darkchild64:


undiluted you say

no disrespects,but if anyone is to strictly follow the laws in the old testament such a person would become a murderer,if anyone strictly follows the new testament word for word,undiluted as you say,such s person would be considered insane

p.s have you read the songs of Solomon ?,pls what value does that book add to anyone's life ?

If we follow the book of the law ( old testaments), we wouldn't be Christians. "Who also (Jesus) hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (law), but of the spirit(Jesus' Word): for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" 2corinthians 3:6
Christianity is about the life of Jesus, about truth and grace...that is why it was hard for the Jews to accept the teachings of Jesus Christ, a new life of freedom (they couldn't accept that it was that easy)

Mariangeles:
If we follow the book of the law ( old testaments), we wouldn't be Christians. "Who also (Jesus) hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (law), but of the spirit(Jesus' Word): for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" 2corinthians 3:6
Christianity is about the life of Jesus, about truth and grace...that is why it was hard for the Jews to accept the teachings of Jesus Christ, a new life of freedom (they couldn't accept that it was that easy)

that is not my point,whether you think christians should follow the old testament or abandon it(tithe included),that is not my problem.
You previous post paints the picture that the bible(which includes the old testament) is a good guide to living a worthy life and I am puting it to you that anyone who strictly follows the old testament which can be qualified as the bible would become a murderer,if you disagree it would be my pleasure to start quoting such passages with immediate effect,however the purpose is not to abuse you or your belief but rather to make you see why I don't consider your religious book fit to decide how I should live my life, and I didn't leave the NT out either,like I said before,anyone who strictly follows the NT word for word would be seen as a crazy person,it would be my pleasure to post passages to support these so feel free to indulge me

darkchild64:


that is not my point,whether you think christians should follow the old testament or abandon it(tithe included),that is not my problem.
You previous post paints the picture that the bible(which includes the old testament) is a good guide to living a worthy life and I am puting it to you that anyone who strictly follows the old testament which can be qualified as the bible would become a murderer,if you disagree it would be my pleasure to start quoting such passages with immediate effect,however the purpose is not to abuse you or your belief but rather to make you see why I don't consider your religious book fit to decide how I should live my life, and I didn't leave the NT out either,like I said before,anyone who strictly follows the NT word for word would be seen as a crazy person,it would be my pleasure to post passages to support these so feel free to indulge me

Okay, you're indulged...
Show me from the life of Jesus Christ ( the gospel and the epistles)

darkchild64:


that is not my point,whether you think christians should follow the old testament or abandon it(tithe included),that is not my problem.
You previous post paints the picture that the bible(which includes the old testament) is a good guide to living a worthy life and I am puting it to you that anyone who strictly follows the old testament which can be qualified as the bible would become a murderer,if you disagree it would be my pleasure to start quoting such passages with immediate effect,however the purpose is not to abuse you or your belief but rather to make you see why I don't consider your religious book fit to decide how I should live my life, and I didn't leave the NT out either,like I said before,anyone who strictly follows the NT word for word would be seen as a crazy person,it would be my pleasure to post passages to support these so feel free to indulge me

You might be itchy to start with the issue of tithe, but that would be for another time...

Mariangeles:
You all judge Christians by using the scriptures you know at your convenience, even when you don't believe in them (Seun does that a lot), and that is manipulation... So, by what standard do we judge you since you have neither guide nor principles?
You can't give and not take...

I dont belive in the scriptures but u do... i an using it for u and not for me. It is what u believe in and i am using it to show u that u are not following what u believe in.
Judge me by what is right and what is wrong... even a 10 years old know what is right and wrong. And thats what i live by. Isnt it that simple to understand?

Mariangeles:
We don't preach "believe in God or burn in hell"

It's the same thing bro... believe in God or burn in hell... salvation for ur soul or what? It is right there in ur face no matter how u try to deny it.

We preach salvation for your souls, God's steadfast reassuring love, quietness and assurance forever...
Most times, When I study the bible, I say to myself what's not to love about God When all I learn from God's word is to love and care for people, to be responsible for others and others for me, to always remember to care for widows, orphans, prisoners... Do you know that only mostly Christians remember prisoners apart from their relatives, to bring them Food items, message of hope for their depressed souls...(doesn't that inspire you at all)

U are telling me what Christians should do right and i am showing what they are actually doing. Here they are relegating ahd hating the op dor sayin his own point of view is this act what the so called loving and compassionate God asked u to do? We have gone down 10 pages with the so called loving Christians insisting that the op deserves being hated and relegated. U cannot give out love with one hand and dish put hatred with the other. If u want to be a christians be a Christian. Make the sacrifice and turn the other chick. Thats what is preached... if u cannot turn the other chick stop claiming to be a christian.

