yea right, doesn't matter if a man looses his heart or liver, or kidney. Man can even smoke cigarette till death for all we care and destroy his lungs by having cancer, as long as he doesn't loose his senses by taking alcohol, then that's ok, what a load of old toss!

Were you directing this at my post? cause you are totally OP

"Thus says the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one says, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." -- Isaiah 65:8

Just as the new wine or sweet juice in the cluster is valued and preserved for use, so God will preserve a remnant of Israel to be blessed in the eternal society under the Messiah. The juice or grapes being called wine while still in the cluster shows that all wine referred to was not necessarily fermented or intoxicating. The fact that God was glorified (John 2:11) in the hearts of the participants of the wedding feast when Jesus turned water into "wine" shows us the kind of wine Jesus created miraculously. I have not seen any people glorify God after binging on intoxicated drinks.

Quran 004.150 Those who deny God and His Messengers, and (those who) wish to separate God from His Messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-

004.151 They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

004.152 To those who believe in God and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

@olaadegbu
Everyone on NL now knows you are notorious for twisting the scriptures, when are you going to stop rubbishing your "faith" on this forum?

OLAADEGBU:

"Thus says the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one says, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." -- Isaiah 65:8

Just as the new wine or sweet juice in the cluster is valued and preserved for use, so God will preserve a remnant of Israel to be blessed in the eternal society under the Messiah.  The juice or grapes being called wine while still in the cluster shows that all wine referred to was not necessarily fermented or intoxicating.  The fact that God was glorified (John 2:11) in the hearts of the participants of the wedding feast when Jesus turned water into "wine" shows us the kind of wine Jesus created miraculously.  I have not seen any people glorify God after binging on intoxicated drinks.

so their hearts were glad enough so as to get drunk with orange juice!?

Na wa o, so God said he will not destroy his servants because no one destroys new wine found in the cluster. What has that got to do with the type of wine Christ turned water into, which would have made people got drunk? (if taken in excess ie.) NEW WINE is different from GOOD/BEST/CHOICE WINE in John 2, which could get people drunk!

I ask, which is CHEAPER? NEW WINE or OLD WINE?

Allta:

so their hearts were glad enough so as to get drunk with orange juice!?

Na wa o, so God said he will not destroy his servants because no one destroys new wine found in the cluster. What has that got to do with the type of wine Christ turned water into, which would have made people got drunk? (if taken in excess ie.) NEW WINE is different from GOOD/BEST/CHOICE WINE in John 2, which could get people drunk!

I ask, which is CHEAPER? NEW WINE or OLD WINE?

That is to tell you that the wine that Jesus supernaturally created was not alcoholic, as you cannot glorify God in a drunken state of stupor.

And for those who are inclined on a mind bender, the Bible prescribes alcohol to you in the following verses below:

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." -- Proverbs 20:1

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts" -- Proverbs 31:6

When someone is in-toxic-ated, he is "poisoned."  The body protests with confused thinking, slurred speech, and impaired vision, memory and judgment.  The victim vomits.  The next day his head throbs with pain, yet he still drinks the poison.  Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been maimed on the roads by drunk drivers, yet the world cannot bring itself to say, "Don't drink."  It can only say "Don't drink and drive."  This is because alcohol is the only enemy man has succeeded in loving.  It destroys his liver, heart and kidneys.  It gives him high blood pressure and causes blood vessels to burst in his skin.  It leads him to beat his wife and abuse his kids.  It will eventually destroy his ability to enjoy the intimacies of the marriage bed.  Yet he still drinks.

He thinks alcohol is a "stimulant."  In truth, it is a suppressant that reduces his inhibitions.  It dulls the naggings of his conscience so that he can commit sexual and other sins that he couldn't indulge in while sober.  A man who gives himself to the demon of alcohol (bacchus) becomes a slave to its addictive properties.  It mocks him.  It steals his dignity.  It takes control of his will.  Whoever is deceived by it (and there are millions) is not wise.  See Proverbs 23:29-35

The New Wine is much better.

