CraigB:

You need to lay off Wiki sometimes, Mr fakeman.


"None of the bunker’s survivors heard the shot that killed Hitler. At 15.15 on April 30th, Bormann, Goebbels, Heinz Linge, Hitler’s valet, Otto Gunshce and Artur Axmann, Head of the Hitler Youth, entered Hitler’s sitting room. Gunsche and Linge wrapped the body of Hitler in a blanket and carried it to the Reich Chancellery garden. Eva Braun’s body was also carried up and laid next to Hitler’s. Both bodies were laid near to the bunker’s exit. The bodies were drenched in petrol and set alight. Both Bormann and Goebbels watched this. Goebbels later committed suicide. Bormann disappeared and his body was never found, sparking off rumours that he managed somehow to flee to South America."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/death_of_adolf_hitler1.htm

dont challenge me on military topics, i drink war history like water. i have defeated all south african soldiers many times on this forum, so who are you ? ...fool !

"Tests on skull fragment cast doubt on Adolf Hitler suicide story
Bone with bullet hole found by Russians in 1946 came from an unknown woman, not the German leader"


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/27/adolf-hitler-suicide-skull-fragment

.

.


[size=16pt]tested and proved....

Otomat anti-ship missile penetrated ALL powerful american navy missile defenses....[/size]


"Testing and the future of Otomat :

There is no known combat use of Otomat but there were many tests, like the one in 1987, when a Venezuelan Lupo frigate hit an old US destroyer used as target at 122 km, leaving a 6 m hole in it.[10] Flight took a little over than 400 seconds. In another example at least 8 missiles were bought by US Navy: thanks to a new evasive, final maneuver, the majority of these weapons, called LRAT (Long Range Attack Target) penetrated inside the formidable missile defenses of US ships. All in all, this missile was and is a very powerful weapon."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomat

NO umkhonto missile can stop an Otomat missile, tested and proved...fact !!!

nigerian navy NNS Aradu's all powerful tested and proved sea surface -skimming Otomat anti-ship will sink all south african navy warships....FACT !!!

@zaandrew just got banned above, he insulted me because i proved south african Umkhonto missiles CANNOT do what DENEL fraudulently claims as the missile was NEVER tested as a defence against sea skimming anti-ship missiles, the truth hurt him so bad...he insulted me big time and he got banned big time

lets see him use his second email account to login as @andrewza...after he finishes cooking breakfast for his navy officers...south african navy cook/chef

when you log-in again, @andrewza, please show us source to prove that Umkhonto missile was tested against any anti-ship missile anywhere in this world ....show us proof

.

agaugust:

dont challenge me on military topics, i drink war history like water. i have defeated all south african soldiers many times on this forum, so who are you ? ...fool !

"Tests on skull fragment cast doubt on Adolf Hitler suicide story
Bone with bullet hole found by Russians in 1946 came from an unknown woman, not the German leader"


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/27/adolf-hitler-suicide-skull-fragment

.

You're fake.

From empathic denial to "doubts".


///



"The bodies were drenched in petrol and set alight. Both Bormann and Goebbels watched this. Goebbels later committed suicide. Bormann disappeared and his body was never found, sparking off rumours that he managed somehow to flee to South America."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/death_of_adolf_hitler1.htm

MiguelMi6: you are right.Ethiopia belongs up there too.
I guess this place is a divided house between countries hence why you guys are curious of my originality.I'm neither for or against enemy or home.neutral mind here.Am an Oceanographer who takes interest in military matters and studies about them.I do hope to broaden my horizon here.you guys argue like Generals,I'm impressed.

my friend in USA is named Miguel and a Hispanic/Latino.

welcome on board. you can be a neutral judge or neutral opinion giver....nobody is your friend or foe...so you could judge peoples comments fairly and much better.

in case you hang around...next 10 days i am simulating a detailed real live combat of south african naval attack on nigeria with nigeria defending from the air and sea (the land defense was posted on page 236).

also later, i will simulate a nigerian naval attack on south africa...surprises will be seen, and i hope people identify the weaknesses in their military defenses and go talk to their country's ministers for defense about it, instead of pretending that those great weaknesses are not existing. to be fore-warned is to be fore-armed

.

