jean1128:


well it is obvious that u have no interest answering the question I asked,so I wish u simply vamoose and not digress the topic

jean1128:


well it is obvious that u have no interest answering the question I asked,so I wish u simply vamoose and not digress the topic

jean1128:


let me start by applauding you for at least airing your opinion ,but then just because that is what u think doesn't make it right so I would point out the problems I have with your explanation,if u disagree with my points,feel free to rebut it OBJECTIVELY.

First of all I read through ur post carefully and I observed that 99% of what u said is merely conjecture ,u don't have any biblical evidence to ur point if u do kindly share it.

Then I would like to call ur attention to what we are talking about here,bro we are talking about the holocaust,people were slaughtered like chicken through the most painful forms of death; the pogrom and the rest of them,now u claim that "God" is omnipotent that means he can do EVERYTHING and he is equally omniscient that means he knows EVERYTHING now my questions are

Let us assume like u said that "God's" plan was to prove to man that only wilful obedience to his will can guarantee peace and happiness

1) WAS ALLOWING THE HOLOCAUST THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOMPLISHING HIS PLAN?

2)if the answer to no1 is no which of course is the right answer considering that "God" is supposedly omnipotent,then the second question is WAS ALLOWING THE HOLOCAUST OCCUR THE BEST WAY TO ACCOMPLISH HIS PLAN ?

3) If the answer to no2 is no then the third question is
WHY DIDN'T HE USE A BETTER METHOD
but if the answer to no2 is yes then the third question is
WHY WASN'T HIS PLAN ACCOMPLISHED ?

you can agree with me that since 1945 after the Holocaust occurred till now the world has witnessed a large number of people adopting other means to solving their problems without involving "God" and religion and it has proved very successful,at least the happiest countries in the world are majorly irreligious  and so their has been a remarkable increase in the number of irreligious people,and also other similar events have continued to occur such as the 9/11 attacks in the U.S.A the 1972 Munich attack and the rest of them,it hasn't led anyone to seeing "God" as the solution to peace and happiness rather  it has raised more questions to his existence,and if u say that "God" allowed the holocaust to occur to make us acknowledge him as the source of peace and happiness,what do u have to say about terrorist attacks carried out on the churches itself and on christians,is that also a way for him to execute his plans?.

Finally if "God" allowed the holocaust to occur to make humans realize that obeying him is the source to peace and happiness why is it that his plan failed,because what am seeing in the world is an unpreccedented revolution towards religion wildly aided by the social media  and when the plan ur "God" made failed it tells at least one of these three things
1) "God" is not omnipotent which explains why the plan failed
2) "God" is not omniscient which explains why he couldn't make a plan that didn't fail
3)"God" is neither omnipotent nor omniscient, so why bring him into the picture at the first place

ScienceWatch:
Why are you too blind to see that I am on topic? Is your bias too strong?

Why dont you take the time to answer world religions on the question of the Holocaust ? Tell us what Atheists/agnostics think why God allowed the Holocaust?

I emphasize, IT IS 2018 THEREFORE TRUE CHRISTIANS MUST NEVER ANSWER ATHEISTS/AGNOSTICS QUESTIONS ABOUT GOD. Christians have the power.
Use your power and interrogate Atheists on the very same fraudulent topics they post to mock God and for comic sexual relief.

ScienceWatch:
Excellent ! Awesome ! Wow, your moniker should have been Doctorwise.

Unfortunately, Atheists, agnostics, etc will never understand the profound truths you wrote here DoctorAlien. Never, never !!

True Christians are instructed by the bible to, NEVER THROW THEIR PEARLS OF TRUTH TO THE ATHEISTIC/AGNOSTIC SWINE. FOR THEY WILL REND IT AND THEN TURN ON YOU.

ScienceWatch:
Read this incredible topic : The Evangelical Movement Is Filled With Evil And Demonic Lies And Propaganda by Dnaz 9:05am

If Jesuits are behind the rise of Hitler and the alleged Holocaust of 6 million Jews, why then would the Nazis propagate Jesuit conspiracy theories themselves? Hubert Hermann’s The Jesuit: The Obscurantist without a Homeland Propaganda Pamphlet (1933) inspired the Nazis to declare the Catholic order of the Jesuits “public vermin” (Volksschädlingen) – the same term it used to describe the Freemasons. Its members were persecuted, interned, and sometimes murdered. This pamphlet warned against the Jesuits’ “dark power” and “mysterious intentions.” Hitler murdered Jesuits on account of Jesuit membership.

While persecutions of Jews did happen by mobs throughout the middle ages, the other fact that is rarely revealed was that throughout that same history, the Catholics Papal bull Sicut Judaeis issued during the Middle Ages was the cornerstone that proclaimed Jews are not to be harmed and that Catholics are forbidden on pain of excommunication to force convert Jews or confiscate their property. This was clearly established by Pope Callixtus II in the original bull:

“[The Jews] ought to suffer no prejudice. We, out of the meekness of Christian piety, and in keeping in the footprints or Our predecessors of happy memory, the Roman Pontiffs Calixtus, Eugene, Alexander, Clement, admit their petition, and We grant them the buckler of Our protection.”

