patriot4: andrew you seem like a good fellow, I am sorry for some things I said, and I am sorry for showing your fb page.

Same here.. but i won't apologize to syndergp nor mzauza, ... didn't mean everything i said though

agaugust:

you speak english ? or only dutch/afrikaans ? i gave you a whole internet wikipedia definition details that says corvettes and frigates are names used interchangeably depending of the role and weapons on the ship, not only a matter of hull size, and that certain class of corvettes are also called light frigates.

NNS thunder is no frigate despite its size 115m

TYPE 056 is light frigate based on its anti-ship/submarine/aircraft ability,and on board helicopter despite its size 95m

the type 056 weapons and ECM are about equal to the valour frigate, gun size, missiles, and all. only real war can prove a winner between them.

a valour frigate is in great danger facing a type 056 light frigate, the type 056 missiles can sink an aircraft carrier, but NN thunder is no threat.

update your knwoledge from this quote below and dont confuse other people here :

"Corvettes are fast (around 25 knots or better), well-armed ships that displace between 700 and 2000 tons. A corvette is generally not intended for extended ocean-going operations, and is best suited for regional operations. Corvettes are generally the smallest platforms capable of accommodating the sensors, weapons, and combat systems needed to operate in a medium threat environment.
Corvettes are sometimes referred to as light frigates (FFLs). It can be assumed that the hull design for a corvette and that of an offshore patrol vessel are very similar. The differences will be in propulsion and outfitting. Corvettes will have higher speed and therefore less endurance and range than OPV, much greater armament, and less space for provisions and habitability."

weblink source :

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-navy/33514-what-difference-between-frigate-destroyer.html#ixzz2PBcDaiDd

Show us the weapons systems in detail, and then compare the firepower of both the Type056 and Valour Class ships.

If you can't proof this then shut up.

While the first vessel is to be constructed in China, at least half of the sister ship will then be built within Nigeria to boost shipbuilding skills and benefit the local economy. 10 further OPVs/ frigates are planned for procurement within the coming decade.


Nigeria would also be getting 10 opv's/frigates, within the decade. In all, we should be looking at 17-20 warships.

http://www.defenceiq.com/naval-and-maritime-defence/articles/nigeria-ups-the-stakes-with-two-new-opv-contracts/

[url][/url]

Henry120: Nigerian navy public acquisition of ships deals made in 2012


* 4 Pipavav OPVs(patterned on the Russian Tigr light frigates)

* 2 Chinese stealth OPVs/ light frigates

* three OPVs/OPCs coming through NIMASA( coast guard)

* Request put in for a used USCG 3,250 ton Hamilton-class frigate.

The nigerian navy and coast guard would be getting 10 ships in total. With these acquisitions the navy would be the undisputed champion of african seas.

We already have africa's largest haul of small and medium crafts.




http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-27286/

The contract is worth 11.92 billion rupees (US$213 million) and includes options for another two vessels, which can be exercised within 24 months. In this case the contract value may go up to 25.04 billion rupees (US$448 million).

Both vessels will be delivered in 32 months including option vessels, if exercised, Pipavav announced on August 6. Nigeria may be the source of the order as Strategic Defence Intelligence in February this year reported that Nigeria was undertaking an offshore patrol vessels contract for two vessels, to be finalised in the third quarter of this year. It is assumed that the two OPVs are in addition to the two 1 800 ton OPVs ordered by the Nigerian Navy from China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Limited on April 18 this year.

I am still keeping it at SAN. With project biro our fleet will returen to to its old abilety.


And it not all about numbers. The valour class are with out qustion the best warship in africa


If our defense rieviw gets sighend in SA will buy 2 more valour clalls frigats and 1 to 2 LHDs.


Thanks to CAR the chance is high that it will be aproved

Just to point out that the addstional 10 OPVs is only in the plaing stage, same as SAN LHD is in a planing stage.

All so it indergates they will be bought has OPVs not corvets or frigats. Though this may be a ploy has many countries say the buying OPVs whe actually it a corvet. Either way most of the orders seem to focus on lirol or brown water operastions. This is somthing SAN dose not have a need for. The Biro ships are rather large because SA has lots of deep water and rough seas to cover. And a masive coast line. This forcess SAN to have a strong navy. All so has SADCs only naval force it now has a area of resbielty from Angola to Tanzania with agrement between our goverment.

A not oven mentioned is the warrio clss Strike craft of SAN. Current plans are to put all 4 (there was just 2 and a half) back at 100% servise level. The first 3 have/are being upgraded.

