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Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 1:52pm On May 13, 2017 |
JMAN05:Lol. Do you know the meaning of context dear JMANO5? Let me briefly explain. It means reading the whole chapter of a book to understand a position, and making sure the conclusion derived does not contradict other scriptures. If in anyway, you have a contradiction, do you go with a side that seems to agree with your preconceived opinion? and damn the other? Have you no fear of God? You accuse me of what you do ignorantly You have quoted verses and you have given them your own interpretation without paying attention to biblical facts Do you know your interpretation of this verse is not in harmony with the gospel Paul preached? But do you care that you have made God a liar and author of confusion? The Bible unequivocally states without reservation that SALVATION IS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD. NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST. Ephesians 2:8,9. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23 Can't you see that salvation is a gift? And eternal life a gift? If we go by your interpretation of those verses then salvation cannot be a gift but a reward for living/working right/fighting sin. But the passage that speaks of salvation says it is a gift. What then? Is this race Paul spoke of a means to earn eternal life or the working of the abundance of God's grace in him? Was Paul chewing his own words and asking the church to work for eternal life? When Paul spoke of subjecting his body in order not to be disapproved or a cast away, was he saying, "oh there is a possibility for those who have been freed from sin to continue in sin?" You think it's possible for someone who has been freed from his master sin and made a servant of righteousness to continue to serve his old master of sin? It's not possible! Please Read Romans chapter 6. (I won't highlight any part so you don't say I am picking) [b]What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord[/b] Please read!!! Eternal life is a gift! We have been freed from our old man, sin! We can't continue in sin! We are now servants of righteousness! We are to yield our bodies to God to produce bear fruits to holiness! If we yield our members to sin, the result is death BUT WE THANK GOD WHO HAS FREED US FROM SIN AND MADE US SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. just as we yielded our bodies to our old master sin when we were in the flesh, So are we to submit our members to our new master, righteousness. Can our old master sin still have dominion over us? For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace Romans 6:14. Did Paul say Sin may have dominion over us sometimes? No. But sin cannot have dominion or ownership of us anymore because we have been freed from its rule by grace not by law. How do you subject your body by yourself? Is it not by doing this and not doing that? But there is another way to do that which is by grace. The "doing and not doing this" law keeping attitude is a weak and fruitless way of subjecting or disciplining your body. It cannot lead to glory(the crown of life) but shame and death. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 1Corinthians 15:10 I can do all this through him who gives me strength Philippians 4:43 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it , why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 1Corinthians 4:7 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13 The crown of life certainly cannot be salvation but the glory ahead. How do we partake of the glory ahead without partaking in the sufferings of Christ too? The two of them must go together! Like Paul all Christians must fellowship in Christ's suffering and death. If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:1-6 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Romans 8:18 We are saved by grace and called to this... That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Philippians 3:10 We have a choice or will but our choice is limited and can can only serve sin. It cannot obey God. Please read the whole book of Romans And understand why God gave the law. First of all. The crown of life is not eternal life. Christians have eternal life already. Christians are not enduring death or suffering to earn eternal life but they are suffering because of the love of God in their hearts and the glory ahead. Please look at this Romans 5:1-5. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Who can stand till the end? Only those with hope and the love of God. Who/What is the source of their hope and love? Their wisdom? their carnal strength? Their choice? or God? Can't you see? Can't you perceive? Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25 It's true that we are not to walk according to predestination. Though we know of a fact of God's election or ordained will, we are called to live by faith not predestination. We are not called to "relax" or "live as we want" but we are to walk in grace and do good works. You said what's the purpose of the search if He God has already coded their destiny. Are you kidding me Is this reasonable to you that God does not know the destinies of men? But if by "coded" you mean determined. Then you are saying because God has determined a man's destiny, He cannot then be able to search the man's heart. You definitely don't know what you are saying. Meanwhile. God would judge us according to our deeds in our bodies. True. But the deeds of the righteous are wrought in grace. So they are considered as fruits of the gift of grace or eternal life. There is no room for boasting because it is God's work from beginning to end. The wicked are judged by their deeds too but their works are not according to the gift of grace or eternal life but they are by their sinful flesh and considered dead works. The wicked boast in their works. Their plea is not the blood of Jesus or the finished work of Christ but their works. They want God to usher them into His presence on the basis of their deeds or works and not His free grace. Oh what a waste!!! They had zeal but not according to knowledge! They heard the gospel of free grace but they rejected it and preferred to put their trust in their works! Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by Splinz(m): 3:53pm On May 13, 2017 |
