superhumanist:



Your insults only confirm that I used logic to puncture your hot air balloon of nonsensical defense for an imaginary God.

Don't Lett pain and butthurt frustrate you. The truth is bitter but it will set you free.

It is not hard to admit that there is no evidence for God.

Really, sorry for the insults. it's got nothing to do with my faith though.

it's just, if you were coming out from a movie theatre with your spouse, and one silly guys runs to you with grasses in his hand and hands them over to you and your wife to start eating, and he tells you that he knows you guys are not real humans, and that you're actually animals who just have the illusion of being humans.

If this happened to you, you may be more provoked, and react to him worse than I did.
Why? cos this is a guy you've never met, and in his own silliness now thinks he's to define to you what your life and experiences are. that's what you did man.

If you don't know me, it's pretty silly of you to say some relationships I have are imaginary.

Gggg102:



my definition of god which I gave Dalaman on the first page of this thread has no other claim than

1. such being created the universe
and
2. such being could be involved or uninterested with the affairs of his creation.

That means you don't even know what God is since your definition isn't clear and relies on maybes.

superhumanist:



Wrong analog


I know that you are lying the same way my 4 year old is lying when he says santa Claus is his friend.

You know I once made a post about this Santa Claus. I said why don't you atheist spend so much time trying to convince folks that he doesn't exist.

It's basically cos, you don't have to. Since there aren't many people if any who have had experiences with him, no one thus finds any reason to hold on to such belief in his existence no matter how strongly they've had the belief in their childhood.

But with God, you were the vast majority of the human population across all ages and through every generation still holding in to their belief in Him, why?

Surely cos they have experiences which confirm His existence to them. Should they stop having such experiences, it won't be long before the whole idea fizzles off. But we'll keep having the experiences, and generations after us will yet have them. So no matter how much you make baseless rantings, they'll always be a waste of your own time.

awesomeJ:


Just as someone could say to Dangote, "let him show us a truck load of cash to prove that he's Africa's richest"
You think any amount of such rants by any fellow should make Dangote bulge?

How much less God Almighty. He's not out to impress you or convince you that He exists, if that was what He wanted, does common sense not make it obvious that he would have coded us to compulsorily accept him? The power of choice is one of the greatest He has given to man, and He very much respects it.

Finally, even if he chose to appear, let's even say that could happen, the atheists that I know you guys to be would still say it's not enough proof, you'd probably say it's an alien from another galaxy, and then spread news about an impending human colonization by aliens.

How can someone tell you that one moment he was bedfast, and just waiting to die of cancer, having been given up on by the finest doctors, and then he prayed in faith, and instantly his body was made whole.

The only thing you could do is say maybe it didn't happen, but since it really did happen, it defies common sense for you to still seek any other proof of the supernatural. That experience to an objective mind, is more proof than any sky-appearing stunt you guys seek.

And the only reason you keep asking for God to show himself I. the sky, is not so you can believe-naah..
It's cos, just as with Dangote, you know He won't bulge just cos of some silly rantings.

Except any of you explains how these supernatural encounters we described could have ordinarily happenings, then it's obvious we've given you proofs of the supernatural that you can't deny.

Kindly stop comparing Dangote to your God it looks absurd , Dangote is human and we all know he's wealthy from his investment, we don't need Dangote to show us truck of his money, this is 21 century!

If God appear in the sky and said "oh humans I'm Yahweh or Brahma your lord thy God" who wants to deny that? Whether he's an alien or fairy that's not the point now, the point is we all now see Yahweh or Brahma is real, then his nature will be discuss.

awesomeJ:

You know I once made a post about this Santa Claus. I said why don't you atheist spend so much time trying to convince folks that he doesn't exist.

It's basically cos, you don't have to. Since there aren't many people if any who have had experiences with him, no one thus finds any reason to hold on to such belief in his existence no matter how strongly they've had the belief in their childhood.

But with God, you were the vast majority of the human population across all ages and through every generation still holding in to their belief in Him, why?