CraigB:

.

Yeah right!

chris365:

even the white pig's apartheid south african regime had to unwillingly hand over the country to what they referred as terrorists after years of unsuccessful war against them, to the extent of invading other countries that harbored them. Now he feels his country is strong enough to fight a group 10 times deadlier than ANC was.

dull kid that just spits without reasoning

FACT !

.

Henry120:

Yes, the military is inadequate to deal with terrorism holistically. Same with south-africa been unable to effectively deal with poaching. You should learn to your that pint-sized brian of yours.

south africa could NOT STOP rhino poaching and ANC freedom fighter/terrorists FACT !

Boko Haram will die a natural death after some years....history proves that...

ANC south africa

IRA britain/northern ireland

TAMIL TIGERS sri lanka

ETA BASQUE spain

UNITA angola

MEND/ nigeria

i believe in war history....it always re-plays itself in every generation...same pattern...same grand finale


where is niger delta militancy today ? they killed more soldiers than boko haram !


.

Henry120:

I'm only going to give you this attention once you twerp. The personnel of nigerian intelligence services are well trained, better trained than her south african counter-parts. The nigerian DSS is the best intelligence agency in africa. However training alone cannot win you a war, you need to have money, experience, equipment and expertise, all of these in there requisite numbers.

Look at the attack on the naval yard in washington D.C this past few days, would you say it's a lack of training that led to the avoidable loss of life?

Training again is holistic. There is not a single version of training. Admitting that there are shortfalls isn't a sign of weakness. It shows that you are aware of your areas of strength and are prepared to grow your area of shortfalls, and not live in a delusional state like you south africans.

You are the only Nigerians who is not Egostical ,because when I pointed out that shortcomings most Nigerians did not agree with me,Personnal I wish them to come on top of these challenge yes you can't kill an ideology but at least if the boys can have the ability to identify the moles in the Nigerian army half of their battle will be won

agaugust: @zaandrew just got banned above, he insulted me because i proved south african Umkhonto missiles CANNOT do what DENEL fraudulently claims as the missile was NEVER tested as a defence against sea skimming anti-ship missiles, the truth hurt him so bad...he insulted me big time and he got banned big time

lets see him use his second email account to login as @andrewza...after he finishes cooking breakfast for his navy officers...south african navy cook/chef

when you log-in again, @andrewza, please show us source to prove that Umkhonto missile was tested against any anti-ship missile anywhere in this world ....show us proof

.

foolish little balled imbercail

was i baned

agaugust: @zaandrew just got banned above, he insulted me because i proved south african Umkhonto missiles CANNOT do what DENEL fraudulently claims as the missile was NEVER tested as a defence against sea skimming anti-ship missiles, the truth hurt him so bad...he insulted me big time and he got banned big time

lets see him use his second email account to login as @andrewza...after he finishes cooking breakfast for his navy officers...south african navy cook/chef

when you log-in again, @andrewza, please show us source to prove that Umkhonto missile was tested against any anti-ship missile anywhere in this world ....show us proof

.

by the way the suka speed is over 1000km the otomat is 1000km to 1100km the skua and a min altitude on 10m

agaugust: @zaandrew just got banned above, he insulted me because i proved south african Umkhonto missiles CANNOT do what DENEL fraudulently claims as the missile was NEVER tested as a defence against sea skimming anti-ship missiles, the truth hurt him so bad...he insulted me big time and he got banned big time

lets see him use his second email account to login as @andrewza...after he finishes cooking breakfast for his navy officers...south african navy cook/chef

when you log-in again, @andrewza, please show us source to prove that Umkhonto missile was tested against any anti-ship missile anywhere in this world ....show us proof

.