Christians are not the only ones who visit prisoners and the needy... there a lot of Ngos that do this and so many atheists do it too... being nice is not a christian thing its a human thing.

How could we have known to that (out of obligation and not of choice) if not for God's Word...
Learn to study the scriptures (undiluted and uninfluenced) for yourselves with an open heart and see for yourselves that loving GOD means loving humanity

U learn to do that because u read the scriptures.. that means without the scriptures u would have been selfish and unkind? Breaking new: that are people who do all that without reading the scriptures or even believing God exist. Such people just see it in their heart to help others just because it is right not because the scriptures asked them to. Do u think these people should be relegated too because they say God does not exist?

Funny u are preaching love but still think the op should be hated and relegated for saying God does not exist who are u decieving?

Mariangeles:
Did you know that before God said " Thou shalt not kill", anybody could kill anybody and it won't be a sin?
So since you are your own god, you do whatever you please and nothing guides you that "this is wrong" ...how do you expect me to feel safe around you? who knows what you might do to me when you're angry...

To u killing is a sin because God said it... to me killing is wrong because i will not be happy if someone kills my son.
God saying its a sin or not does not matter... killing is wrong because it brings about sadness, u dont need any God to know this.
I am the one who will not feel safe around u because u think killing is wrong because u read it in the bible... that's scary... if there was no bible u would have been a killer!!!!!!!

frank317:


It's the same thing bro... believe in God or burn in hell... salvation for ur soul or what? It is right there in ur face no matter how u try to deny it.


U are telling me what Christians should do right and i am showing what they are actually doing. Here they are relegating ahd hating the op dor sayin his own point of view is this act what the so called loving and compassionate God asked u to do? We have gone down 10 pages with the so called loving Christians insisting that the op deserves being hated and relegated. U cannot give out love with one hand and dish put hatred with the other. If u want to be a christians be a Christian. Make the sacrifice and turn the other chick. Thats what is preached... if u cannot turn the other chick stop claiming to be a christian.

Christians are not the only ones who visit prisoners and the needy... there a lot of Ngos that do this and so many atheists do it too... being nice is not a christian thing its a human thing.



U learn to do that because u read the scriptures.. that means without the scriptures u would have been selfish and unkind? Breaking new: that are people who do all that without reading the scriptures or even believing God exist. Such people just see it in their heart to help others just because it is right not because the scriptures asked them to. Do u think these people should be relegated too because they say God does not exist?

Funny u are preaching love but still think the op should be hated and relegated for saying God does not exist who are u decieving?

You words are just mere words, no proof! no guarantee!
You keep going in circles, using my points to your advantage. (you claim to do all that because you saw it in my comment)
Bring an authentic argument, give me good reasons why I should keep company with you as an atheist...I gave you mine ( I live by the Word of GOD)

frank317:


I dont belive in the scriptures but u do... i an using it for u and not for me. It is what u believe in and i am using it to show u that u are not following what u believe in.
Judge me by what is right and what is wrong... even a 10 years old know what is right and wrong. And thats what i live by. Isnt it that simple to understand?

Well...you are not allowed to judge me by the scriptures ( you can only do that if I allow you) I cannot be manipulated...

Mariangeles:
You words are just mere words, no proof! no guarantee!
You keep going in circles, using my points to your advantage. (you claim to do all that because you saw it in my comment)
Bring an authentic argument, give me good reasons why I should keep company with you as an atheist...I gave you mine ( I live by the Word of GOD)

Proof of what do u want exactly


I am not asking to keep anyone's company if you dont have to...the question, will u relegate and hate ur freind or brother because they suddenly start thinking God does not exist and hell is not real?

Mariangeles:
Well...you are not allowed to judge me by the scriptures ( you can only do that if I allow you) I cannot be manipulated...

Breaking new: i dont need ur permissions to quote the bible. Afterall people preach the bible to me without my permission. I think u are a bit over the edge here.

How am i manipulating u? Am i quoting the bible wrongly?

frank317:


Proof of what do u want exactly


I am not asking to keep anyone's company if you dont have to...the question, will u relegate and hate ur freind or brother because they suddenly start thinking God does not exist and hell is not real?

I don't have the ability to hate!
I might be indifferent...If he or she thinks that way without the possibility of changing his or her mind, well...he or she can think it to himself or herself

frank317:


Breaking new: i dont need ur permissions to quote the bible. Afterall people preach the bible to me without my permission. I think u are a bit over the edge here.

How am i manipulating u? Am i quoting the bible wrongly?

