donnie:


And your problem is that you try to make it a "Christ Embassy doctrine", thereby trying hard to water down the truth of God's Word by your experiences and traditions. But you have failed.

Matthew 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Yes, it is Christ Embassy doctrine

What are we even saying, Christ Embassy teaches that once you are born again, that you can be demon possessed, you can't be demon oppressed or be under oppression of witchcraft powers. That all those are part of the old things that have died. All you need do is confess the word and live a victorious Christian life of prosperity. Whereas the Bible was talking about the old nature of the sinful man.

C.E sauocannot be tied down, cannot be stopped, you're too much for the devil etc. Even to someone that got born again yesterday.

That is why 90‰, of C.E messages is focused on prosperity, either directly or indirectly.

Now not even has spiritual battles. Ko se gbogbo eniyan lo ni Ogun.

Everyone has challenges, but not everyone has spiritual battles. Some are lucky to be born free of such. If you're such a person, Christ Embassy may work just fine you.

But if you were born with spiritual battles, by reason of household and lineage (it comes through blood), if you think by associating yourself with a church full of beautiful successful people, you too would become rich and successful, you're only deceiving yourself. You need to pray, come against those powers and delivered by the power of Christ from their grasp.

donnie:


You don't know Christ Embassy...in fact, you're a learner when it comes to the Spirit.

[url=https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DzwKN6l8Rxlw&ved=0ahUKEwin4pCQ4c7ZAhUB2KQKHVmJCnwQwqsBCCkwAQ&usg=AOvVaw1c_s1lefiBMgze_iYFqD8b]WATCH LIVE DEVIL BEING CAST OUT[/url]

You just make me laugh. I'm sorry to say this, one of the traits of a lots of youths in Christ embassy is, they exhibit signs of someone that has been brainwashed.

shadeyinka:


My point is that as Christians, we are many time very narrow in our point of view about spiritual things.

Is confessing the word and building up our most holy Faith optional for Christians?
NO!
Is confessing the word and meditation on the word the alpha and omega of victorious christian living?
NO!
Are spiritual warfare a normal part of the Christian experience?
YES!
How do we conduct spiritual warfare: by confessing the word of God?
NO!
But by engaging them through "our words":... "Come out of him in Jesus name,... Be healed in Jesus name,... Loose your hold in Jesus name.... I scatter your kingdom in Jesus name... "
Our words NOT the scripture.

Deliverance, Healing is done by US through the Power of the Holy Spirit in US.

I guess where we differ most is that you /Christ embassy believes that once you become a mature Christian through the word, spiritual oppositions cease to exist because you are loaded with the word. No!

Let me give you an insight:
Pastor Chris marriage to Anita was under satanic siege and despite the maturity of Both Pastor Chris and Pastor Anita, it was like Satan succeeded.

Now, don't get me wrong!
They are both still matured Christians who practice what they preach. They are both not babes in Christ.
AND
God didn't put them asunder (if God didn't for he hates divorce, who did).


Even matured christians sometimes break under satanic siege.

So, meditate on the word
-Confess the word
-Confront and break satanic siege (healing and deliverance)
-Live according to the Kingdom's rule
-Do the work of the Kingdom
-Put on the whole armour of God etc

Spiritual oppositions cease to exist?? Where did you get that from?

Anyways, one thing for sure, we will not use squad missiles to kill mosquitoes.

You probably think spiritual warfare is all about casting out devils...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


You probably read the above scripture and use it to support your claim. But read verses 13-18. You'll see that the arumour is all about the Word. And then it mentions praying in the Spirit.

See what real spiritual warfare is:

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Strongholds there are the negative thought patterns, mindsets and philosophies. Any truly spiritual person knows that that's wehere the greater battles are fought...THE BATTLE OF THE MIND. Not with devils!

They're already defeated. They may throw thoughts and stir up situations against you but they're defeated nonetheless. You deal with devils from the standpoint of a Victor. Not that you're trying to engage them in a battle.

The wrestling there in Eph 6:12 is actually fighting to stay on course in God's Word. Not fighting to defeat devils. Satan schemes against the Christian, throwing firery darts(Eph 6:16), lies, tricks, wrong thoughts on his way but the Christian must stay on course..standing on the Word...not on anointing oil or so-called deliverance prayer.

Prayer is for fellowship, communion with the Spirit, for worship, intercession etc. Then we are fortified and Satan has no place.

Casting out devils should be the ccommon practice of every Christian.

Then you went lower than i thought you guys could ever go...mentioning his marriage and pastor Anita. Shame on you.


Jesus' greatest battle on earth was not with devils, it was with himself...whether or not to obey God. Remember His prayer and agony in the garden?

double0seven:


You just make me laugh. I'm sorry to say this, one of the traits of a lots of youths in Christ embassy is, they exhibit signs of someone that has been brainwashed.

You're correct, i have been brainwashed... heartwashed too

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

double0seven:


Yes, it is Christ Embassy doctrine

What are we even saying, Christ Embassy teaches that once you are born again, that you can be demon possessed, you can't be demon oppressed or be under oppression of witchcraft powers. That all those are part of the old things that have died. All you need do is confess the word and live a victorious Christian life of prosperity. Whereas the Bible was talking about the old nature of the sinful man.

C.E sauocannot be tied down, cannot be stopped, you're too much for the devil etc. Even to someone that got born again yesterday.