Surely cos they have experiences which confirm His existence to them. Should they stop having such experiences, it won't be long before the whole idea fizzles off. But we'll keep having the experiences, and generations after us will yet have them. So no matter how much you make baseless rantings, they'll always be a waste of your own time.

Lol....you should read about how many people leave those experiences with God and become atheists because of rants on the internet

tintingz:


If God appear in the sky and said "oh humans I'm Yahweh or Brahma your lord thy God" who wants to deny that?.

You would still deny.
You claim Dangote doesn't need to show a truck load of money to prove he's rich, because his investments are obvious.
Just take a deep thought, and tell me how that is any different from what we tell you that:

God doesn't need to show himself in the sky to prove He's real, because his works are obvious.

What's the difference between both our claims.

Try to read the narration I gave of Kenneth Hagin's healing from cancer, then attempt to explain how it's anything short of the supernatural. If you fail at that attempt, then you'd have to take that narration as an evidence for the existence for the supernatural.

superhumanist:



Lol....you should read about how many people leave those experiences with God and become atheists because of rants on the internet

Well, it's obviously their choice and not my business. If it works fine for them. I've got no issues with them.

awesomeJ:

You would still deny.
You claim Dangote doesn't need to show a truck load of money to prove he's rich, because his investments are obvious.
Just take a deep thought, and tell me how that is any different from what we tell you that:

God doesn't need to show himself in the sky to prove He's real, because his works are obvious.

What's the difference between both our claims.

Try to read the narration I gave of Kenneth Hagin's healing from cancer, then attempt to explain how it's anything short of the supernatural. If you fail at that attempt, then you'd have to take that narration as an evidence for the existence for the supernatural.

You're not getting it, Every investment Dangote made there is inscription of his trademark "Dangote Group" to claim ownership, abeg where is the trademark of Yahweh written on what he created?

Yahweh should come out and claim ownership of what he claim he created, he should show us he's real and not imaginary, I will never deny!

I did not say I only studied them on paper. I was very specific about the various studies I have done about gods, and I am very careful in my writings. If you can't regard the effort I put in, you would make me not want to bother responding to you. And if you think I would lie, then I definitely will have to not bother responding to you. I do not lie, as a fundamental rule of my existence.

Emmanystone:

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh you went into their midsts, you studied about them, on the pages of paper and decided they didn't exist. I see.

I don't know much about the gods of your land, but did you try to see their potency by daring to do what the people said shouldn't be done?
You know, it's not enough to join them in dancing their masquerades, eating sacrificed to idols then go away saying, there's nothing there.
Pls me what and what you did to dare the gods of your land that you went away unhurt.

Who will i call who will know if you lied ooo. Sir Muttleylaff is a Christian, Ishilove is a Christian. Butterfly1on is a Christian. PaganNaija, Babalawos, pls come o, this guy says una juju nothing dey inside.

Come ask him questions of what he did to prove that there are no gods in Yorubaland.

Me i see thunderbold, Magun, and i know that no human can cause that.

Gggg102:



if I keep pointing to thin air claiming I have a Bugatti, it means I don't have a Bugatti. you can now assert that I have no Bugatti by virtue of which you are no longer atheistic since you believe or better still you know I don't have a Bugatti.

Thanks for comprehending.

awesomeJ:

You don't really think this your long post follows with the scope of my comments do you?

Let me help you.

I gave an instance to demonstrate to Seun, that we as Christians have proof for our faith:

1. I write a letter to someone asking for something.
Something that couldn't just happen to just anyone.

2. The thing gets done specifically as I request.

3. I conclude that the thing happened for me solely due to the letter since I know I never sought any other means. I however acknowledge that it happened to other people through other means.

4. Then I concluded that there surely is a person who gets my letters.

And That's a solid proof I have for that person's existence.

5. You said you agreed with the analogy.

6. Then you added an unnecessary part saying I claimed only letter writing works and that I wanted you to start writing letters.
THAT DOESN'T FOLLOW BRO.

