Syncan:



You said "he died for us all", doesn't it mean "he shed his blood for us all"?

Titus 2:11-13 says For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,...
How many people will receive it?

Christ also said John 12:31-32 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.


How many people will come lifting up their holy hand as they serve God?

So Christ has provided opportunity equally for all of us such that if you now insist and refused to believe then the cup he went through on the cross will be against and you will never be forgiven.

For he know their heart, that is why he said in matt 26:28 that this blood was shed for you(who have believed) and me and you( who will believe later) for the forgiveness of our sins.

Syncan:


This is Jesus words in Matt. 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Now I repeat my question to you: was the blood of Christ shed for all mankind or are there some He didn't shed it for?

Bible said in Hebrews 10:4(It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.)
What kept us in this condition is sin coming from Adam.

If you want to know those he shed his blood for is by asking what is the blood of Christ for?
The life of flesh is in the blood, that is why a condition is placed on those that will receive it.
What is that condition repentance and forgiveness of sin.

Someone who doesn't believe that he has sinned does not ask for forgiveness, that is why he said it is shed for you and for many because before your sins are forgiven you must acknowledge that Christ was flogged and killed because of our sins, then you repent of those sins by outward sign of water baptism for inward grace of forgiveness.

Syncan:



Sorry. The fold has one faith, One Lord, One Baptism, It is not All Join.

One Faith
Christ died for us because of our sin, was buried,on the third day he resurrected, on the fortieth day he ascended into heaven, on fiftieth day he came down on those that believe. That is good news, apostolic faith and that is One faith we preach.

One Lord
We have only one person who could save me from damnation and He is Jesus Christ. Because he died for me God now made him both Lord and Savior(Acts 2:36). Why because he died for me. So nobody has right to say Jesus Belongs to him or his religion.

One Baptism
Since he died for our sin, yes a propitiation for our sins yes, you need to acknowledge his death and come to repentance that you will not commit the same sin again that took Him Calvary else you will crucify him again and you know God does not do His things twice.

Now you have repented, show it. After you have shown you have repented then he will confirm that you that you have truly repented by giving you baptism of the Holy Spirit that will cause you to do his will, you will be His son and he will be your Father.

That is why Paul said in Eph 4:1-6,I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So he was not talking to catholic of Rome.

martooski:


I just reread this and was wandering why Apostle Paul did not add "and the Scriptures" did he forget or there where none available.

Do you think tradition there means roman tradition?
I read few catholic book esp Fr Mbukama(Sorry if mis-spelt it), he used that passage to support roman tradition.

No! which tradition? Ways/manners of Christian behavior; Tradition of Holiness, tradition of being in bond of peace, tradition of long suffering etc, these are the way Apostles do things encouraging one another.

Whatever tradition you are inculcating must not contradict the written Word else it comes from anti-Christ spirit.
Matt 15:2,Colossians 2:8 ,2 Thessalonians 3:6 ,Mark 7:9,1 Peter 1:18 means there are wrong tradition people can hold on to.
It is that tradition we are speaking against.

luckyCO:


No they are not same.

It is like saying righteousness(Christ's) and Holiness(Yours) are the same. So Christ has given us His righteousness, then we need to live a holy life. That is why bible said without holiness no eye will see God.

What is the blood for?
The blood is for the cleansing of sin. Every year high priest takes the blood of animal and offer for sin. But that animal blood only covers sin but does not take away sin that is why you have to do that every year or as often.

But the better blood has come, the blood of Jesus the righteous one who has no sin and he cleanse our sin once. That is why catholic church teach that baptism has seal on your soul that you don't need to repeat.

Yes it is talking about the blood, one you come under the blood, your sins are forgiven. It is not enough that he died, you have to believe, repent and be baptized( Ezekiel 36:24-25) and he will give you His Holy Spirit and cause you to do what please him(Ezekiel 36:26-28).

Aside forgiveness of sin none of these is possible.

@ bold, I give up. If according to your "revelations": Christ died for all; but shed his blood for some and not all, then no need for further discussion.

Syncan:


@ bold, I give up. If according to your "revelations": Christ died for all; but shed his blood for some and not all, then no need for further discussion.

That is mystery of salvation. If you dont understand this verse(matt 26:28) then your salvation might be under asumption.

If you check my earlier statement I said we may never agree together because you study bible by roman filter just to defend rome(rev fr mbukama books are perfect example) instead of by revelation which will make you experince God and Christ and behold his face and be more like Him.

