AkpaMgbor:

When you are caught in your own lies and deceit you resort to insults, which is very typical and expected...I'm taking the word of Christ the foundation of Christianity and not your veiled theological deceits..

why don't you show m where the early church tithed in "obedience" to this supposed admonition of Jesus? btw I never insulted you.Is my statement wrong? When did the dispensation of grace begin?

Even tithes payers know Freeze is only speaking out heresies made them to be undetered by his wailings...

PaChukwudi44:


Dangote did not ask people to pay him money to run his business.He worked and made his own money and is free to spend it the way he wants.Pastors live off donations from members.You cannot take donations from indigent church members and live estravagantly.In the US the health sectratary the equivalent of Nigeria's minister of health was forced to resign because he flew in first class.Not even a private jet but for flying in first class.Living off public funds always comes with a responsibility

You have heard him but just choose to ignored the points he raised.

One.
There are hundreds of church brands in Nigeria, tens of thousands of pastors, how many of them have corporate jets at their disposal. Are they up to ten. So in the world of jets Nigerian pastors remain in the minority.

Two.
Amongst the few who use jets almost all of them have extensive church networks which keep them on the road and in the air week in week out. The have multiple speaking engagements within and outside their church networks, they have extensive administrative responsibilities and do a lot of social responsibility activities. How that is possible using scheduled commercial air services beats me. If corporate executives cannot do it how much more pastors with much bigger responsibilities.

Third.
Security. For a start if such vile remarks can be made on social media you can expect the intent in reality to be much worse. From atheists through fundamentalists to terrorists seeking to do harm (Popes in the past have survived assassination attempts). Today his security is top notch. Even ordinary folks, reporters, church members will not make commercial travel and unsecured access in travel possible. It has been so since the time of Christ.

Granted there is a bit of class/status symbol thing going on with perhaps one or two but most of the ones I know who fly corporate regularly is out of absolute necessity. And if their church members and other Christians in far flung locations felt this was an inhibition they would gladly donate to see their GO's and what have you more frequently.

What are we against?
Are we against tithe?
0r against pastors becoming rich?
or against not doing charity work.
If anybody serve God well, weather pastor or member without living in sin, God must bless the person and his unborn children.
Una talk say Jesus became poor that we might rich, abeg how.
when? na for for heaven.

Achorise:
I believe everything you said but you missed the last point, you still try small, that money was not meant for the poor, I have read it myself.
Paul was never involved in sharing of things for the poor, he concentrated on the word and prayers.
It was Bananas was incharge of sharing the tables.
The Philippians church gave so much to Paul out of their poor state.

That was where this prayer came "my God shall supply all your needs, according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus."
Brother, nobi verse ooo, cos nairaland people blood quick the verse.
explain something for me pls 2cor 8:7-9..Why did the bible say make sure you excel in this grace of giving.
All the same churches should involved in charity work.

Oga giving or freewill donation is not tithing..
The argument is against the doctrine of tithe

PaChukwudi44:


Dangote did not ask people to pay him money to run his business.He worked and made his own money and is free to spend it the way he wants.Pastors live off donations from members.You cannot take donations from indigent church members and live estravagantly.In the US the health sectratary the equivalent of Nigeria's minister of health was forced to resign because he flew in first class.Not even a private jet but for flying in first class.Living off public funds always comes with a responsibility

A Nigeria with total absolute deviation from reality; Nigerians want their spiritual leaders to pray for them to get rich want the same spiritual leaders to be in total penury and poverty. What an evil world we are.

PaChukwudi44:


why don't you show m where the early church tithed in "obedience" to this supposed admonition of Jesus? btw I never insulted you.Is my statement wrong? When did the dispensation of grace begin?

I'm using a mobile phone so I won't be able to delve deep into this with citations but Colossians 2:16 has this to say;

Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

This was Paul talking to the gentile converts in colossus and that was because the Jewish converts still practiced some of their traditions like circumscision and Passover feast..heck even Paul was attending and observing the Passover feasts in 1st Corinthians 5:7... he even told the non Jewish converts to observe it....

AkpaMgbor:

I will NOT stoop to your level of insults, trust me I am very capable of dishing it in droves...

It's not my intention to insult you. Don't be offended.

It's just nauseating that people complicate life by creating unnecessary FurtherMaths out of basic arithmetics.

By the way...you are not a retar.d incase you're thinking I was calling you that...

Reference:


You have heard him but just choose to ignored the points he raised.

One.
There are hundreds of church brands in Nigeria, tens of thousands of pastors, how many of them have corporate jets at their disposal. Are they up to ten. So in the world of jets Nigerian pastors remain in the minority.