Please note the two statements in red. Are they not contradictory, one claiming it only happens to you through your means, the other claiming it happens to others through other means.

As I mentioned. There is no reason for you to have to prove your guy in New York exists unless you are trying to get me to write to him. And since you seem to be insisting so much, I now wonder what you gain is.

tintingz:
You're not getting it, Every investment Dangote made there is inscription of his trademark "Dangote Group" to claim ownership, abeg where is the trademark of Yahweh written on what he created?

Yahweh should come out and claim ownership of what he claim he created, he should show us he's real and not imaginary, I will never deny!

You rather are the one not seeing the obvious.
You don't have to see Jim's name on Zenith Bank or Visafone to know he built those businesses. You could just ask folks who work in those companies, they'd tell you it's his handiwork.

So, when God instantly heals Kenneth Hagin of cancer, contrary to your opinion, he doesn't have to scream to anyone that He did it. You could just ask Kenneth himself, he'll confirm it to you.

budaatum:

Please note the two statements in red. Are they not contradictory, one claiming it only happens to you through your means, the other claiming it happens to others through other means.

As I mentioned. There is no reason for you to have to prove your guy in New York exists unless you are trying to get me to write to him. And since you seem to be insisting so much, I now wonder what you gain is.

baba, there is a reason they made English language compulsory in schools now. It's to aid easy comprehension.

If I said, "I am wealthy, and that's not something that happens to just anyone" It doesn't mean I've said that being wealthy happens to only me. it rather means that I am saying it doesn't happen to everyone. Please take a deep thought on that, it should sink.

Now, your assumption that my motive for proving my guy's existence to you is to get you acquainted with him is wrong.

You claimed he doesn't exist, and my primary motive is to show you that you're wrong in that claim.

awesomeJ:


You rather are the one not seeing the obvious.
You don't have to see Jim's name on Zenith Bank or Visafone to know he built those businesses. You could just ask folks who work in those companies, they'd tell you it's his handiwork.

So, when God instantly heals Kenneth Hagin of cancer, contrary to your opinion, he doesn't have to scream to anyone that He did it. You could just ask Kenneth himself, he'll confirm it to you.

The owner of Zenith bank has his name legally registered, there's evidence he owns the company, no other person can claim the ownership!

I still don't get your point, please Yahweh should show us himself from the sky.

If you say, "I am wealthy, and that's not something that happens to just anyone", while you are not claiming becoming wealthy happens to only you, you are claiming some level of uniqueness. And that's okay.

So, you write letters to a guy in New York to get what you want. I don't write letters to anyone in New York and still get what you get. So, it does not happen to everyone, but I am saying it happens to me, that I get everything you get except I don't write letters to guys in New York. (That was my first response to yours and you never said I don't get what you get, which if you had, would have sent us off on another course of discussion.)

Since I already get everything you get, I am saying your source is irrelevant to me, and there is no reason to doubt you. And I would be very stupid to claim your source does not exist, if the conversation were to stop there. (Please note that last sentence very carefully!)

It only becomes relevant when you ask me to write to your guy in New York, which I would only need to do when you get something I am not getting from my source.

awesomeJ:

baba, there is a reason they made English language compulsory in schools now. It's to aid easy comprehension.

If I said, "I am wealthy, and that's not something that happens to just anyone" It doesn't mean I've said that being wealthy happens to only me. it rather means that I am saying it doesn't happen to everyone. Please take a deep thought on that, it should sink.

Now, your assumption that my motive for proving my guy's existence to you is to get you acquainted with him is wrong.

You claimed he doesn't exist, and my primary motive is to show you that you're wrong in that claim.

dalaman:


That means you don't even know what God is since your definition isn't clear and relies on maybes.

how isn't it clear?

I stated that god is the guy who created the universe and may or may not interfere with his creation.

budaatum:
Thanks for comprehending.

you are welcome

budaatum:
Thanks for comprehending.

you are welcome

awesomeJ:


Just as someone could say to Dangote, "let him show us a truck load of cash to prove that he's Africa's richest"
You think any amount of such rants by any fellow should make Dangote bulge?

