.

Barristter07:


They claimed to have restored the divine name [Four Consonant Letters ] in the scriptures , Not Correct pronunciation ! .. The vowels were inserted for pronunciation sake.

Is the so called more correct form the actual Pronunciation ? You are very much SERIOUSLY DELUDED .

Note the bolded.
Emusan is not here to prove anything, he just feel like exchanging INSULTS with JWs.
So no matter how glaring the points presented, Emusan is contented with the exchange of abusive speeches, he just chose to be arguing blindly since JWs are responding with abusive speeches as well so HE HAS ALREADY NOTICED THE FACTS!

Emusan:


Olodo...
The name was substituted with Adonai or Elohim and the pronunciation was prohibited....
....

The Jews didn't remove the name from the scriptures. When Jesus read the scrolls, he finds the name.

I ask again; tradition to pronunce adonai where the name appears, FROM GOD OR MAN?

Emusan:


The problem of you is that you go to any length to proof rubbish....

Your point was if the apostles quoted LXX where the name appeared they will actually put the name there.

But yet you can't provide where the apostles quoted the LXX where the divine name appeared....

Confused JWs

Besides, it was Origen LXX that matches NT word for word simply because Origen purposely edited it. The funny part was that you're the one who was shouting that the old LXX contained the name.

So which LXX are you using here?

Either LXX or Hebrew text. They FIND THE NAME. That's the point

Barristter07:


Either LXX or Hebrew text. They FIND THE NAME. That's the point

I thought the whole point of the thread was to ask whether 'Jehovah' was the name of the Hebrew deity in the bible. Not whether YHWH is contained in any of the numerous versions of the bible.

When Jesus quoted the Shema did he actual pronounce the word 'Jehovah' to the scribes who were asking or did he use the standard substitution Jews use when they see HWHY?

PastorAIO:


I thought the whole point of the thread was to ask whether 'Jehovah' was the name of the Hebrew deity in the bible. Not whether YHWH is contained in any of the numerous versions of the bible.

When Jesus quoted the Shema did he actual pronounce the word 'Jehovah' to the scribes who were asking or did he use the standard substitution Jews use when they see HWHY?

It's like someone was quoted @ John 17:6,26

Please Sir can you help an interested student to know

*Who spoke those words?
*What's the name he had in mind?
*How should his listeners apply his words?

God bless you Sir!

Maximus69:


It's like someone was quoted @ John 17:6,26

Please Sir can you help an interested student to know

*Who spoke those words?
*What's the name he had in mind?
*How should his listeners apply his words?

God bless you Sir!

I see that you fail to address my enquiry. Well, I can't force you.

I shall try however to answer your questionss.

1- who spoke those words?
Ans- Jesus

2- what is the name he had in mind?
Ans- Yahoo-weeh
But that is my opinion. What about you? Do you believe the name to be Jehovah?

3- how should his listeners apply his words?
He wasn't talking to anybody in that text but God whom he addressed as Father. I presume god is free to apply his words any way he sees fit.

PastorAIO:


I see that you fail to address my enquiry. Well, I can't force you.

I shall try however to answer your questionss.

1- who spoke those words?
Ans- Jesus

2- what is the name he had in mind?
Ans- Yahoo-weeh
But that is my opinion. What about you? Do you believe the name to be Jehovah?

3- how should his listeners apply his words?
He wasn't talking to anybody in that text but God whom he addressed as Father. I presume god is free to apply his words any way he sees fit.

I asked as an interested student Sir, not as one who wish to teach you, it's you that's going to do most of the teaching now.
As for Jehovah's Witnesses, they've made their points clear and it sank deep down my heart, so a better more reasonable opinion can uproot their own!

So
*Are you also making known the name 'Yahooweeh' just as Jesus did in his lifetime?
*According to 2Timothy 3:16-17, whatever is RECORDED is PROFITABLE for Christians to make use for Doctrines, Reproof, Correction and Instruction in Righteousness, so that a Christian could be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works!
So if Jesus said he has made his father's name known during prayer to his Father, should Christians emulate him?

I remembered God said 'this is my beloved son, listen to him' {Matthew 17:5} and it evident Jesus never prayed with his followers until then {John 17:8,9} because John was so exited that he penned down every word Jesus uttered!

*So why do you think God's Holy Spirit directed this gospel writer to purposely record such an event { John 14:26 compared to 2Peter 1:21} if it's just between Jesus and his father alone?