"Wherefore be not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things to God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."  -- Ephesians 5:17-20

From the quote above we can surmise that those who don't understand what the will of the Lord is are unwise.  We can see that it is the will of God that all who are born again receive the Spirit of sonship and to have the Holy Spirit in a measure (Rom.8:9,14-16) which makes us glorify the Lord as the disciples did after witnessing the miracle of Cana.

I wouldn't be lying if I said I'm speechless. Verily, wine is a mocker.

I wouldn't be lying if I said I'm speechless. Verily, wine is a mocker.

[size=13pt]No doubt ^alcohol , tobacco, and so forth, are things that a saint must avoid, but sainthood is also a thing that human beings must avoid. . .

Sinful to take the blood of Jesus,count alcohol out of this! [/size]

Olaadegbu, why are you sooo full of crap why must you always quote scriptures out of context? Na real wa for your oh.

Image123:

I wouldn't be lying if I said I'm speechless. Verily, wine is a mocker.

 
You are right, wine, indeed is a mocker.

Do not be Deceived
Proverbs 20:1-15

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." -- Proverbs 20:1

A group of Dutch scientists, according to a research published in April 2009 in the journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, claim that people who drink half a glass of wine a day live four years longer than people who do not drink alcohol.  Their claim is strange and misleading because it failed to highlight the statistics of untimely deaths caused by drunk drivers and suppressed the problem of addiction which has become the hallmark of alcoholism today.

Wine, as portayed in our text has deceived many; it does not only overcome them before they are aware, it promises them certain pleasures which it does not give.  Drunkenness results in pain and mockery and exposes people to reproach, disgrace and derision.  Alcohol sets people to scoff at their companions and even to mock at religion, and all that is good and serious (Hosea 7:5).  Strong drink not only disturbs the brain, it makes a man rage and quarrelsome.

To some college students, heavy drinking that leads to vomitting is not alcohol abuse but simply "having a good time" and being "one of the gang"; this has claimed the lives of many who die through accidents.  Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) is another irreversible condition associated with consumption of alcohol by pregnant women.  Each and every case of FAS is a needless tragedy.  Victims suffer serious physical deformities and often mental deficiencies.  And they suffer these problems for their entire lives.  Numerous other health problems are associated with alcohol consumption, which should be avoided.

Many people find organised programmes very useful in helping them reduce their consumption to moderate levels.  One of such best known programmes is Moderation Managmemt.  For those who need to quit drinking entirely, Jesus remains the only answer.  His blood will miraculously deliver you from alcohol addiction more than any rehabilitaion centre can do.

Your happiness is not in a bottle but in the Blood of the Lamb.

OLAADEGBU:


You are right, wine, indeed is a mocker.

Do not be Deceived
Proverbs 20:1-15

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." -- Proverbs 20:1

A group of Dutch scientists, according to a research published in April 2009 in the journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, claim that people who drink half a glass of wine a day live four years longer than people who do not drink alcohol. Their claim is strange and misleading because it failed to highlight the statistics of untimely deaths caused by drunk drivers and suppressed the problem of addiction which has become the hallmark of alcoholism today.

Wine, as portayed in our text has deceived many; it does not only overcome them before they are aware, it promises them certain pleasures which it does not give. Drunkenness results in pain and mockery and exposes people to reproach, disgrace and derision. Alcohol sets people to scoff at their companions and even to mock at religion, and all that is good and serious (Hosea 7:5). Strong drink not only distrubs the brain, it makes a man rage and quarrelsome.

To some college students, heavy drinking that leads to vomitting is not alcohol abuse but simply "having a good time" and being "one of the gang"; this has claimed the lives of many who die through accidents. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) is another irreversible condition associated with consumption of alcohol by pregnant women. Each and every case of FAS is a needless tragedy. Victims suffer serious physical deformities and often mental deficiencies. And they suffer these problems for their entire lives. Numerous other health problems are associated with alcohol consumption, which should be avoided.

