Deep Sight:

Lawd. Where have i been and how did i miss this thread?

Viaro decietfully defending his embarrasing worship of a fellow proven mortal human being as God yet again? ? ?

When will this fellow end this pagan trinitarian joke? ? ?

I dnt think xtians worship any mortal.We belive just is God by nature&xteristics.
Xtians worship d creator of Heaven&earth whom was spoken about in Gen1

But your bible states that Jesus was "begotten" by that Creator, no?

If he is begotten, then he is not the Eternal Uncreated Almighty God, simple.

Because God is absolutely uncreated and unbegotten.

God is.

Deny that.

Deep Sight:

But your bible states that Jesus was "begotten" by that Creator, no?

If he is begotten, then he is not the Eternal Uncreated Almighty God, simple.

Because God is absolutely uncreated and unbegotten.

God is.

Deny that.

Yes the bible says hes the begotten son,reason being that jesus was born of a human even not through intercourse btw male and female thats why is begotten. For him to have left heaven to come to the earth couldnt have been possible without him passing through the normal routine evry born creatures goes through. Except if God were to be a magician and throw Jesus from Heaven. Thats y hes Begotten.

However the nature brought to earth by Christ is that of a deity See philipians 2 where the bible refered to him as having Gods nature. Also in colossians 1 15-23, the bible referred to him as the person God used in creating heaven and earth.

Jesus was able to do virtually all things that only God could av possibly do i.e raising the dead and doing all unimaginable miracles.

He had the power to forgive sins. By the nature of Christ and powers he has hes a God. Imagine Jesus saying hes the way the truth and the life. How could it be possible for a mortal to call himself life. John3 16 that whosoever belives in him will have eternal life. How can a mortal give eternal life? U can give only what u hav. Jesus is eternal by nature thats why he could give eternity himself.

All the examples i gave u are all from the bible. For u to understand the bible u need wisdom and knowledge. No wonder the bible says in colossians 2 that all treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in christ jesus. Jesus now said in matt7 vs 7 ask and yea shall receive.

I dnt think a mortal can say or do what christ did. We read in Matt 28 vs 18 that total powers in heaven and earth has been given to jesus, i.e hes a God in Heaven and earth, since he had powers to do and undo.

Its left to u to see for urself

@toba
phil.2.6
He always had the nature of God but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.[good news]
are you sure u finished the verse??
In matt.12.28 Jesus was able to do miracles BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.see,he didn't have his own thus making him not to be God
Jesus can do anything as the father because john3.35-the father loves the son and puts everything in his power.
All knowledge was in Jesus and he didn't know the time of his coming?? think twice

It is very funny to see that jesus always referred to himself as the son of God and said the father was greater than him.jn.14.28 and yet others want him to be God and equal with his father.very funny.

@viaro
i admire the way you twisted the whole son issue and want to see how you can do that to the father. i.e jesus referred to God as his father and God and God reffered to him as his beloved son and never as his God.
just asking-i am an anglican, are u a catholic??

karo93:



It is very funny to see that jesus always referred to himself as the son of God and said the father was greater than him.jn.14.28 and yet others want him to be God and equal with his father.very funny.

That's becaus ethey have repeatedly shown that they have ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for the words of Jesus himself.

Church dogma is more important than Jesus.

I bet you if Jesus appeared in the sky today and screamed: "Hallo folks - jus to set the record straight, i am not God!" -

The Trinitarian will tell you that he is speaking symbolically and perhaps just to teach us humility: and proceed to maintain that Jesus is God - thereby calling Jesus (God) a liar.

The trinitarian has no qualms doing this over and over again.

Deep S
Seems you're the one full of qualms about Jesus being referred to as God, severally all through scriptures. Your sort has inconveniently glanced through all that has being written in the Word and on this thread showing that Jesus is God the Son. No one has said that Jesus is God the Father but that Jesus is God the Son. And the three God are one God, a mystery strewn all through the Bible.
Jesus Being 'the only begotten of God' does not connote a beginning of existence in scripture. Such connotations are from your lonely mind. The apostles saw it as something relating to Christ's death and resurrection, not his existence. Acts 13v33. Did Jesus just start existing on resurrection morning? This day have I begotten thee. That he is ONLY alone shows its not of existence. The angels are sons of God with beginning. Why is Christ only begotten if it connotes start of existence?
Jesus is the EVERLASTING FATHER for Jesus Christ's sake. All this talk of his beginning of existence is at best, nonsense

@image123
Seeing that you have shown them to be distinct bodies yet still one God, let me help you out

1.They do not have equal powers
Jesus could not do miracles on his own but by the power of the holy spirit matt.12.28

2.They do not have equal knowledge
Jesus did not know the time of his coming for only the father knew.

