3. Where exactly did God state that He wanted all men to be saved and come to a knowing of the Truth(Jesus Christ) ?

Didn't the same reveal that the soul that sins must die - Ezekiel 18 vs 1 -3 ?

3. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 2:4 *Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth*

B. Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23.

Kobojunkie:
1. Ok

2. I understand you better now.

3. Where exactly did God state that He wanted all men to be saved and come to a knowing of the Truth(Jesus Christ) ?

Didn't the same reveal that the soul that sins must die - Ezekiel 18 vs 1 -3 ?

Wasn't it Jesus Christ who declared that only a few who enter into the Kingdom of God will make it into Heaven - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 ?

4. Ok, so those in the underworld are those who have been granted eternal life - this by believing in God -, and not those condemned to perish upon death on this earth.
Then, If they already have eternal life and this through Jesus Christ, why do the Sons of God need to go preach to them again?

.

The reason why Jesus mentioned that only few will make or enter the kingdom of heaven is the same reason why he declared that he is the way, the truth and the Life. So that it wouldn't just be few who will enter the kingdom but as many that believed on his name. (Do you understand)

Kobojunkie:
1. Ok

2. I understand you better now.

3. Where exactly did God state that He wanted all men to be saved and come to a knowing of the Truth(Jesus Christ) ?

Didn't the same reveal that the soul that sins must die - Ezekiel 18 vs 1 -3 ?

Wasn't it Jesus Christ who declared that only a few who enter into the Kingdom of God will make it into Heaven - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 ?

4. Ok, so those in the underworld are those who have been granted eternal life - this by believing in God -, and not those condemned to perish upon death on this earth.
Then, If they already have eternal life and this through Jesus Christ, why do the Sons of God need to go preach to them again?

Everyone who dies and have ever died will go the underworld whether they have been granted eternal life or not. What will seperate those that have recieved the gift of eternal life is when the trumpet shall sound, they shall awake and meet the Lord in the air while the remaining shall remain asleep till the judgment day. (Do you understand)

wirinet:


Gbam. To the discerning, you have achieved enlightenment or Buddhahood. God is a personal experience. Different people have their own personal experience of God and some don't experience it at all. It does not make one person's experience more valid than another. The greatest tragedy to me is trying to convince others to accept your own experience of God as the only valid experience, while everyone else experience is invalid.

Exactly Boss.
The concept of spirituality is a personal experience. Some are interested in God, some are not. It's Choice

dontrulee:

3. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 2:4 *Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth*

B. Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23.

Those are supposedly the words of Paul, not God. And we know that God is True so He cannot contradict His own self.

dontrulee:

Everyone who dies and have ever died will go the underworld whether they have been granted eternal life or not. What will seperate those that have recieved the gift of eternal life is when the trumpet shall sound, they shall awake and meet the Lord in the air while the remaining shall remain asleep till the judgment day. (Do you understand)

So, when God said dust to dust, in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19, you assume that He didn't mean it?

Kobojunkie:
Those are supposedly the words of Paul, not God. And we know that God is True so He cannot contradict His own self.

.

Alright Sir. So you feel God will sacrifice is only begotten son just for few people to make heaven? Did Jesus die for a few people or for the whole world? Jesus understood that his mission to die on the cross was to give man the access to eternal life (which is a gift) but unfortunately man has free choice and hence can refuse the gift of eternal life and choose death instead.

Kobojunkie:
So, when God said dust to dust, in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19, you assume that He didn't mean it?

Of course God meant it and it's a reality. When we die we shall all return to dust. And that's why this mortal body will put on immortality on the day that Christ's comes again.
Ezekiel 37

dontrulee:
.
The reason why Jesus mentioned that only few will make or enter the kingdom of heaven is the same reason why he declared that he is the way, the truth and the Life. So that it wouldn't just be few who will enter the kingdom but as many that believed on his name. (Do you understand)

Huh?
I don't follow at all.

Kobojunkie:
Huh?
I don't follow at all.

Let me explain better. When Jesus made the statement that only a few will get to heaven, he was still on earth and had not died yet. But after he died, the gates became wide opened. (Do you understand now)

dontrulee:
.
Alright Sir. So you feel God will sacrifice is only begotten son just for few people to make heaven? Did Jesus die for a few people or for the whole world? Jesus understood that his mission to die on the cross was to give man the access to eternal life (which is a gift) but unfortunately man has free choice and hence can refuse the gift of eternal life and choose death instead.