Many people find organised programmes very useful in helping them reduce their consumption to moderate levels. One of such best known programmes is Moderation Managmemt. For those who need to quit drinking entirely, Jesus remains the only answer. His blood will miraculously deliver you from alcohol addiction more than any rehabilitaion centre can do.

Your happiness is not in a bottle but in the Blood of the Lamb.

This is piffle.

Olaadegbu and some others just can't point out the clear truths about some things.

piffle,piffle.

OLAADEGBU:

 
You are right, wine, indeed is a mocker.

Do not be Deceived
Proverbs 20:1-15

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." -- Proverbs 20:1

A group of Dutch scientists, according to a research published in April 2009 in the journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, claim that people who drink half a glass of wine a day live four years longer than people who do not drink alcohol.  Their claim is strange and misleading because it failed to highlight the statistics of untimely deaths caused by drunk drivers and suppressed the problem of addiction which has become the hallmark of alcoholism today.

Wine, as portayed in our text has deceived many; it does not only overcome them before they are aware, it promises them certain pleasures which it does not give.  Drunkenness results in pain and mockery and exposes people to reproach, disgrace and derision.  Alcohol sets people to scoff at their companions and even to mock at religion, and all that is good and serious (Hosea 7:5).  Strong drink not only disturbs the brain, it makes a man rage and quarrelsome.

To some college students, heavy drinking that leads to vomitting is not alcohol abuse but simply "having a good time" and being "one of the gang"; this has claimed the lives of many who die through accidents.  Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) is another irreversible condition associated with consumption of alcohol by pregnant women.  Each and every case of FAS is a needless tragedy.  Victims suffer serious physical deformities and often mental deficiencies.  And they suffer these problems for their entire lives.  Numerous other health problems are associated with alcohol consumption, which should be avoided.

Many people find organised programmes very useful in helping them reduce their consumption to moderate levels.  One of such best known programmes is Moderation Managmemt.  For those who need to quit drinking entirely, Jesus remains the only answer.  His blood will miraculously deliver you from alcohol addiction more than any rehabilitaion centre can do.

Your happiness is not in a bottle but in the Blood of the Lamb.

Honestly and no offence to Olaadegbu, some christians just googlesearch, sorry I meant biblesearch for keywords, extract the verses that looks good to them and fantom pulpit messages from it.

Olaadegbu, you've quoted scriptures where excess "wine" was shown as unacceptable. Have you considered reading passages like: Lev 23:13 where wine[Yayin] was asked to be use as sacrifice to God? Have you studied Numbers 6 where God gave the Nazarites what not to do during period of consecration? particularly verse 3 where God laid out what not to drink? Yayin[wine], Shekar[strong drink], Chomets[vinegar], Mishrah[juice]? Why did God include grape juice not to drink during period of consecration? Have you read Prov 31:4 and considered the difference between Yayin[wine] and Shekar[liquor/strong drink]?
Proverbs 31:4,
NAS version: "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, It is not for kings to drink wine(Yayin), Or for rulers to desire strong drink(Shekar)" - Shekar means intoxicating liquor as in beer.
NLT version: "And it is not for kings, O Lemuel, to guzzle wine. Rulers should not crave liquor." - guzzle means to To drink greedily, excessively or habitually.

You didn't even bother to quote nor explain your understanding of 1 Tim 5:23 "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments." Can you even explain why the wine in Matt 26:29 differs from John 2:9 and Luke 7:34? Why are people in NT being called drunkard or that they get drunk having imbibed juice?
Did you even go through Image123's referenced url at all? http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/2.html

I suggest you start with Image123's referenced url before posting anything next.

Allta:

Did you even go through Image123's referenced url at all? http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/2.html
I suggest you start with Image123's referenced url before posting anything next.