An2elect2: According to An2elect2. This is just one of your blatant fabrications. And indeed, it is such a shame. John 5:26 states: “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself...” and “Who only hath immortality...” (1 Timothy 6:16). These are plain bible verses that shows that God alone is the possessor of immortality/eternal life now! As for His promise of granting eternal life to us, ...“But now we see not yet all things put under him [man]. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man (Hebrews 2:8-9). Like Jesus ,who after doing His Father will was crowned with glory and honour at the end, so has He also promised to give this crown of life to those who also endured to the end (Rev. 2:10, 3:21, Matthew 24:13). Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 states: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory”? Do you grasp this understanding? Eternal life is granted to us at the LAST TRUMP, which herald the arrival of the King of kings to give reward according to each man's works (Rev. 22:12). This is when we are changed from mortals to immortals! This is when you can claim eternal life! Doing so now depicts either ignorance or sheer wishful thinking. Besides, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). Are you now a spirit being? Eternal life is still a promise! (Hebrews 11:39). An2elect2: Story. We are to overcome/endure in order to receive our reward, just like Jesus did. (Revelation 3:21). A winner is not crowned if he/she doesn't play according to the rules! |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 8:34pm On May 13, 2017 |
Splinz:I won't bother countering the falsehood up there cos I perceive you are hardhearted and of course hate the truth. You seek not the truth but a reinforcement of the lies you adore but God will judge all men by the gospel I have preached here, which is Paul's gospel. God bearing me witness I have said all that needs to be said to you. May the Lord have mercy.
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Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 9:51pm On May 13, 2017 |
This thread has made me to re-watch the movie "Predestination," though presented as science fiction, the concept is well illustrated. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 10:01pm On May 13, 2017 |
An2elect2: Isn't that a little egoistic? So you are a Paulian not a Christian? |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 10:36am On May 14, 2017 |
menxer:Lol not true. Paul's gospel is the gospel of God. And no Jew or gentile can be saved without it. Paul called it his gospel because that's the gospel God gave him to preach to the gentiles which is distinct from the one given to the 12. Romans 15:15-19 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Galatians 2:7-8 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. We are to preach Paul's gospel or rather God's gospel 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 11:37am On May 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: what happens to the Gospel of Jesus? |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 12:45pm On May 14, 2017 |
menxer:That's the gospel Paul preached. It's not from Paul but Jesus himself. When Jesus was on earth he ministered only to those of the circumcision, teaching them the Law and the Kingdom of God. The law as a school master that leads us to Christ and the Kingdom of God as a reality after His death. These He commanded His disciples to do too. They were not to leave Jerusalem. (Even when they faced persecution, they still remained there.) But after his ascension, He called and separated Paul to minister to the gentiles the gospel of free grace These gentiles would not be justified by the law but by faith. This, to prove that the righteousness of the law can only be obtained by faith and not by works of the law. So those of the circumcision (to whom Christ preached to) would come to see that those without the Law have the righteousness of the law which they themselves cannot obtain by works. So God is no author of confusion. The disciples with Jesus were not to go to the gentiles with their gospel of the Kingdom so they don't lay another foundation different from God's plan for the gentiles and the remnant of jews. God's plan for us all is for us to be justified by faith in Christ alone apart from the law. Both Jews and gentiles. When you study Romans, you will see that God blinded the Israelites to not believe the gospel Paul preached and be saved (Only few believed) and God provoked them to jealousy by going after the Gentiles that were not seeking Him and granted them true repentance through Paul's gospel. [ Romans chapter 3, chapter 10, and chapter 11. You can even look at the whole book of Romans for clearer understanding] |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 1:44pm On May 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: So Jesus could not preach grace & faith to his own people but directed it be preached to the gentiles? Is that not deception?
