luckyCO:


No matter what your analysis intends,anything done outside Holy Spirit is not accepted by God that why Christ died such that he will purchase us as member of God's household. Gal 2:20,it is no longer I but Christ living His life in me.
If you recieve Holy Ghost,the spirit of Christ,your whole being will change such to enable you do what pleases the Father.
God decides how he gives you Holy Ghost,it can be by anything He wants which does not matter.

With all due respect to you friend, you are the one choosing what to believe in scripture and deny others, your belief system is twisted, there's no analysis here, just what scripture says,
Verse singling of gal 2:20 doesn't help you.... the fact that Paul made that statement doesn't take away from the hierarchy of the physical Church after all he himself instructed Timothy and Titus to ordain church leaders in every town...
Or help your lies that we are spirits only...

TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE AS A WHOLE, STOP DOING VERSE SINGLING AND PICK WHAT FITS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM

easymancfc:

What makes you a member of Christ body are:
Repentenace,Baptism,Holy Ghost baptism and santification.

You can see that from amongs those assemblies spiritual churches are formed, individual and personal to join the body of Christ and He is known of them.


Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

the point is, these 3000 people were added to a physical body of believers not just a spiritual one..

FOR US ITS BOTH, NOT EITHER SPIRITUAL OR PHYSICAL


ACCORDING TO THE WHOLE SCRIPTURE, THE CHURCH IS BOTH A PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL COMMUNITY OF BELIEVERS WITH CHRIST AS ITS HEAD

At what point is someone added to the body Christ is building? You must have recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost before you become part of that body.
Book of Ezekiel outlines step/process through which someome must pass through before he/she is added: ezekiel 36:24,25,26 then 27 before you are added.

The issue is that catholic church waters salvation to the point they have placed it under man's care. Such lies still exist in pieta like "say rosary everyday you will die by predestination,mary will ensure you will not goto hell"

What happened at pentecost is a call to the body of Christ which is spiritual. It take Holy Ghost for someone to repent and forsake Jewish religion for Christ at the risk of your life.
Yes you see 3000 people physically but the church building is spiritual. God prepares us through many trials such that we will be qualified to be part of that building (his body) which is not physical but spiritual for safe keeping.

If you say that the building christ is building is physical tell me the location and address physically and I will believe you?

easymancfc:


With all due respect to you friend, you are the one choosing what to believe in scripture and deny others, your belief system is twisted, there's no analysis here, just what scripture says,
Verse singling of gal 2:20 doesn't help you.... the fact that Paul made that statement doesn't take away from the hierarchy of the physical Church after all he himself instructed Timothy and Titus to ordain church leaders in every town...
Or help your lies that we are spirits only...

TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE AS A WHOLE, STOP DOING VERSE SINGLING AND PICK WHAT FITS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM

The bible said in matt 23:8, that we all are equal before God no hierachy.
Whatever gift God has given to you you profit withal. Once you are acting by the Holy Ghost,the only person that can challenge you is children of the bond women.

We are asked to make deceiples of all nation that is what you see apostle paul doing.
The presense of Holy Ghost brings humility no believer ever sees another believe as inferiour but you do your works according to the grace God has given you,no string attached.

Titus never went and set up braches and name them paul ministry neither did he save every sunday offering and send to apostle paul nor become pauls slave after have recieved salvation. We are all co-workers in the vineyard of God.

easymancfc:


With all due respect to you friend, you are the one choosing what to believe in scripture and deny others, your belief system is twisted, there's no analysis here, just what scripture says,
Verse singling of gal 2:20 doesn't help you.... the fact that Paul made that statement doesn't take away from the hierarchy of the physical Church after all he himself instructed Timothy and Titus to ordain church leaders in every town...
Or help your lies that we are spirits only...

TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE AS A WHOLE, STOP DOING VERSE SINGLING AND PICK WHAT FITS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM

I have never said we are spirit,I said we are spirit being and the Church Christ made mention in matt 16 is spiritual it is not physical why for safe keeping.

easymancfc:


With all due respect to you friend, you are the one choosing what to believe in scripture and deny others, your belief system is twisted, there's no analysis here, just what scripture says,
Verse singling of gal 2:20 doesn't help you.... the fact that Paul made that statement doesn't take away from the hierarchy of the physical Church after all he himself instructed Timothy and Titus to ordain church leaders in every town...
Or help your lies that we are spirits only...

TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE AS A WHOLE, STOP DOING VERSE SINGLING AND PICK WHAT FITS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM

I try all I can to stand of the reason why am sharing my line of thought with you. I wont be diverted because am sure of what am saying the very topic in question.

But call me anything but your greatest shock will be that you wont see roman catholic church in heaven neither are you saved by being a member. God doesnt save gentiles by community but by individual person.

luckyCO:


I just wanted to know which kingdom you are talking about and you have reached conclusion.
Since you have made peter your kingdom prime minister,fine for you but mine is Christ,case closed!

I don hear, your KING is the prime minister of your kingdom.
isnt that ridiculous to you? I guess it isn't, you have hardened your heart against the truth.

Ubenedictus:
I don hear, your KING is the prime minister of your kingdom.
isnt that ridiculous to you? I guess it isn't, you have hardened your heart against the truth.

You are the one removing Christ such that you will position peter.
The story of Joseph is also talking about Christ.
In the millennial reign ,christ is king,prime minister,judge,ruler etc.
Peter is a co-worker in the kingdom please.

easymancfc:


Romans 14:17, doesn't take anything away from the church,
I don't know where you get the drink part from, but a discipline to abstinence from meat, doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is not in the church or that the church doesn't preach righteousness ,
Stop making the Bible say what it doesn't... that's not the context is saying
the context is, if eating meat or drinking will make another stumble, then don't eat it

I never meant so either by my interpretation.