I did like you before until I discover it is another form of idol worship.
I used to claim some scriptures just to defend rome to put forward roman religion is only true church,though I dont believe nor understand them.
But we know God is watching what we claim here and there and may use it to Judge me and you.

Finally, the only righteous system and person is Jesus, my pastor,rev fr,pope,church is not neither did they die for me.

These titles: Holiness,his enimence, his grace,his lordship,rev fr are titles desiring worship. None of the apostles/desciples of Jesus Christ ever bear such titles nor ever desire worship.

Peter in the house of cornelius rebuked him not to fall to worship but rome encourage her members to Knel or fall on the ground and kiss pope's shoe or ring(bone of the saint) because he replaced peter.

Conclusion: Rev 13:16 and he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Mark on foreheads here is lieing teaching you heard,accepted and believed, mark on right hand here is the lieing teaching you recieve and by that you act( preach, promote, persecute or insult anybody who didnt believe you).

God bless the Bride of Jesus Christ who are waiting for His return.

Syncan:


@ bold, I give up. If according to your "revelations": Christ died for all; but shed his blood for some and not all, then no need for further discussion.

Try some more bro

jnrbayano:




Try some more bro

You try

Syncan:



1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the world." Does this look like Jesus death excludes anyone?

I have only put scriptures in your face.

Sorry I missed responding to this:

If you check 1 John 2:1 you will dicover that John was writing to his little children in faith,meaning that they have already believed.

Now let us reconcile that scirpture with romans 3:23-26
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

You will understand that the All there John was writing to are those that believe in Jesus Christ.

If Catholicism is false gospel, then the Bible is false gospel because it was compiled and canonized by the Catholic Church.

luckyCO:


Sorry I missed responding to this:

If you check 1 John 2:1 you will dicover that John was writing to his little children in faith,meaning that they have already believed.

Now let us reconcile that scirpture with romans 3:23-26
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

You will understand that the All there John was writing to are those that believe in Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the world."

italo:
If Catholicism is false gospel, then the Bible is false gospel because it was compiled and canonized by the Catholic Church.

Since rome was the world power managed information to suit their operations co-coordinating the most secured library in the world, you can make any claim you want in order to support your any of your doctrines hence tradition.
But am concerned about what matters,what matters is not who compiled the bible but who is worshiping God in Spirit and truth, that is how to know who compiled(understand) the bible.
Someone once praised the womb that gave birth to Jesus and he turned back and praised who heard Him and obeyed.

Jesus said to Martha;
Martha Martha you worry for many things that are not necessary for only one thing is necessary.
Italo, Italo you worry for many things that are not necessary for only one thing is necessary, that is what Jesus would have told you today.

However,I don't want to go into details of the church that was killing believers who is holding and reading bible and burning bible though they claim to have compiled it nor the church whose priest said publicly that if you read bible you will be mad and turn back quote one saint that said ignorant of the bible is ignorant of Christ such that they depend on lectionary from papa noster

Syncan:


1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the world."

Let me copy the 1 John 2:1-5

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Get Romans 3:23-26

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Heb 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the(people that are known -ie people that believe) people.

If you compare this bible verses you will balance the scripture and you will determine that faith in Christ Jesus needed for the remission because you put your faith in whom you know and your sins forgiven if only you know you have wronged someone and repented of it and asked for forgiveness.

If you mean because it is said our sins and that of the whole meaning that a hindu will still be a hindu and not believing Jesus and his sins be remitted then you are preaching ecumenism and we don't believe in that.

Whether you are hindu,pagan,Muslim,catholic,Anglican, Pentecostal, etc, the blood of Jesus is ready waiting for anybody that will come under it for the remission of his/her sins, how; repent,baptize in the name of Jesus , he will confirm you by giving you Holy Ghost and then you begin to live a Holy life. Jesus is only standard for going for rapture(Eph 4:13).

There were many millions and millions of people during Noah but he destroyed all of them except Noah and family and you think God is looking at the world like you are quoting because you also think He has changed.

If you think because roman religion is over 1 billion and as they have polluted their system that God will waste time destroying them, you have to think twice. But before he destroys your roman system, He will use your system to confirm/sort those who are believers such that in doing that you would have gotten rotten very well for nothing but destruction, then he will destroy that cadge of every unclean birds.

As I watch I see so many new useless doctrines coming into the church/parishes just to raise money, business men/enterprise are using the number and are promoting their business, even if you say they should stop they will use their money to protect those doctrines to ensure that their business is selling.

