His records at Athletico Madrid and for the National team are very unimpressive

Do u think Miroslav Klose is a top striker?

Depends on where he is playing. He led the lines at Kaiserslautern, Werder bremen with Klasnic and with the national team.

At Bayern he dropped behind Luca Toni who is the bigger threat physically

Klose is flexible he can play as a top striker and he has the off the ball skills and unselfishness to make him a good support striker

dayokanu:


At Bayern he dropped behind Luca Toni who is the bigger threat physically

Why doesn't it matter that Torres plays behind Villa for Spain, and assists in some of Villa's goals. It seems u realize that playing as ss reduces your goal haul considerably. . .

dayokanu:

Klose is flexible he can play as a top striker and he has the off the ball skills and unselfishness to make him a good support striker

Torres too. So much that he frees up Villa a whole lot. Using Torres's goal numbers for Spain against him is grossly unfair IMO. Especially when Spain is doing so well. U're pretty much saying they would be a much better team without him. I think that is kinda ridiculous, and doubt that u sincerely believe that.

Rather its the other way round, Torres plays as the Big man upfront and Villa behind him.

The norm is to use the bigger guy, the Six foot plus guy as the guy upfront and the shorter guy with better running and nimble skills behind him.

It was due to his ineptitude at scoring for NT that makes Villa take the scoring gauntlet.

Like Rooney plays behind Heskey but scores more than heskey cos Heskey is just a waste of human flesh

dayokanu:

Rather its the other way round, Torres plays as the Big man upfront and Villa behind him.

The norm is to use the bigger guy, the Six foot plus guy as the guy upfront and the shorter guy with better running and nimble skills behind him.

It was due to his ineptitude at scoring for NT that makes Villa take the scoring gauntlet.

Like Rooney plays behind Heskey but scores more than heskey cos Heskey is just a waste of human flesh

When Spain is defending Villa drops back to make up numbers in midfield and they leave Torres up front as a target man. Otherwise Villa plays CF and Torres drifts wide. Either ways, Torres works his ass off for villa, and Spain.

There are lots of spain clips on youtube. Here are  few. Watch their positioning.



[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAOCfPAC3jU&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG-e1nqGcvc&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOa_XfgUKY&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyVRwwqddyM&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]


Using Torres's performances for Spain as a strike against him is extremely low IMO. He plays very well for spain, and that Villa does most of the scoring in no way shows that Torres does not do the job expected of him.

Rather its the other way round, Torres plays as the Big man upfront and Villa behind him.

The norm is to use the bigger guy, the Six foot plus guy as the guy upfront and the shorter guy with better running and nimble skills behind him.

It was due to his ineptitude at scoring for NT that makes Villa take the scoring gauntlet.

Like Rooney plays behind Heskey but scores more than heskey cos Heskey is just a waste of human flesh

i have said this thing here many times on this forum

ignorance isnt bliss abeg

thank u jare paddy

tkb417:

i have said this thing here many times on this forum

ignorance isnt bliss abeg

thank u jare paddy

That isn't accurate. Watch those clips I posted, and feel free to search on youtube and post any videos that show what u are saying is true. The technology is available. . . all this unfounded claims na story.

shut up, torres is no good than drogba

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Drogba is a better scorer, Torres is a better player

Whats better in Torres that his NT has to drop him to win the World cup.

How many did he score playing as a striker behind the most talented midfield in the world?

Torres only looks good in the EPL I have said that time and again

Torres wasnt fit for the world cup. He always does well for Spain. He scored 3 goals in 4 matches in 2006 world cup

Compare his records with that of other spanish strikers like Raul, Morientes and Villa.

Can you tell me any regular striker for a top National team who has 24goals in 80 games

Mind you Villa who got his debut later and has fewer games has almost double the goals 43 goal in 65games

Morientes who striked for a not as good midfield had 27 goals in 47 games.

Of all top National team strikers Torres has the worst goal per game ratio for his NT Explain!!

Tell me where Torres has been good outside Liverpool

.

@dayokanu
Torres is only 24 going on 25 and has not really peaked. Villa is 28 or 29. Not many strikers have an impressive record at that stage of their career. Raul has 44 goals in over a 100 caps(not too impressive compared to Villa) but that doesnt mean he isnt good. Besides, the midfield under which Raul and Morientes played was equally as good as the current Spain midfield with Valeron, Baraja, Joaquin(more skillfull than anyone in the current Spain squad) and Mendieta. Dont forget that Villa and Raul were first choice penalty takers unlike Torres

Medjai,

Torres is already 26yrs old and debuted for the national team way before Villa at least 2yrs before Villa (28yrs) and he has played more games.