Of course Holy Ghost have left the church long time ago you know that and left you with his annointing. A church that displays a dead pope john paul ii and people gather to pour praises to honour the dead there is no way Holy Ghost will be there. Devil wanted to carry the body of Moses and stage it such that people will dispise God by its worship less that Micheal took it you would seen the body of moses kept somewhere embarmed in a glassy confin today and people will gather to worship him. Of course someone who saw Gods figure. When he couldnt get moses body he(devil) elevated the serpent moses used in the wilderness and people worshiped it and Gods anger was against them.
Same with body of Mary,had God not hid her body it is only God would have known what catholic would have been doing on her grave side!

You need to see what they do to the cross elevated in rome that it was the exact cross christ was killed on so it must be that holy and people do all manner of things there. Rome is far,take a trip to monastary Enugu you will see what people do with articles on the station of the cross upon it is written on it dont touch. You will understand what is happening in rome or what would have happened if they managed see the body of Mary.

What a physical church!

So tell me why God should not be angry with roman religion?

luckyCO:


You are the one removing Christ such that you will position peter.
The story of Joseph is also talking about Christ.
In the millennial reign ,christ is king,prime minister,judge,ruler etc.
Peter is a co-worker in the kingdom please.

OH, christ is d prime minister of his own kingdom abi? An then he gave the keys to peter? An the bible says in Is 22:22 that the one who receive the key of d kingdom is the prime minister?

how does that sound?

Ubenedictus:
OH, christ is d prime minister of his own kingdom abi? An then he gave the keys to peter? An the bible says in Is 22:22 that the one who receive the key of d kingdom is the prime minister?

how does that sound?

That whom you know Christ to be!
You can never live beyond whom you know Christ to be.
The kingdom of the Father given to the Son,how about that?

The only person I know that has key that once he opens noone closes and when he closes noone opens is Christ.

For me that verse is pointing to Christ.
Every story in the old testament is talking about Christ and his church else you miss the understanding.

easymancfc:


Romans 14:17, doesn't take anything away from the church,
I don't know where you get the drink part from, but a discipline to abstinence from meat, doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is not in the church or that the church doesn't preach righteousness ,
Stop making the Bible say what it doesn't... that's not the context is saying
the context is, if eating meat or drinking will make another stumble, then don't eat it

Catholic in general prefer meat(roman dogma and her teachings) and drink(roman interpretation of scripture plus tradition and their understanding) (physical) than righteousness,peace and joy in the Holy Ghost(spiritual).

luckyCO:

Vertican 1,outside catholic church no salvation. Vertican 2,those not of catholic faith but still keep the faith can make heaven.
Out of abundance of heart the mouth speak.

I have told you not to go into things you have no knowledge of. You should at least learn the name of the city (i hope you know it is a place), It's Vatican and not Vertican as you keep writing. The teaching of the Church at both councils is still same "There is no salvation outside the Church". In Vatican II, the church sees the need to explain further the meaning of that affirmation, just like St. Paul did in scriptures...let me enlighten you a bit on one aspect of it, I hope you'll appreciate it.

Have you ever read John.4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Did you read that Salvation is of the Jews? You may ask:"what about those who worship what they know not, those who do not have the Law, how are they judged"? Now to answer that, long after Jesus had died, it became important that St. Paul treat the issue by explaining more, and this is what he wrote:
When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Rom.2:14-16

Did you see how Paul gave more insight into the phrase? Note that this does not excuse the fact that whoever believes... is saved Jn.5:24, but whoever hears and don't believe is condemned already Jn.3:18. In same way the various councils throw more light on existing truths.

You, my friend, are no more in the category of those who haven't heard, You have listened to his words; harden not your heart.

luckyCO:


At what point is someone added to the body Christ is building? You must have recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost before you become part of that body.
Book of Ezekiel outlines step/process through which someome must pass through before he/she is added: ezekiel 36:24,25,26 then 27 before you are added.

The issue is that catholic church waters salvation to the point they have placed it under man's care. Such lies still exist in pieta like "say rosary everyday you will die by predestination,mary will ensure you will not goto hell"

What happened at pentecost is a call to the body of Christ which is spiritual. It take Holy Ghost for someone to repent and forsake Jewish religion for Christ at the risk of your life.
Yes you see 3000 people physically but the church building is spiritual. God prepares us through many trials such that we will be qualified to be part of that building (his body) which is not physical but spiritual for safe keeping.

If you say that the building christ is building is physical tell me the location and address physically and I will believe you?

there you go again... We Catholics believe and agree with Ezekiel 36... which Peter also emphasizes in Acts 2:38... So I don't know what you are talking about... We believe in baptism and according to Ezekiel and acts 2:38 the Holy Spirit comes after baptism, when it comes to your "baptism of the Holy Spirit", if you are talking about manifesting gift... then you Should know that everyone has different gifts see 1 cor 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. as he wills.

SO UNLIKE WHAT HAPPENS IN PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES WHERE ONE PERSON CAN HAVE ALL THE GIFTS, IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GIFTS ARE SPREAD AS THE SPIRIT SEES FIT...

Again I emphasize your ignoring what the Bible says about the physical body.
.

luckyCO:

The bible said in matt 23:8, that we all are equal before God no hierachy.
Whatever gift God has given to you you profit withal. Once you are acting by the Holy Ghost,the only person that can challenge you is children of the bond women.

We are asked to make deceiples of all nation that is what you see apostle paul doing.
The presense of Holy Ghost brings humility no believer ever sees another believe as inferiour but you do your works according to the grace God has given you,no string attached.

Titus never went and set up braches and name them paul ministry neither did he save every sunday offering and send to apostle paul nor become pauls slave after have recieved salvation. We are all co-workers in the vineyard of God.

Again you quote the Bible out of context...
Mat 23:8 doesn't mean there's no hierarchy in the church, YES ALL MEN ARE EQUAL BEFORE GOD BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM CHURCH HIERARCHY...

ALL THE APOSTLES ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR HIERARCHY OVER THEIR FLOCK IN SCRIPTURES...