***moronic*** ***dipshit*** who can not fight his way out of a wet paperbag if he had a knife

you see i was baned because your nigerian website spambot has zero brains

agaugust: .


[size=16pt]tested and proved....

Otomat anti-ship missile penetrated ALL powerful american navy missile defenses....[/size]


"Testing and the future of Otomat :

There is no known combat use of Otomat but there were many tests, like the one in 1987, when a Venezuelan Lupo frigate hit an old US destroyer used as target at 122 km, leaving a 6 m hole in it.[10] Flight took a little over than 400 seconds. In another example at least 8 missiles were bought by US Navy: thanks to a new evasive, final maneuver, the majority of these weapons, called LRAT (Long Range Attack Target) penetrated inside the formidable missile defenses of US ships. All in all, this missile was and is a very powerful weapon."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomat

NO umkhonto missile can stop an Otomat missile, tested and proved...fact !!!

nigerian navy NNS Aradu's all powerful tested and proved sea surface -skimming Otomat anti-ship will sink all south african navy warships....FACT !!!

when was that the 1980s

andrewza:

when was that the 1980s

1961 SAM-3 missile shot down 1999 american air force super modern stealth jet fighter in Bosnia war. fool

.

agaugust: @zaandrew just got banned above, he insulted me because i proved south african Umkhonto missiles CANNOT do what DENEL fraudulently claims as the missile was NEVER tested as a defence against sea skimming anti-ship missiles, the truth hurt him so bad...he insulted me big time and he got banned big time

lets see him use his second email account to login as @andrewza...after he finishes cooking breakfast for his navy officers...south african navy cook/chef

when you log-in again, @andrewza, please show us source to prove that Umkhonto missile was tested against any anti-ship missile anywhere in this world ....show us proof

.

You are crazy, I told you that Umkhonto marry the target by locking into it like a magnet. It is fully capable of stopping any kind of missile, sea skemming or not, umkhonto is designed to follow the target at any direction. Denel does not claim, they test their weapon. Did you think that Denel engineers never had the so called sea skemming type of anti-ship missiles on their minds when they designed the defence system of their valour-class? The Umkhonto missiles were not designed to attack but to provide an all round defence against any type of missile.

Professor @Agaugust your claims are outdated and Denel's engineers are more clever than you are, they have already thought about that long time and wouldn't dare to provide SANDF with an obsolete defence system. I know that you find it hard to believe, but Umkhonto is designed as everything in one. Have you ever heard of all in one before? Example of that would be your i-phone which is a combination of computer, calculator, GPS, phone, MP3 player, etc. You can buy all that separately isn't ?

Umkhonto missile is one of its kind and there are only few of that type in the whole world. It has characteristics of combination of defence missiles in one and so there is no need for a separate defence missile which does a specific assignment like anti ship missile-missile as you preferred it to be. Give yourself time and research about Umkhonto than making unfounded statements as if you were the one who invented it.

andrewza:


by the way the suka speed is over 1000km the otomat is 1000km to 1100km the skua and a min altitude on 10m

thank you for finally defeating yourself at last....Otomat sea hugging anti-ship missile flies to attack enemy ships at 2m above sea level, Umkhonto anti-aircraft missile was tested ONLY against a sea skua drone that does not carry out any evasive maneuvers like the Otomat sensors and the high flying sea skua cannot go below 10m above sea level....Otomat sinks lower to 2m above sea waters too low for any Umkhonto missile to stop ...fact !!

"Flight

The boosters made by ROXEL, are positioned at the flanks, gives enough speed allowing the turbojet to start, while the wings opens, then in 4 seconds the missile reach a 250 m/s speed and 200 m height, stabilizes his flight and descends to 20 m cruising at low altitude. At this time the auto-pilot and the altimeter allow holding the right directions to the target. The Otomat missile flies at around 1,000 km/h controlled with the four cross winglets in the aft, behind the main fixed wings to sustain the weapon.