Two.
Amongst the few who use jets almost all of them have extensive church networks which keep them on the road and in the air week in week out. The have multiple speaking engagements within and outside their church networks, they have extensive administrative responsibilities and do a lot of social responsibility activities. How that is possible using scheduled commercial air services beats me. If corporate executives cannot do it how much more pastors with much bigger responsibilities.

Third.
Security. For a start if such vile remarks can be made on social media you can expect the intent in reality to be much worse. From atheists through fundamentalists to terrorists seeking to do harm (Popes in the past have survived assassination attempts). Today his security is top notch. Even ordinary folks, reporters, church members will not make commercial travel and unsecured access in travel possible. It has been so since the time of Christ.

Granted there is a bit of class/status symbol thing going on with perhaps one or two but most of the ones I know who fly corporate regularly is out of absolute necessity. And if their church members and other Christians in far flung locations felt this was an inhibition they would gladly donate to see their GO's and what have you more frequently.

None of them has more networks or branches than the Catholic pontiff or the Arch bishop of Canterbury yet this men don't have private jets.They d o not even have up to 5% of the administrative responsibilities of this men.Dont even go there

AkpaMgbor:

Are you not one of them who say "leave the messenger and address the message"? Giving to the poor is very good like judas suggested, but why didn't Christ himself rebuke the woman? Just like freeze, he wears expensive watches and flaunts it but gets riled up when a preacher wears something good? Christ later said in that passage that there will never be a shortage of poor people, meaning you can give to the body of Christ and still give to the needy around you..

Please read the scripture further. What was Judas intention for saying that? was it not for him to steal?

For goodness sake, Jesus was not talking against giving to the poor.

AkpaMgbor:

I'm using a mobile phone so I won't be able to delve deep into this with citations but Colossians 2:16 has this to say;

Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

This was Paul talking to the gentile converts in colossus and that was because the Jewish converts still practiced some of their traditions like circumscision and Passover feast..heck even Paul was attending and observing the Passover feasts in 1st Corinthians 5:7... he even told the non Jewish converts to observe it....

The NT scriptures is replete with quotations admonishing Christians not to live under the jewish laws.In fact the first church council was convened because of this very reason.There is no where in the bible Christians tithed or were asked to pay tithes.

Tithing and the entire mosaic laws have been done away with

A nation with total absolute deviation from reality; Nigerians want their spiritual leaders to pray for them to get rich but want the same spiritual leaders to be in total penury and poverty. What an evil world we are.

Are you a pharisee or saducee? if yes, then he was talking to you, if not, then he wasn't talking to Christians.

AkpaMgbor:

Matthew 23:23
New International Version
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Now tell me in simple words what Christ meant by " you should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former"..,

xest:

Go and sit down oga. From your post and Bible references you lack adept knowledge of Christ Jesus.
The woman in question put her offering and that was her last penny. (freewill offering)
Now christ was looking at d heart not what is left. He said from the bottom of her heart she gave all that she had....... That penny is equivalent to 2 naira now.
So christ was moved by his faith, heart and willingness to give even the little she had.

About buying a private jet for ur pastor.
I see many of u r beclouded by there brainwashing. Instead of u to tlk abt helping the poor with such money, u buy a jet for a pastor to use and fly for pleasure and tourism.
U mentioned apostle Paul saying something about collecting money, that money oga is for those who has nothing amongst the brethren, the widows, orphans and ministry upkeep.

This was the same argument by Judas. The bible records in John 12 verse 6 that he said it not because he cared about the poor, but BECAUSE HE WAS A THIEF, STEALING FROM THE MONEY BAG WHICH HE KEPT ON BEHALF OF JESUS AND THE OTHER DISCIPLES.

We all know the motivation behind the bolded statement many of you make. many of you have never given a poor person more than a folded, filthy N10 note. Have you yourself paid anyone's school fees or JAMB form in your life?

richeeyo:
Bros am not a church boy but i know the Bible like the back of my hands And the Bible does not preach exploitation. How many Muslim clerics do you see wearing Gucci around And most of them are super rich They cook for the hungry And they don't charge consultation fees like an herbalist like our pastors The church is fraud this day's

Your own church is fraud not mine.

I read all these arguments and can see points both ways but can someone explain to me the biblical explanation behind Churches building schools and charging exuberant fees?

[quote author=AkpaMgbor post=63242753]
Bullshit! So I can give the church money or materials worth a full month salary willingly but I can't give the church ten percent of my monthly salary willingly ? Does that sound logical to you?[/quote


The bulshit man, we are talking about what God want, not what you feel like doing.