PAUL..
1 cor 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many FATHERS. For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be IMITATORS of ME.

PAUL TO TIMOTHY
1 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith:
1 Tim 4:6 If you put these INSTRUCTIONS before the brethren, you will be a GOOD MINISTER of Christ Jesus,
11 Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purit

PAUL TO TITUS
Titus 1: 4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith:
5 This is why I left you in Crete, that you might AMEND WHAT WAS DEFECTIVE, and APPOINT ELDERS in every town as I directed you,
Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what befits sound doctrine. 2 Bid the older men be temperate, serious, sensible, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3 Bid the older women likewise to be reverent in behavior, not to be slanderers or slaves to drink; they are to teach what is good
PETER
1 Peter 5:5 So I exhort the ELDERS among you, AS A FELLOW ELDER and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to
be revealed
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,..


others
Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.
James 3:1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness
1 Tim 5:17 Let the ELDERS who rule well be considered worthy of DOUBLE HONOR, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

AGAIN IN TRYING TO PROVE YOUR POINT YOU DENY WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS... I URGE YOU AGAIN TO TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE INTO ACCOUNT...
2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture is inspired by God andprofitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

luckyCO:


Catholic in general prefer meat(roman dogma and her teachings) and drink(roman interpretation of scripture plus tradition and their understanding) (physical) than righteousness,peace and joy in the Holy Ghost(spiritual).

You have a caricature of Catholicism..
Yes Catholics prefer Catholic teaching to what one self-acclaimed "MAN OF GOD" just like non Catholics believe in their own doctrine and interpretation of scripture... it's only right..... you seem to make yourself the judge over what is righteous and who has the Holy Spirit .... again I will quote the Romans 14 you insist to wrongly use out of context against Catholicism
Romans 14:3 Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.

1 cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
Don't judge let God who sees the heart and knows our intentions judge

luckyCO:


Catholic in general prefer meat(roman dogma and her teachings) and drink(roman interpretation of scripture plus tradition and their understanding) (physical) than righteousness,peace and joy in the Holy Ghost(spiritual).

You have a caricature of Catholicism..
Yes Catholics prefer Catholic teaching to what one self-acclaimed "MAN OF GOD" says or teaches just like non Catholics believe in their own doctrine and interpretation of scripture and hold fast to it compared to what others teach or believe ... it's only right to follow your teachers ..... you seem to make yourself the judge over what is righteous and who has the Holy Spirit .... again I will quote the Romans 14 you insist to wrongly use out of context against Catholicism
Romans 14:3 Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.

1 cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
Don't judge let God who sees the heart and knows our intentions judge

luckyCO:


Romans 14:17 kingdom of heaven is not about meat(roman dogma and teachings) and drink(their understand of scripture) but about righteoisness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Its okay

Syncan:


I have told you not to go into things you have no knowledge of. You should at least learn the name of the city (i hope you know it is a place), It's Vatican and not Vertican as you keep writing.

Am so sorry for my wrong spelling on the city's name Vatican. Am a fast typer also using my phone, you would see I do correct some wrong English typing later as I see them.

However, the Vatican [/b]there does not mean a city as in the two words above, it represents the organized dogmatic belief of Roman Catholic over a period of time using that city where pope lives as reference point.

The teaching of the Church at both councils is still same "There is no salvation outside the Church". In Vatican II, the church sees the need to explain further the meaning of that affirmation, just like St. Paul did in scriptures...let me enlighten you a bit on one aspect of it, I hope you'll appreciate it.

Have you ever read [b]John.4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Did you read that Salvation is of the Jews? You may ask:"what about those who worship what they know not, those who do not have the Law, how are they judged"? Now to answer that, long after Jesus had died, it became important that St. Paul treat the issue by explaining more, and this is what he wrote:
When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Rom.2:14-16

Did you see how Paul gave more insight into the phrase? Note that this does not excuse the fact that whoever believes... is saved Jn.5:24, but whoever hears and don't believe is condemned already Jn.3:18. In same way the various councils throw more light on existing truths.

You, my friend, are no more in the category of those who haven't heard, You have listened to his words; harden not your heart.

The salvation is of Jews meaning that salvation came from Jews(who is a Jew? Rom 2:29, correct pointing). When you get to Jews you will know how salvation is of Jews pointing to the Jesus Christ, why not him say Salvation is from me? That is how he preach mostly to us gentiles because of what we are used to.

Another scripture said outside Christ there is not salvation pointing us to Christ who gave us Salvation.

But what Vatican is pointing us to is Rome Rome, Pope Pope before pointing us to Christ instead of Christ.
Why not say outside Christ there is not salvation instead of outside Roman catholic church though that scripture has already been there but the catholic refused to use it.

The Word of God has hit and wounded Vatican 1[b](Rev 13:3)[/b], so Vatican 2 is another strategy to bring back all Christians and non-Christians together. It will happen someday but before then rapture has taken place.

Check this scripture
Matthew 26:28, the bible says "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many [/b]for the remission of sins.
But Catholic decided to use "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for [b]All [/b]for the remission of sins.
Until we report and report and report( but some charismatic members quote scripture to support it vehemently) and later they organize another synod and change to Latin Mass(and their mouth was closed in shame) as if they dont know it exist, does that one mean enlightenment as you stipulate above?

That means what we are saying in a forum like this is not in vain.


[b]Check this event
We were told that blessed sacrament is Jesus himself under the appearance of bread and wine. So we are not allowed to touch it or go near it but to worship it and spend time with him in the chapel.
But when Ebola came,the same jesus was given to us by hand. Many Charismatic condemned vehemently, you need to hear priest going to the bible to defend that act, but today Ebola is gone, fear is gone, jesus has returned to the catholic church, praise be to God!

You can see that in everything thing, catholic church is a creation of parallel belief system which look like the of Gospel that came down from Israel or rather a covering of roman idols with the gospel that came down from Israel.