God doesn't work with quantity but he works with quality!

luckyCO:


Since rome was the world power managed information to suit their operations co-coordinating the most secured library in the world, you can make any claim you want in order to support your any of your doctrines hence tradition.
But am concerned about what matters,what matters is not who compiled the bible but who is worshiping God in Spirit and truth, that is how to know who compiled(understand) the bible.
Someone once praised the womb that gave birth to Jesus and he turned back and praised who heard Him and obeyed.

Jesus said to Martha;
Martha Martha you worry for many things that are not necessary for only one thing is necessary.
Italo, Italo you worry for many things that are not necessary for only one thing is necessary, that is what Jesus would have told you today.

However,I don't want to go into details of the church that was killing believers who is holding and reading bible and burning bible though they claim to have compiled it nor the church whose priest said publicly that if you read bible you will be mad and turn back quote one saint that said ignorant of the bible is ignorant of Christ such that they depend on lectionary from papa noster

That the Catholic Church compiled and canonized the bible is an undeniable fact. No matter how many paragraphs it takes you to dance around the truth, it will never change.

The bible is part of the gospel of the Catholic Church.

If catholicism is false gospel, its bible would be false too.

Roman catholic is a force doctrine that indirectly lead people to worship satan without knowing...pls if u are dea come out nw, before it will be too late

emmaitive:
Roman catholic is a force doctrine that indirectly lead people to worship satan without knowing...pls if u are dea come out nw, before it will be too late

Tell me,how does the Catholic Church lead people to worship satan?
by the way, where do you expect catholics to go after they leave the CC? I'm assuming it's your church - what's the name of your church?

italo:


That the Catholic Church compiled and canonized the bible is an undeniable fact. No matter how many paragraphs it takes you to dance around the truth, it will never change.

The bible is part of the gospel of the Catholic Church.

If catholicism is false gospel, its bible would be false too.

Ok,I dont want to go into that,since we are all human beings claiming we love Jesus or Jesus is for us,I now ask,how can this claim give you salvation?

Jews made claim that they have Jelusalem that is only place to worship,they have moses,abraham and even Jesus came from Jews(which is true),the woman that Jesus met was claiming that it is at the mountain(which is true) but Jesus said they only claim you should make is that you worship God in spirit and in truth.

I would wish you make those claims that will make your listeners learn something on how to draw closer to Christ.

emmaitive:
Roman catholic is a force doctrine that indirectly lead people to worship satan without knowing...pls if u are dea come out nw, before it will be too late

That original church that was formed in the Upper room was the same original church that went to Rome now see what happened.
Devil apply 3 dimensions when he is targeting a revival and they are thus;

1. He will try to kill ,destroy and steal from you with all manners of intimidation and offering of substitute with money, hunger, threat, blackmail . But if the revivalist was not touched,

2. He will withdraw waiting and a kind of encouraging you till those that brought that revival all died: Joshua 24:31[b] And Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the LORD, that he had done for Israel. [/b]

3. He will come and mix up the left over of that revival and become their leader and gradually replaces all those thing done by those that brought that revival which waxed them strong and replace them with man-made version.

The same thing devil tactics was applied to the church that came from Israel. Devil tried to kill,maim, destroy, etc Christians but they still wax strong, he withdraw and started encouraging them until all the apostles died. He went and gave vision to king Constantine who used to kill Christians as vision of cross after which the man became christian and forced everybody whether pegan,heathen,etc to become christians and they conveyed council in AD 325-328, by that council foundation of marriage between church and devil was lain spiritually.

Continued...

They later converted roman feasts, traditions, wears as official church ceremonies as ;
1) The worship of sun god to Christ-mass.

2)The 40 days fast in wait of Semiramis whom pig killed or so to wait for his resurrection(by ancient Babylon) was now turned into Ishtar (Easter), though Christ has given us only one celebration to do which is his death till he comes back.

3) Now instead of Repentance-water baptism, Holy Ghost baptism and Sanctification they introduced;
Baptism - Holy Eucharist - Confirmation - Holy Orders - Extreme Unction - Penance - Matrimony which anybody can do easily without Gods spirit or repentance.

4) Acient Rome has some rituals they perform where they convert the body of cow into the real body of a god.
The invoked John 6:40-56 to mean that you goto market you buy bread and the priest will invoke God into the bread and people will start worshiping and today that is the center of catholic worship because you must see God you are worshiping. They will kill you if you start telling them how real communion is to be done.

