budaatum:

Its not about "seeing gods", please read what was written below!

If there is evidence for gods like there is evidence for a pit in the ground, the person who refuses to acknowledge their existence will just fall into the pit!

You said it's not about seeing gods, meaning you are not asking to see before you believe
Yet you said the bolded. Hmmm.

Pls tell satan that God doesn't take instructions from his creatures. Men have been on this since satan took some of them as hosts, he has been ignored even by Angels, it wont be different with you guys. Hahahahaha.

budaatum:

Whether gods exist or not is not a thing I hold up to standards by which statements of "I believe" or, "I do not believe" apply. I have doneway too much research into the topic for that.

If I do not have money in my pocket, for instance, and know for certain that I do not have money in my pocket (because my hands are in my pocket and I don't feel money there), I would not say, "I believe that I have no money in my pocket", since it would be more accurate to say "I have no money in my pocket.

Now, just so we are clear, If I do have money in my pocket, for instance, and know for certain that I do have money in my pocket (because my hands are in my pocket and I do feel money there), I would not say, "I believe that I have money in my pocket", since it would be more accurate to say "I have money in my pocket".

Where gods are concerned, I have done the equivalent of putting my hands in my pocket and so do not have to 'believe' or 'not believe' since I 'know'.


Remember I told you about me joining in when my people worship Ogun and Owala and Obatala etc, and when I said I went to Church? And I said I went to learn about religions and gods? Well, let me now add that I've been to Mosques and Hindu and Buddhist Temples plus many other godlike worship places to do the same. But I don't just go to worship places to understand their gods just by watching them, I read their books too and worship with them and join in their studies and do a lot of other research about gods kind of like a surgeon who reads history, I too study history of the gods, psychology of gods, sociology of gods, archaeology of gods, and of religions as practised by adherents, plus Swedenborg and numerous others like him.

All that research has proved emphatically to me that gods are human creations, figments of their imaginations. That they do not really exist as entities outside the minds of those who believe in them, and that all civilisation from the beginning of time have created their gods in their own images but really don't know if their gods really exist.

If they knew their gods existed, they too would not believe their gods exist, they will know that their gods exist and would say so.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh you went into their midsts, you studied about them, on the pages of paper and decided they didn't exist. I see.

I don't know much about the gods of your land, but did you try to see their potency by daring to do what the people said shouldn't be done?
You know, it's not enough to join them in dancing their masquerades, eating sacrificed to idols then go away saying, there's nothing there.
Pls me what and what you did to dare the gods of your land that you went away unhurt.

Who will i call who will know if you lied ooo. Sir Muttleylaff is a Christian, Ishilove is a Christian. Butterfly1on is a Christian. PaganNaija, Babalawos, pls come o, this guy says una juju nothing dey inside.

Come ask him questions of what he did to prove that there are no gods in Yorubaland.

Me i see thunderbold, Magun, and i know that no human can cause that.

hopefulLandlord:

stop lying
I reject all religious gods from head to toe

How many times have you seen me type "all religious gods are imaginary, gods like Yahweh, Vishnu, Allah, Olodumare, Chuckwu, Amadioha etc"? I'm sure you've seen that many times in the past but you either pretended not to have seen them or you pretend to only have seen your flavour of imaginary friend

to prove this, copy those gods as I've posted it, paste it on the search bar and you'll see my name everywhere

Enjoy your rebellion, you'd the fruits. No time for fruitless debates.

hopefulLandlord:


Stop talking like this, you disappoint me

With your first paragraph you're admitting that leprechauns, unicorns, fairies, fire-breathing dragons, mole people, invisible Space Monkeys that float around Adelbaran and mermaids all exist but we just can't see them?

2. Just like your believing Yahweh exists doesn't mean he's there!

3. I don't demand to see any imaginary friend, I know your imaginary friend does not exist! I've always asserted this. if a god exists that created me and wants me to know him I will know him/her/it without any fellow human telling me about him/her/it.

4.Yahweh has deceived you

Okay. Are you happy now? You can now go and leave me alone to my deception. Can you manage that?

You spend too much time talking about my imaginary friend more than i do. Wow. The fear is real.

hopefulLandlord:
A god that supposedly created me and wants to provide an evidence for me that it exists would know how to do that without my confusing it for another phenomenon or entity.

So in your own view, how do you want God to proof Himself to you? I take it as, the evidence must beyond any logical assumption.

it would be totally independent of me as this god must know me far better than myself and with this knowledge knows what would convince me even if I don't know

Since you have power 'to reason' you can still confuse God's evidence with natural occurrences.