That is why 90‰, of C.E messages is focused on prosperity, either directly or indirectly.

Now not even has spiritual battles. Ko se gbogbo eniyan lo ni Ogun.

Everyone has challenges, but not everyone has spiritual battles. Some are lucky to be born free of such. If you're such a person, Christ Embassy may work just fine you.

But if you were born with spiritual battles, by reason of household and lineage (it comes through blood), if you think by associating yourself with a church full of beautiful successful people, you too would become rich and successful, you're only deceiving yourself. You need to pray, come against those powers and delivered by the power of Christ from their grasp.

You listened to them, you didn't understand; but your pride will not let you ask relevant questions.

And they're correct, a person who got born again today is above all things including Satan. Deal with it.

Abeg who get chance, make e come teach this one foundation school class 1.

I'm looking for those who at least know the basics.

donnie:


Spiritual oppositions cease to exist?? Where did you get that from?

Anyways, one thing for sure, we will not use squad missiles to kill mosquitoes.

You probably think spiritual warfare is all about casting out devils...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


You probably read the above scripture and use it to support your claim. But read verses 13-18. You'll see that the arumour is all about the Word. And then it mentions praying in the Spirit.

See what real spiritual warfare is:

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Strongholds there are the negative thought patterns, mindsets and philosophies. Any truly spiritual person knows that that's wehere the greater battles are fought...THE BATTLE OF THE MIND. Not with devils!

They're already defeated. They may throw thoughts and stir up situations against you but they're defeated nonetheless. You deal with devils from the standpoint of a Victor. Not that you're trying to engage them in a battle.

The wrestling there in Eph 6:12 is actually fighting to stay on course in God's Word. Not fighting to defeat devils. Satan schemes against the Christian, throwing firery darts(Eph 6:16), lies, tricks, wrong thoughts on his way but the Christian must stay on course..standing on the Word...not on anointing oil or so-called deliverance prayer.

Prayer is for fellowship, communion with the Spirit, for worship, intercession etc. Then we are fortified and Satan has no place.

Casting out devils should be the ccommon practice of every Christian.

Then you went lower than i thought you guys could ever go...mentioning his marriage and pastor Anita. Shame on you.


Jesus' greatest battle on earth was not with devils, it was with himself...whether or not to obey God. Remember His prayer and agony in the garden?

Thank God you quoted the below scriptures :


"Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

You talk about about BATTLE OF THE MIND being the greatest bayyle. Please, do tell, where do these battle of the mind come from, after all the Lord have is us sound mind. What is the source.

Those battle in the mind, their source is evil projections from rulers of darkness, powers and principalities in high places.

The Bible has stated what spiritual warfare is clearly, but you have managed to twist it around says it's mainly about battles with ourselves and our mind.


Its theses evil powers that interfere with our minds.

double0seven:


Thank God you quoted the below scriptures :


"Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

You talk about about BATTLE OF THE MIND being the greatest bayyle. Please, do tell, where do these battle of the mind come from, after all the Lord have is us sound mind. What is the source.

Those battle in the mind, their source is evil projections from rulers of darkness, powers and principalities in high places.

The Bible has stated what spiritual warfare is clearly, but you have managed to twist it around says it's mainly about battles with ourselves and our mind.


Its theses evil powers that interfere with our minds.

Of course...negative thoughts come from Satan.

What's your point really?

Maestro21:


You lot are funny but it is allowed. If you know the person you are talking about, you would get his messages and give them to your pastor. The revelations from him don’t seem ordinary. He talks like one who hears directly from God.

You say he hates Fasting and Prayer but you lied. Only last month for most of the month of February We were praying and fasting. We also do it every first Sunday of a new month.

Since I am in the mood, let me also correct some of your false teachings. We are not told anywhere to fast and pray. All over the Bible, the apostles of Jesus always PRAYED and fasted.

Do you see the order? It is the praying that you would be doing that would cause you to fast. Any other order na just pure hunger strike.

The second false teaching; that we fast to make power available. That is a false teaching. Power for service already came when Jesus gave us the “great commission”. What prayer and fasting does is it sets you attune to the leading of God. It raises your spiritual atenna if you please.

If you see people getting things done more when they pray and fast it is for that very fact not that power was missing. That is why the Holy Spirit told them to separate Paul and Barnabas at some point, yet just earlier they had selected Matthias (who may have not been Gods choice).

Lol......God will deliver us all from false teachings...

shadeyinka:

You seem only to have a point with your first point.. Perhaps Peter wasn't yet born again.
Unfortunately what you have just concluded a number of things
1. The Presence of Jesus with the disciples didn't stop them from being demonized(eh Peter, Judas)

I see where your problem is. There is a possession by demons and an oppression by demons. They are not the same. Peter was not demonised. Peter expressed a thought that was a lie and Jesus called the actual author and father of such lies out - the Devil.

2. If Jesus is one with the Holy Spirit, how come Satan was able to "take" Jesus to the Tip of the Temple etc.. Of course Jesus overcame Satan by not giving in to Satan but the will of God through His words.

Actually, it was the Holy Spirit himself that led Jesus to be tempted not satan. Jesus came as the 2nd Adam and of necessity had to be subjected to the same type of temptation that the first Adam was subjected to. To prove he was a worthy sacrifice. Your theology is jammed up again here.

This brings number of issues
a. Did Jesus overcome Satan because He had the Holy Spirit or because he didn't yield to satans will?