You know imitation looks very close to original, anyone who doesn't want original can settle for imitation.

easymancfc:


there you go again... We Catholics believe and agree with Ezekiel 36... which Peter also emphasizes in Acts 2:38... So I don't know what you are talking about... We believe in baptism and according to Ezekiel and acts 2:38 the Holy Spirit comes after baptism, when it comes to your "baptism of the Holy Spirit", if you are talking about manifesting gift... then you Should know that everyone has different gifts see 1 cor 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. as he wills.

SO UNLIKE WHAT HAPPENS IN PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES WHERE ONE PERSON CAN HAVE ALL THE GIFTS, IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GIFTS ARE SPREAD AS THE SPIRIT SEES FIT...

Again I emphasize your ignoring what the Bible says about the physical body.
.

If you believe Ezekiel 36:24-28 and Acts 2:26-40 as revealed by the bible taught by the Apostles you will not stand against what I have been saying here rather than condemning it you advance it if Holy Ghost has revealed more to you.

Each time we point out some of the errors we see in catholic church, the next time you will see is someone comparing catholic church with Pentecostal.
No, that is wrong, compare catholic church with Christ because that is the only image we are asked to conform to.
Of we course we know that the style devil used in working amongst Pentecostal is different with roman religion because he has few time and many Pentecostal pastors have missed it yes!

Now concerning the spiritual gift Eph 4:11 tells us that Christ resurrected to give us those leadership gifts : Apostle,Prophet,Evangelist,Pastor and teacher and they are given to you before you were born. No seminary or bible school nor philosophy nor theology that can make you any of these offices. They are spiritual Gifts given by God
Only you come to the ministry that believe in your gift and it will come out and minister will ordain you to work in that office and you cant run a way from it (As Paul to timothy,Titus etc)
If you have children you can dictate if God has made any of them the offices mentioned.

My Issue here is why is there no of such offices/positions in catholic church as
Apostle,Prophet,Evangelist,Pastor and Teacher.
But there is, but they have converted spiritual offices of the bible into physical offices controlled by men as
Apostle ====> Pope
Prophet ====> Cardinals
Evangelists====> Arch-bishops/Bishops
Pastors/Teacher ===> Monsignors and Rev Frs
These offices are distinct in apostolic teaching but somehow I see it mixed up in catholic church (matt 13:33),thereby creating the most advanced organization in the world parallel to Christianity.

But we see gift of 1 Cor 12, amongst some lay members and priest, but ask those priest and ray members what they pass through/persecution in that hands of bishops and other Rev fr(though they wear white and say they are spiritual) you will know the foundation of your church.
Eg: Rev Frs were sent to feed Late Rev Fr Njoku poison to stop manifesting his gifts because they dont understand it but God saved him.

Again I emphasize your ignoring what the Bible says about the physical body.

Bible was talking about physical body, he used physical body to reference the spiritual body.
Christ preached the Gospel by nature, the catechism of RCC said we should know things on earth to be able to understand things in heaven.

Christ said be careful of yeast of the pharisee. He should have used what heaven called yeast to preach the gospel but he used what we know day to day to preach Gospel. The cause/effect of yeast will do to bread say after 3days is what the teachings of pharisee will do to your soul.

Again let me say this; the whole story in the old testament is talking about Christ and His Church!

My emphasis is not that you will not create your own church and Head or appoint a version of peter to head it and interpret the bible by letter to support it, but all am saying is that they church Christ said he is building in the Matt 16 is his Body a spiritual church where nobody will claim anything and where devil has no power and those in that church second death will not have any power over them hence the bride of Christ.

luckyCO:

Am so sorry for my wrong spelling on the city's name Vatican. Am a fast typer also using my phone, you would see I do correct some wrong English typing later as I see them.

However, the Vatican [/b]there does not mean a city as in the two words above, it represents the organized dogmatic belief of Roman Catholic over a period of time using that city where pope lives as reference point.



The salvation is of Jews meaning that salvation came from Jews(who is a Jew? Rom 2:29, correct pointing). When you get to Jews you will know how salvation is of Jews pointing to the Jesus Christ, why not him say Salvation is from me? That is how he preach mostly to us gentiles because of what we are used to.

Another scripture said outside Christ there is not salvation pointing us to Christ who gave us Salvation.

But what Vatican is pointing us to is Rome Rome, Pope Pope before pointing us to Christ instead of Christ.
Why not say outside Christ there is not salvation instead of outside Roman catholic church though that scripture has already been there but the catholic refused to use it.

The Word of God has hit and wounded Vatican 1[b](Rev 13:3), so Vatican 2 is another strategy to bring back all Christians and non-Christians together. It will happen someday but before then rapture has taken place.

Check this scripture
Matthew 26:28, the bible says "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many [/b]for the remission of sins.
But Catholic decided to use "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for [b]All [/b]for the remission of sins.
Until we report and report and report( but some charismatic members quote scripture to support it vehemently) and later they organize another synod and change to Latin Mass(and their mouth was closed in shame) as if they dont know it exist, does that one mean enlightenment as you stipulate above?

That means what we are saying in a forum like this is not in vain.


[b]Check this event
We were told that blessed sacrament is Jesus himself under the appearance of bread and wine. So we are not allowed to touch it or go near it but to worship it and spend time with him in the chapel.
But when Ebola came,the same jesus was given to us by hand. Many Charismatic condemned vehemently, you need to hear priest going to the bible to defend that act, but today Ebola is gone, fear is gone, jesus has returned to the catholic church, praise be to God!

You can see that in everything thing, catholic church is a creation of parallel belief system which look like the of Gospel that came down from Israel or rather a covering of roman idols with the gospel that came down from Israel.

You know imitation looks very close to original, anyone who doesn't want original can settle for imitation.

