felixomor:

He didnt write rubbish.
You are the one making a mockery of the small medical knowledge u have

Okay, this is for certifying a patient brain dead in America.

Examiner(s) — The number and the expertise of the examiners required to make a brain death varies by state and country [4,5]. Some states (eg, Virginia) specifically require the physician to be a specialist in the neurosciences, while others (Alaska, Georgia) give authority to nurses with subsequent certification by a physician. States and countries also differ as to whether more than one physician is required to certify a patient as brain dead

CatfishBilly:

Okay, this is for certifying a patient brain dead in America.

Now you have exposed yourself
Was the person in charge of this case, short of such qualification required to make the diagnosis?

felixomor:


Answer the question
What device do they use to "certify" brain death?
The answer is simple

Nobody asks for what comes into play?

There's no device used.
The three essential findings in brain death are coma, absence of brainstem reflexes, and apnoea, that's all you need.



Every other thing is ancillary tests like EEG, cerebral angiography, nuclear scan, TCD, CTA, and MRI/MRA

CatfishBilly:

There's no device used.
The three essential findings in brain death are coma, absence of brainstem reflexes, and apnoea, that's all you need.



Every other thing is ancillary tests like EEG, cerebral angiography, nuclear scan, TCD, CTA, and MRI/MRA

Good
Those 3 things you listed
Were they in this patient?

Yes or Nay

felixomor:


Now you have exposed yourself
Was the person in charge of this case, short of such qualification required to make the diagnosis?

I never said the person was short, my question was was he CERTIFIED?
Because in the US, a patient is certified brain dead by a doctor. And from the story, he wasn't.

CatfishBilly:

I never said the person was short, my question was was he CERTIFIED?
Because in the US, a patient is certified brain dead by a doctor. And from the story, he wasn't.

Read the question above
The factors for brain death were they in the patient?

felixomor:

Good
Those 3 things you listed
Were they in this patient?

Yes or Nay

Nope cos no where in the article was it written that apnoeaof test was performed on him to determine if he's brain dead or not.

CatfishBilly:

Nope cos no where in the article was it written that apnoeaof test was performed on him to determine if he's brain dead or not.

Apnoea what?

felixomor:


Apnoea what?

Apnoea test. It wasn't performed to certify him brain dead. The article didn't say so.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2824942/

felixomor:


Read the question above
The factors for brain death were they in the patient?

You get time o. I promised myself not to waste my time responding to someone who says his house job was different from the rest and even claimed he did his house job 2 years after graduation without knowing that a house job is meant to be done the 1st year after graduating from medical school and it's called senior house man or senior house officer when done 2 years after graduating medical school.

How did he not know this? Why say he did his house job 2 years after graduation when it is called senior house man for those who did it after 2years?

Mbok I am both shocked and Confused.

See his comment

I didn't school in Nigeria,I was already 2 years post graduation before coming back to do my house job

He called it house job for someone who was already 2 years post graduation and somehow by some stroke of confusion Abi na forgetfulness did not know that for such persons who are 2 years post graduation it's called senior house man or senior house officer and not house job. House job is for junior doctors or those who are 1 year post graduation.

Felixomor you get time well well.

butterflylion:


You get time o. I promised myself not to waste my time responding to someone who says his house job was different from the rest and even claimed he did his house job 2 years after graduation without knowing that a house job is meant to be done the 1st year after graduating from medical school and it's called senior house man or senior house officer when done 2 years after graduating medical school.

How did he not know this? Why say he did his house job 2 years after graduation when it is called senior house man for those who did it after 2years?

Mbok I am both shocked and Confused.

See his comment
[/b]

He called it house job for someone who was already 2 years post graduation and somehow by some stroke of confusion Abi na forgetfulness did not know that for such persons who are 2 years post graduation it's called senior house man or senior house officer and not house job. House job is for junior doctors or those who are 1 year post graduation.

Felixomor you get time well well.