How much less God Almighty. He's not out to impress you or convince you that He exists, if that was what He wanted, does common sense not make it obvious that he would have coded us to compulsorily accept him? The power of choice is one of the greatest He has given to man, and He very much respects it.

Finally, even if he chose to appear, let's even say that could happen, the atheists that I know you guys to be would still say it's not enough proof, you'd probably say it's an alien from another galaxy, and then spread news about an impending human colonization by aliens.

How can someone tell you that one moment he was bedfast, and just waiting to die of cancer, having been given up on by the finest doctors, and then he prayed in faith, and instantly his body was made whole.

The only thing you could do is say maybe it didn't happen, but since it really did happen, it defies common sense for you to still seek any other proof of the supernatural. That experience to an objective mind, is more proof than any sky-appearing stunt you guys seek.

And the only reason you keep asking for God to show himself I. the sky, is not so you can believe-naah..
It's cos, just as with Dangote, you know He won't bulge just cos of some silly rantings.

Except any of you explains how these supernatural encounters we described could have ordinarily happenings, then it's obvious we've given you proofs of the supernatural that you can't deny.

Why will anyone ask Dangote to show him a truck load of money before accepting he ia the richest man ib Africa? Whats he doing with such knowledge? Why will dangote prove to anyone that he is that rich? Will u give him extra money?
Ur God is all over the place pleading for love, killing his son for our sake, asking us to look unto him, telling us our present and after life is in his hands, even threatening is with hell if we dont love him back yet he prefers to hide and use the experience of a human like me to prove to me he exists. Even if your god exist, why ia he acting like a confused fellow?

Gggg102:


how isn't it clear?

I stated that god is the guy who created the universe and may or may not interfere with his creation.

May or may not interfere with his creation means you don't know what he does specifically. Meaning you have no idea of what he does. You are just projecting what you feel he can or can not do. It's simply speculation at best.

dalaman:


May or may not interfere with his creation means you don't know what he does specifically. Meaning you have no idea of what he does. You are just projecting what you feel he can or can not do. It's simply speculation at best.

what if I say creator of universe who does as he pleases

awesomeJ:

You would still deny.
You claim Dangote doesn't need to show a truck load of money to prove he's rich, because his investments are obvious.
Just take a deep thought, and tell me how that is any different from what we tell you that:

God doesn't need to show himself in the sky to prove He's real, because his works are obvious.

What's the difference between both our claims.

Try to read the narration I gave of Kenneth Hagin's healing from cancer, then attempt to explain how it's anything short of the supernatural. If you fail at that attempt, then you'd have to take that narration as an evidence for the existence for the supernatural.

Really God might not need to show us his face but with all his powers ans awesomeness and wisdom he just cant anything that can prove to the world he exists ?
Sometimea i think u guys dont really understand what comes to mind of a human when u describe God theu way u do? Or i think somewhere in ur mind u guys are actually joking and dont take u own words serious. Or u dont really beleive he is as great as u make him sound.

This is someone who supposedly created the whole universe, knows our yesterday and tomorrow, knows the thought and future actions of ove 7billion people all over the world. Knows everyone before he is born...yet u are telling me to know he exists i must depend on ur ezperience of him and have faith and read ancient jewish story book?

How does he suddenly stop being this almigthy God when it comes to showing the world he exists? How come its u who have the power to show us God, as great as he is, exists?

Is something not fishy?

Gggg102:



what if I say creator of universe who does as he pleases

How does he do as he pleases? Give a specific example.

budaatum:
I did not say I only studied them on paper. I was very specific about the various studies I have done about gods, and I am very careful in my writings. If you can't regard the effort I put in, you would make me not want to bother responding to you. And if you think I would lie, then I definitely will have to not bother responding to you. I do not lie, as a fundamental rule of my existence.

You still did not tell me how you knew that these gods don't exist or are impotent. Did you challenge their powers by doing what they said you shouldn't do?