Thanks for bringing Image123's referenced url to my attention.  I have briefly perused it and found out that it has done a brilliant scholarly work when it comes to the kind of wine Christ supernaturally created.  I will refer to some excerpts from the site that I very much agree with below:

The wine of the miracle must have been identical to the wine found in the grape-clusters, because this is the only wine that God produces. "There is not a hint," writes R. A. Torrey, "that the wine He [Christ] made was intoxicating. It was fresh-made wine. New-made wine is never intoxicating. It is not intoxicating until some time after the process of fermentation has set in. Fermentation is a process of decay. There is not a hint that our Lord produced alcohol, which is a product of decay and death. He produced a living wine uncontaminated by fermentation."27

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/4.html

Allta
Why don't you start reading/studying to help yourself against reading to argue. Why is it that of that long long long page, what you could hold unto is that wine is different from strong drink?
One of the reasons why I sent that link was because you were trying to boss it to us that 'yayin or oinos' always means fermented wine. Did you learn that it doesn't always mean so? Did you learn that fermented wine is man's invention? Have you learnt that Jesus is not a glutton and winebiber, that such allegation might be from the 'pit of hell'? Have you learnt what it means to be sober and not given to wine/debauchery. Learn to learn bro. A true disciple learns

@image/olaadegbu
You still have not been able to show us from scripture that it is sinful to consume alcohol, that is apart from the fact that Jesus has been confirmed to be a regular consumer of alcohol in luke7:33:34 no matter how you want to twist that passage.

And you have shown us that Jesus took was a winebiber, rubbish. Did you bother to read that link I sent you and its chapters, like chapter 5(on Jesus and wine). Maybe that might open your eyes.
Most important though,the truth from God is revealed. If you're not open to revelation, scholarship may never do it for you. Good luck sha

@Image
I would live you to your delusions, you are too thoroughly brainwshed and dogmatic to make any sense of christian issues that does not emanate from your deluded pentecostal movement.

Ruined by the Bottle
Proverbs 21:16-31

"He that loves pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loves wine and oil shall not be rich." -- Proverbs 21:17

It will be difficult to quantify the number of families and lives that have been ruined by the love of alcohol.  The bottle has not only succeeded in impoverishing many that love it, but has stolen away joy, peace and harmony in many homes.  Many children have been denied the love, warmth, affection and care expected to be given in the family due to the influence of alcohol.  How many promising men, having great potentials and wonderful careers have had their careers ruined and thrown out of job because they have become slaves to alcohol.  And there are countless number of untimely deaths, young wives turned to early widows and children orphaned at tender age, all due to the bottle! 

Our passage today warns against the practice of abandoning oneself to pleasure.  There are so many people who spend all their time and money seeking for pleasure.  They can be said to be possessed by the party spirit.  While they cannot afford to pay their children's school fees and provide for their basic essentials of life, they can afford the money for expensive party dresses, designer's perfumes and other such vanities.  Some even go to the extent of taking loans just to organise parties.

This is the spirit of the world and must not be found among Christians.  Christians are supposed to be discreet, prudent and wise in all their dealings.  Their lives are to be lived to the glory of the Lord.  We should also bear in mind that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which must not be defiled with alcohol or any other such defilements.

It is not only the Bible that warns today against the danger of alcohol and reckless pleasure seeking.  Government agencies have joined in the campaign.  The wise will take heed and keep off.

Stay alive, keep off the bottle!

I guess our "christians" today are now wiser than Jesus who used to consume alcoholic wine.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you shall be no priest to me: seeing you have forgotten the law of your God.  I will also forget your children.  -- Hosea 4:6

This is perhaps the most commonly quoted verse in the Old Testament, but rarely do you hear it quoted in full like it is above.  People who lack knowledge of God's Law have no knowledge of sin (see Romans 7:7), and those who have no knowledge of sin cannot repent, and if they don't repent, the Bible warns that they will perish (Luke 13:3).