LMAO

butterflylion:


You get time o. I promised myself not to waste my time responding to someone who says his house job was different from the rest and even claimed he did his house job 2 years after graduation without knowing that a house job is meant to be done the 1st year after graduating from medical school and it's called senior house man or senior house officer when done 2 years after graduating medical school.

How did he not know this? Why say he did his house job 2 years after graduation when it is called senior house man for those who did it after 2years?

Mbok I am both shocked and Confused.

See his comment
[/b]

He called it house job for someone who was already 2 years post graduation and somehow by some stroke of confusion Abi na forgetfulness did not know that for such persons who are 2 years post graduation it's called senior house man or senior house officer and not house job. House job is for junior doctors or those who are 1 year post graduation.

Felixomor you get time well well.

Doesn't matter how long you spent post graduation, if you're doing your housemanship in Nigeria, it's called House job.
Stop embarrassing yourself, what you don't know ask.

People 10years post graduation go to America and do housemanship/internship again from the beginning.
I don't know where you're getting your putrid information from.

CatfishBilly:

Doesn't matter how long you spent post graduation, if you're doing your housemanship in Nigeria, it's called House job.
Stop embarrassing yourself, what you don't know ask.

People 10years post graduation go to America and do housemanship/internship again from the beginning.
I don't know where you're getting your putrid information from.

Hehehehe, house job after 10 years post grad....

Anyway,
Cant u see you are on the defence now?
You see how it easy it was for the op to make you look like a quack?

felixomor:


LMAO

You see am ba?

felixomor:

Hehehehe, house job after 10 years post grad....

Anyway,
Cant u see you are on the defence now?
You see how it easy it was for the op to make you look like a quack?

Me on the defence? Never
Butterflylion is just busy spilling falsehood. I can't standby and watch someone who calls himself a Christian lie blatantly.


Since housemanship is being a problem, let me break it down.
Part of the requirements required for full registration in Nigeria and America is the completion of an internship/house job program. No matter how many years post graduation, as far as you have just MBBS, you're doing that housemanship, there's no discrimination of senior or junior house officer, you're a bloody house officer.

felixomor:

Hehehehe, house job after 10 years post grad....

Anyway,
Cant u see you are on the defence now?
You see how it easy it was for the op to make you look like a quack?

He is a herbal practitioner. A naturopathic doctor. Quote me anytime any day. He want me to quote him but na lie I will not.

Pride will not allow him see how shamelessly he is scrubbing the floor with himself.

CatfishBilly:

Me on the defence? Never
Butterflylion is just busy spilling falsehood. I can't standby and watch someone who calls himself a Christian lie blatantly.


Since housemanship is being a problem, let me break it down.
Part of the requirements required for full registration in Nigeria and America is the completion of an internship/house job program. No matter how many years post graduation, as far as you have just MBBS, you're doing that housemanship, there's no discrimination of senior or junior house officer, you're a bloody house officer.

Please dont disgrace Yourself more
There is a stipulated time frame for completing house job after medical school.
Quietly admit your mistake

The op caught u on that one flat footed

felixomor:


Please dont disgrace Yourself more
There is a stipulated time frame for completing house job after medical school.
Quietly admit your mistake

The op caught u on that one flat footed

I was talking about those that didn't study in Nigeria and America that want to practice in those countries. As far as you have MBBS only, no matter how many years post graduation, you're doing housemanship. If your provisional license expires, you get a new one.
You're a doctor naa I shouldn't be explaining all these to you.
You're a doctor, right?
Housemanship is completed in one year, everyone knows that

So, so far, we've been able to establish that.
1) Doctors in America certify a patient brain dead despite butterflylion claim to the contrary.
2) Dr. Eben wasn't certified brain dead by his doctors.
3) Brain death is an irreversible process, there's no way Dr. Eben would have been brain dead and regained full neurological function.
4) Felixomor is yet to show me my foolish EEG facts.
5) People experiencing NDE can't perceive time which explains why Dr. Eben thinks he was in an NDE for 7 days.
6) The best explanation for Dr. Eben case was that he experienced his NDE as he was regaining cortical function as explained by a neurologist Professor Oliver Wolf Sacks in this link.https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millennium/266134/
7)EEG aren't really needed to certify a patient brain dead
8.) Still waiting for something tangible.
9) Butterflylion and Felixomor have no clue on how Nigerian housemanship works.