While the missiles flies it receive the input at mid-course, then, at only 6 km from the target activates the onboard radar to reduce reaction time from the target, with Otomats two dimensional radar system, the weapon simply continues to fly to the ship, with the altitude falling from 20m to 2m"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomat


thank you for proving me correct. get ready for my new naval blockade battle next 10 days...i am using NNS Aradu Otomat to sink South african valour frigate...fact !!!

.

agaugust:

1961 SAM-3 missile shot down 1999 american air force super modern stealth jet fighter in Bosnia war. fool

.

F117 has been around since 1981 and i was not talking about the SAM when i mentioned year but the radar and fire control the SA3 is still a threat to this day but a 1960 era radar is not

Fighter Pilot:

You are crazy, I told you that Umkhonto marry the target by locking into it like a magnet. It is fully capable of stopping any kind of missile, sea skemming or not, umkhonto is designed to follow the target at any direction. Denel does not claim, they test their weapon.

Professor @Agaugust your claims are outdated and Denel's engineers are more clever than you are.

Give yourself time and research about Umkhonto than making unfounded statements as if you were the one who invented it.

the research has already been done by south africans and it was concluded that south african valour frigate defense against anti-ship missiles is very poor....read below...you lost this argument .....


[size=16pt]Valour frigate defence is weak...experts reveal[/size]



"The South African Denel Umkhonto-IR is a short-range (12km) anti-aircraft missile, which is still in its development stage, having been "tested only to a limited extent" , while "several navies and air forces already have supersonic anti-ship missiles. How the Umkhonto will deal with these is not known."

The frigates can have their capacity doubled to 32 Umkhontos, but will probably carry only eight missiles and so "can easily be swamped by saturation attack *7"

Also, after a missile has been fired, empty launch canisters have to be removed from their silos, but: "As far as can be determined, this cannot be done by the Valour-class at sea, so reloading will have to be done alongside in habour port or require a replenishment vessel, as a depot ship, in calm seas".

Heitman admitted the missiles might have difficulty intercepting supersonic assaults.

He added that no navy was able to reload its vertically launched anti-aircraft missiles at sea.

http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/articles10/weak_ships.html


NNS Aradu Otomat missile is fully tested in Europe and America against the best american air defense missile and Otomat won.

NNS Aradu can sink all south african navy warships in one day ....fact !!

.

andrewza:

F117 has been around since 1981 and i was not talking about the SAM when i mentioned year but the radar and fire control the SA3 is still a threat to this day but a 1960 era radar is not

please borrow or steal another man`s brain if yours is malfunctioning.

1978 american F-16 is NOT the same electronic capability as 2013 F-16, america upgrades its aircraft almost every year.

1981 F-117 is not the same as 1999 F-117 that was shot down....the 1999 jet was upgraded to the best technology in the world at that time, i know about american weapons more than you do, so sharaaap !



.

agaugust:

thank you for finally defeating yourself at last....Otomat sea hugging anti-ship missile flies to attack enemy ships at 2m above sea level, Umkhonto anti-aircraft missile was tested ONLY against a sea skua drone that does not carry out any evasive maneuvers like the Otomat sensors and the high flying sea skua cannot go below 10m above sea level....Otomat sinks lower to 2m above sea waters too low for any Umkhonto missile to stop ...fact !!

"Flight

The boosters made by ROXEL, are positioned at the flanks, gives enough speed allowing the turbojet to start, while the wings opens, then in 4 seconds the missile reach a 250 m/s speed and 200 m height, stabilizes his flight and descends to 20 m cruising at low altitude. At this time the auto-pilot and the altimeter allow holding the right directions to the target. The Otomat missile flies at around 1,000 km/h controlled with the four cross winglets in the aft, behind the main fixed wings to sustain the weapon.