Not succumbing to satan's advances was not Jesus overcoming him. Jesus was proving the first level of his obedience to the father. He overcame satan about 3.5 years later.

b. In what way was Peter different (apart from the fact that he yielded to satans promptings)?

"My sheep hear my voice, the voice of a stranger they will not yield to"- Jesus. Peter was not being tested as a worthy sacrifice. He thought that proclaiming that Jesus would not die was a good thing but Jesus knew exactly who was producing such promptings and it was not the Holy Spirit (who himself sent Jesus to die)

c. Of course Peter was not "possessed with Satan but he was only demonized

To be possessed is to be demonised. It means a demon or more is resident in you and has control over your body. If Peter were demonised then why was he praised by Jesus that the words he spoke were revealed by God himself? You see your theology is jammy again.

In other words, Peter was demonized not because he wasn't born again except of course if your final conclusion is the a christian (born again, tongue talking) cannot fall into temptation and thus commit a transgression.

One can yield to the flesh without being demonised and that is what happens when born-again christians fall to temptation. Satan can put pressure (externally) on a christian student, causing him to cheat. Or use persecution to cause a christian to hide his faith. It does not mean said Christian was possessed by a demon. How will the demon and the holy spirit coexist in the person? Who is greater?

Your second point is also non effectual!
First, Jesus gave His disciples Power power over all kinds of demons and sickness. That episode where they couldn't cast out demons from a boy wasnt their first time. Intact, they were surprised that they couldn't cast it out.

No, he did not give them power but authority (delegated power) and they are not the same. Delegated power means their authority over whatever they were delegated to do was dependent on the power of the one who sent them and Jesus did not have all authority at that point. When he died and resurrected, that is when he got ALL the authority, and afterwards, we never see them cast out demons that refused to come out. In fact, they began healing people without even praying at all. See why I said TIMING again?

Yes, Jesus did not pray, neither did he fast that means that the lesson Jesus was teaching was not about a "Fire-Brigade" approach.

Jesus was teaching about a "Life soaked in the Presence of God" through Communion (prayer) and[b] Devotion[/b](fasting).

I agree with your reasoning here but if I want to be pedantic, I would tell you that Jews prayed and fasted regularly as was their custom. Yet, same disciples came to beg Jesus to teach them how to pray. Why? because his own life seemed to show a difference through his prayers. Did we notice much change in them even after he taught them how to pray? Not really: Peter still denied Jesus due to fear. But how was their life after Jesus died and resurrected? Same Peter counted it a thing of honour to be persecuted for the name of Jesus.

I submit it to you today that Peter did that because he had received something later, which he did not have when he denied Jesus - The Holy Spirit dwelling IN him. Not leading him externally.

shadeyinka:

You couldn't have said it better.

Christians seem to forget that the era of God speaking to His children through dreams are NOT over.
Moreover,
Satan can also use that same communication Chanel to speak his negative desire to us.

I wish ministries will spend time on teaching "how a spirit filled Christian can interprete visions and dreams" as well as when God speaks to our spirit.

One key thing a Christian must learn is that in the spirit, NOTHING is free! Even our salvation was paid for by Christ Jesus.

When you receive "an unholy gift" from Satan (sex, food, etc), it is for an exchange of something valuable in ones life.

Shalom

If peter did not know the voice of God he would have woken up from his trance and said that satan tried to feed him unclean things. That is the danger of teaching your experiences over God's word. Satan has no original ideas, if he could give people food through their dreams, he would be copying God because that is all Satan tries to do -copy and then pervert God's message.

Question: If god can feed his children through dreams and satan does too how can we tell who is who? That is the danger with these heresies. There is nowhere in scripture where Satan fed anyone. I would rather take the testimony of the word.

Maestro21:


If peter did not know the voice of God he would have woken up from his trance and said that satan tried to feed him unclean things. That is the danger of teaching your experiences over God's word. Satan has no original ideas, if he could give people food through their dreams, he would be copying God because that is all Satan tries to do -copy and then pervert God's message.

Question: If god can feed his children through dreams and satan does too how can we tell who is who? That is the danger with these heresies. There is nowhere in scripture where Satan fed anyone. I would rather take the testimony of the word.

God did not feed Peter in his dream. Peter wasn't even sleeping. He was in trance on the roof top.

And details of how demonic witchcraft spirit operate are not given in the Bible

shadeyinka:

You couldn't have said it better.

Christians seem to forget that the era of God speaking to His children through dreams are NOT over.
Moreover,
Satan can also use that same communication Chanel to speak his negative desire to us.

I wish ministries will spend time on teaching "how a spirit filled Christian can interprete [b]visions and dreams" as well as when God speaks to our spirit.
[/b]
One key thing a Christian must learn is that in the spirit, NOTHING is free! Even our salvation was paid for by Christ Jesus.

When you receive "an unholy gift" from Satan (sex, food, etc), it is for an exchange of something valuable in ones life.

Shalom

U can create a page for it here. I'd love to learn o.

double0seven:


God did not feed Peter in his dream. Peter wasn't even sleeping. He was in trance on the roof top.

And details of how demonic witchcraft spirit operate are not given in the Bible

Okay.

vicardino:


U can create a page for it here. I'd love to learn o.