CatfishBilly:
So, so far, we've been able to establish that.
1) Doctors in America certify a patient brain dead despite butterflylion claim to the contrary.
2) Dr. Eben wasn't certified brain dead by his doctors.
3) Brain death is an irreversible process, there's no way Dr. Eben would have been brain dead and regained full neurological function.
4) Felixomor is yet to show me my foolish EEG facts.
5) People experiencing NDE can't perceive time which explains why Dr. Eben thinks he was in an NDE for 7 days.
6) The best explanation for Dr. Eben case was that he experienced his NDE as he was regaining cortical function as explained by a neurologist Professor Oliver Wolf Sacks in this link.https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millennium/266134/
7) Still waiting for something tangible.

Someone who is septic had multiple reports of no brain activity.
Yet u want them to tell u pure before u know he had no brain activity.

Please show me a patient who came back from such state without permanent fatality?

You want them to have performed an apnea test which is even preliminary at best on a septic patient...
And you think that made sense.?

Its enough, dont reduce yourself further

CatfishBilly:
So, so far, we've been able to establish that.
1) Doctors in America certify a patient brain dead despite butterflylion claim to the contrary.
2) Dr. Eben wasn't certified brain dead by his doctors.
3) Brain death is an irreversible process, there's no way Dr. Eben would have been brain dead and regained full neurological function.
4) Felixomor is yet to show me my foolish EEG facts.
5) People experiencing NDE can't perceive time which explains why Dr. Eben thinks he was in an NDE for 7 days.
6) The best explanation for Dr. Eben case was that he experienced his NDE as he was regaining cortical function as explained by a neurologist Professor Oliver Wolf Sacks in this link.https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millennium/266134/
7)EEG aren't really needed to certify a patient brain dead
8.) Still waiting for something tangible.

Hmmmm. You won my respect for not flying into a rage like other atheists here do. You maintained your cool and presented your points, whether they were valid or not, that's inconsequential to me.
You are a man.

Weldone.

CatfishBilly:
So, so far, we've been able to establish that.
1) Doctors in America certify a patient brain dead despite butterflylion claim to the contrary.
2) Dr. Eben wasn't certified brain dead by his doctors.
3) Brain death is an irreversible process, there's no way Dr. Eben would have been brain dead and regained full neurological function.
4) Felixomor is yet to show me my foolish EEG facts.
5) People experiencing NDE can't perceive time which explains why Dr. Eben thinks he was in an NDE for 7 days.
6) The best explanation for Dr. Eben case was that he experienced his NDE as he was regaining cortical function as explained by a neurologist Professor Oliver Wolf Sacks in this link.https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millennium/266134/
7)EEG aren't really needed to certify a patient brain dead
8.) Still waiting for something tangible.

Might be waiting a while for 8

felixomor:


Someone who is septic had multiple reports of no brain activity.
Yet u want them to tell u pure before u know he had no brain activity.

Please show me a patient who came back from such state without permanent fatality?

You want them to have performed an apnea test which is even preliminary at best on a septic patient...
And you think that made sense.?

Its enough, dont reduce yourself further

Oga, the law says that to certify someone brain dead, 3 criteria must be met. Whether he was septic is irrelevant. So, as far as he didn't meet the 3 criteria, he's not brain dead. Simple.

And I've said it here before that he is not the first person to beat the prognostic odds and he won't be the last.
Antonio Cassano had an ischemic stroke secondary to a paradoxical emboli. He recovered fully and continued his football career.