For those who have repented I will advise you to read the hyperlink below that image123 suggested, to get informed on the subject being discussed:

WINE IN THE BIBLE: A BIBLICAL STUDY ON THE USE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES

OLAADEGBU:

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you shall be no priest to me: seeing you have forgotten the law of your God. I will also forget your children. -- Hosea 4:6

Very intersting scripture, do you know how many christians are perishing today becos they don't know the simple truth about tithes as written in the bible. They allow ordinary men to twist scriptures and they have knowledge of only a distorted version of thebible. You would be shocked how much ignorances exists in the church today amongst "christians" and how church leaders are exploiting this ignorance.

OLAADEGBU:

Thanks for bringing Image123's referenced url to my attention. I have briefly perused it and found out that it has done a brilliant scholarly work when it comes to the kind of wine Christ supernaturally created. I will refer to some excerpts from the site that I very much agree with below:

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/4.html

Wow! it has been a great journey to find the truth about these matters and that is how it is meant to be to search for the truth and acknowledge the truth, not what we think is true, but we dont have to do this by calling each other names or being abusive. please whatever the case lets keep it clean. image123 i hope you would go thru the following.

First, if Alcohol was outrightly bad in all ramification and in whatever quanitity, i dont think the scriptures in so many places be talking about avoiding excesses or staying a long time with wine. It would have be far simpler to say, Dont drink wine or intoxicating liquor and anyone would does would be face these consequences, but in severall places, it just condemns drunkenness and over indulgence in wine.

Also if the taking of alcohol is wrong outrightly, how then would you explain the following scriptures:

Deuteronomy 14:22-26 (King James Version)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26AND THOU SHALT BESTOW THAT MONEY FOR WHATSOEVER THY SOUL LUSTETH AFTER, FOR OXEN, OR FOR SHEEP, OR FOR WINE, OR FOR STRONG DRINK, OR FOR WHATSOEVER THY SOUL DESIRETH: AND THOU SHALT EAT THERE BEFORE THE LORD THY GOD, AND THOU SHALT REJOICE, THOU, AND THINE HOUSEHOLD,

Isaiah 25:6 (King James Version)
6And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. (please find out what a lee is).

Numbers 28:7 (King James Version)
7And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.

Please i would like to have your honest comments about these.

@rabzy
Don't bother with your questions image and his fellow cohorts hae been asked this and several other questions which point to the fact that alcohol consumption in christianity is NOT sinful, but they kep running from this glaring facts and binging silly insinuations that can be twisted to mean what ever they want it to mean. In image and Olaadegbu's brand of christianity, any ting unteisted is not acceptable to them. They only accept what their pastrs have twisted the scriptures to be saying and not the glaring truths there in.

About the issue of new wine, that Jesus's wine was new and therefore not intoxicating. well, this is what i got from the scriptures.

Hosea 4:11 (New King James Version)
The Idolatry of Israel
   11 “ Harlotry, wine, and new wine enslave the heart.
Hosea 4:11 (English Standard Version)
11whoredom, wine, and new wine,
  which(A) take away the understanding.
11 to prostitution;
      old wine and new wine
      take away their understanding. (Today’s new international version)
Hosea 4:11 (King James Version)
11Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

In the URL new wine and sweet wine was portrayed as non-intoxicating, the above shows that the new wine could also intoxicate.
Micah 6:15 (King James Version)
15Thou shalt sow, but thou shalt not reap; thou shalt tread the olives, but thou shalt not anoint thee with oil; and sweet wine, but shalt not drink wine.
The verse above was talking about the calamity that would befall Judah for her apostasy and that is all their efforts to achive success would be half-accomplised and they would never be satisfied. Part of the curse and punishment is that they would attempt to make wine (success), but would end up with sweet wine (half-success).

In Leviticus 10:9, it was expressly stated that Aaron and his sons were not to take wine when they officiate, the instructions that were being given to Aaron were pertaining to his actions while officiating. if taking alcohol was a sin, 1. it would not have been necessary to specifically state it as part of the instructions, but because it was not a sin, they could easily have thought it would be right to take it while officiating, therefore it was necessary to alert them to this, the same applies to Lemuel the King, he was officiating as a king under God's arrangement, so he needed to avoid alcohol during such important state matters.