I HAVE BEING FOLLOWING THIS INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS. I THINK luckyCO has read so many bible passages upside down and downside up... he has however left behind the theology of the same scripture. this part is important for better understanding of t he scripture. One cant just open the bible and read and translate literally, we must also understand what is it that surround what the scripture and even the tradition of those it was written for.

The Bible is a collection of HOLY SCRIPTURE, it was not written at the same time unlike the HOLY QURAN which was a direct message thus it will seem clearer and straight. Am not an apostle that always use the BIBLE to check the imbalance of our world today, The church came before most of the scriptures where compiled. The tradition left us by the apostle was sufficient for early Christians until the advent of electronics ie. printer.

Viewing all the comments for and against Catholicism, it was obvious that the SCRIPTURE is the weapon of attack and defense, i want us all to examine the following verses of the HOLY BIBLE

John 21:25New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.[/b]

2 Thessalonians 2:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter [a]from us.[b]

2 Timothy 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.[b][/b]


with the above verses the apostles of Jesus never intended that we are to argue over what is in the scripture or not in it.. the message is always clear Repent from our sins and strive towards holiness.

The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, i believe so are others... so why throw muds at ourself. i want to believe in another writing of Saint Mar k
49“Master, said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”… and i believe when temptations like that comes our way we are to respond like OUR MERCIFUL FATHER.

The Church of Christ is HOLY, APOSTOLIC, and UNIVERSAL.

Thank you

easymancfc:


Again you quote the Bible out of context...
Mat 23:8 doesn't mean there's no hierarchy in the church, YES ALL MEN ARE EQUAL BEFORE GOD BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM CHURCH HIERARCHY...

ALL THE APOSTLES ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR HIERARCHY OVER THEIR FLOCK IN SCRIPTURES...

PAUL..
1 cor 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many FATHERS. For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be IMITATORS of ME.

PAUL TO TIMOTHY
1 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith:
1 Tim 4:6 If you put these INSTRUCTIONS before the brethren, you will be a GOOD MINISTER of Christ Jesus,
11 Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purit

PAUL TO TITUS
Titus 1: 4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith:
5 This is why I left you in Crete, that you might AMEND WHAT WAS DEFECTIVE, and APPOINT ELDERS in every town as I directed you,
Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what befits sound doctrine. 2 Bid the older men be temperate, serious, sensible, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3 Bid the older women likewise to be reverent in behavior, not to be slanderers or slaves to drink; they are to teach what is good
PETER
1 Peter 5:5 So I exhort the ELDERS among you, AS A FELLOW ELDER and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to
be revealed
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,..


others
Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.
James 3:1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness
1 Tim 5:17 Let the ELDERS who rule well be considered worthy of DOUBLE HONOR, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

AGAIN IN TRYING TO PROVE YOUR POINT YOU DENY WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS... I URGE YOU AGAIN TO TAKE ALL SCRIPTURE INTO ACCOUNT...
2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture is inspired by God andprofitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

father and son relationship exist and approved by the bible, hence go and make disciples of all nations but you see that you have left making disciples but making parishes of all nations. Elijah - Elisha is old testament example.

In the verses you quoted is setup in any local assembly where believers gather to worship God such that things will go orderly not universal church.

Paul is not the one that is heading those local assembly nor collecting tithes and offering from those assemblies nor telling them what they should preach or verses they should read every gathering, promote and demote anybody as he wishes because he is the one that raised them.

NO, every local assembly has order,do know that apostolic ministry is foundation laying ministry, he and all his sons move about laying foundation of our faith. If you apply it these verses to more than one local assembly you create hierarchy and you asked Holy Ghost to leave. That does not mean that apostle Paul does not have little influence over those church he established because when you sow seed you ensure it germinates.

But come to look at catholic Church, the same clothes roman prince wear before the advent of Christianity is what is exported all over the world and they see it as submitting under Apostle Peter(Pope).

One of the Rev fr I know who said he will not wear that chasuble and cassock , he will wear his cultural clothes to celebrate mass and they put in psychiatric hospital for months after which they transferred him to hospital to check if his is normal.
That is hierarchy

Somebody is in a far Rome and exact full authority in the churches in Nigeria and others,appoint bishops he never ordained and remove bishops he never ordained, I believe you see Apostle Paul did like in the verses you quoted?

easymancfc:



You have a caricature of Catholicism..

Your saint Malachi said after 256 pope the next will be anti-Christ, how about that?

Yes Catholics prefer Catholic teaching to what one self-acclaimed "MAN OF GOD" says or teaches just like non Catholics believe in their own doctrine and interpretation of scripture and hold fast to it compared to what others teach or believe ... it's only right to follow your teachers ..... you seem to make yourself the judge over what is righteous and who has the Holy Spirit .... again I will quote the Romans 14 you insist to wrongly use out of context against Catholicism
Romans 14:3 Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.

1 cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
Don't judge let God who sees the heart and knows our intentions judge

Why did you condemn self acclaimed men of God if you said dont Judge? You are judging already.
When you said outside catholic church there is no salvation you have judged and sentenced other people who dont believe you to hell.
Interpretation of the scripture is only by Holy Ghost not man or organized system.
The bible said if Ezekiel 14:1-5, so if you come to God with your interpretation, he will answer you by your interpretation.
Hence you are free to make dogma and look for letters to support it.

You are free to claim anything catholic is teaching, that is you but when you make look like Christianity then we tell it is not so and that is what am doing.

Do not loss focus on the object our discussion found in matt 16, your (team) saying the church there was built on peter therefore he is the visible head of the universal church of Christ, pope succeeded him and we said NO!
Some said church there is both physical(headed by Pope from peter) and spiritual(Christ) as I said NO!

martooski:


I HAVE BEING FOLLOWING THIS INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS. I THINK luckyCO has read so many bible passages upside down and downside up... he has however left behind the theology of the same scripture. this part is important for better understanding of t he scripture. One cant just open the bible and read and translate literally, we must also understand what is it that surround what the scripture and even the tradition of those it was written for.