These all destroy the claim that they are the same because you cant be more powerful or knowledgeable than yourself for you can only be more than someone else.

What do you have to excuse this?mystery?if not bring it on and lets examine it together.

ANSWERS THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE JESUS TO BE GOD NORMALLY GIVE.

1.If Jesus is God why would he refer and relate to God as an entirely different person?i.e 'i am the way to the father',my God my God why hast thou forsaken me?
ANSWER:They are distinct but still one.

2.If you admit that they are distinct but still one then who created who?
QUESTIONED ANSWERS:
1.If one created the other then they are not the same but in the same likeness
2.if they both came into existence at the same time then they are two gods.

3.if you say 'wtf' are you saying they are one person then why do they have unequal power and knowledge?
ANSWER:what of so so so and so verse.

@image123
I thought I was done with this thread, but I had to see this post of yours.

Image123:

MyJoe
I said there's a witness party here already. I didn't say anything was right or wrong about it. I have no problems. Good to see a non.witness enter the fray.
You've as I initially remarked, ignored Bible quotes that prove the Trinity and decided to dwell on verses nobody is hardly arguing against.

I wish you had quoted a single scripture proving Trinity rather than seeking to disparage others.

Image123:
I've mentioned hierarchy on this thread, you've decided not to see that. Nobody has said Jesus is God the Father. What we've said is that Jesus is God the Son, and the Spirit is God the Spirit.

Show me "God the Son" or "God the Spirit" in the Bible.

Image123:
The Bible calls them God. The watchtower translation isn't the only translation on earth. [/b]Quit acting like it is.

Show me a single place where I quoted "the watchtower translation". Even when you attempt to write sensibly you can't stop taking pot shots at your enemies, the watchtower people. Why?

Image123:
God says in Isaiah that 'I will not give my glory unto another'. According to you now, Jesus is another. It's either God did not regard His Word here or you're wrong. Paul talks about the mystery of godliness but [b]you'ld rather your nut-chewing relative be right than have the inspired word of God. May God open every eye.

I will stick with my "nut-chewing relative" on this. A wayo was perpetrated in 325AD. This has made things unclear to you. To cope, you pass it off as mystery.

.Hello guy, wow this issues is still going on,anyway it worths sorting out. I got some revelations from a senior pastor in my church on this issue. Is jesus christ God? His answer is simply No! But he explained to me his divine nature 'as one with God' who can be,glorified,honoured and worshipped too.  I asked again 'why is there some controversies like refering  jesus as God and why is there some quotes in the bible supporting that? His answer is; well there are many reason to that 1. - that alot of alteration has been done to the bible, that those who did some of translations are group of sects (that came up with the idea of trinity) may have altered some meaning  from original scripts to suit their belief, he said there are alot of sects, some which their activities are secrets in the early age like the knights, Templers, Monks, grails, theologians,  He sacred me by saying that it was a 'taboo' those dark ages to touch de bible not to talk of reading it if you not an elite in the church or do not belong to any of those sects. All this was during reign of some certain bishops of rome (pope).  My question again was 'why is some churches and many pastors still believe and preach the trinity, he answered me that, '' trinity issue if it goes into debate can break the church,can create some doubts among christians on their faith in the church, that it may take ages to correct that but since it's not affecting the salvation of man,every pastor is expected to handle this kind of controversy so as not create doubt in one's faith. He told me to think of what will be of the  some christian's faith if 'dan vinc code' is true? Or if the resurrection of christ is said not be true,  That i have seen what gay-ism is doing in the society and in church, whether to accept them or not,yet a bishop of leading church is a gay and is causing huge controversy, some churches believe in virgin mary and saints to intercede for mankind before God. 'That mary had some children after jesus',  These are still  controversies  and see how it has divided the church when all are suppose to be united christians in one belief,  That if Trinity is to preach against openly by pastors. hmmm,  that may be too much for christian faith. So my question is for how long will the truth be hidden?