Maximus69:


I asked as an interested student Sir, not as one who wish to teach you, it's you that's going to do most of the teaching now.
As for Jehovah's Witnesses, they've made their points clear and it sank deep down my heart, so a better more reasonable opinion can uproot their own!

If you want to be a student I'm sure there are numerous course that you can apply to attend. I did not come here to teach. I came here because I noticed that instead of having a frank conversation in good faith, there was a lot of ducking and somersaulting and avoiding questions, and even yabis. That's I'm trying to bring the conversation back to the original topic of the thread which is whether Jehovah is the name of the Hebrew deity.

PastorAIO:


I thought the whole point of the thread was to ask whether 'Jehovah' was the name of the Hebrew deity in the bible. Not whether YHWH is contained in any of the numerous versions of the bible.

When Jesus quoted the Shema did he actual pronounce the word 'Jehovah' to the scribes who were asking or did he use the standard substitution Jews use when they see HWHY?

I notice that you seem to be running away from an honest discussion addressing the topic. If I ask you a question, you refuse to answer and instead pile up lots of questions for me which are irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Maximus69:



So
*Are you also making known the name 'Yahooweeh' just as Jesus did in his lifetime?

No I'm not. What has that got to do with anything we are discussing? This is part of the bad faith that I'm talking about.

*According to 2Timothy 3:16-17, whatever is RECORDED is PROFITABLE for Christians to make use for Doctrines, Reproof, Correction and Instruction in Righteousness, so that a Christian could be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works!
So if Jesus said he has made his father's name known during prayer to his Father, should Christians emulate him?

This is irrelevant too. How can you make a name known when you don't even know the name. Shouldn't Jesus first make the name known to you before you start to jump upandan to make the name known to others.

I remembered God said 'this is my beloved son, listen to him' {Matthew 17:5} and it evident Jesus never prayed with his followers until then {John 17:8,9} because John was so exited that he penned down every word Jesus uttered!

Another problem that I've noticed amongst your lot is that you tend to fabricate a lot of issues and then apply it to your theology. But don't worry, your case is not as bad as that of the person that told me that Jewishness cannot be passed through a woman because in their village in Imo State inheritance is Patrilineal from the Father so for the Jews it must be the same. Despite the fact that Jewishness is actually inherited through the Mother. This tendency to take a parochial ignorance and apply to your understanding of a different foreign culture instead of learning about the culture with humility.

That is a total invention that Jesus never prayed with his followers before. It's shocking that you claim to be a believer in Jesus yet you are so ready to lie on his head.
So you mean that all the time that Jesus was going to synagogue to teach he never prayed together with his followers. Or in your belief is communal prayer not a part of Jewish religion? Was Jesus not a practicing Jew?
What about John 11;41-42? was he praying in secret there?
John was so excited, my foot!

*So why do you think God's Holy Spirit directed this gospel writer to purposely record such an event { John 14:26 compared to 2Peter 1:21} if it's just between Jesus and his father alone?

I will attempt to answer this if you can explain to me how it is relevant and applicable to the topic of this discussion. Namely, Is Jehovah the real name of the Hebrew deity.

Maybe Gian Giorgio Trissino invented the JW god and the name Jehovah in the 16th century.

After all it was he who invented the letter J. There was no such thing as 'J' in the English language before he invented it. So therefore Jehovah god is a 16th century invention.

PastorAIO:
Maybe Gian Giorgio Trissino invented the JW god and the name Jehovah in the 16th century.

After all it was he who invented the letter J. There was no such thing as 'J' in the English language before he invented it. So therefore Jehovah god is a 16th century invention.

Well i'm not interested in fruitless talks Sir!
What really matters to me is things
*True
*Honest
*Just
*Pure
*Lovely
*Good report
*Virtuous
*Praiseworthy Philippians 4:8

Jehovah's Witnesses have been around since then Sir and today, the organization has succeeded in making the fruits recorded at Galatians 5:22-23 circulate their group. I believe Apostles Paul's concluding words Sir
'against such, there is no law'
So whatever anyone thinks about the name JEHOVAH is of no significance anymore as long as the group using the name are solving problems within themselves such that's devastating all other groups like RACISM and POLITICS! Matthew 7:15-20

That you were not interested in this issue is clearly evident from the start. You have no care for the truth, you just want to promote your cult by anybnefarious means whatsoever.

I cannot stop you from that. As Revelation 22:11 put it, continue with whatever you're doing.