You have just said the common language we use to defend ourselves whenever we are confronted.
Believe me you didn't read my submission but you read to answer because we said that your god(pope) is not head of universal church nor office pope has anything connection to do with spiritual church Christ is building.

The Bible is a collection of HOLY SCRIPTURE, it was not written at the same time unlike the HOLY QURAN which was a direct message thus it will seem clearer and straight. Am not an apostle that always use the BIBLE to check the imbalance of our world today, The church came before most of the scriptures where compiled. The tradition left us by the apostle was sufficient for early Christians until the advent of electronics ie. printer.

Viewing all the comments for and against Catholicism, it was obvious that the SCRIPTURE is the weapon of attack and defense, i want us all to examine the following verses of the HOLY BIBLE

John 21:25New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.[/b]

2 Thessalonians 2:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter [a]from us.[b]

2 Timothy 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.[b][/b]


with the above verses the apostles of Jesus never intended that we are to argue over what is in the scripture or not in it.. the message is always clear Repent from our sins and strive towards holiness.

The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, i believe so are others... so why throw muds at ourself. i want to believe in another writing of Saint Mar k
49“Master, said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”… and i believe when temptations like that comes our way we are to respond like OUR MERCIFUL FATHER.

The Church of Christ is HOLY, APOSTOLIC, and UNIVERSAL.

Thank you

The way bible is compiled is to sort out the children of the promise to that of the bond woman making holy Ghost the sole interpreter of the bible not roman religion.

Everything must not be in the bible according your quotation and I believe it, infact a time shall come, where Gods revelation you might not see them exactly in the bible but it will not contradict the bible, the guide he has given us.

In summary dear, claim anything , say anything believe anything but let that your claim take me(hearer) to Christ directly to cause me to behold his face and be like him that is how I know what you are saying,believing and claiming is of God else it is not for me.


The Church of Christ is HOLY, APOSTOLIC, and UNIVERSAL. and I Add it is spiritual also.

luckyCO:

Am so sorry for my wrong spelling on the city's name Vatican. Am a fast typer also using my phone, you would see I do correct some wrong English typing later as I see them.

However, the Vatican there does not mean a city as in the two words above, it represents the organized dogmatic belief of Roman Catholic over a period of time using that city where pope lives as reference point.



The salvation is of Jews meaning that salvation came from Jews(who is a Jew? Rom 2:29, correct pointing). When you get to Jews you will know how salvation is of Jews pointing to the Jesus Christ, why not him say Salvation is from me? That is how he preach mostly to us gentiles because of what we are used to.

Another scripture said outside Christ there is not salvation pointing us to Christ who gave us Salvation.

But what Vatican is pointing us to is Rome Rome, Pope Pope before pointing us to Christ instead of Christ.
Why not say outside Christ there is not salvation instead of outside Roman catholic church though that scripture has already been there but the catholic refused to use it.

The Word of God has hit and wounded Vatican 1[b](Rev 13:3)[/b], so Vatican 2 is another strategy to bring back all Christians and non-Christians together. It will happen someday but before then rapture has taken place.

Check this scripture
Matthew 26:28, the bible says "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many [/b]for the remission of sins.
But Catholic decided to use "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for [b]All [/b]for the remission of sins.
Until we report and report and report( but some charismatic members quote scripture to support it vehemently) and later they organize another synod and change to Latin Mass(and their mouth was closed in shame) as if they dont know it exist, does that one mean enlightenment as you stipulate above?

That means what we are saying in a forum like this is not in vain.


[b]Check this event
We were told that blessed sacrament is Jesus himself under the appearance of bread and wine. So we are not allowed to touch it or go near it but to worship it and spend time with him in the chapel.
But when Ebola came,the same jesus was given to us by hand. Many Charismatic condemned vehemently, you need to hear priest going to the bible to defend that act, but today Ebola is gone, fear is gone, jesus has returned to the catholic church, praise be to God!

You can see that in everything thing, catholic church is a creation of parallel belief system which look like the of Gospel that came down from Israel or rather a covering of roman idols with the gospel that came down from Israel.

You know imitation looks very close to original, anyone who doesn't want original can settle for imitation.

In as much as i find it a bit difficult keeping this discuss in line because of your constant delving into things you know little about, I will try my best to simplify my explanations for the sake of anyone who genuinely wants to know, and that people may not be misled.

I decided to correct you on the name Vatican because that was the second time you were posting and used Vertican. I ignored the first as typo error, but when it came a second time with same spelling, I now had to make correction of an obvious wrong spelling. I have told you Vatican is a place, but you keep holding on to falsehood. Councils are named after the place they were held thus: Jerusalem council was held in Jerusalem,Council of Ephesus was held in Ephesus, Nicaea Councils 1&2 were held in Nicaea, Vatican councils 1&2 were held in Vatican. You may continue to hold on to what you like, I have already informed you.

It is my sincere advice to you not to start an argument or take a position based on the headlines you read from the media, try and read the contents, often time the contents aren't what the headlines suggest. I have tried to enlighten you on what it means "There is no salvation outside the Church" but you wouldn't listen. I have given you an example with "Salvation is of the Jews" in scriptures while same scriptures talked about the possible salvation of those who don't have the Law. The church has Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you gone through that book before? The church doesn't hide her teachings, it is there in print for all to read, that is why your sin is more than those who are illiterates; and only condemn the church based on what they hear others say. Here is what the Church teaches on the issue:

"Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it". CCC 846


You talk about the Ebola issue out of poor knowledge about God. The church Knows God very well, and the church has a duty towards her children of little faith as well...So if you were Joseph and Mary who ran with Jesus to Egypt because of ordinary Herod, Matt.2 you will start to doubt that Jesus is God. You see, despite your antagonisms the Church knows God more than you, I will leave it at that example alone. The world as a whole bear witness to the heroics of the Church's sons and daughters in spreading the good news to the ends of the earth, It is a mandate Christ gave her and she will continue to deliver till her groom appears.