5) Priest everywhere now dress like roman prince, bishop now dress like roman king, cardinal(Prince of the church) now Hair apparent to pope.

6) Now what is the color of that bread and what is that which is called monstrance which they used to carry it.
I have seen unleavened bread and its color but where did catholic church got disc like (moon like) bread and sun/eye like monstrance?
They still want to point you to moon/sun (Jer 44:19).

7) Any catholic priest who tries to revert some of these things, they will persecute you until they throw you out of catholic church.
Tell me any saint of God catholic church didn't persecute.
Go and ask Rev Fr edeh, Njoku,Mbaka etc what they passed through because their catholic system wants to remove Pentecostal power from the church completely such that they will now make a church(a gathering of the corpse by Rev Fr Njoku) and you think they are Christians.

You have to acknowledge that something has gone wrong in the churches(catholic, Pentecostal,winner,alike), but it is better you become a christian before you starting looking for church to join. There God will point to you the church God has taught the pastor what you lack and when to leave that church he will tell you until you become like him.

No church name will ever save you! The argument about we are the only this and that of course you know it came from from devil to keep you with things that will never give you salvation.

btoks:

Tell me,how does the Catholic Church lead people to worship satan?
by the way, where do you expect catholics to go after they leave the CC? I'm assuming it's your church - what's the name of your church?

Am not here to speak ill of catholic church of which am a member though not in the order of Rome but in the order of Israel(Apostles) but am here approve that we have good catholic members and priest like I was before but the main problem is that the system will not help you to depend on Christ for your salvation.
A friend of mine sent me some list of things Mary can do for her and I told her that if Mary can do all these you don't need Jesus.

Am against the roman,Anglican,redeemed,Pentecostal,etc system not members but Christ system is only approved.

blackbriar:


the doctrine of purgatory is biblical ,the protestants refuse to accept that book as part of the bibile after lutheran movement

It is appointed unto man to die once, after that is Judgement. purgatory is a false doctrine, and it gives a false assurance.

Omoluabi16:
It is appointed unto man to die once, after that is Judgement. purgatory is a false doctrine, and it gives a false assurance.

Yes it gives false assurance of salvation,you are right!

To add more practical explanation:
I heard one lady who said she cant go to heaven and hell now if she dies,she is sure that she will goto purgatory.

That is what bolted the catholic church to man(priest) because if you are dieing and priest was called and minister oil and holy communion to you heaven is assured,the priest themselves dont even know what salvation looks like.
That is why burial and funeral ceremony done by bishops/rev fr is revered by most catholic,because if you are in purgatory their prayers will bring them out.
But they couldnt pray pope John paul 2 now saint John paul 2 out of where he is now.

Purgatory is here on earth before you die. You must be purged of all your sins before death if you want to make heaven because nothing inpure goes to heaven.

If you believe such lies as this you are already marked with mark of beast for its for rich,poor,free and bond etc who submite to anti Christ doctrines.

That is why Book of Roman says after death comes judgement.

I confronted one jiganut carismatic leader and he was sincere to admit that these problems were caused by the church but I believe because of his office he will not freely speak as me.

doyinbaby:
There a number of false doctrines catholic church example these Mary ,Mary ,Mary doctrine

we dnt worship her...we honour her as mother of christ

When God it was time for God to come and restore the fallen world he came inform of a fallen man such that He could preach to us with human voice and used day to day activities in order to refer how kingdom of God is like.

After the marriage between the state and the church between 325-328, the church produced offersprings that are neither christians nor pegans.
When it was time to restore the church back to its righfull position,he used Martin Luther amongst others who was a strong defender of the church,a catholic priest. He first went and got married to a Nun in order cancel most of the lies he was taught om ceribercy.

He suceeded in giving bible to lay-men that was the light God called him to shine speaking mostly of Faith im christ. After that we saw somebody he used John Winsley from anglican he shine light of gospel God gave to him speaking mostly of holiness. Till today God is still restoring the church as it is in the upper room,an assembly of believers yoked in love of Christ teaching gospel of christ for salavation of those that believe. No sinner will come in their midst except he/she repents or willing to repent.

So if you still condemn Martin Luther as your catholic wrote history about him then it would rather be unfortunate in this age of Information technology for someone to take one sided reports.

mhiztwinky23:
we dnt worship her...we honour her as mother of christ

Leviticus 20:6 says if you consult the spirit of the death He will cut you off amongst his children.
You have to leave the people that have died to rest till judgement else familiar spirit will be talking to you but you wont know.
If you check the messages that your mary give you will discover it contradicts the bible.
In the religious worship,you praise God you praise Mary and you dont think it is another style of worshiping her?