Only YHWH will ignore till judgement Day, but did you try defying Obatala or Ogun?

In my Community there's one which is all male initiates. Even males who are not initiates don't dare venture out when they are performing their rituals. Every door gets locked, all windows closed. No single individual comes out of their houses except the initiate, until they are done.

I would expect that you'd tell me that in a situation like this, you dedied the diety and came out and went about your business as a non initiate, and you went scot free.

See? you being a unbeliever in this instance should defy the deity and venture out to prove it doesn't exist.

Bros abeg, leave this thing.

tintingz:
The owner of Zenith bank has his name legally registered, there's evidence he owns the company, no other person can claim the ownership!

I still don't get your point, please Yahweh should show us himself from the sky.

You seem to be forgetting your own line of argument, so I'll remind you.
"Dangote does not need to show a truck load of cash to prove he's rich, cos his investments are obvious"
The equivalent of that is our position that
"God does not need to appear in the sky to prove he's real cos his works are obvious"

Then you raised the point about Dangote's signature being conspicuous on all his investments.
I then gave you an instance wherein someone may choose not to put his signature conspicuously on his investment.

So when you come now with the argument that the person's name is registered legally, you are forgetting where you started the argument from. You said because his investments are obvious. So the legal documents that establish an ownership, are they displayed on billboards? Have you seen any certificate of ownership for any of Dangote's businesses?

So, the talk on registration doesn't tally with your argument of "because his investments are obvious".

budaatum:
If you say, "I am wealthy, and that's not something that happens to just anyone", while you are not claiming becoming wealthy happens to only you, you are claiming some level of uniqueness. And that's okay.

So, you write letters to a guy in New York to get what you want. I don't write letters to anyone in New York and still get what you get. So, it does not happen to everyone, but I am saying it happens to me, that I get everything you get except I don't write letters to guys in New York. (That was my first response to yours and you never said I don't get what you get, which if you had, would have sent us off on another course of discussion.)

Since I already get everything you get, I am saying your source is irrelevant to me, and there is no reason to doubt you. And I would be very stupid to claim your source does not exist, if the conversation were to stop there. (Please note that last sentence very carefully!)

It only becomes relevant when you ask me to write to your guy in New York, which I would only need to do when you get something I am not getting from my source.

I'm glad the pattern of our argument has been established to you now.

So now, please quote where exactly I said you should write letters to my guy.

frank317:


Why will anyone ask Dangote to show him a truck load of money before accepting he ia the richest man ib Africa? Whats he doing with such knowledge? Why will dangote prove to anyone that he is that rich? Will u give him extra money?
Ur God is all over the place pleading for love, killing his son for our sake, asking us to look unto him, telling us our present and after life is in his hands, even threatening is with hell if we dont love him back yet he prefers to hide and use the experience of a human like me to prove to me he exists. Even if your god exist, why ia he acting like a confused fellow?

You'd do yourself a whole lot of good, making efforts to discard the ignorance you're here flaunting.

In case your mind deceives you, there have been billions of people in all generations, much better than you on several notes, who have willingly lived their entire lives serving God.

So why in your silly imaginations would you think he needs to beg anyone for love?

if you saw just one angel, the experience would overwhelm you, yet He has billions of them worshipping Him, and can make trillions more if He wanted?

God isn't begging you for anything? He couldn't possibly be. He's only offering you a way out of an impending eternal damnation. You may chooses to reject Him. Millions of people do, makes no difference. Safe journey to wherever you think you're headed after life.

awesomeJ:


You'd do yourself a whole lot of good, making efforts to discard the ignorance you're here flaunting.

In case your mind deceives you, there have been billions of people in all generations, much better than you on several notes, who have willingly lived their entire lives serving God.

So why in your silly imaginations would you think he needs to beg anyone for love?

if you saw just one angel, the experience would overwhelm you, yet He has billions of them worshipping Him, and can make trillions more if He wanted?