Most enjoyable and moving when sung to Shipston

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/f/i/firmlyib.htm#

Firmly I believe and truly
God is Three, and God is One;
And I next acknowledge duly
Manhood taken by the Son.

And I trust and hope most fully
In that Manhood crucified;
And each thought and deed unruly
Do to death, as He has died.

Simply to His grace and wholly
Light and life and strength belong,
And I love supremely, solely,
Him the holy, Him the strong.

And I hold in veneration,
For the love of Him alone,
Holy Church as His creation,
And her teachings are His own.

And I take with joy whatever
Now besets me, pain or fear,
And with a strong will I sever
All the ties which bind me here.

Adoration aye be given,
With and through the angelic host,
To the God of earth and Heaven,
Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

karo93
You've consistently failed to grasp simple english, how do you intend to understand what scriptures refer to as the mystery of godliness. Your only hope remains revelation, and not looking in the frame. Your over-reliance on words of men and elders shows it.
Again lets hope you get it. Jesus isn't God the Father but God the Son. And like someone said, they are of the same essence God/Godhead. You've refused to deal with the scriptures set on this thread. Your insistence that Jesus is lesser because He works through the Spirit is neutralised by your own talk that God's work is done by some active force or messenger. Get some perspective and 'help' yourself.
Also I said it earlier, your spirit can show better judgement/knowledge than your body. Actually, scriptures say they can be towing opposite directions. It does not make you two different people.

Enigma
Great hymn.

Poster, Please if you believe Jesus is not God. . .
Keep it to yourself, don't go about spreading propaganda and balony. . .
My faith and religion believes Jesus is God and the same with the Holy Trinity
and through God can one see and experience eternal life. . .
So, please keep your beliefs to yourself.

MyJoe
Pls quit lying, at least for C.T Russell's sake. Or are you not aware that all liars will have their parts in the lake of fire? Even if you believe it to be annihilation, it's not worth it. I'm not exactly on this thread for word.trading with you. You've inconveniently skipped quoted passages only to dwell on what you think you can handle. I'm here for the body of Christ, not for talks about enemies and history class.

la vivi
As long as one continues to get 'scary' revelations from senior pastors, one can never really tell how long the truth will be hidden.
If you want truth revealed, dump archaic revelations and potential sources and look in faith into the perfect law of liberty.
It's just my suggestion, please don't take offense.

karo93:

@viaro
i admire the way you twisted the whole son issue and want to see how you can do that to the father. i.e jesus referred to God as his father and God and God reffered to him as his beloved son and never as his God.

Please, kindly quote me precisely for what I said and not for what I did not say. I don't remember saying that the Father called the Son 'His God'. Rather, I pointed out that it was the Father's speech that was reported in Hebrews 1:8 referring to the Deity of His Son - "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". I did not twist anything in that verse but quoted it directly from the KJV.

Also in post #149, I asked you to kindly let us know what versions or translations you're quoting in twisting Acts 20:28 and Phil. 2:6 - no, I have not forgotten and will not let it pass. Please kindly oblige us so we can read those verses and more for ourselves.

just asking-i am an anglican, are u a catholic??

No, viaro is not Catholic (no offense to Catholics); but I'm a Baptist.

However, it is remarkable that Anglicans are known to confess that Jesus is God, as in this example:

[list]All Saints Anglican Church

Q: What does it mean to be a Christian?

Christians are followers of Jesus Christ. They seek to follow his teachings and model their lives on His example. More importantly, Christians believe that Jesus is God, having become a human being, come to rescue and restore us and all of His broken creation.  . . . [/list]

Now I understand that some Anglicans find it difficult to believe the Deity of Jesus Christ, and they deny that confession altogether. Let's just say that your denial is not definitive of the Anglican position on this subject; nor is it definitive for Baptists or Catholics. For me personally, I confess most affirmatively that Jesus Christ is God.

karo93:

ANSWERS THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE JESUS TO BE GOD NORMALLY GIVE.

@karo93

The topic itself denies the Deity of Christ in stating: "That Jesus Is Not God". That was what caught my interest, for indeed you had tried to argue in favour of that denial. "First of all," you said in the OP, "Jesus never stated that he was God" - and then you went on arguing against the Deity of Jesus in the various posts you made.

However, it seems most remarkable that even you are now not so sure any more whether or not to argue in favour of your denial; or whether we should not notice that the discussion has subtly changed. What was your basic argument again? This: "That Jesus is not God" (topic). Perhaps, now after so long it seems you're holding up close to the affirmation that Jesus is indeed God.