I'll try to make some time. I've been staying off NL lately unless its absolutely beneficial to the body of Christ that I comment. I'll sure do that thanks

Maestro21:


If peter did not know the voice of God he would have woken up from his trance and said that satan tried to feed him unclean things. That is the danger of teaching your experiences over God's word. Satan has no original ideas, if he could give people food through their dreams, he would be copying God because that is all Satan tries to do -copy and then pervert God's message.

Question: If god can feed his children through dreams and satan does too how can we tell who is who? That is the danger with these heresies. There is nowhere in scripture where Satan fed anyone. I would rather take the testimony of the word.

How does God normally speak to His children? Through their spirit!?

Can you also answer this question:
How does Satan speak/tempt people?

My sheep know My voice was what Jesus said. A strangers voice they will not follow.

Could it not be that both God and Satan can use the same communication channel.

Its obvious God seldom speaks to you in dreams does He? Is every dream from God?

If you can discern God voice to you in dreams surely, you will know when an information cannot be from God.

Moreover, Satan's main trick is to try and counterfeit Gods way to men

I can repost your question and ask you: Is every food in the dream from God?
Yes/No!

Can God force-feed a person feaces in the dream?

If this happens in the dream, who is responsible? God!?

donnie:


Spiritual oppositions cease to exist?? Where did you get that from?

Anyways, one thing for sure, we will not use squad missiles to kill mosquitoes.

You probably think spiritual warfare is all about casting out devils...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


You probably read the above scripture and use it to support your claim. But read verses 13-18. You'll see that the arumour is all about the Word. And then it mentions praying in the Spirit.

See what real spiritual warfare is:

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Strongholds there are the negative thought patterns, mindsets and philosophies. Any truly spiritual person knows that that's wehere the greater battles are fought...THE BATTLE OF THE MIND. Not with devils!

They're already defeated. They may throw thoughts and stir up situations against you but they're defeated nonetheless. You deal with devils from the standpoint of a Victor. Not that you're trying to engage them in a battle.

The wrestling there in Eph 6:12 is actually fighting to stay on course in God's Word. Not fighting to defeat devils. Satan schemes against the Christian, throwing firery darts(Eph 6:16), lies, tricks, wrong thoughts on his way but the Christian must stay on course..standing on the Word...not on anointing oil or so-called deliverance prayer.

Prayer is for fellowship, communion with the Spirit, for worship, intercession etc. Then we are fortified and Satan has no place.

Casting out devils should be the ccommon practice of every Christian.

Then you went lower than i thought you guys could ever go...mentioning his marriage and pastor Anita. Shame on you.


Jesus' greatest battle on earth was not with devils, it was with himself...whether or not to obey God. Remember His prayer and agony in the garden?

I wish you wouldn't use evasive technique to undermine the key point. If you slowed down to examine Pastor Chris marriage, you will understand that
1. I wasn't castigating or judging him
I was only saying that he is human and subject to errors and buffeting of Satan in this case through his marriage.
Paul was afflicted

2Co 12:7
The Thorn in the FleshAnd lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.

Peter erred even after having the Holy Spirit

Gal 2:11
No Return to the LawNow when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;

In that same sense I speak about Pastor Chris. Honestly, I still do respect him. But, the point I was making was that his marriage was under satanic siege.

You mention the fact that I was confused about the word possession and demonized!

That's not true!
To be demonized is a generic definition which implies being under the influence of demons. This include being Oppressed, Being Obsessed, Being Possessed, Bein Harassed etc.

If Satan gave me reasons to hate you and I do, it means that I am under his influence (demonized). If Satan is in control of the way I think or behave, then I am demonized (under influence).

To be possessed is another thing entirely: it means to be "owned" as in enslavement. (A subset of demonization)

It is impossible for a Christian to be possessed. But a Christian can be demonized. Demonization could be transient or persistent. There is non who doesn't experience the transient one: this is the root of sin and transgressions among matured children of God.

I agree with you, casting out demons should be the bread of every Christian. However, I could be wrong, the impression I have about you in Christ embassy (apart from Pastor Chris himself : sorry I don't know others). Your solution seems to be:

Go read the Word, Believe it , Confess it and all will be well!

I say no!

Every Christ embassy member should be able to say to the demonized:
"..come out of him"
"..lose your hold"
"..you are bound"

This is deliverance. In addition to every other things you do, add this!

Note:
I'm sorry it offended you that I used Pastor Chris marriage. I didn't mean any harm. Neither do I despise the man of God. Until we finish our race here on earth, we are still human.

Maestro21:


I see where your problem is. There is a possession by demons and an oppression by demons. They are not the same. Peter was not demonised. Peter expressed a thought that was a lie and Jesus called the actual author and father of such lies out - the Devil.

Mat 16:23
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Peter was demonized!

Maestro21:

Actually, it was the Holy Spirit himself that led Jesus to be tempted not satan. Jesus came as the 2nd Adam and of necessity had to be subjected to the same type of temptation that the first Adam was subjected to. To prove he was a worthy sacrifice. Your theology is jammed up again here.

Of course the Holy Spirit led Jesus to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan. I didn't say Satan did..

Lk 4:4
Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”

Look at my context above.

My point was that Satan could try to influence Jesus. But Jesus couldn't be influenced (tempted)

Not succumbing to satan's advances was not Jesus overcoming him. Jesus was proving the first level of his obedience to the father. He overcame satan about 3.5 years later.

You are the one mixing it up here.
There was never a time when Jesus did not overcome Satan's will, wiles and temptations.

You will agree with me that Jesus was temptated by Satan.
Who won? Satan!?
No
It was Jesus, he overcame.