God isn't begging you for anything? He couldn't possibly be. He's only offering you a way out of an impending eternal damnation. You may chooses to reject Him. Millions of people do, makes no difference. Safe journey to wherever you think you're headed after life.

Fallacy Detected!

Fallacy name : Argumentum ad Populum

Meaning: Latin for " argument to the people " ) is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it, often concisely encapsulated as: "If many believe so, it is so."
It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held does not necessarily guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

Examples: Everyone's doing it; therefore, it must be good.

Billions of people agree with my viewpoint; therefore, it must be right.

frank317:


Really God might not need to show us his face but with all his powers ans awesomeness and wisdom he just cant anything that can prove to the world he exists ?
Sometimea i think u guys dont really understand what comes to mind of a human when u describe God theu way u do? Or i think somewhere in ur mind u guys are actually joking and dont take u own words serious. Or u dont really beleive he is as great as u make him sound.

This is someone who supposedly created the whole universe, knows our yesterday and tomorrow, knows the thought and future actions of ove 7billion people all over the world. Knows everyone before he is born...yet u are telling me to know he exists i must depend on ur ezperience of him and have faith and read ancient jewish story book?

How does he suddenly stop being this almigthy God when it comes to showing the world he exists? How come its u who have the power to show us God, as great as he is, exists?

Is something not fishy?

You're on a wrong page.

I didn't say God cannot show himself. it's easier than the easiest for Him to do that.

I gave an illustration about Dangote to show you that for any mature personality, the rantings of some folks who doubt their status could never bulge them.

If you insist Dangote should show you his truck load of cash to prove his wealthy status. Then it's becomes established that He wouldn't even regard that, talk less of do it. As an open minded person, wouldn't you seek other available means to verify his wealth status? Would you not try looking into his assets and investments as proof? So it's silly asking God to show Himself, when His works are conspicuous and countless.

hopefulLandlord:


Fallacy Detected!

Fallacy name : Argumentum ad Populum

Meaning: Latin for " argument to the people " ) is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it, often concisely encapsulated as: "If many believe so, it is so."
It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held does not necessarily guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

Examples: Everyone's doing it; therefore, it must be good.

Billions of people agree with my viewpoint; therefore, it must be right.

Save us the lecture prof.
Guy said God begs people for love. I debunked that, saying He's had billions of people who willingly served Him, and so he couldn't possibly be begging anyone for anything.

Now, when you would interprete that, what you got was "billions of people worship God, therefore He's true".

Maybe you should turn on gravity on your mobile device if that's what you're viewing with, cos it appears you read the post up side down.

budaatum:
I did not say I only studied them on paper. I was very specific about the various studies I have done about gods, and I am very careful in my writings. If you can't regard the effort I put in, you would make me not want to bother responding to you. And if you think I would lie, then I definitely will have to not bother responding to you. I do not lie, as a fundamental rule of my existence.

Abeg no vex. I shd ve apologized last night as i responded to this post. I didn't say you lied or that you are a liar, i just needed to know how you got to know that Obatala or Ogun are not gods. The only way you can say that if you had defied them and worked away.

I called those monikers because they are Yoruba so knows those deities and someone like Babalawos worships them. The intent is, if you are not accurate in your presentations, they'd know.

I didn't mean to sound insulting. I'm sorry Buda.

awesomeJ:

So now, please quote where exactly I said you should write letters to my guy.

awesomeJ:

Getting the fact of His existence established is first, thereafter, I may tell you all He's got to offer, and if they make enough sense to you, you may accept Him. If on the other hand, you're convinced you'd be better off without Him, it'd still be alright. But this time around, your rejection of Him wouldn't mean he doesn't exist, that fact would have been what we already established.

Though, in all honesty, I posed it first.

The thing is, your belief in the guy you write to in New York is pertinent to you, and would only become a question for me if I consider writing to him. Otherwise there is absolutely no consequence whether I believe you or not. And its the same with Gods. If I know my god exist, why do I have to prove it to anyone? If you don't accept that I get what I get from my god in New York, that's your problem and I don't have to prove it to you!