Two basic points that sum up that conlusion for me are from these quotes:
(a)

karo93: Jesus had the full nature of God because he was possesed by the Holy spirit who is the acting hand or force of God not because he was God himself.mt 12:28
click here

(b)

karo93:
Jesus is to be worshipped because according to john.3.35 the father loves the son and puts everything in his power.
click here

So, your arguments as regards Christ are that:

        (a)  Jesus had the full nature of God;
        (b)  Jesus is to be worshipped.

What is the meaning of saying that Jesus had "the full nature of God" other than unwittingly affirming His Deity? It is absolutely crass to assert that He had 'the full nature of God' and then keep on arguing against His Deity - that just turns out to be denying the very thing that you affirm. It reminds me of Arius of Alexandria who denied the eternal Deity of Christ while at the same time confessing that Christ was "perfect God". How could One who had the full nature of God be anything less than 'Deity', karo93? If you assume so, then you really do not have the slightest clue what you're stating.


Second, when you acknowledge and affirm that Jesus is to be worshipped, are you not again affirming the Deity of Christ? You should know that worshipping a "created being" tends to idolatry in the Biblical sense (Exodus 34:14 and Psa. 81:9). If Jesus is only a "created Being", why do you worship Him (Matt. 4:10)? Since you affirm that Jesus is to be worshipped, what kind of 'worship' do you as a Christian render to a "created being" that should be the same equal worship rendered to the Father (John 5:23 and Rev. 5:13)?

The only reason why anyone would render worship to Jesus Christ on equal terms as they do to the Father is because Jesus Himself is Deity - Jesus is God. Anything else is idolatry, for you cannot defend any Biblical teaching ascribing worship to a "created being" no matter how glorious or exalted that 'being' may be.

The angels are powerful beings created by God and described as ~

           *  great in power and might (2 Peter 2:11)
           *  excelling in strength (Psa. 103:20)
           *  'Mighty' (2 Thes. 1:7)

. . . and yet, none of the elect angels in all their glory would ever receive worship from man. For when the apostle John was moved to worship one of such mighty angels, he was twice expressly forbidden; and twice expressly told to "worship God" (Rev. 19:10 and 22:8-9). Not only so, but the Bible also expressly declares that ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD worship Jesus Christ (Heb. 1:6).

Now in all these, how is it possible for you to affirm that Jesus is to be worshipped if you yet deny His Deity? Any excuse you make up for this would only tend to idolatry. It is either Jesus is God and as such is deserving of worship; or your claim is nothing short of classic idolatry. The choice is yours.

Enigma:

Most enjoyable and moving when sung to Shipston

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/f/i/firmlyib.htm#

Firmly I believe and truly
God is Three, and God is One;
And I next acknowledge duly
Manhood taken by the Son.
. . . . .

Beautiful! Most beautiful indeed. Please allow me to share something as an analogy of the highlighted second line of that hymn.

An Analogy of The Trinity

God cannot be constrained by rigid reductionism or rationalism - we cannot bring Him down to any determined position of our finite understanding, and this is especially true in the case of the Trinity.

The Trinity is a mystery of the Christian faith which cannot be adequately captured in any metaphysical diction (Job 11:7 - "canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?". Yet, that does not therefore weaken its Biblical foundation in any way.

When God revealed His Name as "I AM THAT I AM" (Exodus 3:14), it was not just a mere pointer to His existence, but rather to His essence. He is whatever He reveals of Himself, independent of human understanding or constraints, whether we grasp the concept of the Trinity or not. This is why I reckon that even the most intellectual expositions about God, Deity and the Trinity are still inadequate and can only bring us this close and no further.

Certainly, many people struggle to grasp the Biblical teaching of the Trinity. When they hear the Trinitarian confession as in that hymn above, that ~

         "God is Three, and God is One"

. . .these folks struggle with such a possibility and have consequently raised questions like: 'How can God be both One and Trinity?'. To such folks, it seems somewhat out of joint to posit a scenario of a contrapositive statement where two things stand in contrast, and then maintain that their coexistence is in equilibrium. Not only would that seem to be 'uncommon', but also almost contrary to all reason.

^^^^^

However, the Trinity is neither impossible nor contrary to all reason. Even natural phenomena, in their limitations and constraints, also demonstrate the coexistence of contrapositive reality.

