appreciation be related to the kind of spiritual food offered to the people in these churches? The fact is that when persons are fed the right kind of spiritual food, that based squarely on the Word of God, the Bible, they learn to appreciate what Jehovah God has done for them and so they respond by volunteering both their services and money contributions. As they learn of God’s goodness they are moved to imitate him, even as Jesus taught: “Prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”—Matt. 5:45, 48. More than that, as men of honest heart are helped to set their personal lives straight, as they experience the joys of associating with other sincere men and women desirous of serving God, and as they have their faith in God and in his Word increased and their hope strengthened in God’s kingdom and its coming new order of righteousness, they feel compelled to express their appreciation in a material way, even as the early Christians did right after Pentecost.—Acts 4:32-35. Not to be overlooked is also the example set by those taking the lead in Christian worship. Doubtless the fine examples of Moses, David, Jesus Christ and his apostles had a good effect upon those over whom they were set or to whom they ministered. In the early Christian congregation there was no salaried clergy, in fact, no clergy-laity distinction; all preached as they had opportunity and to the extent of their abilities. Far from being served and paid, those who took the lead bore the greatest burdens, even as Jesus showed it should be: “Whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister [diákonos, “servant”], and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave.” When due to immaturity the Corinthian Christians did not appreciate their privilege of contributing voluntarily to defray Paul’s expenses, he did not take up a collection but provided for himself by making tents!—Matt. 20:25-27; Acts 18:3; 1 Cor. 4:11, 12; 9:11, 12. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by dwonder(m): 12:32pm On Aug 31, 2009 |
BIBLE PRINCIPLES GOVERNING GIVING Also helping to make collections unnecessary is an understanding of Bible principles governing giving. One of these is that, to be pleasing to God, giving must be done unselfishly. [/b]Jesus condemned those who advertised their charities and counseled: “When making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, that your gifts of mercy may be in secret; then your Father who is looking on in secret will repay you.” [b]Paul made the same point, that unless giving is prompted by love one is “not profited at all.” Only unselfish giving counts with God, for it is not primarily concerned with self but with others and asks not, How much must I give, but, How much can I give?—Matt. 6:2-4; 1 Cor. 13:3. Another Bible principle that governs giving is that God judges the gift, not by its size, but by its relation to what one has. Yes, a gift is “acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.” How just! How reasonable! How considerate! Jesus illustrated this principle when calling attention to the widow who put two coins of very little value into the temple treasury chest. He said that she had given more than any of the rest, for they gave out of their surplus but she “out of her want dropped in all the means of living she had.” This principle is of great encouragement to all who can give but little, since in God’s eyes it is much, and at the same time it encourages generous giving on the part of those who have much, so as to bear some resemblance to what they have!—2 Cor. 8:12; Luke 21:1-4. Still another Bible principle pertinent here is that “God loves a cheerful giver”; a principle, it might be added, that is not at all limited to the giving of money but applies to all kinds of giving, including the giving of forgiveness to those who sin against us: “He that shows mercy, let him do it with cheerfulness.” Cheerful giving makes for generous giving!—2 Cor. 9:7; Rom. 12:8. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 8:58am On Sep 01, 2009 |
@dwonder Nice write up, May God bless you for upholding the truth of his word. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 5:26pm On Sep 01, 2009 |
@ Ttalks, Chukwudi44, dwonder Let me explain somethings to you guys that i think you dont really understand because as it appears to me you guys do not seem to have any concrete explanation to prove that the practise was abolished, if you do then show me where it was stated in the scripturesof the NT that "titheing is no longer to be practised"and i mean "titheing" as a word or term as being abolished, you seem to be bringing your judgement of tithe based on a silly fact that tithe emanated from the LAW, i have taken my time to show you guys that this thing existed b4 the origin of the law,"JUST BECOS AN ANCIENT PRACTISE WHOSE ORIGIN DATED BEFORE THE LAW WAS LATER INTRODUCED INTO THE LAW DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD BE ABOLISHED WITH THE LAW", i have always said it "it never started with the law so why should it be abolished?" this is the simple reason why i say titheing is not a law. Each time we bring points here you guys call it "scripture twisting", isnt that funny? @KunleOshod, I use to take you as respectful, but I guess i was wrong with the way I have really followed your replies althru’ and surprised how you almost started worshipping yourself from your intro-post recently, hmmm not surprised anyway, afterall “a man’s word is just a reflection of his person”. I read someone still asking what I meant by standards after much explanation, now let me try my best as the spirit of God gives utterance. 