Out of 7 points you could only muster a weak attempt at one?

CatfishBilly:

Oga, the law says that to certify someone brain dead, 3 criteria must be met. Whether he was septic is irrelevant. So, as far as he didn't meet the 3 criteria, he's not brain dead. Simple.

And I've said it here before that he is not the first person to beat the prognostic odds and he won't be the last.
Antonio Cassano had an ischemic stroke secondary to a paradoxical emboli. He recovered fully and continued his football career.

Out of 7 points you could only muster a weak attempt at one?

Sorry
There is no Law, stop approximation and shortcutting.
You even forgot when u earlier said there are many things involved

And for you to say wether he is septic is irrelevant confirms your quackery.
That is already a contra indication for many things.


The exact reason why I say you are not even qualified to read an EEG.

The ischaemic stroke patient u used as example further confirms your quackery
because in such patients there is still brain activity on EEG

Do you have any other strawz to grasp?

felixomor:


Sorry
There is no Law, stop approximation and shortcutting.
You even forgot when u earlier said there are many things involved

And for you to say wether he is septic is irrelevant confirms your quackery.
That is already a contra indication for many things.


The exact reason why I say you are not even qualified to read an EEG.

The ischaemic stroke patient u used as example further confirms your quackery
because in such patients there is still brain activity on EEG

Do you have any other strawz to grasp?

Here is the criteria from American Academy of Neurology. A lot of things are considered, but the 3 main are

The clinical evaluation (neurologic assessment).
A. Coma.

Patients must lack all evidence of responsiveness. Eye opening or eye movement to noxious stimuli is absent. Noxious stimuli should not produce a motor response other than spinally mediated reflexes. The clinical differentiation of spinal responses from retained motor responses associated with

B. Absence of brainstem reflexes.

Absence of pupillary response to a bright light is documented in both eyes.
Absence of ocular movements using oculocephalic testing and oculovestibular reflex testing. Movement of the eyes should be absent during 1 minute of observation. Both sides are tested, with an interval of several minutes.
Absence of corneal reflex. Absent corneal reflex is demonstrated by touching the cornea with a piece of tissue paper, a cotton swab, or squirts of water. No eyelid movement should be seen.
Absence of facial muscle movement to anoxious stimulus.
Absence of the pharyngeal and tracheal reflexes. The pharyngeal or gag reflex is tested after stimulation of the posterior pharynx with a tongue blade or suction device. The tracheal reflex is most reliably tested by examining the cough response to tracheal suctioning. The catheter should be inserted into the trachea and advanced to the level of the carina followed by 1 or 2 suctioning passes.
C. Apnea Test

Absence of a Respiratory Drive.
Absence of a breathing drive is tested with a CO2 challenge. Documentation of an increase in PaCO2 above normal levels is typical practice. It requires preparation before the test

Sepsis isn't listed anywhere as a contraindication for apnoea test.

The ischemic stroke example was to demonstrate how people beat prognostic odds, I never compared both cases. I dont know how that flew over your head.

I'm a doctor, I'm qualified to read an EEG. Suck it up.

7 points but you could only muster one weak attempt at one. Pathetic


Okay, you win.

CatfishBilly:

Okay, you win.

I can see no other straws are flowing your way.

felixomor:


Sorry
There is no Law, stop approximation and shortcutting.
You even forgot when u earlier said there are many things involved

And for you to say wether he is septic is irrelevant confirms your quackery.
That is already a contra indication for many things.


The exact reason why I say you are not even qualified to read an EEG.

The ischaemic stroke patient u used as example further confirms your quackery
because in such patients there is still brain activity on EEG

Do you have any other strawz to grasp?

I dey tell you say you get time to argue with am. All his comments are all over the place and made up as he went along.

He does not even know what it means to "certify" anyone brain dead. Perhaps to him they need to write it out somewhere using the words "this patient is brain dead".