The victory on the cross wasn't because of Jesus. It was because of Man. Whether Jesus died or not He is the Creator, the Head of every principality or power. It wasn't when Jesus died that he became this: He had always been.

Maestro21:


"My sheep hear my voice, the voice of a stranger they will not yield to"- Jesus. Peter was not being tested as a worthy sacrifice. He thought that proclaiming that Jesus would not die was a good thing but Jesus knew exactly who was producing such promptings and it was not the Holy Spirit (who himself sent Jesus to die)

I don't know where you got this!

Maestro21:

To be possessed is to be demonised. It means a demon or more is resident in you and has control over your body. If Peter were demonised then why was he praised by Jesus that the words he spoke were revealed by God himself? You see your theology is jammy again.


One can yield to the flesh without being demonised and that is what happens when born-again christians fall to temptation. Satan can put pressure (externally) on a christian student, causing him to cheat. Or use persecution to cause a christian to hide his faith. It does not mean said Christian was possessed by a demon. How will the demon and the holy spirit coexist in the person? Who is greater?

I see that you have mixed up some definitions:
To be possessed is just a tiny aspect of demonization.

To be demonized means to be under the influence of demons. It could be transient or persistent.

Whenever Satan succeeds in influencing me through anything, I have been demonized.

It is impossible for a Christian (born again) to be possessed . However, a Christian can be demonized.

I hope you get the difference.

If Satan succeeded in making me list after a lady, I have been demonized. I may not be possessed.

Only the unregenerated can be possess.

Maestro21:

No, he did not give them power but authority (delegated power) and they are not the same. Delegated power means their authority over whatever they were delegated to do was dependent on the power of the one who sent them and Jesus did not have all authority at that point. When he died and resurrected, that is when he got ALL the authority, and afterwards, we never see them cast out demons that refused to come out. In fact, they began healing people without even praying at all. See why I said TIMING again?

Semantics.
I know the difference between, Power and Authority but you also know that they could be used as synonyms.

Theory not backed by experience is what I see here. If you have casted out one demon from anyone, I will know that you know what you are saying but if not, you are talking theory.

After all, casting out demons are the Children's (of the kingdom) bread. Pastor Chris does cast out demons, how about you?(Of course it isn't a mark of spirituality that's why its children's bread)

Maestro21:

I agree with your reasoning here but if I want to be pedantic, I would tell you that Jews prayed and fasted regularly as was their custom. Yet, same disciples came to beg Jesus to teach them how to pray. Why? because his own life seemed to show a difference through his prayers. Did we notice much change in them even after he taught them how to pray? Not really: Peter still denied Jesus due to fear. But how was their life after Jesus died and resurrected? Same Peter counted it a thing of honour to be persecuted for the name of Jesus.

I submit it to you today that Peter did that because he had received something later, which he did not have when he denied Jesus - The Holy Spirit dwelling IN him. Not leading him externally.

Children of God do fall into temptation and are not perfect. Was Peter lead by the Holy Spirit who lives in him to distancing himself from the gentiles?

Gal 2:11
No Return to the LawNow when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;


If Peter wasn't led by the Holy Spirit, who led Peter?
Could he be under an influence ?

shadeyinka:

How does God normally speak to His children? Through their spirit!?

Can you also answer this question:
How does Satan speak/tempt people?

My sheep know My voice was what Jesus said. A strangers voice they will not follow.

Could it not be that both God and Satan can use the same communication channel.

Its obvious God seldom speaks to you in dreams does He? Is every dream from God?

If you can discern God voice to you in dreams surely, you will know when an information cannot be from God.

Moreover, Satan's main trick is to try and counterfeit Gods way to men

I can repost your question and ask you: Is every food in the dream from God?
Yes/No!

Can God force-feed a person feaces in the dream?

If this happens in the dream, who is responsible? God!?

First, are we discussing dreams or eating in dreams? I never told you satan does not talk to HIS kids through dreams. If he even feeds them through it, that is his business. Does satan feed God's kids in their dreams? NO.

If he does, what will be his aim? When he feeds his kids what does he aim to achieve - since you know so much about him.

Second, God could speak to his kids any which way he pleases. He could use dreams as scripture is replete with. Same way not all dreams are from him, some are simply from the sub-conscious of a man that creates events based on experiences, fears and expectations and mean diddly squat.

We have authority to "cream our dreams". If I dream that a grade I expected was not what I got - it does not mean the dream came from the devil or God. It does not even matter. I can simply say "satan, that F was for you. I am an A student and I get only As, and that is exactly what such a one will see".

shadeyinka:


Peter was demonized!

You can use an exclamation from now till eternity, you are still preaching patent falsities.

I asked you, when Jesus told same Peter that God had spoken through him, was he also demonised there? Truth is parallel. If yours has failed in another similar setting, it is false.

Look at my context above.

My point was that Satan could try to influence Jesus. But Jesus couldn't be influenced (tempted)

Jesus could be tempted. If he could not, then satan's temptation of him was simulated and God is a liar. Jesus simply did not succumb to the temptation.

Not succumbing to temptation is not overcoming satan. Overcoming satan was taking satan's authority from him over men and mankind.

You are the one mixing it up here.
There was never a time when Jesus did not overcome Satan's will, wiles and temptations.

Did I say otherwise?

You will agree with me that Jesus was temptated by Satan.
Who won? Satan!?
No
It was Jesus, he overcame.