Where you'll come into trouble is when you step outside of your world of lies and deceit and attempt to buttress your delusions with real historical facts. That is when I'll come out to disgrace you until you run back to saying 'it doesn't matter 'what anyone thinks of Jehovah is insignificant'. It must be insignificant for you because you tried to make it significant and failed.

Maximus69:


Well i'm not interested in fruitless talks Sir!
What really matters to me is things
*True
*Honest
*Just
*Pure
*Lovely
*Good report
*Virtuous
*Praiseworthy Philippians 4:8

Jehovah's Witnesses have been around since then Sir and today, the organization has succeeded in making the fruits recorded at Galatians 5:22-23 circulate their group. I believe Apostles Paul's concluding words Sir
'against such, there is no law'
So whatever anyone thinks about the name JEHOVAH is of no significance anymore as long as the group using the name are solving problems within themselves such that's devastating all other groups like RACISM and POLITICS! Matthew 7:15-20

PastorAIO:

That you were not interested in this issue is clearly evident from the start. You have no care for the truth, you just want to promote your cult by anybnefarious means whatsoever.

I cannot stop you from that. As Revelation 22:11 put it, continue with whatever you're doing.

Where you'll come into trouble is when you step outside of your world of lies and deceit and attempt to buttress your delusions with real historical facts. That is when I'll come out to disgrace you until you run back to saying 'it doesn't matter 'what anyone thinks of Jehovah is insignificant'. It must be insignificant for you because you tried to make it significant and failed.

OK, it's all lies but throughout the earth, that's the one and only organization that's able to unite people from all races!

Haba, if it's lies i believe Jesus will judge when he returns!

Revelations 22:11 says
Let everyone continue doing what they knows best!
Jehovah's Witnesses have been doing just that and the whole earth can feel the intensity of their good works.
So Pastor,
Get to work Sir.

Your faith without works is dead! James 2:18-26

You can mention me again if you have something to say about whether Jehovah is the real name of the Hebrew god. Till then continue to promote your pardophile cult elsewhere but don't mention me with it.

Maximus69:


OK, it's all lies but throughout the earth, that's the one and only organization that's able to unite people from all races!

Haba, if it's lies i believe Jesus will judge when he returns!

Revelations 22:11 says
Let everyone continue doing what they knows best!
Jehovah's Witnesses have been doing just that and the whole earth can feel the intensity of their good works.
So Pastor,
Get to work Sir.

Your faith without works is dead! James 2:18-26

PastorAIO:
You can mention me again if you have something to say about whether Jehovah is the real name of the Hebrew god. Till then continue to promote your pardophile cult elsewhere but don't mention me with it.

Whatever Pastor, WHATEVER! 1Peter 2:12,3:15

PastorAIO:
Maybe Gian Giorgio Trissino invented the JW god and the name Jehovah in the 16th century.

After all it was he who invented the letter J. There was no such thing as 'J' in the English language before he invented it. So therefore Jehovah god is a 16th century invention.

PastorAIO:
You can mention me again if you have something to say about whether Jehovah is the real name of the Hebrew god.

Your hypocrisy tie wrapper.
How come letter 'J' came to be your Jesus?
Is that his real name?
So, your Jesus is not "a 16th century invention"?

Janosky:


Your hypocrisy tie wrapper.
How come letter 'J' came to be your Jesus?
Is that his real name?
So, your Jesus is not "a 16th century invention"?

He's searching for preys that will contribute money for him to buy his own private jet!

Ole of the highest order! Jesus warns against title bearings yet he chooses to be addressed as 'Pastor'!

Let him continue in his futile nightmares, and we continue in what all eyes can see! Matthew 5:14-16

PastorAIO:


I thought the whole point of the thread was to ask whether 'Jehovah' was the name of the Hebrew deity in the bible. Not whether YHWH is contained in any of the numerous versions of the bible.

When Jesus quoted the Shema did he actual pronounce the word 'Jehovah' to the scribes who were asking or did he use the standard substitution Jews use when they see HWHY?

Did Jesus actually pronounce "Yahooweeh"?

He was not enslaved by man made traditions or "rules of men" . Mark7:7,8.

** Where is the scriptural edict to substitute YHWH for Adonai?

Jesus can not quote the (OT ) Deut 6:4 in Mark12:29 or quote Deut 8:3 in Matt4:10 & omit YHWH , for adonai.