While the missiles flies it receive the input at mid-course, then, at only 6 km from the target activates the onboard radar to reduce reaction time from the target, with Otomats two dimensional radar system, the weapon simply continues to fly to the ship, with the altitude falling from 20m to 2m"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomat


thank you for proving me correct. get ready for my new naval blockade battle next 10 days...i am using NNS Aradu Otomat to sink South african valour frigate...fact !!!

.

How did i defeat my self the radar on a valour can pick up RHIBs thus the umkhonto could easily reach the otomat, the umkhonto does not even have to score a direct hit since it uses a proximity fuse and a large warhead,

the ottomat only drops to 2m for the final approach for most of the flight it is at well above 10m


Now why don't you stop embarrassing yourself or continue either way i dont care

agaugust:

the research has already been done by south africans and it was concluded that south african valour frigate defense against anti-ship missiles is very poor....read below...you lost this argument .....


[size=16pt]Valour frigate defence is weak...experts reveal[/size]



"The South African Denel Umkhonto-IR is a short-range (12km) anti-aircraft missile, which is still in its development stage, having been "tested only to a limited extent" , while "several navies and air forces already have supersonic anti-ship missiles. How the Umkhonto will deal with these is not known."

The frigates can have their capacity doubled to 32 Umkhontos, but will probably carry only eight missiles and so "can easily be swamped by saturation attack *7"

Also, after a missile has been fired, empty launch canisters have to be removed from their silos, but: "As far as can be determined, this cannot be done by the Valour-class at sea, so reloading will have to be done alongside in habour port or require a replenishment vessel, as a depot ship, in calm seas".

Heitman admitted the missiles might have difficulty intercepting supersonic assaults.

He added that no navy was able to reload its vertically launched anti-aircraft missiles at sea.

http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/articles10/weak_ships.html


NNS Aradu Otomat missile is fully tested in Europe and America against the best american air defense missile and Otomat won.

NNS Aradu can sink all south african navy warships in one day ....fact !!

.

the report is from 2007 the umkhonto was test in 2008 vs supersonic targets not to mention the ottomat is not suppersonic, they all so carry 16sams.

Basically the entire artical is outdated please try again

agaugust:

please borrow or steal another man`s brain if yours is malfunctioning.

1978 american F-16 is NOT the same electronic capability as 2013 F-16, america upgrades its aircraft almost every year.

1981 F-117 is not the same as 1999 F-117 that was shot down....the 1999 jet was upgraded to the best technology in the world at that time, i know about american weapons more than you do, so sharaaap !



.

and that means what, so the serbes never updated or upgraded there radar and fire control since 1960?

andrewza:

How did i defeat my self the radar on a valour can pick up RHIBs thus the umkhonto could easily reach the otomat, the umkhonto does not even have to score a direct hit since it uses a proximity fuse and a large warhead,

the ottomat only drops to 2m for the final approach for most of the flight it is at well above 10m


Now why don't you stop embarrassing yourself or continue either way i dont care

Otomat has radars and sensors, the command and control officer that launched the missile is not a fool, his NNS ARADU has 180km range DA-08 air search and track radar screen, once he sees valour frigate launch Umkhonto missile, he guides the missile to descend to lowest sea skimming 2m level to avoid any enemy defense.....i have sank your expensive valour warship and wasted your government`s money....fact !!

find a new topic to argue with me...you lost this one

.

agaugust:

1961 SAM-3 missile shot down 1999 american air force super modern stealth jet fighter in Bosnia war. fool

.