That is the point I am getting across: Who did Jesus overcome? Nobody at this point. Did satan stop having his authority over man after this exchange? no. When did satan lose that authority?

The victory on the cross wasn't because of Jesus. It was because of Man. Whether Jesus died or not He is the Creator, the Head of every principality or power. It wasn't when Jesus died that he became this: He had always been.

Another false teaching. If he already had it, then why did God the father give it to him as referred to in Phil 2:10?

I don't know where you got this!

What did Peter say that Jesus responded to?

I see that you have mixed up some definitions:
To be possessed is just a tiny aspect of demonization.

Thrash.

To be demonized means to be under the influence of demons. It could be transient or persistent.

I agree, depending on what you mean.

Whenever Satan succeeds in influencing me through anything, I have been demonized.

Thrash. So when Paul went to Jerusalem that Agabus and other prophets warned him against, he was demonised?

It is impossible for a Christian (born again) to be possessed . However, a Christian can be demonized.

Bolded is true, the other part is a lie. To be demonised is to be POSSESSED by demons.

I hope you get the difference.

If Satan succeeded in making me list after a lady, I have been demonized. I may not be possessed.

Thrash. The flesh (which the bible correctly refers to as SINFUL flesh) will lust even without satanic influence. That is why we would drop this flesh to enter heaven and still be given a new flesh when Jesus comes. Not every sin is under satan's devices. Every man with a flesh has the same aching to sin. That is why we are to subject the flesh to the spirit .

Only the unregenerated can be possess.

Yes, I agree.

Semantics.
I know the difference between, Power and Authority but you also know that they could be used as synonyms.

Uninspired scholars can, but for such word-based discussions we must flesh it out.

Theory not backed by experience is what I see here. If you have casted out one demon from anyone, I will know that you know what you are saying but if not, you are talking theory.

That is because you don't know who you are talking to. It is because of experiences that we have the mormon church. Someone said Jesus appeared to him and told him him and satan are working together. Did he not see it? Did he not hear voices? Why would you (if you do of course) disagree with him?

After all, casting out demons are the Children's (of the kingdom) bread. Pastor Chris does cast out demons, how about you?(Of course it isn't a mark of spirituality that's why its children's bread)

Again, you know not who you speaketh to.

Children of God do fall into temptation and are not perfect. Was Peter lead by the Holy Spirit who lives in him to distancing himself from the gentiles?

Gal 2:11
No Return to the LawNow when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;

If Peter wasn't led by the Holy Spirit, who led Peter?

His flesh. His fear for his jewish brethren and their laws.

Could he be under an influence ?

Of Satan? foul! Your body has it's own yearnings having been created in sin (by sinful men). Paul tells us by the spirit, that the flesh yearns to satisfy it's own cravings but the recreated human spirit desires another. To subject the flesh, we are to yield to the spirit. If a christian man yields to his flesh he will do wrong. Satan is excluded.

I love this msg...

Maestro21:


First, are we discussing dreams or eating in dreams? I never told you satan does not talk to HIS kids through dreams. If he even feeds them through it, that is his business. Does satan feed God's kids in their dreams? NO.

If he does, what will be his aim? When he feeds his kids what does he aim to achieve - since you know so much about him.

Second, God could speak to his kids any which way he pleases. He could use dreams as scripture is replete with. Same way not all dreams are from him, some are simply from the sub-conscious of a man that creates events based on experiences, fears and expectations and mean diddly squat.

We have authority to "cream our dreams". If I dream that a grade I expected was not what I got - it does not mean the dream came from the devil or God. It does not even matter. I can simply say "satan, that F was for you. I am an A student and I get only As, and that is exactly what such a one will see".

I think you are taking an extreme position not based on reality.
1. Does some of our dreams contain spiritual information's?
2. Do mature Christians sometimes have terrible dreams?
3. Could those terrible dreams be from God?

When a married matured Christian (Pastor) dreams that he is having sex with a choir member,
a. Should he discard the dream as trash?
b. Could such dreams be from God?
c. Could such dreams be from Satan?
d. If the dream is from Satan, what should he do?
e. Is it impossible for a Pastor to have such dreams?

If your point is that it is impossible for one to see what Satan is doing through ones dreams, then, it is impossible for us to reconcile.

Mariangeles:
The enemy is your mind...Satan has no power, it just uses people's fear against them

I agreed with you but not totally, Satan still deal with Atheists who doesn't even believe he exist

Maestro21:


You can use an exclamation from now till eternity, you are still preaching patent falsities.

I asked you, when Jesus told same Peter that God had spoken through him, was he also demonised there? Truth is parallel. If yours has failed in another similar setting, it is false.



Jesus could be tempted. If he could not, then satan's temptation of him was simulated and God is a liar. Jesus simply did not succumb to the temptation.

Not succumbing to temptation is not overcoming satan. Overcoming satan was taking satan's authority from him over men and mankind.



Did I say otherwise?



That is the point I am getting across: Who did Jesus overcome? Nobody at this point. Did satan stop having his authority over man after this exchange? no. When did satan lose that authority?



Another false teaching. If he already had it, then why did God the father give it to him as referred to in Phil 2:10?



What did Peter say that Jesus responded to?



Thrash.



I agree, depending on what you mean.



Thrash. So when Paul went to Jerusalem that Agabus and other prophets warned him against, he was demonised?