Let me give an eyes witness example:

In 1995, God acted miraculously in my hometown Okeagbe Akoko (the hometown of Late Rufus Giwa named after Owo Poly), Akoko North-west LGA, Ondo State. There was a particular highway from my hometown to Oyin Akoko (former Nigeria IG police hometown 'Ehindero'). On that highway, like 2years after construction strange thing starts happening like unusual accident. I could remember the incident of that hardworking popular Igbo guy selling electronics, he died along that road when their car had accident(note there was no collision or bursting of tire the car just caught fire) and burnt to ashes. It was only him that could be recognized in that incident simply because he was sitting beside the door and his head fell of from window, so it was only his head that was buried.

But the most astonished part is, all accident that do happened on that road, always occurred at a particular spot.

I could remember vividly, there were many prophecies by various churches then and all these prophecies pointed to one thing, "there is one stone that has be bewitched in that area, this stone is the one causing the calamity" surprisingly, those prophecies also include a message that pray and God will intervene.
Many revival programs were held by different churches 3,5,7,21days my church then C&S did 7days.

To cut the long story short, the day God will fight for His people, It was like a dream. That faithful day, it seems it will rain heavily. as usual everybody prepared for heavy rain before you know it, it started to rain. Surprisingly, it's not up to 10mins the rain started, a very powerful atomic thunder struck. Nobody in my hometown that doesn't feel the sound, vibration and movement of the thunder. I could remember this statement from my grandma then "Ibun ti dun, baba mi ti daun" (meaning the gun has sounded, my Father has answered). As an elderly woman I'm very sure she understood that the thunder is a MESSENGER, even though she didn't no the excert location.

And the rain people thought will last for an hour just fall like 20-30mins and stopped. In less than 30mins, there was a shocking news all over the village. Guess what, along that road excertlly where the accident usually occurred, a massive rock (I don't know the actual size since no-one has measured it but it's massive), was shattered into pieces as if a dynamite was used to blast it.

Well if Atheists were to give their view that day, they may say maybe unknown person planted a dynamite there but as God always give an indisputable evidence of His work, the path the thunder followed before hitting the rock will be like 1-2km and to everybody surprises, the thunder cleared everything along that path be it stone, grass and tree (just as if a bulldozer working on a virgin land for road construction). The most miraculous part of it was that since that day till I left my hometown a single accident never occurred on that road not to talk of that same spot (I left 2003, even till now I've never heard of any fatal accident on that road).

I know if you're to be in my hometown then, is either you attribute it to natural occurrences and blame people of being too religious or you acknowledge the wonderous works of the creator.

But one thing is certain, God's evidence of His existence that goes beyond logical reasoning is all around us.

DeSepiero:


You can't be sure that what you behold is of Elohim and not Odin. Can you? How if yes?

Like I said earlier the being who is behind what your optical eyes can see has revealed Himself and will still reveal Himself to sincere and genuine seekers...

Believe me, He does not wish you or anyone to remain ignorance. But will respect your wish to remain in it.

superhumanist:



"When a man talks to an imaginary being, it is madness. When many men do it, it is religion."

And when you attempt to describe other people's experience that you haven't had, what's that called?

PRIDEFUL IGNORANCE?

Do you have a wife or a sister? You know what, since I haven't met them, they are merely illusions in your mind. How's the sound of that? creepy huh?

Gggg102:


but it also creates the problem of which God is in charge of the supernatural. which is true. even if the supernatural is true, you still have a problem to face.

Maybe it does, but that's not the problem with atheists. Their position is that nothing supernatural exists. This based on people's vast experience is utterly wrong.

The issue of which God is true is beyond the scope of this thread isn't it?

Emusan:


My question is very simple, if God should provide you with an evidence, isn't there going to be a procedure so that you'll know whether it's God and not Nature?

Then God should appear from the sky for the whole world to witness him, is that so hard for God or is God shy?

tintingz:
Then God should appear from the sky for the whole world to witness him, is that so hard for God or is God shy?

The day He will appear that day is rapture are you ready to follow Him back to heaven?

Emusan:


The day He will appear that day is rapture are you ready to follow Him back to heaven?

Why must it be rapture day? And what's wrong following God to heaven(if there's one)?

awesomeJ:

And when you attempt to describe other people's experience that you haven't had, what's that called?

This is the problem with most Atheists, if you share your experience with them, it's either they term you hallucinating or attached it to nature can do it.