1. If you take the time to read thru’ the bible you’ll see that God’s relationship with man followed a pattern and this pattern has standards that both parties must follow for a true relationship What were this patterns?: 1. There must be a Priest who mediates btw God and Man (read.Heb.7:17-20)Mechisedek was the first to assume this office of which Job did the same (Job.1:5), thereafter Abraham (Gen.18:20-33),Abraham’s lineage and then to Jacob’s and later to Moses and the trail followed until Jesus’s time 2. Now carefully take the time to study what each of this priest/princes did, One was that they gave offerings as a means of worship/relationship and they offered sacrifices which were meant to make atonement for sins, two they taught the people how to relate with God and Man, which if you agree with me a little account of their acts was given of some of these few men who assumed the office of the priest. 3. Now One practice the bible noted that some of these princes/priests did was the act of paying tithe, take for example Melchisedek received tithe, Abraham gave tithe, Jacob promised tithe, Nehemiah ordered tithe, Moses instituted Tithe, Jesus rebuked hypocrites of wrong titheing but approved it in his comment “the later you are suppose to keep not despising the former(tithe)- Matt.23:23” 4. Now the question is this? What is the relevance of titheing since I said it remains a practice that should still be relevant in the scriptures one may ask, Titheing is as significant as Offering is but the chasm is that the later was given freely while the former has followed an standard (a specific amount), now that’s what I meant by standard. Now Melshicedek received tithe, and Bible said Jesus was made a priest after the order of melchisedek, have you really ask yourself this, that if Jesus Christ was a priest after Melchisedek and melchisedek received tithe, then what was expected of Jesus Christ Malkiy-Tsedeq This order could be compared as Aaron (as melchisedek) and the levites (as Christ)-Heb.7:16, Aaron received it under the law; likewise the levites took it from the people and gave it to the High priest whom Aaron fell into. Today when we give tithe, the Men of God (levites after the order of Christ) receives it with prayers and presents it to Jesus Christ (Priest after the order of melchisedek who received tithe) Read Hebrews.6, 7,8 again Now the problem here with folks is that you are simply looking for an express passage in the NT that says Chuwkudi44, ttalks, KunleOshod please pay tithe, isn’t that funny. Even of the Life of Jesus, the bible made it clear that no one can put His(christ’s) life all in paper as not even the whole world can contain the books. So which tells you and me that the bible is only a guideline of God’s pattern for living and not the totally of His instruction. God bless ya’ll and pls lets try not to act as if we know too much as bible says we were given knowledge by the grace of God and we all only know in fragments of the knowledge that is in Christ Jesus (1COR.13:9) |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 6:39pm On Sep 01, 2009 |
@Tonye-t You are just adding 2+2 to get 10 tithing as no scriptural backing in new testament xtianity. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by ttalks(m): 9:29pm On Sep 01, 2009 |
Tonye-t, you still amaze me. Do you really understand what it meant when the bible said "after/according to the order of melchizedek"? This was in reference to a priest who has an endless life; not a list of priests in an order. Heb 7:15-16 (15) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, (16) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. The boldened part of the above verses shows the highlight or the point of the "order of melchizedek". When you see the "order of melchizedek", it refers to "like melchizedek" or "in the similitude of melchizedek", not an order or cult of priests. reading the whole of Hebrews 7 properly would make that very clear. And besides,I wonder why ur strong point as regards tithes is always,"it came before the law". Fine, it came before the law, but those times before the law is not the time or dispensation we operate in.We are in a new era brought about by Christ which has its own principles. Heb 10:19-20(KJV) (19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Heb 10:19-20(ISV) (19) Therefore, my brothers, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, (20) the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain (that is, through his flesh), Heb 10:19-20(CEV) (19) My friends, the blood of Jesus gives us courage to enter the most holy place (20) by a new way that leads to life! And this way takes us through the curtain that is Christ himself. We have a very brand new way provided for us by Christ. Why are we still so desperate to hang on to the old? |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 9:41am On Sep 02, 2009 |