Say no to self rightouseness.

meaning prayer is not trade by barter? no one is saying people shouldn't give, they are saying tithing is a scam in a Christian settings.

ebenholer:
A nation with total absolute deviation from reality; Nigerians want their spiritual leaders to pray for them to get rich but want the same spiritual leaders to be in total penury and poverty. What an evil world we are.

ebenholer:

A Nigeria with total absolute deviation from reality; Nigerians want their spiritual leaders to pray for them to get rich want the same spiritual leaders to be in total penury and poverty. What an evil world we are.

It is you guys that live in an alternate universe, your spiritual leaders have the powers (by prayers) to make people rich, but need's to beg and cajole people to give him money to lift him out of penury and poverty. Now does that make sense. Why can't he use his power of prayers to become rich and use it to bless his poor congregation?

A tithe or offering giving to the church should not be to enrich the pastor or Priest in that church,...When a pastor prays for you and God answered your prayers, if you decide to give the Pastor a Jet as a gift out of happiness,..that is a different thing altogether as it is now left for the pastor to know wether to keep the Jet or sell it to promote the spread of Christ gospel through Charity works,..arms giving etc
Where it becomes wrong is if a Pastor enriches himself through the Tithes and offerings the congregation brings for the smooth running of the church and for Evengelical purposes

PointZerom:
Your own church is fraud not mine.

Our churches face it bro

Acidosis:
1. Apostle Paul requested for money

(1 Corinthians 16:2, NIV)

Apostle Paul particularly instructed the people to set aside a sum of money that is proportionate to their income. This was a convenient way of collecting the money, that has now become a trend among Christians every Sunday. Is Paul a fat-fed and corrupt Apostle?

2. Jesus watched as the "Sheeple" widow dropped money for corrupt religious leaders but He did not free the "Sheeple"

- Mark 12:41-


At the time Jesus observed the widow's offering, the treasury was managed by corrupt religious leaders, but Jesus did not free the sheeple widow. Nowhere was it mentioned that Jesus instructed her not to give her last penny! Instead Christ was interested in blessing her seed. Ask yourself, would Jesus partake in the #freethesheeple movement if He and the Apostles were around today?

3. If your Pastor sow spiritual things to you, it is right and appropriate to give him those material things you can afford, and Yes, that includes a Jet!

- 1 Corinthians 9:9-14

una plan this December na to just milk people of their hard earn money.chaiii Bible Don suffer.

DBestDoc:


The money paul collected, was it for himself?
No
Was it to be kept in a bank account as a church fund?
No
Paul gathered those offerings so he could send them to the brothers in need . That is what the early church, the real christians were known for. They shared all they had with those that didnt have . No one collected from the rest in the name of being a pastor or prophect.

Even Paul you quoted never took anything for himself. He said he worked with his own hands, that God forbid that he becomes a burden to anyone. Even though he had the right to tax them, he never did.

Try and study the bible very well, and when you do, desist from picking a single verse rather, read the preceding and subsequent verses to get the full message.

Tithing is very unchristian,whether you accept the glaring truth or not. But offerings are recorded everywhere in the bible. Jesus gave and received for His ministry, the early church also gave and received. But giving has to be done cheerfully like the bible commanded that is why the widow gave. Willingly and Jesus hailed her for that.

You can give jets to your pastor, nobody stops you from doing that, but saying you're giving it to God is where the problem lies. God is nobody's mate. Tithe to your pastor and his ministry but don't drag God into it 'cause clearly from the scriptures, the only way you give to God is by giving to the needy, clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and our services to God. Don't add or subtract from the scriptures.

You just wrote eveything I wanted to write... Daddy Freeze was not against given or donation .. the guy was talking about tithes ..

The collection was a gift from the Gentile churches to the Jerusalem believers. Romans 15:26 states that “Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution[b] for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem[/b],

my thinking here> " Acts 20:4 there is a list of names traveling with Paul, all likely representatives of Paul’s churches Paul was careful to separate his own ministry from the Collection for the Saints. Because some Jews had plotted against him ..so that they may not say he stole the money ...

to begin with ...Paul did acknowledging his right to receive compensation from the Corinthians and then started to battle with that and wanted his audience to catch his work ethic and sacrifice in ministering the word of God

"You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. In all these things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive’ (Acts 20:34–35).