Though small they pack a punch. Armend with a 76mm two 20mm and two 12,7mm along with space for 6 anti ship missiels(non are loaded since there is no need to intergrate the exocet with them and the skerpion are out of producstion.) The aft 76mm has been removed for space for SF/Marines and there small boats. Though a 35mm could be add since it does not penortriaght the deck. The big problem with them is range but they make up with it for out right speed and fire power.

All though they did not get in to fights the stike craft conducted a lot of covert missions in Angola. Useing there small size to affoad been seen. They where used to depoy and recover SF units. A role they still great at.


All from boat israel though up in the 1960s.

andrewza:


though there is nothing wrong with it, if i was desghing it i would make a few changes, based on SA experiance with these types of small wheeled APCs.

1 larger windows or go like SA new APC,s and IFV and have cammras all round with internal mointors. this is for all round visbielty.

roof hatches in the passger compartment and fireports. allows you to have a infantry sectsion fire while moving.

This APC has camera's( thermal and night vision capabilities) around it and a monitor inside.

Post a photo of the APC, you are talking about.

andrewza: [url][/url]

I am still keeping it at SAN. With project biro our fleet will returen to to its old abilety.


And it not all about numbers. The valour class are with out qustion the best warship in africa


If our defense rieviw gets sighend in SA will buy 2 more valour clalls frigats and 1 to 2 LHDs.


Thanks to CAR the chance is high that it will be aproved

So you know admit that, SANDF got dealt with in CAR.

I don't think, I'd keep it with SA. Nigeria would surely come out strong this year. As you can see from our procurements, we mean business.

The only problem is that nigeria and RSA do not conduct joint military operations, so their is no way to test our capabilities.

The rebels look more like mercenaries to me. They certainly know how to handle military strategy.
I do not think they lost 500 people to the South africans, and I do think the South african were 400, it is possible that the rebels who attacked SANDF were between 800 and 1200. They defeated the South africans mostly by strategy and infiltration of the area. They probably also used the armed children as human shields.
SANDF is new to this kind of war. I suggest more cooperation between SANDF and NA.
I no longer think the SANDF pulled the white flag, I think it was a mutual agreement between the SA soldiers and the rebels to stop the fight. Also I think the South africans might have been significantly desarmed by the rebels at the end of the agreement in order for them not to pose a threat to the new president of CAR.

Henry120:

So you know admit that, SANDF got dealt with in CAR.

I don't think, I'd keep it with SA. Nigeria would surely come out strong this year. As you can see from our procurements, we mean business.

The only problem is that nigeria and RSA do not conduct joint military operations, so their is no way to test our capabilities.

Though there is no gaurinty that people would not have died there loss would have been lower if they had certain things. Example a AIR assert. Even a unarmend Dron could have been of use. Twice the SANDF sent out a patrol to see what was happing and twice they came under attack and took wounded. Thing is there are a number of drone projects but has of now only the seek is being used for anti poaching ops. Thae artielry do have there own small drone to observe shellings and provid targeting but I don't know about it's statuse since I am not in the army. All I know is that it doese not need a runway and is operate by the army not air force.

With the replacment of the Eland for the rooikat we lost somthing we never knew we had. The abliety to deploy proper armour with a C130. 2 could fit in a C130(though only one if you want to fly to CAR unless you land half way for fuel) and they had 90mm guns. Though the mamba/casspir replament will have a 25mm auto canon.

With only a limted number of C130s we struggel to provide enough air lift for all it's forghin ops. We where ment to get A400M and denel actualy still makes componts for it but delays and politics ment a aircraft that we where suppossed to have in 2011 is not here. Though we did just recover the money from it meaning we can buy somthing else. The yanks are advertissing the C17 and 3 pluse a few more C130s and a cargo version of the suacepan MPa will give use all the lift we need.

We all so lost many thing in the 1990s that we should get back. We operate a Awac. Has in a 747 with a giant Radar. But it was removed with out a replasment. We bought A109s but they not really a milltary helicopter and struggel in the heat of Africa.

Basical what I am saying is that the SANDF has it's faults and there is a plan to address them in the new defense review(that gives us a bigger budget) and since nothing swings votes more than body bags we may get what we need. But don't assumm we lost we never won in CAR but we never lost either. Tough I suspect if we had a full para battlion there we would have won or the battel would still be going on at least. You can deffend a town with 265 men. It just not possibli.


So does SAN. Biro(OPV/corvets and IPVs) and sucepan(MPA/light transport) where both made priorty projects. Along with the refurbished strike craft we would have 14 war ships 3 subs and 4 to 6 IPVs that will have 35mm guns. More than a lot of OPVs


The cost doese not warrent it.