It was the Popes who foresaw the potential for pogroms while 18 successive Popes re-affirmed Sicut Judaeis.

Dnaz says, "I challenge anyone to find anywhere any official document where the Catholic Church endorsed Nazism. Catholic opposition to Judaism has always been ideological, never racial."

Yet despite all this, perhaps the most attacked in history is against Pope Pius XII. The more we discover from the annals of history, the more we find archives like what was revealed by Historian Mark Riebling who wrote of Pope Pius XII’s secret to support attempted overthrows of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler.

DoctorAlien:


WORD, BROTHER. WORD.

These are precious truths that came to us at such awful costs. Far more precious than all the riches in the world. These truths are not to be cast out to the swine of skepticism as they can never recognize its value.

But for sake of those who are genuinely searching for answers, I have written these things. May God have mercy on all of us.

jean1128:


look bro,like I said before the essence of this thread is not to start an argument on who is superior between atheists and christians. Atheists do not believe in God,but christians do and am asking a simple question IF "GOD" IS ALL LOVING,ALL POWERFUL, AND ALL KNOWING like christians and theists claim then why do u think he allowed the holocaust to occur.
However ever since u entered this thread u have made no attempt to address the question,rather u have been throwing jabs on non christians, this is not the essence of this thread,there are various threads which suit ur argument please go there and post ur stuff,but if u want to say something here then let it be in line with the topic,no one is forcing u to comment after all.Besides the post DoctorAlien made have been rebutted by me why don't u make an attempt to disprove the reasons I gave

DoctorAlien:
You can call it conjecture. It mean it's not the truth. You're not a student of prophecy, and so I understand your ignorance of these things. However, there are direct pieces of evidence in the Scriptures supporting the points I made.

You're talking about the Holocaust, which is sin, the transgression of God's law. Other examples of sin include adultery, stealing, covetousness, etc. They are numerous. Why haven't you called my attention to the widespread sexual immorality, dishonesty and covetousness to name but a few, in the world today?

If there is a better way God could have accomplished His plan of letting creation know that sin can never bring peace and happiness to creation, other than letting sin reign for while(by allowing the hawker of sin, Satan, continue for a while), then state it.

The answer to no.1 is YES! What could God have done?

God's plan has certainly been accomplished! When Satan murdered the Commander-in-chief of the hosts of Heaven, the sinless Son of God, their beloved Lord, the unfallen angels and the unfallen world's fully discerned the character of Satan, "that he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning." John 8:44
God's plan has been accomplished, as it has become clear to me and Christians like me from Adam until now that the transgression of God's Law can only bring pain and misery, as it is in the world today, and that only the reign of God's Law can guarantee peace and happiness. However, you don't expect the whole of creation to admit this fact. Satan, his angels and his followers on earth will never admit that fact. And to them belongs the destruction of hell.
"So what u re saying is that the u and other christians u re referring to needed " God" to allow the holocaust to occur to prove to u that the transgression of his law would bring drastic circumstances,can u just listen to urself

God's children have ever been persecuted and killed by the children of darkness, from righteous Abel until now. Indeed the children of darkness, in persecuting innocent children of God, have continued to demonstrate to the universe what it looks like to enthrone lawlessness. Terrorist attacks on Christians is a part of such persecution, and such attacks serve to even make the evil of sin clearer to Christians. We look forward to the Kingdom where sin does not exist. As I suffer the injustice of persecution from the children of darkness, I ruminate on sin and its disastrous effects. But I'm also consoled by the fact that even if God leads me through a violent death, He will still resurrect me at last to immortal life.
"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him." Job 13:15.
What am asking is this IS GOD ALLOWING CHRISTIANS TO BE KILLED AND CHURCHES BOMBED ALSO PART OF HIS PLAN TO PROVE THAT WITHOUT HIM WE WOULDN'T HAVE PEACE AND HAPPINESS ?



Even if God's plan convinced only me and the children of God like me from Adam until now, it was a huge success. Surely the whole of creation wasn't going to admit that fact. At least not Satan and his cohorts. But that's fine.
I bet u can't make this statement to a worldwide audience including those who lost their dear ones to the holocaust

I would not go further on the events of the last days, as you are not a student of prophecy. But know that the Bible foretold a period of well-nigh universal rebellion against God on earth just before Christ returns. The nature of this rebellion is beyond the scope of our discussion
Well said because am not a student of intuition but reason .

hakeem4:
First of all there are some people who claimed that the holocaust never happened. But let me assume he wanted all Jews to go back to their land

Maybe we can ask kingebukasblog

DoctorAlien:


Is that all you have to say?

jean1128:
There is no point in what you just said

I have limited knowledge unlike ur "omniscient God" but nonetheless let me suggest a plan like u requested. how about "God" writing in the sky something like "I AM YOUR CREATOR JEHOVA,RETURN TO ME O MAN AND I WILL GIVE YOU PEACE AND HAPPINESS, O CONTINUE WALLOWING IN YOUR SIN AND LIVE IN MISERY. Don't you think that if " God" does something like that in our age that it will sure defeat every argument of atheism and lay it to rest,and of course it will convert a lot of people to christianity,and the best part of it is that there won't even be any bloodshed or anyone that will get hurt unlike the "Holocaust plan",and don't tell me that it is too ridiculous or demeaning for " God" to do,remember he story of the handwriting on the wall and Elijah and the prophets of Baal,they are no different.

jean1128:


bro let's live copy and paste for now and finish with the reason u gave me

mployer:


That is the explanation bro. He used a lot of similar methods in the Bible.