Bolded is true, the other part is a lie. To be demonised is to be POSSESSED by demons.

I hope you get the difference.



Thrash. The flesh (which the bible correctly refers to as SINFUL flesh) will lust even without satanic influence. That is why we would drop this flesh to enter heaven and still be given a new flesh when Jesus comes. Not every sin is under satan's devices. Every man with a flesh has the same aching to sin. That is why we are to subject the flesh to the spirit .



Yes, I agree.



Uninspired scholars can, but for such word-based discussions we must flesh it out.



That is because you don't know who you are talking to. It is because of experiences that we have the mormon church. Someone said Jesus appeared to him and told him him and satan are working together. Did he not see it? Did he not hear voices? Why would you (if you do of course) disagree with him?



Again, you know not who you speaketh to.



His flesh. His fear for his jewish brethren and their laws.



Of Satan? foul! Your body has it's own yearnings having been created in sin (by sinful men). Paul tells us by the spirit, that the flesh yearns to satisfy it's own cravings but the recreated human spirit desires another. To subject the flesh, we are to yield to the spirit. If a christian man yields to his flesh he will do wrong. Satan is excluded.

How did Adam and Eve loose their authority?
It was simply by yielding to Satan's promptings and temptations.

That is the didn't overcome Satan's wiles. How simple can understanding this be. Adam and Eve failed.

I see that you still mix up the distinction of demonization with possession. To that, only your dictionary can help you.

demonize
[dee-muh-nahyz]
verb (used with object), de·mon·ized, de·mon·iz·ing.
1. to turn into a demon or make demonlike.
2. to subject to the influence of demons.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/demonize

Subject to the influence of demons is NOT equivalent to Possession.

Possessed from the word possess

possessed
[puh-zest]
adjective
spurred or moved by a strong feeling, madness, or a supernatural power (often followed by by, of, or with):
The army fought as if possessed. The village believed her to be possessed of the devil.
self-possessed; poised.

Phrases
Idiom
possessed of,having; possessing: He is possessed of intelligence and ambition.

Origin of possessed
First recorded in 1525–35; possess + -ed2

1535

Related Forms
adverb: /pəˈzɛs ɪd li, -ˈzɛst li/, zest-lee] zes-id-lee, - uh- [p possessedly
noun: possessedness
adjective: nonpossessed
adjective: unpossessed
Synonyms
see synonyms for possessed

Grammar Greats and Gaffes
Quiz Yourself: Avoid These Common Language Mistakes
I vs. Me
Six Words That Might Ruin Your Sentence
Fighting For or Against Grammar in the Workplace
Their, There, and They’re
I Has a Tittle (So Does J)
Antonyms
see antonyms for possessed
possess
[puh-zes]
verb (used with object)
1. to have as belonging to one; have as property; own:
2 to possess a house and a car.
3. to have as a faculty, quality, or the like:
4. to possess courage.
(of a spirit, especially an evil one) to occupy, dominate, 5 5. or control (a person) from within:
He thought he was possessed by devils.
(of a feeling, idea, etc.) to dominate or actuate in the manner of such a spirit:
He was possessed by envy.
(of a man) to succeed in having sexual intercourse with.
6. to have knowledge of:
7. to possess a language.
8. to keep or maintain (oneself, one's mind, etc.) in a certain state, as of peace, patience, etc.
to maintain control over (oneself, one's mind, etc.).
to impart to; inform; familiarize (often followed by of or with):
9 to possess someone of the facts of the case.
10. to cause to be dominated or influenced, as by an idea, feeling, etc.
11. to make (someone) owner, holder, or master, as of property, information, etc.:
He possessed them of the facts.
12. to seize or take.
13. to gain or win.
14. to occupy or hold.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/demonize

So you see, you have been wrong in the use of these two words.

Seun:
The good part of Pastor Chris is that he wants his sheep to feel good. Unlike the sin preachers who want them to live in the constant fear of hell.

Ignorance there my brother.
As a Christian, except I read the word from things like this post of yours, I hardly think about it.

So why would you assume that something that's so irrelevant as to take less than 0.00001% of my mind time, would be what motivates my faith.

You see, faith and fear and parallels. You can't have both. Got one, you'd lose the other.

First off, Eve had no authority. She was not there when God even gave the instructions. Adam is the one who lost his authority because by OBEYING the devil he relinquished his authority to him. If Adam had simply disobeyed God without satan's promptings he would have "died" but satan would have not gotten the authority. Adam needed to obey satan for satan to get Adam's authority.

Jesus could have turned stone to bread if he wanted to. That was not the issue. The issue was doing it at satan's prompting which he resisted.

shadeyinka:

How did Adam and Eve loose their authority?
It was simply by yielding to Satan's promptings and temptations.

That is the didn't overcome Satan's wiles. How simple can understanding this be. Adam and Eve failed.

I see that you still mix up the distinction of demonization with possession. To that, only your dictionary can help you.



Subject to the influence of demons is NOT equivalent to Possession.

Possessed from the word possess





So you see, you have been wrong in the use of these two words.

Your own very link defeats you. Read number 10*. Be humble.

shadeyinka:


I think you are taking an extreme position not based on reality.
1. Does some of our dreams contain spiritual information's?
2. Do mature Christians sometimes have terrible dreams?
3. Could those terrible dreams be from God?