God did not "sacrifice" Jesus Christ. Instead, He gave Jesus Christ, His New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God, to the world so that those who will believe in Him will not perish- be returned to dust when they die - but instead be given eternal life instead- John 3 vs 16

And Jesus Christ, we know, died in order to make available the New Covenant/agreement/Law, promised by God since even the time of Abraham, to not just the lost sheep of Israel but also those of the Gentile world.

Now, it is one thing to make a thing available and another for that thing, in this case, the Law to be accepted by individuals. And according to Jesus Christ, only a few will indeed accept that Law that He made available to them - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - the Law as it is in the Kingdom of God.

dontrulee:

Of course God meant it and it's a reality. When we die we shall all return to dust. And that's why this mortal body will put on immortality on the day that Christ's comes again.
Ezekiel 37

You are still not saying what God Himself said at all. God Judged the unbeliever Adam, declaring "....till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." - Genesis 3 vs 19

God did not there say only your body will return to dust....no, instead, He declared that man(mind, body, soul) will return to dust when man dies.

You however believe there is an underworld where all men go to whether granted eternal/after life or not, and this idea is against God's own judgement in Genesis 3 vs 19.

dontrulee:

Let me explain better. When Jesus made the statement that only a few will get to heaven, he was still on earth and had not died yet. But after he died, the gates became wide opened. (Do you understand now)

The gates became wide open to what? How? I still don't follow at all.

Kobojunkie:
God did not "sacrifice" Jesus Christ. Instead, He gave Jesus Christ, His New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God, to the world so that those who will believe in Him will not perish- be returned to dust when they die - but instead be given eternal life instead- John 3 vs 16

And Jesus Christ, we know, died in order to make available the New Covenant/agreement/Law, promised by God since even the time of Abraham, to not just the lost sheep of Israel but also those of the Gentile world.

Now, it is one thing to make a thing available and another for that thing, in this case, the Law to be accepted by individuals. And according to Jesus Christ, only a few will indeed accept that Law that He made available to them - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - the Law as it is in the Kingdom of God.

.

Giving is sacrifice!

Kobojunkie:
The gates became wide open to what? How? I still don't follow at all.

So that men can be saved!

Kobojunkie:
You are still not saying what God Himself said at all. God Judged the unbeliever Adam, declaring "....till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." - Genesis 3 vs 19

God did not there say only your body will return to dust....no, instead, He declared that man(mind, body, soul) will return to dust when man dies.



You however believe there is an underworld where all men go to whether granted eternal/after life or not, and this idea is against God's own judgement in Genesis 3 vs 19.

Man is not mind, body and soul.
Man is body, soul and spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:23

dontrulee:
.Giving is sacrifice!

Well, God gave but God's hand never really let go so did God really make any sacrifice in this?

I can more closely understand God giving a New Law/Covenant/Agreement but a "sacrifice", not so much since God lost nothing in the deal at all.

dontrulee:
So that men can be saved!

The gates were open from the time of John the Baptist, remember?

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. - Matthew 11 vs 12

dontrulee:

Man is not mind, body and soul.
Man is body, soul and spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:23

Ok.. so man in his entirety was to be reduced back to dust from which it was created. If you believe that, then explain your response below.

dontrulee:
Everyone who dies and have ever died will go the underworld whether they have been granted eternal life or not. What will seperate those that have recieved the gift of eternal life is when the trumpet shall sound, they shall awake and meet the Lord in the air while the remaining shall remain asleep till the judgment day. (Do you understand)

Kobojunkie:
Well, God gave but God's hand never really let go so did God really make any sacrifice in this?

I can more closely understand God giving a New Law/Covenant/Agreement but a "sacrifice", not so much since God lost nothing in the deal at all.

.

Alright, if you think you're right, no problem.

Kobojunkie:
The gates were open from the time of John the Baptist, remember?

.

That the kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force doesn't mean that the gate was open. Do you understand the meaning of the verse?

dontrulee:

Alright, if you think you're right, no problem.