That's why I respect FOLYCAZEY I don't know maybe I spell it correctly.

When I join NL I met him as an Atheist but as an open-minded person he was, he took it upon himself to search for evidence about spirituality and as he came back, he became another person though he didn't believe in the God of any religion but he affirms that spirituality does exist.

tintingz:
Why must it be rapture day?

Because that's the day He promised those who doubted Him to see the reality of His existence.

And what's wrong following God to heaven(if there's one)?

Nothing wrong in fact that's His greatest joy but just that He hates sin, so no sinner will follow Him.

Emusan:


So in your own view, how do you want God to proof Himself to you? I take it as, the evidence must beyond any logical assumption.



Since you have power 'to reason' you can still confuse God's evidence with natural occurrences.

Let me give an eyes witness example:

In 1995, God acted miraculously in my hometown Okeagbe Akoko (the hometown of Late Rufus Giwa named after Owo Poly), Akoko North-west LGA, Ondo State. There was a particular highway from my hometown to Oyin Akoko (former Nigeria IG police hometown 'Ehindero'). On that highway, like 2years after construction strange thing starts happening like unusual accident. I could remember the incident of that hardworking popular Igbo guy selling electronics, he died along that road when their car had accident(note there was no collision or bursting of tire the car just caught fire) and burnt to ashes. It was only him that could be recognized in that incident simply because he was sitting beside the door and his head fell of from window, so it was only his head that was buried.

But the most astonished part is, all accident that do happened on that road, always occurred at a particular spot.

I could remember vividly, there were many prophecies by various churches then and all these prophecies pointed to one thing, "there is one stone that has be bewitched in that area, this stone is the one causing the calamity" surprisingly, those prophecies also include a message that pray and God will intervene.
Many revival programs were held by different churches 3,5,7,21days my church then C&S did 7days.

To cut the long story short, the day God will fight for His people, It was like a dream. That faithful day, it seems it will rain heavily. as usual everybody prepared for heavy rain before you know it, it started to rain. Surprisingly, it's not up to 10mins the rain started, a very powerful atomic thunder struck. Nobody in my hometown that doesn't feel the sound, vibration and movement of the thunder. I could remember this statement from my grandma then "Ibun ti dun, baba mi ti daun" (meaning the gun has sounded, my Father has answered). As an elderly woman I'm very sure she understood that the thunder is a MESSENGER, even though she didn't no the excert location.

And the rain people thought will last for an hour just fall like 20-30mins and stopped. In less than 30mins, there was a shocking news all over the village. Guess what, along that road excertlly where the accident usually occurred, a massive rock (I don't know the actual size since no-one has measured it but it's massive), was shattered into pieces as if a dynamite was used to blast it.

Well if Atheists were to give their view that day, they may say maybe unknown person planted a dynamite there but as God always give an indisputable evidence of His work, the path the thunder followed before hitting the rock will be like 1-2km and to everybody surprises, the thunder cleared everything along that path be it stone, grass and tree (just as if a bulldozer working on a virgin land for road construction). The most miraculous part of it was that since that day till I left my hometown a single accident never occurred on that road not to talk of that same spot (I left 2003, even till now I've never heard of any fatal accident on that road).

I know if you're to be in my hometown then, is either you attribute it to natural occurrences and blame people of being too religious or you acknowledge the wonderous works of the creator.

But one thing is certain, God's evidence of His existence that goes beyond logical reasoning is all around us.

Let them keep basking in ignorance. The funny thing is, when any if them experiences the supernatural adversely, they won't come here to narrate their ordeal.

To objective folks, if you gave just one instance of happenings that are grossly beyond the natural, it'd be enough to convince them that the supernatural exists. But these folks, give them 1 million overwhelming accounts, they with still naysay, and make funny arguments as per how those accounts don't evidence the existence of the supernatural. Yet they will never be able to explain how those happenings can be by natural causes.
Again Challenge them to come experience things that'll prove to them that the supernatural exists, they'll definitely and fearfully decline.

Isn't it obvious that it's not evidence they seek? If God should appear to them in the sky, they will still claim it's not God. They'll say proof that there's life in another galaxy, and what they saw must have been a travelling alien.

What then is the problem I have with these guys? Well basically, if as a doctor, my sick patient is emphatically making claims that I am the one sick, and that he is the one who knows enough as to decide the state of my physical health? it'll be frustrating to stand him.

Emusan:


Because that's the day He promised those who doubted Him to see the reality of His existence.