You don't need my permission to quote the bible but you definitely need my permission to judge me based on the bible...
It's like prosecuting one according to the constitution of his country, while you are not a citizen of that country, you neither studied nor abide by their law...it doesn't make sense

Mariangeles:
Okay, you're indulged...
Show me from the life of Jesus Christ ( the gospel and the epistles)

very well then let's start but before then let me reiterate the purpose of this exercise, you claim that the bible is a guide to living a good life,and am trying to use that same bible to show you that you're wrong.
We will take it one chapter by the other and the passages I would quote is to prove to you that anyone who strictly follows the new testament word for word would be considered insane


Matthew 5 vs 29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


the funny thing in this passage is that Christians know that this law would be very hard to obey so they claim that Jesus didn't actually mean that we should obey it the way he said it
This law is applicable and is very much literal,but even if I agree with you that this is an analogy(this is not my position but to still prove my point I would agree with you if u claim the law is not to be taken literal) it would still be difficult and unreasonable to obey.
Now let's look at a situation where this law can be seen figuratively and so applied, imagine you have a job and this job takes nearly all your time making it difficult for you to make out time to attend church gatherings and let's assume that it took you a lot of years to get this job and you are aware that giving it up would plunge you back into unemployment considering you have a wife and children to feed,what would you do
Now this is not quite perfect but it is a close resemblance to that command, the job can be compared to your eye or hand since it is very important,the eye which in this case is the job is taking you away from Yahweh,and Jesus is saying you should pluck out such eye meaning you
should leave the job

I can assure you that anyone who chooses to obey Matthew 5 vs 29 in the situation I just described which is tantamount to abandoning the job, would be considered ridiculous even by a christian and only very few Christians if any would do that

darkchild64:


very well then let's start but before then let me reiterate the purpose of this exercise, you claim that the bible is a guide to living a good life,and am trying to use that same bible to show you that you're wrong.
We will take it one chapter by the other and the passages I would quote is to prove to you that anyone who strictly follows the new testament word for word would be considered insane


Matthew 5 vs 29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.


the funny thing in this passage is that Christians know that this law would be very hard to obey so they claim that Jesus didn't actually mean that we should obey it the way he said it
This law is applicable and is very much literal,but even if I agree with you that this is an analogy(this is not my position but to still prove my point I would agree with you if u claim the law is not to be taken literal) it would still be difficult and unreasonable to obey.
Now let's look at a situation where this law can be seen figuratively and so applied, imagine you have a job and this job takes nearly all your time making it difficult for you to make out time to attend church gatherings and let's assume that it took you a lot of years to get this job and you are aware that giving it up would plunge you back into unemployment considering you have a wife and children to feed,what would you do
Now this is not quite perfect but it is a close resemblance to that command, the job can be compared to your eye or hand since it is very important,the eye which in this case is the job is taking you away from Yahweh,and Jesus is saying you should pluck out such eye meaning you
should leave the job

I can assure you that anyone who chooses to obey Matthew 5 vs 29 in the situation I just described which is tantamount to abandoning the job, would be considered ridiculous even by a christian and only very few Christians if any would do that

That scripture does not apply to your illustration...While going to church benefits you, not going does not make you a sinner
That scripture rightly applies to a prostitute, a drug pusher, an armed robber justifying their deeds because of poverty

Mariangeles:
I don't have the ability to hate!
I might be indifferent...If he or she thinks that way without the possibility of changing his or her mind, well...he or she can think it to himself or herself

what do mean by he or she can think it to himself? is this the issue and am askin u?

read the op... do u think its right for Christians around him to make him feel bad for boldly saying he does not believe in God?

read the op... he immediately began to get disturbing messages, his greetings were not returned by some the following day and treating him like he is possessed, they are making him want to leave his community...

my question to u are a loving christian is: do you think what the Christians did to him for voicing his views was right? would u treat ur brother or friend that way for saying such?

frank317:


what do mean by he or she can think it to himself? is this the issue and am askin u?

read the op... do u think its right for Christians around him to make him feel bad for boldly saying he does not believe in God?

read the op... he immediately began to get disturbing messages, his greetings were not returned by some the following day and treating him like he is possessed, they are making him want to leave his community...

my question to u are a loving christian is: do you think what the Christians did to him for voicing his views was right? would u treat ur brother or friend that way for saying such?

I gave you my answer already... they have the right to feel the way they think is right and everybody is responsible for their actions.
I have no right to judge anybody or tell anybody how to act or feel.
I act according to my understanding and I am responsible for my actions! simple!


To the OP: You can't force people to love you and people cannot force you to love them!