As for the Nazirites, the law at Numbers 6: 3
6 And Jehovah spoke further to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and you must say to them, ‘In case a man or a woman takes a special vow to live as a Naz′i·rite to Jehovah, 3 he should keep away from wine and intoxicating liquor. He should not drink the vinegar of wine or the vinegar of intoxicating liquor, nor drink any liquid made from grapes, nor eat grapes either fresh or dried. 4 All the days of his Naziriteship he should not eat anything at all that is made from the wine vine, from the unripe grapes to the skins.

From the above, we can see that there was distinction made between wine/intoxicating liquor and also liquid from grapes, or even grapes themselves, as suggested from the that url, liquid from grapes may not be intoxicating, but a nazirite was not allowed to take it. But on completion of his naziritic vows, he is free from all naziritic restrictions, in verse 20, the bible specifically say he could take wine, if he so wishes.
''18 “‘And the Naz′i·rite must shave the head of his Naziriteship at the entrance of the tent of meeting, and he must take the hair of the head of his Naziriteship and put it upon the fire that is under the communion sacrifice. 19 And the priest must take a boiled shoulder from the ram and one unfermented ring-shaped cake out of the basket, and one unfermented wafer, and put them upon the palms of the Naz′i·rite after he has had the sign of his Naziriteship shaved off. 20 And the priest must wave them to and fro as a wave offering before Jehovah. It is something holy for the priest, along with the breast of the wave offering and the leg of the contribution. And afterward the Naz′i·rite may drink wine.. this must be the wine (alcoholic) that he was first restricted from taking and not just the grape juice, every restrictions is gone including strong drinks.

In Jeremiah 35:12 -16, the rechabites were not because they drank no wine and built no houses as instructed by their forefathers, but God was praising them because they listened to the voice of a man for centuries and stuck to it, whereas the jews could not even keep the word of God for a few years.

Also in acts 2:12-16, where the apostles were speaking in tongue and accused by the people of being drunk, Apostle Peter defended the apostles not by denying that they dont take alcohol or pursue the argument of abstinence which would have been the most obvious line of argument and use the opportunity to denounce alcohol, but he argued that they could not have been drunk because it was too early to out drinking, the whole 120 of them could not have been drunk so early early in the morning. That would have been a very odd way of defending yourself if you actually dont take alcohol. If someone said i beat up my wife, i wont start saying am peaceful in nature and how could i beat up my wife, when i dont actually have a wife. The first argument would have been well, i dont have a wife.

OLAADEGBU:

Thanks for bringing Image123's referenced url to my attention. I have briefly perused it and found out that it has done a brilliant scholarly work when it comes to the kind of wine Christ supernaturally created. I will refer to some excerpts from the site that I very much agree with below:

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/4.html

Well olaadegbu, there is another url i think you should check, that i believe is far more scholarstic and in fact is a reply to the person who composed your URL. it is also a very interesting article.

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p188.html.

I really thank God for information technology and theresources it provides, very soon it would become very difficult for chalartans to twist scripture and force it down someone's throat cos every one wld have access to and knowledge of the truth.

First, there is nothing like alcohol 'in the Bible', lets not forget that. That's settled. I want to believe that what you refer to as alcohol is the man-made, fermented yeast induced wine i.e 'in the Bible'. We other 'wines' outside like stout, harp, shepe and co.
What I see in 'so many places in scripture' is condemnation of wine because it makes one drunk, not condemnation of drunkeness only,sparing the wine. Wine is a mocker, never forget that.
It's funny that people run to the OT for permission of their indulgences, but when real issues come up, they claim freedom from law and OT (kunle is a strong example of that fickle nature).
Lee is shelter, what are you infering/implying from Isaiah 25v6? Try to check commentaries on it or read it in other versions. Abi the other versions kill your inference?