So what makes you I'm talking about the bible God?

Nothing wrong in fact that's His greatest joy but just that He hates sin, so no sinner will follow Him.

I'm a good kind person, am i still a sinner?

Emusan:


So in your own view, how do you want God to proof Himself to you? I take it as, the evidence must beyond any logical assumption.

No, don't strawman me sir

in my own view, a god that created me, knows everything about me (including things in my subconscious and things I've forgotten) and wants me to know him would know exactly what to do to convince me. even I may not know what would convince me but that entity does know

tintingz:
So what makes you I'm talking about the bible God?

Which God are you expecting proof from before?

I'm a good kind person, am i still a sinner?

And who is the teacher that marks your result "good-kind person"?

awesomeJ:

And when you attempt to describe other people's experience that you haven't had, what's that called?

PRIDEFUL IGNORANCE?

Do you have a wife or a sister? You know what, since I haven't met them, they are merely illusions in your mind. How's the sound of that? creepy huh?

I don't need to experience a madman's life history or thoughts to know that he is mad.

Emusan:


Which God are you expecting proof from before?

Odin, Olorun, Brahma, Zeus, Unkulunkulu etc.

And who is the teacher that marks your result "good-kind person"?

Answer the question I asked, I'm a good kind person, yes I'm very certain I'm a good person everyone around me knows I'm a good person, am I still a sinner?

tintingz:
Odin, Olorun, Brahma, Zeus, Unkulunkulu etc.

And you didn't say gods before but God the Creator!

Answer the question I asked, I'm a good kind person, yes I'm very certain I'm a good person everyone around me knows I'm a good person, am I still a sinner?

I'm a naturally gifted designer I can draw anything and everyone knows this, yes I'm very certain I'm a great designer but does that make me an Architect?

Seun:

Sometimes we use the language of certainty because we are 99.9% sure. It's tedious to insert the word 'probably' into every sentence. If a child asks you whether superman is real, the perfect answer is "probably not", but his existence is so unlikely that it's easier to just say "no".

You mean atheist are certainly sure that GOD existence is so unlikely, which mean atheist have a compelling evidence to disprove GOD evidence. since GOD is used to describe all source of creations both unknown and known,it will also mean atheist have to know a great deal more about the universe than we believer knows now to be sure that no God exists and to be certain of the nonexistence of God which is actually not true....... The word certainty to me is so ambiguous...i think a clever mind should be open to LOGICAL probability. so, the existence of GOD to believer is not a certainty statement but an article of faith which make it more superior to certainty of the strict atheist, what is the logic in what you are certain about but cannot demonstrate......

This is a quote from Albert Eisenstein

''The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly''.

Emusan:


And you didn't say gods before but God the Creator!

The fallacy in your response is that you're quick to assume that I was talking about the bible God.

Gods are Gods, each Gods should appear in the sky to prove they are real.

I'm a naturally gifted designer I can draw anything and everyone knows this, yes I'm very certain I'm a great designer but does that make me an Architect?

How does this relate to what I asked?

A gift is naturally endowed, architecture is limited to a field.

Please answer the question and stop going strawman.

superhumanist:



I don't need to experience a madman's life history or thoughts to know that he is mad.

But you'd have to eat my food before you can judge its taste wouldn't you. It would be silly of you to just conclude that my foot I'd tasteless without having tasted it wouldn't it?

awesomeJ:

But you'd have to eat my food before you can judge its taste wouldn't you. It would be silly of you to just conclude that my foot I'd tasteless without having tasted it wouldn't it?

Wrong analogy.

I'm saying that you are a bit mad for talking to a god you can't see, hear, smell or touch.

An invisible, unprovable God.


I know that you are lying the same way my 4 year old is lying when he says santa Claus is his friend.

Bro. You have no relationship with God. You can't tell me what he looks like or sounds like because you will easily be exposed like a charlatan

awesomeJ:

But you'd have to eat my food before you can judge its taste wouldn't you. It would be silly of you to just conclude that my foot I'd tasteless without having tasted it wouldn't it?

Another way to put it-

If there is no salt or Maggi or any seasoning in your cooking, I know it is tasteless.


Just as I know that you are 'relationshipless" with God since there is no seasoning (communication, no picture of god, no voice etc).

tintingz:
The fallacy in your response is that you're quick to assume that I was talking about the bible God.

Gods are Gods, each Gods should appear in the sky to prove they are real.

.