Also Villa plays behind Torres and its baffling that Villa consistently scores more than Torres.

Moreover you cant compare the midfield which Morientes and raul played for vs this current one. Xavi and Iniesta are top 5 if not 3 midfielders in the world today. None of Valeron, Baraja, Joaquin or Mendieta was top 3-5 in the world maybe Mendieta for a brief while.

Regarding penalties, Villa scored 5 world cup goals Torres scored 0 How many of Villa goals were penalties to excuse Torres horrendous return.

In Euro 2008, David Villa had 4 goals despite missing the Finals and Torres had 2, How many of Villa goals were penalties?

I am also expecting you to give me any striker who plays for a top National side that has Torres terrible goalscoring return

Torres has 24 goals in 80 apperances and thats 0.3 goals per match which is almost on the same level as Thierry Henry's 51 goals in 123 caps(0.41) and Raul's 44 goals in 102 caps(0.41).
Torres is not always used as the point man. Sometimes he plays behind Villa depending on the formation and opposition. He assits Villa alot.

0.3 is wayyy inferior to 0.41 thats like a 0.11 difference.


Most time Raul played behing Morientes and Henry behind Anelka, Trezeguet and Duggary/Guivarch.

Its due to Torres sterility infront of goal that made the coach to draft him elsewhere and ultimately drop him from the starting line-up

Imagine In a World cup semi final Torres didnt feature for 80 mins and in the final Torres didnt feature for the first 100 mins

I'm sure Henry and Raul couldnt manage 0.3 goal per match at 26.
Roy Maakay only scored 6 goals for Holland in 45 appearances. The same Maakay was the Golden Boot winner in 2002/2003 and he played in Euro 2000 and 2004. My point is it doesnt matter how much goals you chalk up for your national team. If its by national team performances then Robinho can be said to be the world's best footballer. Ronaldo's goal against NK was his first for Portugal in 18 months. The same Ronaldo scored 26 goals in 29 apps in his debut season with Real Madrid. Does that mean Ronaldo isnt world class?

You mean Henry and Raul couldnt manage 0.3 goals per match after 80 caps?

Thierry Henry played 7 Major tournaments for france and No other French player outscored him in 6 of those tournaments, The only exception was in South Africa where he was not a starter

Roy Makaay at any point in time was not a starter for the Dutch NT. He was always a sub. Moreover Ronaldo is not the top striker for his Portuguese NT like Torres.

Again, which other REGULAR TOP STRIKER for a top national team has an abysmall record comparable to Torres

Makaay fell down the pecking order because he was poor for Holland. He was given his chance but just wasnt delivering. He fell behind a just emerging Van Nilsterooy, an average and aging Kluivert and an equally aging Bergkamp. He could have easily replaced any of them. Meanwhile, Makaay was consistently notching over 20 goals for club right from his days at Deportivo till he left for Bayern.
Ronaldo scored 42 goals for United playing from the flanks which is the same position he plays for Portugal but only recently broke an 18 months goal drought for Portugal.
If Torres was unproductive for Spain, wouldnt he have been dropped? Under Aragones, he was the preferred striker even though he was outscored by Villa(which is partly why he has more caps than Villa). He could have been dropped for Llorente, Guiza(pichichi winner for 2008) or Soldado but he wont be dropped because he is too good. Euro 2012 qualifiers will soon start and Torres will get called up again

^^ Tell me what period of time Makaay was the starting striker for Holland, For someone to fall at least he must have been in a high position before.

France 98 to Euro 2000 It was Kluivert and Bergkamp, 2004 to 2006 it was Nistelrooy so when was Makaay top striker for Holland. He never had the chance because others were better or more established strikers were available even Hasselbaink and Van Hooijdonk had more chances than Makaay had.

Didnt you see evidence of Del Bosque dropping Torres at this last world cup? He was more of a liability to the NT strikeforce, he started the first few games but after a while the coach resorted to bringing him in the later minutes.

How can the top striker be dropped for crucial World cup semi finals and Final matches?

Do you seriously think Ronaldo is the top striker for his NT?