What do you want me to comment about in Numbers 28v7, that place says 'drink offering' twice. You wan chop drink offering or burnt offering? Some people have tried to knowingly/unknowingly mislead us to think Jesus was an alcoholic, a winebiber, one who loved intoxicating wine. That's why we've talked about wine NOT ALWAYS refering to intoxication.
That Jesus took ALCOHOL is based on shaky dreamy probability. Do you have an idea of the volume of wine that was to be taken at passover/Supper? Do you have an idea of the volume of wine that was produced in cana. Common, Jesus is the Holy Son of God, not nigerian breweries. He will never 'lead others into temptation', it's not in Him. It is blasphemy to assert so.
I just loaded and saved your page rabzy, I'll read it. It's good if you went through the previous link as well and the 'Jesus and wine' chapter link. Regards

Image123:

First, there is nothing like alcohol 'in the Bible', lets not forget that. That's settled. I want to believe that what you refer to as alcohol is the man-made, fermented yeast induced wine i.e 'in the Bible'. We other 'wines' outside like stout, harp, shepe and co.
What I see in 'so many places in scripture' is condemnation of wine because it makes one drunk, not condemnation of drunkeness only,sparing the wine. Wine is a mocker, never forget that.
It's funny that people run to the OT for permission of their indulgences, but when real issues come up, they claim freedom from law and OT (kunle is a strong example of that fickle nature).
Lee is shelter, what are you infering/implying from Isaiah 25v6? Try to check commentaries on it or read it in other versions. Abi the other versions kill your inference?

'What I see in 'so many places in scripture' is condemnation of wine because it makes one drunk, not condemnation of drunkeness only,sparing the wine. Wine is a mocker, never forget that'.

Well consider the following verses in the NT, and tell me honestly it condemns the wine.
1 Peter 4:3 (King James Version)
3For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1 Peter 4:3 (New International Version - UK)
3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do— living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry
1 Peter 4:3 (American Standard Version)

3 For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries:
1 Peter 4:3 (New Living Translation)
3 You have had enough in the past of the evil things that godless people enjoy—their immorality and lust, their feasting and drunkenness and wild parties, and their terrible worship of idols
New world translation
. 3 For the time that has passed by is sufficient for YOU to have worked out the will of the nations when YOU proceeded in deeds of loose conduct, lusts, excesses with wine, revelries, drinking matches, and illegal idolatries.
Galatians 5:21 (New Living Translation)
21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:21 (New International Version - UK)
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:21 (King James Version)
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 5:11 (King James Version)
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Corinthians 5:11 (Contemporary English Version)
11I was talking about your own people who are immoral or greedy or worship idols or curse others or get drunk or cheat. Don't even eat with them.

How can the scriptures be talking about excesses with wine or drunkenness, when you are not suppose to touch it at all. its like scriptures saying dont lie too much so that you wont be caught, when it meant dont lie, or saying dont commit too much iilicit sex so that you would not spoil yor reputation/get AIDS or hurt your wife when it actually meant dont lie. that would be absurd and that is why the scriptures said 'thou shall not lie' thou shall not commit adultery'. why cant it say 'thou shall not drink' which is very very available and can be easily abuse.












If you look at the verses, you can see that it condemns partying in excess, feasting in excess and drinking in excess.

Image123:

First, there is nothing like alcohol 'in the Bible', lets not forget that. That's settled. I want to believe that what you refer to as alcohol is the man-made, fermented yeast induced wine i.e 'in the Bible'. We other 'wines' outside like stout, harp, shepe and co.
What I see in 'so many places in scripture' is condemnation of wine because it makes one drunk, not condemnation of drunkeness only,sparing the wine. Wine is a mocker, never forget that.
It's funny that people run to the OT for permission of their indulgences, but when real issues come up, they claim freedom from law and OT (kunle is a strong example of that fickle nature).
Lee is shelter, what are you infering/implying from Isaiah 25v6? Try to check commentaries on it or read it in other versions. Abi the other versions kill your inference?