@Tonye-t I am sorry if i sounded rude in any of my posts but it really ticks me off when i see people twisting the word of God for the sake of money, i think it is one of the greatest sins imaginable and the truthis ssooo glaring and obvious for every one to see hence i sometimes loose my patience in responding to some psots. However i have already written a lot of things on this issue on nairaland and i have been able to esatblish in several ways than one that tithing was never directed at chrisitans and the type of tithing done today is even alien to biblical tithing. I am quite sure you know the truth but for what ever reason best known to you, you decide to hold on to the man made doctrines which is clearly derived fom twisting the biblical version of tithes. You even go on to say it was a standard this i found really nauseating as it shows that you are just grasping at straws to justify it by all means since there is no christian justification for it in the bible. I remember asking why burnt offerings and other standard jewish practises before the law where not included in list of your standards[that contains only one item] I also asked how Abraham's one off gift of tithes from war booty and Jacob's unfufilled promise to tithe became a standard with which we must practise every week/month? even going by Abraham's "standard" it means we should tithe only when we have an extra ordinary income and by Jacob's standard we should tithe only conditionally when God answers a specific prayer first. Even your "standards" contradict each other and they were voluntary and not instructed by God. So if you must preach tithes my dear brother i suggest you preach it as voluntary act and not as mandatory based on the obsolete/irrelevant verses in Malachi 3. Remember we would all be called to give account of our stewardship on that day and it is a sacriledgeto twist God's word. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 2:27pm On Sep 02, 2009 |
@Ttalks, good day brother, let me take some few minutes to reply to your comment 1. i'll quote you as wrong for saying that "after the order of mel~" was the same as "in the similitude/likeness of mel~", what is meant by similitude is that one could act as the other but not the same which to me is wrong when you compare melchisedek and Jesus, they were never compared but rather connected, do you understand? now this is what i mean: the presence of "order" in that passage was used as a NOUN which in Hebrew language means " 1. taxis NT:5010, "an arranging, arrangement, order" (akin to tasso, "to arrange, draw up in order" while your usage or will i say understanding of the word "order" is a VERB hence not the same as what the bible used in that passage, your usage of 'order' in hebrew is defined as epidiorthoo NT:1930, "to set in order" (epi "upon," dia, "through, intensive," and orthos, "straight" A priest after the order of Melchisedec @Ttalk the bible is no author of confusion, for the bible to have connected Jesus Christ to Melchisedek simply meant that Melchisedek was a predecessor and not like any other ancestor, How? Melchisedek was a supernatural being, he was described as one "having an endless life" meaning he was no human, Now trying to explain to you better what the bible referred to as "new and living way", was that He showed us a new way to approach God and this statement was made to explain to you the limitations of the law (i.e. what the law could not do). Jesus' nature had the same quality as Melchisedek, which meant there was a divine order, now see it this way, the way supernatural beings operate are not the same with natural beings which tells you and me that since they were both traced as supernatural it means there code of practise MUST be the same, do you understand? Therefore what it simply means is that -IF A SUPERNATURAL BEING RECEIVED TITHE FROM ABRAHAM B4 THE LAW IT THEREFORE MEANS THAT A SUPERNATURAL BEING WILL STILL BE REQUIRED TO RECEIVE TITHE EVEN AFTER THE LAW, because since the practise of tithe never began with the law it should not and i repeat it should not stop with law, do you understand? Melchisedek and Jesus Christ are of the same order (a noun) and it is required that since both are of the same order they must follow a pattern of administeration or governance. I wish you'll be unbaised to understand this my brother. Now to you KunleOshod i think respect you for the humility you just showed (one attribute i covet), nonetheless one can simply scan your comments and come out with some few reasons why you feel titheing