DictatorZAR:

Show us the weapons systems in detail, and then compare the firepower of both the Type056 and Valour Class ships.

If you can't proof this then shut up.

You too can spend your time to do the comparison and post for us all to see, or there's no Google in south africa ?

The exercise would also help us to judge your intelligence and fairness.

patriot4: The rebels look more like mercenaries to me. They certainly know how to handle military strategy.
I do not think they lost 500 people to the South africans, and I do think the South african were 400, it is possible that the rebels who attacked SANDF were between 800 and 1200. They defeated the South africans mostly by strategy and infiltration of the area. They probably also used the armed children as human shields.
SANDF is new to this kind of war. I suggest more cooperation between SANDF and NA.
I no longer think the SANDF pulled the white flag, I think it was a mutual agreement between the SA soldiers and the rebels to stop the fight. Also I think the South africans might have been significantly desarmed by the rebels at the end of the agreement in order for them not to pose a threat to the new president of CAR.

The report released is the most factual and up to date report.

Total number of SANDF troops was 260 with 200 flown in during the battel. This is not the first time we seen child solders but it is the first time we have been attacked by them. Remember many of those parabats would be farthers so shooting a child then hearing said child cry for there mothers is not a easy thing to go through.



It is not hard for them to get up to 500 kills in that type of battel. The SANDF where on the deffense and the rebels where trying to over run them. A one 81mm motar and kill mor than 10 people if they group togerther.


Has for rebel wounded. I posted a source dealling with the fact the hospitils are over flowing with rebel wounded. Since even the Rebels Say the heavest fight was with the SANDF it is resonbil to assume the SANDF killed a lot of them.


The SANDF where not dissarmend. Though they where out of ammo at that time for all there support level wepaons. And there vechiels damged and destroyed by gun fire.

agaugust:


You too can spend your time to do the comparison and post for us all to see, or there's no Google in south africa ?

The exercise would also help us to judge your intelligence and fairness.

Problem is we don't know what they will be armend with since they not built yet. I would not bother comparing them with the chinnes version.

andrewza:


The report released is the most factual and up to date report.

Total number of SANDF troops was 260 with 200 flown in during the battel. This is not the first time we seen child solders but it is the first time we have been attacked by them. Remember many of those parabats would be farthers so shooting a child then hearing said child cry for there mothers is not a easy thing to go through.



It is not hard for them to get up to 500 kills in that type of battel. The SANDF where on the deffense and the rebels where trying to over run them. A one 81mm motar and kill mor than 10 people if they group togerther.


Has for rebel wounded. I posted a source dealling with the fact the hospitils are over flowing with rebel wounded. Since even the Rebels Say the heavest fight was with the SANDF it is resonbil to assume the SANDF killed a lot of them.


The SANDF where not dissarmend. Though they where out of ammo at that time for all there support level wepaons. And there vechiels damged and destroyed by gun fire.

OK I believe you.
But here is my suggestion, in this type of operation always make sure you have enough men to fight alone. Always make sure you have sufficient logistics. You were betrayed, that's a fact. Chad and France probably have something to do with it. France should have joined your men in battle but didn't. On the other hand, 13 hours is enough to bring in air support and to fly in more men from South Africa. So some people are not doing theirs jobs well. Unless of course you lost communication.

patriot4: OK I believe you.
But here is my suggestion, in this type of operation always make sure you have enough men to fight alone. Always make sure you have sufficient logistics. You were betrayed, that's a fact. Chad and France probably have something to do with it. France should have joined your men in battle but didn't. On the other hand, 13 hours is enough to bring in air support and to fly in more men from South Africa. So some people are not doing theirs jobs well. Unless of course you lost communication.

The problem air support is range. Has in it is to far. Though the DRC will let use the air basses the problem there nothing there. Meaning it not kust taking off and flying to the resscue. We needed to set up a air base closer to the battel.

patriot4: OK I believe you.
But here is my suggestion, in this type of operation always make sure you have enough men to fight alone. Always make sure you have sufficient logistics. You were betrayed, that's a fact. Chad and France probably have something to do with it. France should have joined your men in battle but didn't. On the other hand, 13 hours is enough to bring in air support and to fly in more men from South Africa. So some people are not doing theirs jobs well. Unless of course you lost communication.

@patriot, I agree with you 100%, the south africans placed their hope on france, and the french betrayed them. You do not go into a country which is at war, to protect your holdings, with just 400 under equipped men. That for me was the first military failure. They should have gone into CAR with nothing less than a fully mechanised battalion of troops, with at the very least, 2 attack helicopters to provide air cover.