For example, some may wonder: how could there be both 'boiling' and 'freezing' of the same substance coexisting and occuring at the same time in the same crucible? Yet, this is both possible and has been demonstrated, as in the vid below which shows both 'boiling' and 'freezing' of a substance in equilibrium in the same crucible:

[list][flash=300,250]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLRqpJN9zeA&hl=en_GB&fs=1&[/flash]

(tert-butyl boils and freezes at the same time)[/list]


Now, if nature shows us the possibility of one substance having three phases coexisting in equilibrium, could we not find any analogy as well that exemplifies the concept of the Trinity? Certainly, there is one such analogy: the 'Triple Point' in thermodynamics.

Let's consider a few definitions of 'triple point' ~

[list](a)   'In thermodynamics, the triple point of a substance is the temperature and pressure at which three phases (for example, gas, liquid, and solid) of that substance coexist in thermodynamic equilibrium' (Wikipedia)

(b)   'In physics, the temperature at which all three phases of matter (solid, liquid, and gas) for a given substance can coexist' [Dictionary.Reference].[/list]

The key features in those definitions are that -
          ::::  there's one substance
          ::::  there are three phases
          ::::  these coexist simultaneously
          ::::  they are in equilibrium

So it is in the Trinity of the Godhead -
          ::::  One divine Essence: Deity
          ::::  three Divine Persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit
          ::::  their coexistence through eternity
          ::::  their Unity unaffected at any time

In giving analogies, however, one should be careful to not equate them to the subject being spoken about; nor should such an analogy be taken to be the 'perfect explanation' for the Trinity.

^^^^

What then is the analogy of the Triple Point indicating? Several things, among others:

(a)  the analogy is NOT the Trinity, but is only used to illustrate our own inability to grasp the mystery of this most important subject: the Trinity.

(b)  that, what might be thought 'impossible' to our finite minds is already demonstrated in nature - (such as that, three phases [solid, liquid, and gas] of a single substance can indeed coexist in equilibrium). It is not a question of three different substances, nor is it a question of new substances emerging from the original substance to become yet another substance - No. Just one substance in three phases in coexistence in equilibrium.

(c)   like I said, the analogy is NOT the Trinity - it was only used by viaro to illustrate how very little we can fathom the mystery of the Godhead.

(d)  in all of this, as far as this thread is concerned, there was just one question in the thread topic that drew my interest here: "Proving That Jesus Is Not God". My answer is that anyone who gives divine worship to a "created being" is promoting idolatry. And the only reason why Jesus is to be worshipped indeed is because He is God - He is Deity, and not a "created being".

Haha, viaro is breaking posts. And someone is looking for an evidence that there's God. Nice try sha.
Who is that Arius? The guy no go school or what?
I woke up this morning and I'm reading something pleasant(apart from the Bible). Thank you, that analogy of the trinity write was pleasant. Especially the Exodus 3v14 part. If I wasn't male, I could've sworn that the baby leaped in my womb.

@Viaro

Excellent posts -- esp no 177-179.

^^^ Except that such Physics can also be used to justify the Holy Trinity Of Horus, Isis and Osiris - the Egptian Triad which pre-dated Christian Trinitarian Ideas by centuries.

Pagan triads which are the predecessors of your Trinity.

So Viaro: based on the physics you set out above, the Egyptian Triad is also sound and true: no?

Let it be clear - any clown can produce zillions of phyical phenomena that serve as a seeming basis for spiritual propositions -

I can equally use the laws of gravity, permanence of energy and cause and effect to justify my belief in Karma and reincarnation - though you would not accept that!

There are many many chemical formations that involve many amounts of different compounds - and it could equally be asserted that God is 4, 5, 6, 7 8, 9 or a million beings in one based on any agglomeration of equal chemical substances.

C.rap!

@image123
do you deliberately refuse to understand what i post or is it just you?
doesnt my post show you that they are three distinct bodies and that Jesus is not God the father??
oh!i now get it is not your fault and this is what is-jn.12.40

@viaro
that verse was from good news
I did not repeat 'jesus never said' because we all know it and you never said he did so i would waste my time repeating myself.
what do you have to say about the father being greater than him a said in jn.14.28 and their inequality of knowledge and power seeing that i have told you why he is to be worshiped and why he had the full nature of God.