Are you understanding this, God blinded the Isrealites not to believe though Jesus came to them and was among them? God provoked Isrealites to jealous and granted gentiles true repentance? Are you serious? If God could do that to his own chosen people, can you imagine what he would do to the gentiles? So the gentiles have supplanted the Isrealites in the divine scheme of things? Very funny. They say God doesn't change yet by this your comment he appears to be very fickle. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 3:25pm On May 14, 2017 |
menxer:Well, if you understand that there cannot be a testament without the testator dying (just like your will cannot be read except you die) you will understand why the gospel of free grace had to be preached(revealed) after Christ's death. Jesus made mention of faith and grace and taught about them mostly in parables (difficult for men to understand) but they were not enforced until after His death. Hebrews 9:15-17 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Yes! Read Romans 9 so you understand why. At the end, they would be brought in. God would through the mercy of the gentiles have mercy upon them. Romans 11. God's people are not natural Jews but Spiritual Israelites. Read Romans 9:23-25. That's why the promise made to Abraham was not through the law but the righteousness of faith Romans 4:13-16 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all [i] God knew/loved His people before the world began. And these people are scattered all over the world. Earthly Israelites were the symbolic representation of the true Israelites (who may or may not be from Israel but are the elect chosen from the foundation of the world) They say God doesn't change yet by this your comment he appears to be very fickle.God is the same yesterday, today and forever. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by Splinz(m): 4:04pm On May 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: How can God judge all men by your false gospel? Where are you even learning these wrong teachings from? Today it is either you're spreading the “gospel of free grace” or tomorrow, the “gospel of Paul”, which are all false! I've told you before that there's nothing like these gospel you peddled around, as there's only one true gospel which is the “gospel of the kingdom of God” (Mark 1:14). This is the one gospel preached by the prophets, Jesus and His apostles both then and now (Luke 16:16). This gospel—good news—message is actually the very core—the centerpiece!—of the entire Bible. It is no wonder then that God used Paul, whom you claimed preached a different gospel, purportedly about grace or peace or whatever, to pronounced a curse upon anyone who would pervert the true gospel. Here: “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we [apostles], or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:6-9). This shows how important the true gospel is! How can you then claimed that Paul brought a different gospel—perverted the true gospel, when he was the one used to pronounced this curse? How can Paul placed a curse on himself? The word gospel is an old English word meaning “god spell” or good news. The word kingdom is also an old English term that means “government.” Therefore, it is accurate to say that Jesus preached “the good news of the government of God.” This government, prophesied and preached throughout the entire Bible will be on earth (Daniel 2:44, 7:18, 22, 27, Matthew 5:5, 6:10, Jude 1:14, Rev 1:6, 5:10, etc). This coming utopian government is indeed, good news! This is the gospel! An2elect2: God bears witness that you have been perverting His gospel, dishing out all forms of fabrications to me. An2elect2: You need the mercy more than I do. Sorry to burst your bubble, going by your many blunders like claiming to have “eternal life now” and others, it is right to say that you have not been CALLED yet. Yes, it has not been given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God! (Matthew 13:11). |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 4:54pm On May 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: The will or testament comes to effect at the death of the testator, that is if the testator dies and remains dead. In this case Jesus is said to have come back to life, does the will still come to effect since the testator in this case is still alive? OK, he died to activate the testament then come back to life, meaning divine law can be circumvented. The law was given to the earthly Israelites but Grace to the spiritual Israelites, right? |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 7:59pm On May 14, 2017 |
menxer:Yes!!!!! |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 9:45pm On May 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: Who gave the law? God Who gave the grace? God Yet it's said God knows the end from the beginning, but didn't know law would not do the work of grace. Makes sense right? |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by ichuka(m): 10:18pm On May 14, 2017 |
menxer:The law was not given for it to be upheld,no it was given in full knowledge for it to be BROKEN!!by so doing,He's finished work on Calvary would be accepted.that is Grace.which is the Gospel. 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 10:48pm On May 14, 2017 |
ichuka: It's the same thing. If the law was given to be "broken" at calvary, grace is equally given to be "broken" at a certain point in time. When the law was given was it stated it was for a period of time? Now that Grace is given is it stated if it is for a period of time? If God knew that the law would be broken at calvary and still gave it, where is wisdom in that? How many centuries was the law in effect before being broken? How many centuries would grace be in effect before it is "broken" by the next paradigm shift? Besides, I guess you followed the arguments before commenting. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 7:18am On May 15, 2017 |