Just as someone could say to Dangote, "let him show us a truck load of cash to prove that he's Africa's richest"
You think any amount of such rants by any fellow should make Dangote bulge?

How much less God Almighty. He's not out to impress you or convince you that He exists, if that was what He wanted, does common sense not make it obvious that he would have coded us to compulsorily accept him? The power of choice is one of the greatest He has given to man, and He very much respects it.

Finally, even if he chose to appear, let's even say that could happen, the atheists that I know you guys to be would still say it's not enough proof, you'd probably say it's an alien from another galaxy, and then spread news about an impending human colonization by aliens.

How can someone tell you that one moment he was bedfast, and just waiting to die of cancer, having been given up on by the finest doctors, and then he prayed in faith, and instantly his body was made whole.

The only thing you could do is say maybe it didn't happen, but since it really did happen, it defies common sense for you to still seek any other proof of the supernatural. That experience to an objective mind, is more proof than any sky-appearing stunt you guys seek.

And the only reason you keep asking for God to show himself I. the sky, is not so you can believe-naah..
It's cos, just as with Dangote, you know He won't bulge just cos of some silly rantings.

Except any of you explains how these supernatural encounters we described could have ordinarily happenings, then it's obvious we've given you proofs of the supernatural that you can't deny.

superhumanist:



Wrong analogy.

I'm saying that you are a bit mad for talking to a god you can't see, hear, smell or touch.

An invisible, unprovable God.


I know that you are lying the same way my 4 year old is lying when he says santa Claus is his friend.

Bro. You have no relationship with God. You can't tell me what he looks like or sounds like because you will easily be exposed like a charlatan

Dude, are you human? if yes, did you trade your brain for a cow's?
if not for foolishness and mental derailment. on your part. how could you possibly think that you could tell someone you know nothing about how real or not the people he talks to are.

You'd be better off running on AI. your mind's obviously the dumbest ever.

Later you will tell me the bank account I have is imaginary, because your high on folly.

superhumanist:


Another way to put it-

If there is no salt or Maggi or any seasoning in your cooking, I know it is tasteless.


Just as I know that you are 'relationshipless" with God since there is no seasoning (communication, no picture of god, no voice etc).

I pray a quick relief for you man. Like someone said, "It's bad to be dumb, it's worse to be dumb and think you're smart" Yours is a Level 12 dumbness on a scale of 10.

Smart thinking folks would at least know, that they need to have seen me and my soup first, and not just sit somewhere and make silly assertions.
In your mind, only salt and seasoning make a soup taste great. You see your life? do you even need to be a theist to realize that your assumption is shallow?

With growth comes better reasoning, wait on it dude.

awesomeJ:

Dude, are you human? if yes, did you trade your brain for a cow's?
if not for foolishness and mental derailment. on your part. how could you possibly be think that you could tell someone you know nothing about how real or not the people be talks to are.

You'd be better off running on AI. your mind's obviously the dumbest ever.

Later you will tell me the bank account I have is imaginary, because your high on folly.

Ogbeni, tell me what good looks and sounds like.

You have an almighty friend you cannot describe or explain to people.

awesomeJ:

I pray a quick relief for you man. Like someone said, "It's bad to be dumb, it's worse to be dumb and think you're smart" Yours is a Level 12 dumbness on a scale of 10.

Smart thinking folks would at least know, that they need to have seen me and my soup first, and not just sit somewhere and make silly assertions.
In your mind, only salt and season make a soup taste great. You see your life? do you even need to be a theist to realize that your assumption is shallow?

With growth comes better reasoning, wait on it dude.

Your insults only confirm that I used logic to puncture your hot air balloon of nonsensical defense for an imaginary God.

Don't Lett pain and butthurt frustrate you. The truth is bitter but it will set you free.

It is not hard to admit that there is no evidence for God.

awesomeJ:

In your mind, only salt and seasoning make a soup taste great. You see your life? do you even need to be a theist to realize that your assumption is shallow?

With growth comes better reasoning, wait on it dude.

Are there witches in your village? Only witchcraft can make a soup without seasoning taste great

superhumanist:




Ogbeni, tell me what good looks and sounds like.

You have an almighty friend you cannot describe or explain to people.

Who are you man?
How tall am I? Since you don't even have the slightest clue of my person, how could you be convenient just assuming I can't describe people in my relationships?

You can't eat bread, you can't even talk with your own daughter. Is it reasonable at all for me to say these things about you when I don't have the slightest clue whom you are, African or Briton?

Na real wah for you o.