But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. . What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. (1 Cor. 9:12–18)

Paul conscientiously chose to preach for free so that he would not “put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.” Instead of clinging to the principle “the laborer deserves to be paid,”

For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God (1 Thess. 2:9).

[b]For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you (2 Thess. 3:7–.

Even Jesus said to[b] enter kingdom of God[/b] you have to feed the needy,, cloth them , help strangers. Mat 25 .. I would rather do what Jesus said than worry about anyone's tithe and Jesus did not even recognise tithes as money but as seed and herbs even though they had money.

I guess we all interpret the bible differently

OkCornel:


Please read the scripture further. What was Judas intention for saying that? was it not for him to steal?

For goodness sake, Jesus was not talking against giving to the poor.

Oga leave the messenger and face the message! Was judas wrong in telling the woman to use the money from the oil and help the poor?
You don't support judas because you know he steals? But you support freeze even though you know he flaunts his expensive watches and cars in the face of the poor? How many people has freeze touched their lives before? Trust me he will boast about it if he does so...the point is that even though jesus knew that the woman could have used the money to help the poor, he still accepted it to be poured on his feet..if Jesus did such today you will accuse him of using such expensive oil to waste on his feet while people are hungry..

ArcSEMPECJ:
A tithe or offering giving to the church should not be to enrich the pastor or Priest in that church,...When a pastor prays for you and God answered your prayers, if you decide to give the Pastor a Jet as a gift out of happiness,..that is a different thing altogether as it is now left for the pastor to know wether to keep the Jet or sell it to promote the spread of Christ gospel through Charity works,..arms giving etc
Where it becomes wrong is if a Pastor enriches himself through the Tithes and offerings the congregation brings for the smooth running of the church and for Evengelical purposes

which of the gods answer the prayers. Mr man what's your point

Acidosis:


Did you pastor threatened you with curses? You should change your Church if your pastor lay curses on you



So why is Freeze telling the sheeples what to do with their money?



Some of the messages I got from my pastor while in uni is the reason I fell in love with entrepreneurship.

If his message gets me rich eventually, you mean you will give me a dirty slap if I decide to reward his labour with a private jet?
I will get a dirty slap from a nonentity for spending my money when and how I want it spent?

You're not wise.

I still don't get how people think and reason...how can a pastor message get you rich?

plz explain...

until you explain that, I will not take u serious.

Acidosis:


I'm pained because most of you don't know a thing about the bible.


Someone woke from nowhere, downloaded a Bible App from PlayStore and began to confuse y'all.


Engage me with the above points or shut ya mouth!

you too shut up there.see them potential pastors.

somehow:
Are you a pharisee or saducee? if yes, then he was talking to you, if not, then he wasn't talking to Christians.

Weak attempt at humor and diversionary tactics..na only Pharisees and saducees been dey give a tenth of their cummins?

UNDERSTANDING BIBLICAL TITHING IN DETAIL
First thing I will say is that Tithing is not compulsory for the New Testament believers. The Bible states that the bird in the sky do not sow or reap or gather into barns; yet your father in heaven SUSTAINS (or FEEDS) them. So if all you seek is sustenance; grace in Christ will provide that for you even if you do not Tithe. But to operate in high Kingdom Finance is a whole different matter and you cannot operate at that level without electing to Tithe and give offerings. This will become clear as you read Leke’s brilliant submission.

There are two regimes of tithe in the Bible. The first regime is the ABRAHAMIC REGIME. The second regime is the REGIME OF THE LAW. That’s short-code for the Law of Moses. It’s also known as regime of the Ten Commandments – the body of legislation enacted to regulate the nascent nation of Israel.

It wasn’t Moses who introduced tithe into human history. It was actually Abraham. Before Abraham, there was no mention of tithe in scriptures. (Tithe simply means a tenth). Here’s how we came across tithe in scriptures:

The story goes that Lot, Abraham’s nephew, became collateral damage in the power play between the king of Elam and king of Sodom. Sodom, a vassal of Elam had suddenly declared independence and so Elam went to war against Sodom. Lot was living in Sodom. With his allies, the king of Elam conquered Sodom and took prisoners of war. That was how Lot became a prisoner of war. Well, family is family. Abraham took his private army, along with his allies went after the king of Elam and his three allies, and defeated them. He rescued Lot and his family.

We’re told as he returned from the battle, he was met by a king named Melchizedek who also doubled as a priest of the Most High God. He brought communion. It was Melchizedek who gave us insight into how Abraham defeated the Gang of Four: “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator and Possessor of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High who has given your enemies into your hand.” (Genesis 14:19-20) It was a not so subtle reminder God did the conquest for Abraham, not Abraham’s strength or brilliance. The conquest was a work of grace. Whereupon Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the treasure from that battle and that was the first tithe in the Bible.