Makaay made 45 appearances for Holland, they all cant be substitute appearances. At least he must have made 20-25 starts(which is more than adequate for him to have proven himself). Why would he be behind Kluivert and others when he was clearly Holland's best striker during that period(2000-2004)? He was given his chance perhaps in qualifiers and friendlies and apparently he didnt impress.
If Henry at 33 in 2010 and after 13 years of international football; 4 world cups, 3 Euro Championships, 1 confed. cup and countless numbers of qualifiers and friendlies has 51 goals in 123 appearances. At 26(2003), he wouldnt have scored 28 goals for France.
Besides, Torres could have added to his tally if he took penalties. Villa must have added between 5-8 goals to his tally via penalties. He scored a penalty against Estonia in the WCQ and France in 06 WC, and these're the ones i can remember.
If Torres has 80 caps at 26, it shows that he has been very relevant for Spain. His time with the NT must have dated back to the days of Raul, Morientes, Tristan, De la Pena and one hit wonders like Negredo. They are all gone now but Torres has remained a constant and hardly ever gets benched. The only reason why he was benched at the WC was because he was unfit and playing him wouldnt have helped him or the team. When Spain were 2-0 down to USA in the confed. cup semi's, he played all 90 mins. Torres' place in the NT is sacrosanct.

Makaay made 45 appearances for Holland, they all cant be substitute appearances. At least he must have made 20-25 starts(which is more than adequate for him to have proven himself). Why would he be behind Kluivert and others when he was clearly Holland's best striker during that period(2000-2004)? He was given his chance perhaps in qualifiers and friendlies and apparently he didnt impress.

Between 2000-2004 There was a Dutch striker called Ruud Van Nistelrooy

He was CL top goalscorer in 2002 and 2003, He won EPL golden boot in 2003, Nistelrooy scored 110 goals in 3 seasons between that time frame now tell me how Roy Makaay was hollands best striker in that period.

I watched Hollands Euro 2000 and makaay didnt start one single game, In Euro 2004, He didnt start one single game. I didnt follow all the qualifiers so I cant tell you if he started or not

If Henry at 33 in 2010 and after 13 years of international football; 4 world cups, 3 Euro Championships, 1 confed. cup and countless numbers of qualifiers and friendlies has 51 goals in 123 appearances. At 26(2003), he wouldnt have scored 28 goals for France.
Besides, Torres could have added to his tally if he took penalties. Villa must have added between 5-8 goals to his tally via penalties. He scored a penalty against Estonia in the WCQ and France in 06 WC, and these're the ones i can remember.

As at when Henry was age 26 yr 2003, He had 52 caps and has scored 22 goals. Thats a ration of 0.42 goals per match. Given the fact that Henry played behind Anelka, Trezeguet and Duggary in this period and was also not the penalty taker of choice for his NT

International
(Correct as of 19 November 2009)[88]
National team Season Apps Goals Assists
France 1997–98 10 3 1
1998–99 1 0 0
1999–00 11 5 2
2000–01 8 2 1
2001–02 9 2 1
2002–03 13 10 7
2003–04 12 5 6
2004–05 7 2 1
2005–06 15 7 3
2006–07 6 3 3
2007–08 10 6 1
2008–09 9 3 1
2009–10 7 3 2
Total 118 51 29

If Torres has 80 caps at 26, it shows that he has been very relevant for Spain. His time with the NT must have dated back to the days of Raul, Morientes, Tristan, De la Pena and one hit wonders like Negredo. They are all gone now but Torres has remained a constant and hardly ever gets benched. The only reason why he was benched at the WC was because he was unfit and playing him wouldnt have helped him or the team. When Spain were 2-0 down to USA in the confed. cup semi's, he played all 90 mins. Torres' place in the NT is sacrosanct

You said Torres outlived Morientes, Raul, Tristan De La pena , Is it not only natural since he is at least 5 yrs younger than the youngest of them?

Did the team not recognise that he was injured when he was played for the group games and he kept messing up? Why was it that it was in the key semi and finals that he was benched?

Torres was a major doubt for the world cup. He only made the team because he scored against Poland in one of the warm up matches and they felt maybe he could shrug off his injury. He didnt start the first game against Switzerland, he came on as a 2nd half sub for David Silva. In the 2nd game against Honduras, he was substituted early in the 2nd half for Mata. He didnt play full 90 mins in any of the matches. He was playing badly and obviously unfit and his drop from the starting XI; even though he didnt the first game, was imminent and it eventually came in the semi-final.
One would have expected Morientes to do well at Liverpool since he has a better NT record than Torres. Morientes; 29 at the time, scored 12 goals in 65 appearances in the same Liverpool where Torres has setting and resetting records.

I am still waiting for a TOP STRIKER for a NT who has such abysmal records

Torres only looks Good in Liverpool elsewhere he has been very average