There wouldn't be a location called Israel today if not for Holocaust. It is His way of bringing good out of evil.

Its is also a message to you. What ever evil you are suffering today, God will bring marvelous good out of it, if you stick to him.

DoctorAlien:
LOL. I did not expect you to see any point in it.


I will respond with quotes from your fellow atheists. The late Australian philosopher John Smart reveals the lengths that he would go to in order to explain away a miracle if he witnessed one:

“someone who has naturalistic preconceptions will always in fact find some naturalistic explanation more plausible than a supernatural one… Suppose that I woke up in the night and saw the stars arranged in shapes that spelt out the Apostle’s Creed. I would know that astronomically it is impossible that stars should have changed their positions.

I don’t know what I would think. Perhaps I would think that I was dreaming or that I had gone mad. What if everyone else seemed to me to be telling me that the same thing had happened? Then I might not only think that I had gone mad – I would probably go mad”
http://reasonsforjesus.com/90-atheist-quotes-every-christian-atheist-need-to-read/

He would think all these things but would never think that God exists who could have done that miracle!

Here's what Giles Fraser said:

"The Guardian cartoonist Martin Rowson recently told me that he would be an atheist even if God walked into the restaurant. Similarly for Nietzsche, it's not a question of evidence or the lack of it."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/passionate-atheism-me-christianity-nietzsche

Enough said.

ScienceWatch:
Let Atheists provide answers to their own questions on the Holocaust. Atheists killed the JEWS.

World religions must stop answering Atheists/agnostics etc questions as if they are on trial. 2018 has arrived and now Atheists are on trial. They will answer, and world religions will question them.

What have Atheists got to offer an evil world. What solutions do they bring to the table?
Atheists/agnostics/God haters etc has to date provided very destructive solution such as, child pornography, killing of unborn babies, child prostitution, child trafficking, child marriage, child molestation. Men marrying men could be their focus for 2018.

3nim:


The double standards are strong. Very strong. Atheists can only be evil. Nothing good ever comes out of their lives.

I'm sure if we caught a well-known pastor enjoying child porn now you'd give a very powerful explanation.

3nim:


The double standards are strong. Very strong. Atheists can only be evil. Nothing good ever comes out of their lives.

I'm sure if we caught a well-known pastor enjoying child porn now you'd give a very powerful explanation.

3nim:


The double standards are strong. Very strong. Atheists can only be evil. Nothing good ever comes out of their lives.

I'm sure if we caught a well-known pastor enjoying child porn now you'd give a very powerful explanation.

ScienceWatch:
Let me categorically state that the esteemed Kingebukasblog will never be seen on a topic that only strokes the arrogant egos of Atheists. He has far too many important things to deal with.

Why did Atheists fail so miserably when Kingebukasblog offered them a chance to prove that their NO-god exits?

jean1128:
So what u re saying is that the u and other christians u re referring to needed " God" to allow the holocaust to occur to prove to u that the transgression of his law would bring drastic circumstances,can u just listen to urself

What am asking is this IS GOD ALLOWING CHRISTIANS TO BE KILLED AND CHURCHES BOMBED ALSO PART OF HIS PLAN TO PROVE THAT WITHOUT HIM WE WOULDN'T HAVE PEACE AND HAPPINESS ?

I bet u can't make this statement to a worldwide audience including those who lost their dear ones to the holocaust

jean1128:


U asked me for another way for "God" to execute his plan besides the holocaust, and I gave you one,instead of u to either acknowledge it as a better plan or dismiss it with reason,u went and started quoting what some "atheists" said,I just don't understand when christians would learn how to argue.
What I need from u is to admit that the plan I presented is better than allowing millions of people to die or dismiss it with reasons u think the "holocaust plan" is better

hakeem4:
okay sir mr sciencewatch why did Yahweh not stop adolf hitler from killing the Jews. I believe he was probably looking after other planets

ScienceWatch:
Ok Hakeem4, you go first. Answer this as best you can. Will an atheist/agnostic punish a fornicating/masturbating goat?

Also tell Christians, Why did the Atheist chicken cross the road?

3nim:
Plus, allowing the Holocaust happen only made him more mysterious. And you know, the more mysterious you are, the more followers you get- It's a way of letting your creations KNOW that you created them and require their never-ending praise. It's the best way. Surely Better than telling them yourself.

ScienceWatch:
Ok Hakeem4, you go first. Answer this as best you can. Will an atheist/agnostic punish a fornicating/masturbating goat?

Also tell Christians, Why did the Atheist chicken cross the road?

3nim:


Gosh, you're an impossible guy lolll. Now chickens are no longer Christians? That must be why they've been dying so much lately
God wants them back on his side.