I don't think I am right. I am simply basing my response on what Jesus Christ Himself said is all. He did not say He was a sacrifice nor did He say His death wasn't part of the plan. His life, He freely gave too.

dontrulee:
.That the kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force doesn't mean that the gate was open. Do you understand the meaning of the verse?

You tell me what it means then.

Kobojunkie:
Ok.. so man in his entirety was to be reduced back to dust from which it was created. If you believe that, then explain your response below.

.

You mentioned man as (body, mind and soul).
What's the difference between mind and soul?

Let me explain the concept of the underworld.
When God gave the judgement of death upon Adam, Adam didn't die physically immediately but he died spiritually. Death is simply separation from God(the source and author of Life). So when a man dies ( he dies both physically and spiritually) but since spirits never dies and spirit is a component of man, it means that when a man dies he truly isn't dead and that's why Jesus will say, he is not dead but only asleep because spirits don't die.

The underworld is a place where all men sleep before the judgement arrives (scriptural references coming soon). It's all in the Bible.

dontrulee:
.

Alright Sir. So you feel God will sacrifice is only begotten son just for few people to make heaven? Did Jesus die for a few people or for the whole world? Jesus understood that his mission to die on the cross was to give man the access to eternal life (which is a gift) but unfortunately man has free choice and hence can refuse the gift of eternal life and choose death instead.

The concept of eternal life is senseless to me. Why would someone want to live forever. Nothing lives for ever, not even the Universe.

Why not live your best life you can now and then instead of living for a life that is yet to come?
When I say best life, I don't mean coveting sensory pleasures, but creating happiness to those around you.

dontrulee:
.You mentioned man as (body, mind and soul).
What's the difference between mind and soul?

Let me explain the concept of the underworld.
When God gave the judgement of death upon Adam, Adam didn't die physically immediately but he died spiritually. Death is simply separation from God(the source and author of Life). So when a man dies ( he dies both physically and spiritually) but since spirits never dies and spirit is a component of man, it means that when a man dies he truly isn't dead and that's why Jesus will say, he is not dead but only asleep because spirits don't die.

The underworld is a place where all men sleep before the judgement arrives (scriptural references coming soon). It's all in the Bible.

1. Judging by my own experiences, I believe my soul(my consciousness) links to my mind but since my mind does not always reflect my soul, I say they are not the same.

2. How exactly did Adam supposedly die this spiritual death you claim?

3. God Himself, the one who instituted Death, is said to have defined Death as a return to dust from which we were made and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19. But here you redefine it instead as simply a separation from God. Why?

4. According to the story in Genesis 2 vs 7, man was created of the physical elements of this earth.

Then the Lord God took dust from the ground and made a man. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nose, and the man became a living thing - Genesis 2 vs 7

Jesus Christ confirmed this in John 3 vs 6 while speaking to Nicodemus, who came to Him one night with a question.

The only life people get from their human parents is physical. But the new life that the Spirit gives a person is spiritual. - John 3 vs 6

So how can a man die a spiritual death when he was never born a spirit to begin with?

5. Spirits never die? Can you also include a reference for this as well.

wirinet:

The concept of eternal life is senseless to me. Why would someone want to live forever. Nothing lives for ever, not even the Universe.

Why not live your best life you can now and then instead of living for a life that is yet to come?
When I say best life, I don't mean coveting sensory pleasures, but creating happiness to those around you.

.

True, before a man awakens, he would always want to live a long life. But a fully awakened man is never born and he never dies, he only changes form

Kobojunkie:
1. Judging by my own experiences, I believe my soul(my consciousness) links to my mind but since my mind does not always reflect my soul, I say they are not the same.

Alright, your experience isn't wrong though but there is much more to the subject of consciousness.

2. How exactly did Adam supposedly die this spiritual death you claim? [/quote]

He died when God asked him, Adam where are thou?

3. God Himself, the one who instituted Death, is said to have defined Death as a return to dust from which we were made and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19. But here you redefine it instead as simply a separation from God. Why? [/quote]
That's not the definition of death. When God was giving the instruction to Adam, God said, the day you eat of the fruit thereof, thou shalt surely die. Did Adam die physically immediately?? The death God was referring to was a spiritual death, a cut off from the very source of Life.