The south africans have major minning holdings in CAR, and france wasn't going to let that happen. The french had APV's, ILV's, with 50 cals, more than enough to send the rebels running into their mothers wombs, but they tactfully, avoided any sort of intervention. Instead the french went to the airports.


I believe the french wanted bozeze toppled. The new man in charge of CAR has revoked all contracts the south africans had signed with bozize, the deposed president. He has invited the europeans, and in particular the french, to come in and take over the minning contracts.

This is both a military and economic loss for south africa. I still maintain that the mission was bound for failure, as soon as south africa only deployed 400 lightly armed troops.

Henry120:


@patriot, I agree with you 100%, the south africans placed their hope on france, and the french betrayed them. You do not go into a country which is at war, to protect your holdings, with just 400 under equipped men. That for me was the first military failure. They should have gone into CAR with nothing less than a fully mechanised battalion of troops, with at the very least, 2 attack helicopters to provide air cover.

The south africans have major minning holdings in CAR, and france wasn't going to let that happen. The french had APV's, ILV's, with 50 cals, more than enough to send the rebels running into their mothers wombs, but they tactfully, avoided any sort of intervention. Instead the french went to the airports.


I believe the french wanted bozeze toppled. The new man in charge of CAR has revoked all contracts the south africans had signed with bozize, the deposed president. He has invited the europeans, and in particular the french, to come in and take over the minning contracts.

This is both a military and economic loss for south africa. I still maintain that the mission was bound for failure, as soon as south africa only deployed 400 lightly armed troops.

Has I have said before. France never gave up on it's holdings in Africa.

andrewza:


Has I have said before. France never gave up on it's holdings in Africa.

South Africa and Nigeria should form an alliance to challenge France.

andrewza:


Has I have said before. France never gave up on it's holdings in Africa.

Nigeria is not too far fron CAR. It's a shame SA's mission wasn't done in collaboration with Nigeria.

patriot4: South Africa and Nigeria should form an alliance to challenge France.

Alliance from where, when the south africans are busy spying on us(nigeria).

nigeria is fast becoming a western puppet.

andrewza: nigeria is fast becoming a western puppet.

your observations ?

andrewza: nigeria is fast becoming a western puppet.

Not true.

agaugust:


You too can spend your time to do the comparison and post for us all to see, or there's no Google in south africa ?

The exercise would also help us to judge your intelligence and fairness.

What do u take me for a average high school graduate fool.

You said you will proof the capability of the Type-056 against SAN warships.

Now let me school you, your Type-056 is essentially a inshore patrol craft with mid tech ASW capabilities its hull is simply to small to carry a adequate AA. The Type-056 has a limited literol water or enemy water capability, that said its still a very capable of conducting and offering effective deterrent as a inshore naval vessel.

To simply put it those ships aren't built for deep water naval combat it simply doesn't carry the punch the Valour warships has or the operational range, so its a fact that they're no match for SAN.

Go read up yourself and stop acting like a fool

patriot4:
Not true.

http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/narticles/nigerian-us%20military%20pact,%20fine%20prints.htm

agaugust psated this verey link.

andrewza:

http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/narticles/nigerian-us%20military%20pact,%20fine%20prints.htm

agaugust psated this verey link.

come on we have military pacts with at least 10 countries.

DictatorZAR:

What do u take me for a average high school graduate fool.

You said you will proof the capability of the Type-056 against SAN warships.

Now let me school you, your Type-056 is essentially a inshore patrol craft with mid tech ASW capabilities its hull is simply to small to carry a adequate AA. The Type-056 has a limited literol water or enemy water capability, that said its still a very capable of conducting and offering effective deterrent as a inshore naval vessel.

To simply put it those ships aren't built for deep water naval combat it simply doesn't carry the punch the Valour warships has or the operational range, so its a fact that they're no match for SAN.

Go read up yourself and stop acting like a fool

Are you a Chinese navy admiral or you are the project engineer leading team that built Type 056 warship ? Silence is the best answer for a F00L like you


.

DictatorZAR:

What do u take me for a average high school graduate fool.

You said you will proof the capability of the Type-056 against SAN warships.

Now let me school you, your Type-056 is essentially a inshore patrol craft with mid tech ASW capabilities its hull is simply to small to carry a adequate AA. The Type-056 has a limited literol water or enemy water capability, that said its still a very capable of conducting and offering effective deterrent as a inshore naval vessel.

To simply put it those ships aren't built for deep water naval combat it simply doesn't carry the punch the Valour warships has or the operational range, so its a fact that they're no match for SAN.

Go read up yourself and stop acting like a fool

Are you a Chinese navy admiral or you are the project engineer leading team that built Type 056 warship ? Silence is the best answer for a F00L like you


..
.

andrewza: nigeria is fast becoming a western puppet.