Deep Sight:

^^^ Except that such Physics can also be used to justify the Holy Trinity Of Horus, Isis and Osiris - the Egptian Triad which pre-dated Christian Trinitarian Ideas by centuries.

Pagan triads which are the predecessors of your Trinity.

So Viaro: based on the physics you set out above, the Egyptian Triad is also sound and true: no?

(1)  It may help you to carefully weigh what I said rather than see 'viaro' and just be driven to react.

(2)  I only used the Triple Point as an analogy, and yet noted and emphasized that the Triple Point is NOT the Trinity.

(3)  Since the Triple Point is NOT the Trinity, your attacking the analogy takes absolutely nothing from the Trinity.

(4)   In the case of the Triple Point, we were looking at what occurerence in nature; whereas, in the Trinity is not to be reduced to "nature". For me, the Trinity is transcendent and preternatural - beyond nature. As such, I also emphatically said two things:

        (a)  The Trinity is a mystery of the Christian faith which cannot be adequately
               captured in any metaphysical diction;

        (b)   In giving analogies, however, one should be careful to not equate them to
               the subject being spoken about; nor should such an analogy be taken to be
               the 'perfect explanation' for the Trinity.

In demonstrating the concept of the Trinity, my analogy is just that - an "analogy". I did not assert or argue that the Triple Point was equal to the Trinity. If you want to argue the Physics of the Triple Point, please open a thread and let's see what science you know at all (if any); or, if you are thirsty for the [i]Meta[/i]physics of 'Essential Being', you may also give me a shout and let's clean you up very quickly.

Let it be clear - any clown can produce zillions of phyical phenomena that serve as a seeming basis for spiritual propositions -

You've been doing that forever on Nairaland - did you just wake up to realise the clown you always have been?

I can equally use the laws of gravity, permanence of energy and cause and effect to justify my belief in Karma and reincarnation - though you would not accept that!

I have not tried to "justify" anything here, and I made sure to state that the Triple Point is NOT the Trinity. Yes, I believe in the Trinity; but that does not mean I set out to "justify" anything in that regard. However, your Karma and/reincarnation has nothing to do with my subject or discourse; and you're quite free to seek to "justify" your belief in them - so long as you find a deistic scripture for that and not peg it on any page of the Bible.

There are many many chemical formations that involve many amounts of different compounds - and it could equally be asserted that God is 4, 5, 6, 7 8, 9 or a million beings in one based on any agglomeration of equal chemical substances.

I did not assert that God is 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (yes, the fraud Benny Hinn prefers a "9" in his theology of the Godhead) or a million beings. My discourse was not about equating "chemical formations" to the Uncreated Trinity - I have repeatedly emphasized that point: the Triple Point is NOT the Trinity, but viaro only used the former to illustrate one thing: "how very little we can fathom the mystery of the Godhead". So if you miss that, I can well bear with you; but if you want to present a case for your belief in a million beings for your god, please do so - it would take nothing away from what I have said, for viaro is not a worshipper of your deistic OOI.

C.rap!

Yes, that's what you are.

Viaro my brother! Quick question - why do you love referring to yourself in the third person?

Are you a Trinity?

karo93:

@viaro
that verse was from good news

Thanks. Now let me compare them:

[table][tr][td]karo93 in post#146
[/td][td]. [/td][td]GoodNews Bible[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Acts 20.28
So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the holy spirit has placed in your care.be shephereds of the church of God which he made with the sacrificial death of his son.[/td][td]. [/td][td]
Acts 20:28
So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God,  which he made his own through the blood of his Son.
[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]phil.2.6
He always had the nature of God but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.[/td][td]. [/td][td]
Phil. 2:6
He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain  equal with God.
[/td][/tr][/table]


ACTS 20:28

(1)  You can see that you quote and what appears from GoodNews are not the same. Now, I'm not accusing you of lying here; but I wonder if it might be possible that you were using a different edition of the GoodNews Bible than what we find as quoted above?

(2)  In the GoodNews Bible, Acts 20:28 reads "which he made his own through the blood of his Son". However, I want to ask you if you ever checked up John 1:1 in that same GoodNews Bible, where it reads: "In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God"? Does the GoodNews not say that Jesus is God in John 1:1? Don't forget also that the same version says in Rev. 19:13 that Jesus has a Name: 'The robe he wore was covered with blood. His name is "The Word of God."'