Lest I forget, on the words of consecration whether "many" or "All", it means same. Christ died for all says St. Paul "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." 2Cor.5:15. Christ's death did not exclude anyone, the whole world was involved, it's all over scripture the use of many when all was meant. I do not want to make this post too long.

Syncan:


In as much as i find it a bit difficult keeping this discuss in line because of your constant delving into things you know little about, I will try my best to simplify my explanations for the sake of anyone who genuinely wants to know, and that people may not be misled

Truly, anything outside catholic church means you have left the faith and you are being mis-lead. Those who bolted to error whill listen and hear you and follow your teaching. Catholic church used force but now bible is free, easy to read, so nobody can inform us improperly.

I decided to correct you on the name Vatican because that was the second time you were posting and used Vertican. I ignored the first as typo error, but when it came a second time with same spelling, I now had to make correction of an obvious wrong spelling. I have told you Vatican is a place, but you keep holding on to falsehood. Councils are named after the place they were held thus: Jerusalem council was held in Jerusalem,Council of Ephesus was held in Ephesus, Nicaea Councils 1&2 were held in Nicaea, Vatican councils 1&2 were held in Vatican. You may continue to hold on to what you like, I have already informed you.

You are very right! what was decided at those councils compare it to what was decided at Nicaea councils and Vatican council, you will understand that very problem of the church started then. Noone has the monopoly of knowledge.

[/quote]

It is my sincere advice to you not to start an argument or take a position based on the headlines you read from the media, try and read the contents, often time the contents aren't what the headlines suggest. I have tried to enlighten you on what it means "There is no salvation outside the Church" but you wouldn't listen. I have given you an example with "Salvation is of the Jews" in scriptures while same scriptures talked about the possible salvation of those who don't have the Law. The church has Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you gone through that book before? The church doesn't hide her teachings, it is there in print for all to read, that is why your sin is more than those who are illiterates; and only condemn the church based on what they hear others say. Here is what the Church teaches on the issue:

Yes I agree with you. I didn't physically see any hidden thing in the church by the knowledge God has given me.

The only thing that catholic keep secret is the revelation of whom Jesus Christ is and they don't want anybody to know it. Many people who tried to know it were driven out of the church and termed them heretics.

However, who will let us access to roman library such that we will know what went wrong through this history that reduced roman to formalized organized.

"Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it". CCC 846


You talk about the Ebola issue out of poor knowledge about God. The church Knows God very well, and the church has a duty towards her children of little faith as well...So if you were Joseph and Mary who ran with Jesus to Egypt because of ordinary Herod, Matt.2 you will start to doubt that Jesus is God. You see, despite your antagonisms the Church knows God more than you, I will leave it at that example alone. The world as a whole bear witness to the heroics of the Church's sons and daughters in spreading the good news to the ends of the earth, It is a mandate Christ gave her and she will continue to deliver till her groom appears.

Most times I hear some people say church teaches this and that, I need to see fruit of those things, but you will not see.
I have gone through RCC catechism and taught it also but its discussion it is for another day, it is not good to talk about so many topics at time.

Jesus went Egypt to fulfill a scripture as you see in the cause of roman solder piecing the side of Jesus Christ.
Maybe allowing laymen to receive Holy communion on hands is to fulfill a scripture please do let us see the scripture it fulfills and case will be closed.

However, am calling your attention to the reason why we discuss, we discuss because you said peter is the head of universal church Christ is building and I said NO!

martooski:


I HAVE BEING FOLLOWING THIS INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS. I THINK luckyCO has read so many bible passages upside down and downside up... he has however left behind the theology of the same scripture. this part is important for better understanding of t he scripture. One cant just open the bible and read and translate literally, we must also understand what is it that surround what the scripture and even the tradition of those it was written for.

The Bible is a collection of HOLY SCRIPTURE, it was not written at the same time unlike the HOLY QURAN which was a direct message thus it will seem clearer and straight. Am not an apostle that always use the BIBLE to check the imbalance of our world today, The church came before most of the scriptures where compiled. The tradition left us by the apostle was sufficient for early Christians until the advent of electronics ie. printer.

Viewing all the comments for and against Catholicism, it was obvious that the SCRIPTURE is the weapon of attack and defense, i want us all to examine the following verses of the HOLY BIBLE

John 21:25New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.[/b]

2 Thessalonians 2:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter [a]from us.[b]

2 Timothy 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.[b][/b]


with the above verses the apostles of Jesus never intended that we are to argue over what is in the scripture or not in it.. the message is always clear Repent from our sins and strive towards holiness.

The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, i believe so are others... so why throw muds at ourself. i want to believe in another writing of Saint Mar k
49“Master, said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”… and i believe when temptations like that comes our way we are to respond like OUR MERCIFUL FATHER.

The Church of Christ is HOLY, APOSTOLIC, and UNIVERSAL.

Thank you

I understand where you're going, however, Sola Scriptura chanters do not want to hear. Sometimes it's necessary to teach them that the Scripture is ours and the interpretation repose in the church. Many of them have never heard scripture clearly explained as they do from reading our posts here, that's the first time they hear authentic teachings as the church has taught over the years. So most times, I do not shy away from using scripture and confounding them.

Syncan:


I understand where you're going, however, Sola Scriptura chanters do not want to hear. Sometimes it's necessary to teach them that the Scripture is ours and the interpretation repose in the church. Many of them have never heard scripture clearly explained as they do from reading our posts here, that's the first time they hear authentic teachings as the church has taught over the years. So most times, I do not shy away from using scripture and confounding them.

HONESTLY YOU GUYS HAVE TRIED, BUT THOSE WHO HAVE EARS HAVE HEARD ALREADY. i SALUTE YOU COURAGE, BENEDICTUS AND THE OTHER FELLOW, LEARNT ALOT FROM THE COMMENTS SO FAR

Syncan:


In as much as i find it a bit difficult keeping this discuss in line because of your constant delving into things you know little about, I will try my best to simplify my explanations for the sake of anyone who genuinely wants to know, and that people may not be misled.