should not be relevant 1. you feel that because Men-of-God of this endtime abuse the practise of titheing, therefore it should not find a place today, which is where you are wrong, because bible says "whatever we do, we should do as unto God and not unto Man" why should Bishop XYZ's purchase of a jet now stop me from fulfilling my spiritual task(Col.3:23) 2. You feel that because you have come up here b4 with a topic to counter titheing and maybe some majority accepted your points means that you have explained the TRUTH, my brother you may be wrong if not for anything but for tithing because i have taken the time to read your thread on tithing and believe me all i have seen there was how you related titheing to the law, which is very poor for a discussant and to even faulter your opinions more i put it to you to show me explicitly where it was stated in the new testament that [U]TITHEING HAS BEEN ABOLISHED WITH THE LAW[/u], afterall YOU MAY WALK UP TO A CROWD AND GIVE THEM WRONG INFORMATION AND BET ME YOU'LL GET LARGE FOLLOWERS YOU BELIEVE THAT FALLASY, WHILE ANOTHER MAY WALK UP TO A PEOPLE AND GIVE ALL THE GENUINE REASONS YET THEY CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE. Freedom of choice doesnt mean that the majority wins 3. As for burnt offering that was practised b4 the law, i can boldly tell you that even till todaay that practise is still ongoing in heaven, every priest performs burnt offering which is still one of the things Christ is doing up there for you and me, no need to expantaite because it appears that you guys dont even know the significance of burnt offerings so i'll keep that topic for another day becos you guys just pick up a point from the abstract and present it without a base knowledge and significance of what it means. I'll stop here for now, God bless you'all |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 3:48pm On Sep 02, 2009 |
- IF A SUPERNATURAL BEING RECEIVED TITHE FROM ABRAHAM B4 THE LAW IT THEREFORE MEANS THAT A SUPERNATURAL BEING WILL STILL BE REQUIRED TO RECEIVE TITHE EVEN AFTER THE LAW, That is what I am waiting for ;a supernatural being asking for tithes but all I see are human beings asking for tithes  because since the practise of tithe never began with the law it should not and i repeat it should not stop with law, do you understand? Melchisedek and Jesus Christ are of the same order (a noun) and it is required that since both are of the same order they must follow a pattern of administeration or governance. I wish you'll be unbaised to understand this my brother It is amazing that Jesus who was supposed to continue with this practise never demanded or received tithes during his 33 years old sorjourn on earth.
Sorry there is no spiritual tasks that demands christians should pay tithes. You feel that because you have come up here b4 with a topic to counter titheing and maybe some majority accepted your points means that you have explained the TRUTH, my brother you may be wrong if not for anything but for tithing because i have taken the time to read your thread on tithing and believe me all i have seen there was how you related titheing to the law, which is very poor for a discussant and to even faulter your opinions more i put it to you to show me explicitly where it was stated in the new testament that TITHEING HAS BEEN ABOLISHED WITH THE LAW, afterall YOU MAY WALK UP TO A CROWD AND GIVE THEM WRONG INFORMATION AND BET ME YOU'LL GET LARGE FOLLOWERS YOU BELIEVE THAT FALLASY, WHILE ANOTHER MAY WALK UP TO A PEOPLE AND GIVE ALL THE GENUINE REASONS YET THEY CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE. Freedom of choice doesnt mean that the majority wins heb7:18,ephe 2:15,gal 5:4 e.t.c Why don'tb you show cme a bible passage that shows where[b] christians[/b] paid tithes or were asked to pay tithes. The tithe paid by Abraham to melchizedek was just done once in his lifetime ,while the levitical tithes was done once in 3 years ,how come we have monthly,weekly or even daily tithing today which is contrary to either levitical or melchizedek tithe. 3. As for burnt offering that was practised b4 the law, i can boldly tell you that even till todaay that practise is still ongoing in heaven, every priest performs burnt offering which is still one of the things Christ is doing up there for you and me, no need to expantaite because it appears that you guys dont even know the significance of burnt offerings so i'll keep that topic for another day becos you guys just pick up a point from the abstract and present it without a base knowledge and significance of what it means Since christ is doing burnt oferings for us in heaven he must also be paying tithes for us in heaven so we need to bother abi why should he do one and leave the other when he can do both of them |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 4:44pm On Sep 02, 2009 |
| Chukwudi77 u make me laff out real loud, this is just a typical example of milkers from hard-boners LOL How u dey |
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