(3)   So, whether you quote GN Bible out of context, of otherwise twisted it, it still affirms in Acts 20:28 that it was with the Blood of His Son, and that the Son who is 'the Word'  is Himself GOD in John 1:1. What is your problem in that?

_________

PHILIPPIANS 2:6

(1)   So is the case of Phil. 2:6 between what you quoted and what we read in GN Bible: they are not the same.

(2)   While you argued that it was a case of "to become equal with God", the GN says it was rather a case of "to remain equal with God".

(3)   There's a world of difference between "becoming" and "remaining" ~

            (a)   to "become" something means you were not that thing previously

            (b)   to "remain" something means that you ALREADY were that same thing earlier

(4)   Jesus was not trying to "become" God - rather, He "always had the nature of God," but He did not "think that by force he should try to remain equal with God". That He 'always had the nature of God' is the same thing that John 1:1 says in the GN Bible - "the Word was God".

In all this, karo93. . . it just means that your topic is grasping at straws. Rather than "Proving That Jesus Is Not God", the verses from the GN Bible you cited are showing that Jesus is indeed God.

I did not repeat 'jesus never said' because we all know it and you never said he did so i would waste my time repeating myself.

I don't think I was asserting that you repeated yourself. It is enough for me that whether you said it once or many times, the case before us is that Jesus is God indeed.

what do you have to say about the father being greater than him a said in jn.14.28 and their inequality of knowledge and power seeing that i have told you why he is to be worshiped and why he had the full nature of God.

Simple: the context bears witness of itself in that verse - the superlative "greater" does not mean that Jesus was a 'lesser God'; it was rather a case of Divine Economy, which is what Phil. 2:6 points to once again. Jesus who always had the nature of God (Phil. 2:6, GNB) and was Himself God (John 1:1, GBN) did not try to force His equality with God upon us.

This is why you will read in other passages that demonstrate Christ's Humility as well, and such Humility does not affect His very essence as Deity.  It is because Jesus is God (John 1:1, GNB) that is why He is to be worshipped - for any other 'worship' you render to a "created being" is idolatry.

Deep Sight:

Viaro my brother!

Howdy brotherly!

Quick question - why do you love referring to yourself in the third person?

Are you a Trinity?

Hehehe. . it is called illeism. I know - bad habit of me, but it's something about my Italian background that is hard to drop. I was worse than that, but I guess there's some improvement.

However, my illeism does not make me a divine trinity.

Image123:

Haha, viaro is breaking posts. And someone is looking for an evidence that there's God. Nice try sha.
Who is that Arius? The guy no go school or what?
I woke up this morning and I'm reading something pleasant(apart from the Bible). Thank you, that analogy of the trinity write was pleasant. Especially the Exodus 3v14 part. If I wasn't male, I could've sworn that the baby leaped in my womb.

Enigma:

@Viaro

Excellent posts -- esp no 177-179.

@Enigma and Image123, many thanks.

Quote from Viaro -

(3)   There's a world of difference between "becoming" and "remaining" ~

            (a)   to "become" something means you were not that thing previously

And equally being "begotten" means. . .? ? ?

is the same thing that John 1:1 says in the GN Bible - "the Word was God".

Why do you keep citing this? You know what the greek inferred.

but it's something about my Italian background that is hard to drop.

Do you speak Italian?

Deep Sight:

Quote from Viaro -

(3) There's a world of difference between "becoming" and "remaining" ~

(a) to "become" something means you were not that thing previously

And equally being "begotten" means. . .? ? ?

The word "begotten" does not mean that He was "created". In the NT, in reference to Christ, it is often used in the various forms (eg., "only begotten" or "firstbegotten" to indicate a number of things -

(a) His Divine Nature

(b) His Victory in Resurrection

The word itself is μονογενής (monogenēs) in Greek; and it is different from another word for procreation, γεννάω (gennaō).

That Christ is the "only begotten" of the Father is saying that Christ is the unique and exact same essence or nature (Deity) as is the Father. No other 'being' (angel or human being) is called the μονογενής (monogenēs) of the Father in Scripture.

Why do you keep citing this? You know what the greek inferred.

I cite it because that is what Scripture says and implies.

Do you speak Italian?

Do you?

@viaro
i want us to reach a verdict together so pls answer this question and those to follow.
1.After studying the way Jesus related and referred to God the father as a different entity['i am the way to the father',my God my God why hast thou forsaken me?] and the book of revelation do you believe that Jesus and God are separate entities but still one God?