We do not claim that ancient SAM system cannot shoot down aircrafts. Their primary role is to shoot down low flying fighter jets. Our assertion was that the world has now moved so fast that they have developed technology to jam the system used by those SAMs. The ancient SAM have now attracted more disadvantages than advantages than before and will only make you vulnerable to use such air defence system against any country flying 4th generation fighters. They might even demolish your air defence system before you could even shoot down one of the enermy's fighters. I don't think anyone would want to rely on luck to shoot down enemy's fighters rather is better to upgrade your system to match the enemy's firepower and give them a good run for their money.

andrewza:

and that means what, so the serbes never updated or upgraded there radar and fire control since 1960?

post source to prove the serbs upgraded all their SAM-3 in 1999.

what if i say nigeria too has upgraded its Roland SAM without s source proof

andrewza:

the report is from 2007 the umkhonto was test in 2008 vs supersonic targets not to mention the ottomat is not suppersonic, they all so carry 16sams.

Basically the entire artical is outdated please try again

show me source to prove the test of Umkhonto missile against a sea-skimming 2 meter (6 feet above sea water) low level anti-ship missile, show me now...fool

new topic please
.

agaugust:

Otomat has radars and sensors, the command and control officer that launched the missile is not a fool, his NNS ARADU has 180km range DA-08 air search and track radar screen, once he sees valour frigate launch Umkhonto missile, he guides the missile to descend to lowest sea skimming 2m level to avoid any enemy defense.....i have sank your expensive valour warship and wasted your government`s money....fact !!

find a new topic to argue with me...you lost this one

.

A1st world countries have trouble picking up the valour at 180km, B you radar is going to be jamed, C the signal used to contol the ottomat can be jamed D it can still be hit at 2m

agaugust:

post source to prove the serbs upgraded all their SAM-3 in 1999.

what if i say nigeria too has upgraded its Roland SAM without s source proof

"We used a little innovation to update our 1960s-vintage SAMs to detect the Nighthawk," Dani said. He declined to discuss specifics, saying the exact nature of the modification to the warhead's guidance system remains a military secret.

It involved "electromagnetic waves," was all that Dani — who now owns a small bakery in this sleepy village just north of Belgrade — would divulge.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-26-serb-stealth_x.htm

you real got to stop doubting me

agaugust:

show me source to prove the test of Umkhonto missile against a sea-skimming 2 meter (6 feet above sea water) low level anti-ship missile, show me now...fool

new topic please
.

was posted twice now so just go sit on a sharp spike

agaugust:

the research has already been done by south africans and it was concluded that south african valour frigate defense against anti-ship missiles is very poor....read below...you lost this argument .....


[size=16pt]Valour frigate defence is weak...experts reveal[/size]



"The South African Denel Umkhonto-IR is a short-range (12km) anti-aircraft missile, which is still in its development stage, having been "tested only to a limited extent" , while "several navies and air forces already have supersonic anti-ship missiles. How the Umkhonto will deal with these is not known."

The frigates can have their capacity doubled to 32 Umkhontos, but will probably carry only eight missiles and so "can easily be swamped by saturation attack *7"

Also, after a missile has been fired, empty launch canisters have to be removed from their silos, but: "As far as can be determined, this cannot be done by the Valour-class at sea, so reloading will have to be done alongside in habour port or require a replenishment vessel, as a depot ship, in calm seas".

Heitman admitted the missiles might have difficulty intercepting supersonic assaults.

He added that no navy was able to reload its vertically launched anti-aircraft missiles at sea.

http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/articles10/weak_ships.html


NNS Aradu Otomat missile is fully tested in Europe and America against the best american air defense missile and Otomat won.

NNS Aradu can sink all south african navy warships in one day ....fact !!

.

You see that is where you are going wrong. The umkhonto is one of the latest technology and that America have never tested it against Umkhonto. I say again, Umkhonto is one of its kind and there are only few of such type in the whole world. Umkhonto is fully capable to stop any kind of anti-ship missiles be it sea skemming or not. Do you even know that Exocet is one of the best anti-ship missiles in the world, no wonder the US is even planning to procure them and have been testing them recently. There is nothing special about otomat that makes it invincible, unless you are only playing hard to believe like Thomas in the bible.