Lees not lee, according to encarta dictionary lee is sediment that settles in wine or other alcoholic beverages during fermentation
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Sediment settling during fermentation, especially in wine; dregs. [Middle English lies, pl. of lie, from Old French, from Medieval Latin lia, ,
www.thefreedictionary.com/lees

Now let me show you the Isaiah 25:6 from other translations.

Isaiah 25:6 (New King James Version)
6 And in this mountain
The LORD of hosts will make for all people
A feast of choice pieces,
A feast of wines on the lees,
Of fat things full of marrow,
Of well-refined wines on the lees.
Isaiah 25:6 (American Standard Version)
6 And in this mountain will Jehovah of hosts make unto all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
Isaiah 25:6 (New Living Translation)

6 In Jerusalem,[a] the Lord of Heaven’s Armies
will spread a wonderful feast
for all the people of the world.
It will be a delicious banquet
with clear, well-aged wine and choice meat.

Isaiah 25:6 (English Standard Version)

6(A) On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples
a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine,
(B) of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.

Isaiah 25:6 (Young's Literal Translation)
6And made hath Jehovah of Hosts, For all the peoples in this mount, A banquet of fat things, a banquet of preserved things, Fat things full of marrow, preserved things refined.
Isaiah 25:6 (New International Version)
6 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines
New World translation
And Jehovah of armies will certainly make for all the peoples, in this mountain, a banquet of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of [wine kept on] the dregs, of well-oiled dishes filled with marrow, of [wine kept on] the dregs, filtered.

Now What does that tell us, or would refuse to take from God wine kept on the dregs, wine on lees, aged wine, or would you like peter call what God has cleaned unclean. i would not and i pray i am worthy to take such fine wine from him.

Well, someone could choose not to drink wine, fine and good but it would be wrong to condemn those who do except they abuse it, which the bible warn against. Paul in fact said we should not allow anyone to judge us on what we drink, Jesus said it is what comes out of a mouth that defiles it not what goes in. Paul practised celibacy and he encouraged others who wants do plenty in god's world to be like him, because they would not be distracted by their spouse and we know how dangerous that can be, but he never said we must be celibate, he cant.

When the apostles were accused of being drunk why did peter went thru the round about way and said, well it is not drinking time, its an odd hour to drink and so how can we be drunk, vis-avis well you cant find sellers of wine/beer at this odd hour so we are not drunk when he could easily say we DONT DRINk, Its a sin and you all know christians dont drink .

Please this is a simple truth, Alcohol/beer/wine in excess is bad, biblically, medically, but moderate drinking is okay, also biblically, medically. Billions of people drink Most dont get drunk or else we would be picking them up by the dozens on the streets and in social functions, a lot of people are social drinkers, they drink in social gatherings and take a little, i strongly believe Jesus was of this category. Even if you watch a beer parlor, how many people walk out tipsy or drunk, do a survey, what percentage takes excess alcohol in those places, a lot of them go their with friends take a bottle or two with pepper soup and fish, chat and talk and leave.

So why are some demonizing it, so as to feel good.

Rabzy,
Talking about wine, you said that the scriptures 'IN SO MANY PLACES' is talking about avoiding excesses. No sir, most places wine is referred to in the negative. Unfortunately, you've failed to see that the word wine(/its equivalent in other languages) was used to describe both fermented and unfermented drinks. The juice of the grape(commonly called wine in scripture) could be taken but not in excess. These people were not as scientifically inclined as many are today. Unfermented wine wasn't full proof immune to fermentation. There was a thin line and ALl jews were careful not to take wine in excess. They were obviously learning from mistakes of others before them. They were not presumptous and their history had no respect for old wine,which was widely agreed to be intoxicating. It's the same lesson you should learn. Don't desire alcohol, abstain from all appearances of evil.