Then you need to tell yourself the truth.
Most charismatics dont believe all that.

luckyCO:


Yes it gives false assurance of salvation,you are right!

To add more practical explanation:
I heard one lady who said she cant go to heaven and hell now if she dies,she is sure that she will goto purgatory.

That is what bolted the catholic church to man(priest) because if you are dieing and priest was called and minister oil and holy communion to you heaven is assured,the priest themselves dont even know what salvation looks like.
That is why burial and funeral ceremony done by bishops/rev fr is revered by most catholic,because if you are in purgatory their prayers will bring them out.
But they couldnt pray pope John paul 2 now saint John paul 2 out of where he is now.

Purgatory is here on earth before you die. You must be purged of all your sins before death if you want to make heaven because nothing inpure goes to heaven.

If you believe such lies as this you are already marked with mark of beast for its for rich,poor,free and bond etc who submite to anti Christ doctrines.

That is why Book of Roman says after death comes judgement.

I confronted one jiganut carismatic leader and he was sincere to admit that these problems were caused by the church but I believe because of his office he will not freely speak as me.

Thank you sir! if purgatory existed, then that's like having two lives. Of course I'd do unthinkable things, live a careless life and say oh purgatory will help. One life, one death, on final destination.

mhiztwinky23:
we dnt worship her...we honour her as mother of christ

Mary can't save you.. I beg you follow Jesus alone. In his 33yrs on earth he never made reference to the divinity of his earthly mother. No matter how long you been in the Catholic, please reexamine your beliefs everyday.

Omoluabi16:
Mary can't save you.. I beg you follow Jesus alone. In his 33yrs on earth he never made reference to the divinity of his earthly mother. No matter how long you been in the Catholic, please reexamine your beliefs everyday.

You are entitled to your opinion

Just learn to mind your business. Nobody forced you to be a Catholic. Don't disrespect my belief please

godsluvee:
You are entitled to your opinion

Just learn to mind your business. Nobody forced you to be a Catholic. Don't disrespect my belief please

lol. as I see your mention my heart start to cut say you go attack me. never knew you're catholic. In this public forum, it is difficult to mind one's business you know

This is just a discourse, placing the catholic beliefs alongside the Bible teachings to see if there is a contrast. I fail to see how I disrespected your beliefs.
Happy good friday J, how's it going?

martooski:


I HAVE BEING FOLLOWING THIS INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS. I THINK luckyCO has read so many bible passages upside down and downside up... he has however left behind the theology of the same scripture. this part is important for better understanding of t he scripture. One cant just open the bible and read and translate literally, we must also understand what is it that surround what the scripture and even the tradition of those it was written for.

The Bible is a collection of HOLY SCRIPTURE, it was not written at the same time unlike the HOLY QURAN which was a direct message thus it will seem clearer and straight. Am not an apostle that always use the BIBLE to check the imbalance of our world today, The church came before most of the scriptures where compiled. The tradition left us by the apostle was sufficient for early Christians until the advent of electronics ie. printer.

Viewing all the comments for and against Catholicism, it was obvious that the SCRIPTURE is the weapon of attack and defense, i want us all to examine the following verses of the HOLY BIBLE

John 21:25New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.[/b]

2 Thessalonians 2:15New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter [a]from us.[b]

2 Timothy 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.[b][/b]


with the above verses the apostles of Jesus never intended that we are to argue over what is in the scripture or not in it.. the message is always clear Repent from our sins and strive towards holiness.

The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, i believe so are others... so why throw muds at ourself. i want to believe in another writing of Saint Mar k
49“Master, said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”… and i believe when temptations like that comes our way we are to respond like OUR MERCIFUL FATHER.

The Church of Christ is HOLY, APOSTOLIC, and UNIVERSAL.

Thank you

You have said it all. I don't criticise other churches and I don't like people critcising mine. It's painful

Omoluabi16:
lol. as I see your mention my heart start to cut say you go attack me. never knew you're catholic. In this public forum, it is difficult to mind one's business you know

This is just a discourse, placing the catholic beliefs alongside the Bible teachings to see if there is a contrast. I fail to see how I disrespected your beliefs.
Happy good friday J, how's it going?

Your comment made it a bad friday. I'm not happy with you