Says who? Andrewza, I guess.

South africa has been making rash decisions. It all began with gadaffi, ivory coast, CAR. You have virtually flunked all decisions you have made. South africa keeps supporting dictators.

Now compare with nigeria, libya done, ivory coast, guinue bissau, mali. South africa doesn't apply reasoning when making decisions, so you guys end up embarrassing yourselves at every turn.

I don't see how making well thought through independent decisions makes us western puppets.

Valour/type056
Displacment
3700/1440
Length
121m/95.6m
Beam
16.34m/11.6m
Draught
5.95m/4.4m

It terms of size the valour is much larger. And is far heavier. Much more than it's size. What dose this mean though. The type 056 will be able to go in to shalower waters but not by mutch. Deep sea the increased weight of the Valour will let it handel the sea better.


Propulsion
2 diesiel props/2 diesiel
1 water jet
With one extra engien it has one extra fale safe. Both have the same reported speed(28knts) and I expect they have the same true speed(31knts) so not much help.

Crew
156/60
Range
8000nm/2000nm
Both the large crew and range give the valour a edge


Sensors
Surveillance Radar: Thales Naval France MRR-3D NG G-band multi-role radar
Optical Radar Tracker: 2 Reutech RTS 6400 monopulse X-band (I/J bands) combined radar and optronics trackers
Electro-optical Tracker: Reutech Electro-optical tracker
Identification Friend or Foe: Tellumat Integrated Naval IFF system
Target Designation Sights: M-Tek Target Designation Sights
Sonar: Thales UMS4132 Kingklip sonar
Obstacle avoidance sonar: MDS 3060

Type 360 is an air/surface search radar is the only list rafar sytem for the type 056. If so then the valour is one again far in the lead


EW
ESM/ECM: Saab Grintek Avitronics SME 100/200 ESM & ELINT
Decoys: 2 Saab Grintek Avitronics MRL (96 decoys)

None listed and could be none is carried.


Wepaons
76mm/76mm
1 twin 35mm aft,/2 30mm midship
2 20mm midship
2 12mm remout guns
8 exoct SSM/4 YJ-83 (C-803) SSM
16 umkonto SAMpeac time load out there are a extra 16 unloaded VLC though the plan is to load the long rand Radar guided umkonto when development is complet/ 8 FL-3000N in a turret mount aft.
4 torpedos/6 torpedos


1meduim or 2 light helicoptes/ 1 light helicopter(no support sytem)


Was dose this show. Well nothing new for me. The voulour is a true war ship built to fight warships not MEND and pirats. Though this is for the chinnes version so anserws nothing. The type 056 is ment to operat with and in support of a large navy in china. No be the main force of a navy. Where the valour where built to fight at sea, win at sea and be unbeaten at sea.

So the situation in Libya and Ivory coast is better? , abeg don't fool yourself, Nigeria went in Ivory coast because France asked and to defend France interests.
Ask yourself why didn't go to Mali before French approval?

Henry120:

Says who? Andrewza, I guess.

South africa has been making rash decisions. It all began with gadaffi, ivory coast, CAR. You have virtually flunked all decisions you have made. South africa keeps supporting dictators.

Now compare with nigeria, libya done, ivory coast, guinue bissau, mali. South africa doesn't apply reasoning when making decisions, so you guys end up embarrassing yourselves at every turn.

I don't see how making well thought through independent decisions makes us western puppets.

CAMEROONPRIDE: So the situation in Libya and Ivory coast is better? , abeg don't fool yourself, Nigeria went in Ivory coast because France asked and to defend France interests.
Ask yourself why didn't go to Mali before French approval?

We offered to fight the terrorists in mali before "french approval". We just didn't want to spend too much money on it like we did in Liberia and sierra leone. The only thing we were waiting for was on agreement with UN consigning the fundings. That is done. And as you may know, we are not taking orders from France.
Go and ask biya who gives him orders ?

Why did Nigeria complian about a SAN ship near ivory coast but not french and other Nato ships and french troops on the ground that prevent a diplomating out come and went straight to useing force.

SA suported the no fly zone in libya to force diplomatinc solustion. But latter went after NATO for viloating that no fly zone by attacking libyian ground forces in support of rebbels.

It seems Seleka has western(french backing and support of some kind. Seleka rebel leaders operat in freedom from from france and seleka has handed the country to the west on a diomond platter.


SA is trying to stop out side influnce in Africa. We basically threanted Botswan because there was a rumour they may want a US base. Where nigeria dose nothing about niger.