Do mature christians have minds? If yes, then their subconscious could create "terrible" dreams. It must not be from God or the devil.
Where in scripture did God give his kids terrible dreams? I am not so sure you understand God, dreams or terrible at all. So maybe you should explain what you mean.

When a married matured Christian (Pastor) dreams that he is having sex with a choir member,
a. Should he discard the dream as trash?
b. Could such dreams be from God?
c. Could such dreams be from Satan?
d. If the dream is from Satan, what should he do?
e. Is it impossible for a Pastor to have such dreams?

No, the dream is from the mature christian's mind. Jesus said let no one who lusts attribute it to the devil (paraphrasing). The dream Did not come from God and satan does not have access to a christian's mind. He can only suggest things externally like if pushes a lady to try to seduce the man. But if the man had dreams of such, it did not come from satan or God - it came from the man's flesh. Scriptures are replete with proofs that satan cannot get to a mind that is beyond his jurisdiction. if he could, he would have known exactly where baby Jesus was. See, he tried to use Herod and probability to get Jesus. It was God who used a dream to warn the wise men against danger. That is what God does.

[s]If your point is that it is impossible for one to see what Satan is doing through ones dreams, then, it is impossible for us to reconcile.[/s]

Maestro21:
First off, Eve had no authority. She was not there when God even gave the instructions. Adam is the one who lost his authority because by OBEYING the devil he relinquished his authority to him. If Adam had simply disobeyed God without satan's promptings he would have "died" but satan would have not gotten the authority. Adam needed to obey satan for satan to get Adam's authority.

Jesus could have turned stone to bread if he wanted to. That was not the issue. The issue was doing it at satan's prompting which he resisted.



Your own very link defeats you. Read number 11. Be humble.

Number 11

11. to make (someone) owner, holder, or master, as of property, information, etc.:

This is a correct definition of Possession :
Ownership...
Master...
Property...

You are wrong!

Demonization is being under the influence of demons
Possession is ownership, master, property of demons

Check it up

shadeyinka:


Number 11

This is a correct definition of Possession :
Ownership...
Master...
Property...

You are wrong!

Demonization is being under the influence of demons
Possession is ownership, master, property of demons

Check it up

Read number 10. I meant to type 10. Like I said be humble.

10. to cause to be dominated or influenced, as by an idea, feeling, etc.

Maestro21:


Read number 10. I meant to type 10. Like I said be humble.

Keyword:
dominated

Even then, the examples is about ideas, knowledge etc

But check others out of 12 synonyms,vyou pick one and you are rejoicing. 11 nails it as you have rightly pointed it out.my last post nailed it.

Possession is not the same as demonization

shadeyinka:


Keyword:
dominated

Even then, the examples is about ideas, knowledge etc

But check others out of 12 synonyms,vyou pick one and you are rejoicing. 11 nails it as you have rightly pointed it out.my last post nailed it.

Possession is not the same as demonization

This is laughable.

You are showing that pride is guiding you not the will to learn. The link is your own. The word dominated is not a key word at all. It was used as a variant or synonym for influenced there. The "or" shows it.

Secondly, the examples said ETC which means and so on. Why? because the word being discussed is "possessed". So we can say to be possessed by an idea is to be dominated or influenced by it. To be "possessed" by demons is to be dominated or possessed by demons. Which is the same definition for demonize.

How did we come to this? I said possessed and demonized were the same and you disagreed but your own link has proven you wrong.

It is your own post that nailed you.

Take the correction and be humble.

Maestro21:


This is laughable.

You are showing that pride is guiding you not the will to learn. The link is your own. The word dominated is not a key word at all. It was used as a variant or synonym for influenced there. The "or" shows it.

Secondly, the examples said ETC which means and so on. Why? because the word being discussed is "possessed". So we can say to be possessed by an idea is to be dominated or influenced by it. To be "possessed" by demons is to be dominated or possessed by demons. Which is the same definition for demonize.

How did we come to this? I said possessed and demonized were the same and you disagreed but your own link has proven you wrong.

It is your own post that nailed you.

There are several points you just focused only on one.

I copied the whole variants of dictionary meaning not just the one suited for my argument.

Except if what you are implying is that we throw away eleven shades of meanings because one seems bendable by you.

Thank God this isn't scriptures but English language

shadeyinka:


There are several points you just focused only on one.

I copied the whole variants of dictionary meaning not just the one suited for my argument.

Except if what you are implying is that we throw away eleven shades of meanings because one seems bendable by you.

Thank God this isn't scriptures but English language

To find the meaning of a word, you don't lump all the variants as one meaning. Each of them is treated INDIVIDUALLY.

see Table for example:

ta·ble
ˈtābəl/Submit

1.
a piece of furniture with a flat top and one or more legs, providing a level surface on which objects may be placed, and that can be used for such purposes as eating, writing, working, or playing games.
synonyms:stand, dining table, kitchen table, coffee table; More
2.
a set of facts or figures systematically displayed, especially in columns.
"the population has grown, as shown in table 1"
synonyms:chart, diagram, figure, graph, plan; More
3.
a flat surface, in particular.

4.
US
postpone consideration of.
"I'd like the issue to be tabled for the next few months"
synonyms:postpone, delay, defer, sideline, put on the back burner
"the council tabled the rezoning issue until April"
5.
BRITISH
present formally for discussion or consideration at a meeting.
"an MP tabled an amendment to the bill"

I am not allowed to argue that point 5 has lesser meaning than point 1 for instance. They mean different things.

Be humble.