menxer:Lol you are asking me why God ordained means to accomplish all His purposes. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 7:24am On May 15, 2017 |
An2elect2: No that is not my question. Those that recieved the law did not know grace will replace it, we that are in grace now do not know what will replace it. The end is not known, because there is no end but Infinity. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 7:28am On May 15, 2017 |
menxer:Do you believe the Bible? |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 7:36am On May 15, 2017 |
An2elect2: Is that why you avoided answering this: The will or testament comes to effect at the death of the testator, that is if the testator dies and remains dead. In this case Jesus is said to have come back to life, does the will still come to effect since the testator in this case is still alive? OK, he died to activate the testament then comes back to life, meaning divine law can be circumvented? I don't believe the Bible but I believe the Truth wherever I find it. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 9:42am On May 15, 2017 |
menxer:I didn't answer that because I have already. He didn't continue to live on earth after His death. Well you don't believe the Bible that's why you keep wondering why things are not the way you think they should be. But how would we have known being born into this world made sense if we weren't born in the first place. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 10:03am On May 15, 2017 |
Thread derailed |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 12:14pm On May 15, 2017 |
An2elect2: @underlined, you just made that up. I don't wonder why things are not the way I think, as you opined, I seek to know and understand the Truth for myself and that entails studying, asking questions and reasoning. @bolded, it does not answer that question and neither did you at any point. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by ichuka(m): 7:22pm On May 15, 2017 |
menxer:Hmmm, Just found you aren't a believer.because it will be a bit difficult for you to grasp these things. Because the bible is the word of God,and His Words are spirit.nean to understand it one must be in the spirit. Wanted to discuss Galatians 3:15-22 with you.but since you aren't "in" it will result to arguments. 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by 5solas(m): 10:12pm On May 15, 2017 |
An2elect2:The author defines his purpose.He is not saying anything new. Only to give witness that Calvinism-the system that affirms salvation CANNOT be lost is TRUE!Another name for it, he says, is the Reformed Faith.This is the faith of the reformers. They didn't believe salvation could be lost.Calvinism is also synonymous with,"Once Saved, Always Saved",the doctrine of the "Perseverance of the Saints", "Eternal Security", the "Doctrine of Grace, e.t.c
The writer asserts that the doctrine of predestination is given so little attention (in his day). It is even less so now. He asserts the importance of this doctrine which the early reformers were all at one with though they had their disagreements.He states that it was in the creeds of all Protestants. It is in the creeds still of some churches which teach against Calvinism. The creeds of the early Protestants was Calvinistic. In contrast to Calvinism, Armnianism existed as a heresy for centuries! Arminianism is the view that a believer CAN lose salvation. It existed for centuries as a heresy! It was not championed by an organised church until 1784!Imagine that! All notable Christians believed in Predestination and were Calvinistic in their theology. He goes on to commend Calvin for his work on predestination. He also notes rhat Calvinism is not about Calvin but the gospel. 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 9:56am On May 16, 2017 |
ichuka: @underlined, yes that is true, it is "a bit difficult for believers to grasp these things" @bolded, i don't think the tone of my comments is that of anger to warrant you saying that. Galatians 3:15-22 New International Version (NIV) 15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[a] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. from the passage the promise was made to Abraham and his seed no doubt about that, but was Jesus a descendant of Abraham to be counted his seed, since his father was God and not any man descended from Abraham? or are we tracing his lineage to Abraham through the maternal side of the family tree? I know you are convinced that Jesus was conceived by the union of God and Mary, is God a descendant of Abraham? The above scripture can only hold true if Jesus was conceived by the union of Joseph and Mary, which would open another controversy. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by menxer: 10:15am On May 16, 2017 |
An2elect2: that is because the predestination which this thread sets out to discuss predestinated the derailment. |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by 5solas(m): 11:15am On May 16, 2017 |
menxer: It is not derailed though. @An2elect Make your comments on the chapter and let's move on. The focus should be on the book! |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 7:50pm On May 16, 2017 |
menxer: 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 7:52pm On May 16, 2017 |
5solas:Ya we have derailed enough o chai! 1 Like |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by 5solas(m): 8:41pm On May 16, 2017 |
An2elect2: |
Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(f): 5:50pm On May 18, 2017 |
5solas:Is the doctrine of predestination part of the gospel message for unbelievers Sir? Is there a set time to know this doctrine, before or after salvation? |
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