4. According to the story in Genesis 2 vs 7, man was created of the physical elements of this earth.


Jesus Christ confirmed this in John 3 vs 6 while speaking to Nicodemus, who came to Him one night with a question. So how can a man die a spiritual death when he was never born a spirit to begin with? [/quote]

Man was created in the spirit first in the image and likeness of God before he was formed from the dust of the ground. There is a difference between create and form. Eve was present in the spirit form in Genesis 1:27 says male and female created him them.

5. Spirits never die? Can you also include a reference for this as well. [/quote]

You don't need a reference for this one. Ever since you've been praying for the death of Satan, has he died? Or has any of the fallen angels died? Spirits don't die (man inclusive)

dontrulee:

Alright, your experience isn't wrong though but there is much more to the subject of consciousness.

2. How exactly did Adam supposedly die this spiritual death you claim?

He died when God asked him, Adam where are thou?

3. God Himself, the one who instituted Death, is said to have defined Death as a return to dust from which we were made and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19. But here you redefine it instead as simply a separation from God. Why?
That's not the definition of death. When God was giving the instruction to Adam, God said, the day you eat of the fruit thereof, thou shalt surely die. Did Adam die physically immediately?? The death God was referring to was a spiritual death, a cut off from the very source of Life.

4. According to the story in Genesis 2 vs 7, man was created of the physical elements of this earth.


Jesus Christ confirmed this in John 3 vs 6 while speaking to Nicodemus, who came to Him one night with a question. So how can a man die a spiritual death when he was never born a spirit to begin with?

Man was created in the spirit first in the image and likeness of God before he was formed from the dust of the ground. There is a difference between create and form. Eve was present in the spirit form in Genesis 1:27 says male and female created him them.

5. Spirits never die? Can you also include a reference for this as well.

You don't need a reference for this one. Ever since you've been praying for the death of Satan, has he died? Or has any of the fallen angels died? Spirits don't die (man inclusive)

Interesting beliefs you have.

I have never prayed for the Death of Satan, nor that of any human so I wouldn't even know if such prayers ever get answered.

dontrulee:
.

Sure sir, I will.

quote me when you do. thank you sir

Kobojunkie:
1. Judging by my own experiences, I believe my soul(my consciousness) links to my mind but since my mind does not always reflect my soul, I say they are not the same.

2. How exactly did Adam supposedly die this spiritual death you claim?

3. God Himself, the one who instituted Death, is said to have defined Death as a return to dust from which we were made and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19. But here you redefine it instead as simply a separation from God. Why?

4. According to the story in Genesis 2 vs 7, man was created of the physical elements of this earth.

Jesus Christ confirmed this in John 3 vs 6 while speaking to Nicodemus, who came to Him one night with a question. So how can a man die a spiritual death when he was never born a spirit to begin with?

5. Spirits never die? Can you also include a reference for this as well.

You like taking words by their literal meeting.

To die spiritually means to be disconnected or cut off from God. Not like the physical natural death that shuts one out of this world. I.e your relationship with God is severed Which is usually as a result of sin like we saw in the case of Adam and Eve whom God shut out of his Garden ( presence).

When you

CharisEleos:

You like taking words by their literal meeting.

To die spiritually means to be disconnected or cut off from God. Not like the physical natural death that shuts one out of this world. I.e your relationship with God is severed Which is usually as a result of sin like we saw in the case of Adam and Eve whom God shut out of his Garden ( presence).

When you

You mean I like to respect the Word of God in this by refusing to taint in with my delusions?

God Himself said that man was born a physical being , so how can a physical being die a spiritual death when it never experienced a spiritual birth to begin with?

You say Adam was cut off from God but chapter 4 of Genesis reveals that never happened at all as God was still in touch with them and even their children. Even after Abel's Death, Eve declared that God had given her another, why? Because she did not believe herself disconnected from God as you claim.

They were shut out of Eden but God was still with them. Even Cain 's relationship with God was not 'severred' and this after he killed his own brother as we read that he had protection wherever he went and he prospered through his suffering.

So that very notion that God abandons man because of His sins reads more like a delusion, born of the doctrines and traditions of men, than scriptural fact.