Nobody compelled Abraham to tithe. It was voluntary. For this reason, we shall call Abrahamic tithing elective tithing. He made money and elected to give a tenth of it to a priest of God. The subtext from the invocation of Melchizedek is that Abraham tithed in acknowledgement of the fact that all that he had, all that he owned, all that he had ever accomplished came by the hand of the Possessor of the heaven and the earth. To that extent, Abram (as he was then known) tithed as an act of worship.

My dear things are not normal in Nigeria, with almost 100 million people living on less than a $1, and 60.9% of Nigerians were living in "absolute poverty"
Shouldn't the rise of the wealth of the black church mean less hunger for blacks? Same trend in America, $269.2 million dollars is being pumped into the Black Church economy EVERY SUNDAY, yet just like BLACK Africans (not White South Africans), they wait for the government with their neighborhoods falling apart.
You get the picture right. We give that much money to “God” every single year and God never gives it back 10 fold, because if he did then there would be no poor Black people, so something is wrong with this assumption!
You claim to have a personal conviction?? LOL I guess Chinese citizens must be giving their God 10% coz God seems to be lifting them out of poverty fast without churches on every street. Someday you would wake the Bleep up!

honniemail:
Tithing works for me and there is nothing anyone would say to change me...i had a personal convinction nd i am tithing till i die by God's grace.

I was once an unbeliever who criticise this...i would say "look at these pple moving around in their legedese benz..funding their GO's to get jets

But now i know better by HIS grace..

I wont say freeze is wrong...but he doesnt have an indepth understanding of giving

He is freeing d "sheepie" on tithing, has he heard of sacrificial given

He shouldnt even bother to know cos he will develop heart attack when he gets to know wat we are parting with to give as sacrifice not to man but to God who has put it in our hands

Tithes and offerings are used to pay salaries of worker i.epastors, acountants..clearners etc

Their are over 18000 working staffs in my church are they not citizens of this country
Does frezze and his followers know how many family that is being fed,housed nd educated with this salary they earn frm f church

Is it not the tithe that is being use to pay them??
Pls i want to know how the pastor is embezzling d moni cos me i am not understanding

Even d private jets is not bought in d pastors name its in d church name nd i know of times delegates av gine on trips with this jet thats on several occassion withiout d GO's

I pay my tithe
I give to my parents
I give to d needy around me
And i touch lives in my little capacity

And i will continue to do so till Jesus come

honniemail:
Tithing works for me and there is nothing anyone would say to change me...i had a personal convinction nd i am tithing till i die by God's grace.

I was once an unbeliever who criticise this...i would say "look at these pple moving around in their legedese benz..funding their GO's to get jets

But now i know better by HIS grace..

I wont say freeze is wrong...but he doesnt have an indepth understanding of giving

He is freeing d "sheepie" on tithing, has he heard of sacrificial given

He shouldnt even bother to know cos he will develop heart attack when he gets to know wat we are parting with to give as sacrifice not to man but to God who has put it in our hands

Tithes and offerings are used to pay salaries of worker i.epastors, acountants..clearners etc

Their are over 18000 working staffs in my church are they not citizens of this country
Does frezze and his followers know how many family that is being fed,housed nd educated with this salary they earn frm f church

Is it not the tithe that is being use to pay them??
Pls i want to know how the pastor is embezzling d moni cos me i am not understanding

Even d private jets is not bought in d pastors name its in d church name nd i know of times delegates av gine on trips with this jet thats on several occassion withiout d GO's

I pay my tithe
I give to my parents
I give to d needy around me
And i touch lives in my little capacity

And i will continue to do so till Jesus come

if you want to do so till devil and Lucifer comes is non of our business.

"QUOTING A TEXT OUT OF CONTEXT, GIVES RISE TO A PRETEXT." - RAVI ZACHARIAS

May I advise the OP to not just look at a text, outside of its context. If you read the whole chapter, you will get a more clearer picture of what its saying.

Let me take your point number 3.
I will paraphrase the text; Paul says a preacher like a labourer is worthy of his wages (1 Corinthians 9:9-14) which you quoted, but he, Paul, forsakes all those rights so as not to hinder the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:15-26).

Paul knew what was truly important, not material blessings even though it was his right but the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I dare to say, not one of your flamboyant pastors will forsake material blessings, if that was the condition for the salvation of souls because they treat Jesus as a means to an end, not an end in himself. Have a good day.