I decided to correct you on the name Vatican because that was the second time you were posting and used Vertican. I ignored the first as typo error, but when it came a second time with same spelling, I now had to make correction of an obvious wrong spelling. I have told you Vatican is a place, but you keep holding on to falsehood. Councils are named after the place they were held thus: Jerusalem council was held in Jerusalem,Council of Ephesus was held in Ephesus, Nicaea Councils 1&2 were held in Nicaea, Vatican councils 1&2 were held in Vatican. You may continue to hold on to what you like, I have already informed you.

It is my sincere advice to you not to start an argument or take a position based on the headlines you read from the media, try and read the contents, often time the contents aren't what the headlines suggest. I have tried to enlighten you on what it means "There is no salvation outside the Church" but you wouldn't listen. I have given you an example with "Salvation is of the Jews" in scriptures while same scriptures talked about the possible salvation of those who don't have the Law. The church has Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you gone through that book before? The church doesn't hide her teachings, it is there in print for all to read, that is why your sin is more than those who are illiterates; and only condemn the church based on what they hear others say. Here is what the Church teaches on the issue:

"Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it". CCC 846


You talk about the Ebola issue out of poor knowledge about God. The church Knows God very well, and the church has a duty towards her children of little faith as well...So if you were Joseph and Mary who ran with Jesus to Egypt because of ordinary Herod, Matt.2 you will start to doubt that Jesus is God. You see, despite your antagonisms the Church knows God more than you, I will leave it at that example alone. The world as a whole bear witness to the heroics of the Church's sons and daughters in spreading the good news to the ends of the earth, It is a mandate Christ gave her and she will continue to deliver till her groom appears.

Lest I forget, on the words of consecration whether "many" or "All", it means same. Christ died for all says St. Paul "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." 2Cor.5:15. Christ's death did not exclude anyone, the whole world was involved, it's all over scripture the use of many when all was meant. I do not want to make this post too long.

If you say many and all are same then case closed.

Syncan:


I understand where you're going, however, Sola Scriptura chanters do not want to hear. Sometimes it's necessary to teach them that the Scripture is ours and the interpretation repose in the church. Many of them have never heard scripture clearly explained as they do from reading our posts here, that's the first time they hear authentic teachings as the church has taught over the years. So most times, I do not shy away from using scripture and confounding them.

That is where the whole error comes in. If you say that interpretation of bible repose in your church to do what with?
The bible said hour is coming when the true worshipers will worship God in (catholic,Anglican, Pentecostal) No! in spirit and truth.
No more Jerusalem nor any mountain anywhere but in Christ Jesus.

martooski:

HONESTLY YOU GUYS HAVE TRIED, BUT THOSE WHO HAVE EARS HAVE HEARD ALREADY. i SALUTE YOU COURAGE, BENEDICTUS AND THE OTHER FELLOW, LEARNT ALOT FROM THE COMMENTS SO FAR

If you are within the framework as I was you will not find anything wrong in what they are saying, you will praise it but soon you will discover disjointed claims, then you start asking questions.

They first person they will refer you to is Martin Luther, meaning what they did to him awaits you.

luckyCO:

If you are within the framework as I was you will not find anything wrong in what they are saying, you will praise it but soon you will discover disjointed claims, then you start asking questions.

They first person they will refer you to is Martin Luther, meaning what they did to him awaits you.

MUST YOU ALWAYS PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE.... THEY HAVE PUT FACTS AT YOUR FRONT YOU TURN THE MATTER TO SPIRITUAL... PLS FACE YOUR CHALLENGE

luckyCO:

Truly, anything outside catholic church means you have left the faith and you are being mis-lead. Those who bolted to error whill listen and hear you and follow your teaching. Catholic church used force but now bible is free, easy to read, so nobody can inform us improperly.

You are very right! what was decided at those councils compare it to what was decided at Nicaea councils and Vatican council, you will understand that very problem of the church started then. Noone has the monopoly of knowledge.


Yes I agree with you. I didn't physically see any hidden thing in the church by the knowledge God has given me.

The only thing that catholic keep secret is the revelation of whom Jesus Christ is and they don't want anybody to know it. Many people who tried to know it were driven out of the church and termed them heretics.

However, who will let us access to roman library such that we will know what went wrong through this history that reduced roman to formalized organized.


Most times I hear some people say church teaches this and that, I need to see fruit of those things, but you will not see.
I have gone through RCC catechism and taught it also but its discussion it is for another day, it is not good to talk about so many topics at time.

Jesus went Egypt to fulfill a scripture as you see in the cause of roman solder piecing the side of Jesus Christ.
Maybe allowing laymen to receive Holy communion on hands is to fulfill a scripture please do let us see the scripture it fulfills and case will be closed.

However, am calling your attention to the reason why we discuss, we discuss because you said peter is the head of universal church Christ is building and I said NO!

When you respond just try and write yours in paragraphs, rather than breaking up my posts, It is normally difficult for me to follow up when my posts are broken. You may as well number your points or itemize if you want.

The impression I get is that I am telling you facts and you are choosing to hold on to whatever you've been fed with. All the councils are same, it only held at different time, in different places, by different people and for different challenges. "By their fruits ye shall know them" says scripture, what Church can boast of her children over the years more than the Catholic Church, and just like in the days of the apostles, God continues to show his approval by Miracles. Her saints and their legacies adorn the earth like sweet aromatic flowers.

Hahaha, the truth is that Joseph and Mary ran to Egypt to hide God the son from a mere creature. If you know this and still have faith, you will see what some members of the church did at that time; and still have faith.

On Peter, I have told you the truth and you said No, it changes nothing at all, Jesus told the Jews that He is from Yawheh and they did not only say No, they killed him. Has that stopped it from being true?