*** For example, Mark 12:28-30...
28 One of the Scribes approached him and
he heard them debating and he saw that he
had answered them beautifully and he
asked him, "Which is the first
commandment of all?" 29 Yeshua said to
him, "The first of all the commandments:
'Hear Israel, THE LORD JEHOVAH your God,
THE LORD JEHOVAH, he is One.' " 30 "'And
you shall love THE LORD JEHOVAH your
God with your whole heart and with your
entire soul and with your entire mind and
with all your power.' This is the first
commandment"
***

Janosky:


Your hypocrisy tie wrapper.
How come letter 'J' came to be your Jesus?
Is that his real name?
So, your Jesus is not "a 16th century invention"?

Because after Guan Trissino invented the letter J, it was used to spell J-E-S-U-S. The year he did so was 1524. If you care you might do some research.

It therefore follows that that is not the original spelling of his name.

Janosky:

Did Jesus actually pronounce "Yahooweeh"?

I have no idea.

He was not enslaved by man made traditions or "rules of men" . Mark7:7,8.

** Where is the scriptural edict to substitute YHWH for Adonai?

The reason the Jews do not pronounce the name of HWHY anyhow is because of this passage in Exodus 20.

7“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Jesus can not quote the (OT ) Deut 6:4 in Mark12:29 or quote Deut 8:3 in Matt4:10 & omit YHWH , for adonai.

*** For example, Mark 12:28-30...
28 One of the Scribes approached him and
he heard them debating and he saw that he
had answered them beautifully and he
asked him, "Which is the first
commandment of all?" 29 Yeshua said to
him, "The first of all the commandments:
'Hear Israel, THE LORD JEHOVAH your God,
THE LORD JEHOVAH, he is One.' " 30 "'And
you shall love THE LORD JEHOVAH your
God with your whole heart and with your
entire soul and with your entire mind and
with all your power.' This is the first
commandment"
***

That passage there is called the Shema and it wasn't Jesus that established that as the greatest commandment in the bible. The Jews already esteemed that passage to the point that it is the most important prayer in Judaism. It is a declaration of the Oneness of YHWH, and it's parallel can be found in Islam as the Shahada.

I would presume that Jesus would have pronounced it the same way that every Jew pronounces it in their DAILY prayers.

Shema Yisrael (or Sh'ma Yisrael; Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל; "Hear, [O] Israel" is a prayer. It is also the first two words of a section of the Torah, and is the title (better known as The Shema) of a prayer that serves as a centerpiece of the morning and evening Jewish prayer services. The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

PastorAIO:

I have no idea.



The reason the Jews do not pronounce the name of HWHY anyhow is because of this passage in Exodus 20.

7“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.





That passage there is called the Shema and it wasn't Jesus that established that as the greatest commandment in the bible. The Jews already esteemed that passage to the point that it is the most important prayer in Judaism. It is a declaration of the Oneness of YHWH, and it's parallel can be found in Islam as the Shahada.

I would presume that Jesus would have pronounced it the same way that every Jew pronounces it in their DAILY prayers.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

Mr Pastor!

So what exactly has Jesus come to do if he's just to continue in their old superstitious and traditions?

Do you truthfully believe that the young Nazarene is the only begotten son of God who knows better than anyone else?

If you truly want an answer to these questions then open a thread for them.

Right here we are discussing Jehovah and whether it can be the name of the Hebrew god. All evidence tell us it isn't.

The only people butt hurt by this fact are those that want to make a big deal out of extolling this fake name, and even use it as a title for their paedophilic cult.
Realising now that the name is a fake name you tried to say it doesn't matter but we see through you.

Maximus69:

Mr Pastor!

So what exactly has Jesus come to do if he's just to continue in their old superstitious and traditions?

Do you truthfully believe that the young Nazarene is the only begotten son of God who knows better than anyone else?

PastorAIO:


I thought the whole point of the thread was to ask whether 'Jehovah' was the name of the Hebrew deity in the bible. Not whether YHWH is contained in any of the numerous versions of the bible.

When Jesus quoted the Shema did he actual pronounce the word 'Jehovah' to the scribes who were asking or did he use the standard substitution Jews use when they see HWHY?

Jesus will never use substitution, A Substitution will directly be an act of hypocrisy , Surrendering to the tradition of man which he himself speak against. Which was why I asked earlier: Superstition not to pronounce the name of God ... From God or Man ?