In trying to explain it he had to once again rely on what is written on a website. He no fit type anything by himself as a medical person.

He says brain death is irreversible ba?

Make he try read small.

http://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

You try sha. Me I dont have such patience when his bullshiit has been detected a long time ago.

The straws that flew tonight were a plane load . I just tire.

CatfishBilly:

Here is the criteria from American Academy of Neurology. A lot of things are considered, but the 3 main are

Sepsis isn't listed anywhere as a contraindication for apnoea test.

The ischemic stroke example was to demonstrate how people beat prognostic odds, I never compared both cases. I dont know how that flew over your head.

I'm a doctor, I'm qualified to read an EEG. Suck it up.

7 points but you could only muster one weak attempt at one. Pathetic


Okay, you win.

Just as they said....
You had to make up in between my replies

Even from the page you sited
Read:

The possible complications of this test include severe hypotension, pneumothorax, excessive hypercarbia, hypoxia, acidosis, and cardiac arrhythmia or asystole. The occurrence of any of these complications may constrain the examiner to abort the test, .......

And yet you wanted expert neurosurgeons to use such test on an already septic patient.....?

Bros, i think you are the one to do "sucking up"....

And once again, no matter the cover up
That isxhemic stroke example was a poor attempt.

Cassano didnt even have poor prognosis.
It was called a "mini stroke".
An isxhemic one at that.

Please try harder with the clean up

butterflylion:


I dey tell you say you get time to argue with am. All his comments are all over the place and made up as he went along.

He does not even know what it means to "certify" anyone brain dead. Perhaps to him they need to write it out somewhere using the words "this patient is brain dead".

In trying to explain it he had to once again rely on what is written on a website. He no fit type anything by himself as a medical person.

He says brain death is irreversible ba?

Make he try read small.

http://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

You try sha. Me I dont have such patience when his bullshiit has been detected a long time ago.

The straws that flew tonight were a plane load . I just tire.

Its just because of other pple who may read his false thoughts that I like to follow him up

butterflylion:


I dey tell you say you get time to argue with am. All his comments are all over the place and made up as he went along.

He does not even know what it means to "certify" anyone brain dead. Perhaps to him they need to write it out somewhere using the words "this patient is brain dead".

In trying to explain it he had to once again rely on what is written on a website. He no fit type anything by himself as a medical person.

He says brain death is irreversible ba?

Make he try read small.

http://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

You try sha. Me I dont have such patience when his bullshiit has been detected a long time ago.

The straws that flew tonight were a plane load . I just tire.

According to these 2 articles, brain death is described as irreversible
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2772257/
https://www.openanesthesia.org/brain-death-definition/

I trust research articles and legal definition of terms much more than that blog cum website you put up there.



Is it paining you that I'm posting articles instead of writing? Are you allergic to reading? Yea, it's a thing with some nigerians.


Brain death is certified by a doctor so that if it turns out that the patient isn't actually brain dead, he can be sued for malpractice.
I've shown you how it's done across different US states and you still don't want to accept.
Can only take a horse to a stream, you can't force it to drink water.

felixomor:


Its just because of other pple who may read his false thoughts that I like to follow him up

You mean his copy and paste without understanding what he is copying and pasting ba?

He would have done better if he had at least on one attempt typed his medical responses with his own hands as a so called MD but did he?

Naturopathy is not a bad place to be but pride will not let him admit to that especially since he dey claim passing through the neurological unit on house job as a 2nd year medical graduate without knowing he should have said senior house officer.

I give up!

butterflylion:


You mean his copy and paste without understanding what he is copying and pasting ba?

He would have done better if he had at least on one attempt typed his medical responses with his own hands as a so called MD but did he?

Naturopathy is not a bad place to be but pride will not let him admit to that especially since he dey claim passing through the neurological unit on house job as a 2nd year medical graduate without knowing he should have said senior house officer.

I give up!

Hehehe �