No one claims Jehovah or Yahweh is the correct pronunciation. - Same way other Hebrew names in English were never the Original pronounciation, either Jeremiah, Jeroboam, Jehonadab. But all these names though not the original pronounciation when used in English Reveal or point to the identity of the persons involved . The same way an English Speaker hears the name " Jehovah " and his or her mind goes to the Creator

The discussion got a shift due to someone who claimed Yahweh is more correct and should be chosen over Jehovah, which begs the question: Is Yahweh the actual pronunciation ? Neither your own form of Yahooweh is more correct.

So it eventually boils down to pronounciation in Each persons dialect.

Please read through my last couple of post. They treat all what you have said below. Since you admit that Jehovah is wrong but it doesn't matter because people know who it refers to, so also when Jews and Christians say Adonai they know who they are referring to.

At the moment you sound like you're saying everybody is wrong but your error is less erroneous than other people's error. And you receive a divine favour for your own error, but others are damned for their error.

Btw if god wanted you to know how to call his name wouldn't he have given it to you (to regurgitate one of your arguments and serve it back to you)?

Barristter07:


Jesus will never use substitution, A Substitution will directly be an act of hypocrisy , Surrendering to the tradition of man which he himself speak against. Which was why I asked earlier: Superstition not to pronounce the name of God ... From God or Man ?





No one claims Jehovah or Yahweh is the correct pronunciation. - Same way other Hebrew names in English were never the Original pronounciation, either Jeremiah, Jeroboam, Jehonadab. But all these names though not the original pronounciation when used in English Reveal or point to the identity of the persons involved . The same way an English Speaker hears the name " Jehovah " and his or her mind goes to the Creator

The discussion got a shift due to someone who claimed Yahweh is more correct and should be chosen over Jehovah, which begs the question: Is Yahweh the actual pronunciation ? Neither your own form of Yahooweh is more correct.

So it eventually boils down to pronounciation in Each persons dialect.

PastorAIO:
If you truly want an answer to these questions then open a thread for them.

Right here we are discussing Jehovah and whether it can be the name of the Hebrew god. All evidence tell us it isn't.

The only people butt hurt by this fact are those that want to make a big deal out of extolling this fake name, and even use it as a title for their paedophilic cult.
Realising now that the name is a fake name you tried to say it doesn't matter but we see through you.

I don't open threads Sir because that's not the work Jesus asked us to do for him!

We're just answering those who are accusing us for putting faith in what we know.

JEHOVAH is the name of our God, his son is Jesus and all the promises Jesus gave us we're experiencing it now!

So there's no accusations levelled against us can remove JEHOVAH'S name from our mouth! Jeremiah 23:27,

PastorAIO:
Please read through my last couple of post. They treat all what you have said below. Since you admit that Jehovah is wrong but it doesn't matter because people know who it refers to, so also when Jews and Christians say Adonai they know who they are referring to.

You are not making any sense

Adonai is a title applied to people other than God, In Christianity Jesus is also called Lord, which breeds the ground for the False doctrine of trinity and modality

At the moment you sound like you're saying everybody is wrong but your error is less erroneous than other people's error. And you receive a divine favour for your own error, but others are damned for their error.

Btw if god wanted you to know how to call his name wouldn't he have given it to you (to regurgitate one of your arguments and serve it back to you)?

Apply the same to every other English names in the Bible and let's see If correct pronunciation is the rule .

*

PastorAIO:


Because after Guan Trissino invented the letter J, it was used to spell J-E-S-U-S. The year he did so was 1524. If you care you might do some research.

It therefore follows that that is not the original spelling of his name.

You have no issues with letter 'J' being used for Jesus though not his real name. In the same vein, YHWH is spelt with a 'J', why get so worked up & ridicule it ?

PastorAIO:

I have no idea.



The reason the Jews do not pronounce the name of HWHY anyhow is because of this passage in Exodus 20.

7“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.





That passage there is called the Shema and it wasn't Jesus that established that as the greatest commandment in the bible. The Jews already esteemed that passage to the point that it is the most important prayer in Judaism. It is a declaration of the Oneness of YHWH, and it's parallel can be found in Islam as the Shahada.

I would presume that Jesus would have pronounced it the same way that every Jew pronounces it in their DAILY prayers.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

Since you agree with the Jews that calling God's real name YHWH in prayers of the Shema amounts to using that name in vain (the Jews twisting Exodus 20:7), then it follows that the Jewish prayers of the Shema without YHWH amounts to praying in vain.... ( Why? Because not only YHWH is holy ,even the other words of the Shema are holy too in the context of the prayer & should not be used in vain !!).