Mariangeles:
That scripture does not apply to your illustration...While going to church benefits you, not going does not make you a sinner
That scripture rightly applies to a prostitute, a drug pusher, an armed robber justifying their deeds because of poverty

well in Hebrews 10 vs 25 the bible says that Christians should not neglect the gathering of brethren, any Christian that doesn't go to church neglects the gathering of brethren hence such a person is disobeying Yahweh, and what did Yahweh say about disobedience, he compared it to "witchcraft"

Going by your sentiments, not going to church won't take a person to hell
Going by the bible not going to church is disobedience to Hebrews 10 vs 25,hence it is a sin and can take someone to hell


Any point u make back it up with the bible if u claim that what you are saying is from the bible

Mariangeles:
I gave you my answer already... they have the right to feel the way they think is right and everybody is responsible for their actions.
I have no right to judge anybody or tell anybody how to act or feel.
I act according to my understanding and I am responsible for my actions! simple!


To the OP: You can't force people to love you and people cannot force you to love them!

I am not asking u if u have the right to say yes or now... i am not asking u if u have the right to judge anybody....my question is not on weather the op wants to be loved or not. u seem to be avoiding my question.

I just want ur opinion on this: my question to u are a loving christian is: do you think what the Christians did to him for voicing his views was right? would u treat ur brother or friend that way for saying such?
a simple yes or no with reason will do... dont go preaching to me on who has right or not... nobody asked u that.

darkchild64:


well in Hebrews 10 vs 25 the bible says that Christians should not neglect the gathering of brethren, any Christian that doesn't go to church neglects the gathering of brethren hence such a person is disobeying Yahweh, and what did Yahweh say about disobedience, he compared it to "witchcraft"

Going by your sentiments, not going to church won't take a person to hell
Going by the bible not going to church is disobedience to Hebrews 10 vs 25,hence it is a sin and can take someone to hell


Any point u make back it up with the bible if u claim that what you are saying is from the bible

There are subjects I just can't share or discuss with you since you're not a Christian and you don't relate... things about Faith, Sin, The Church, etc.
I am not even supposed to argue with you on these things 'cause we can never agree ...2 Timothy 2:14

frank317:


I am not asking u if u have the right to say yes or now... i am not asking u if u have the right to judge anybody....my question is not on weather the op wants to be loved or not. u seem to be avoiding my question.

I just want ur opinion on this: my question to u are a loving christian is: do you think what the Christians did to him for voicing his views was right? would u treat ur brother or friend that way for saying such?
a simple yes or no with reason will do... dont go preaching to me on who has right or not... nobody asked u that.

If you don't like me preaching to you then forget it...not all answers are simply Yes or No!

frank317:


I am not asking u if u have the right to say yes or now... i am not asking u if u have the right to judge anybody....my question is not on weather the op wants to be loved or not. u seem to be avoiding my question.

I just want ur opinion on this: my question to u are a loving christian is: do you think what the Christians did to him for voicing his views was right? would u treat ur brother or friend that way for saying such?
a simple yes or no with reason will do... [s]dont go preaching to me on who has right or not... nobody asked u that.[/s]

...and your comment oozes rudeness and aggressiveness, and that I do not tolerate!
I give you audience does not mean you should abuse it...a typical characteristics of an atheist
It ends right here!

Mariangeles:
There are subjects I just can't share or discuss with you since you're not a Christian and you don't relate... things about Faith, Sin, The Church, etc.
I am not even supposed to argue with you on these things 'cause we can never agree ...2 Timothy 2:14

I agree with you in a way,most of these arguments are unnecessary but when they often come up is when you Christians imply that without the bible no one can live a good life,I would always defend my position that the bible is a very poor standard for me and I do not regard it as a special book

darkchild64:


I agree with you in a way,most of these arguments are unnecessary but when they often come up is when you Christians imply that without the bible no one can live a good life,I would always defend my position that the bible is a very poor standard for me and I do not regard it as a special book

I think atheist are the most unreasonable.
They find it very, very offensive when Christians express their Faith...
For example, I made a comment on a topic on nairaland according to my Faith, the next thing, someone quoted with the words "you are mad", I was shocked and amused at the same time.
At that moment, I felt pity for that person knowing that he must be going through major issues to have reacted that way to someone he doesn't know...
Those words came from an empty, depressed soul!

Mariangeles:
...and your comment oozes rudeness and aggressiveness, and that I do not tolerate!
I give you audience does not mean you should abuse it...a typical characteristics of an atheist
It ends right here!

Imagine? Rudeness and aggressivness?

Is this a cop out trick?

Why did u go talking about peoples right to love or not and the op forcing people to love him? Isnt it rude of u to answer my question with a completely unrelated answer?
Pls whats rude and aggressive abiut telling u that u answer is not what i asked u. Are u not the one frustrating me with giving me unrelated answers?

U see what am talking about? U freely preach how loving u and yahweh are even to ur enemies yet a simple on how christians are treating some with a different view on the existence of God u can give me a simple answer... it has turn to jamb question... now am rude... this could probably why am yet to see a loving Christian despite all their preachings

Carry ur wahala go jare

Mariangeles:
I think atheist are the most unreasonable.
They find it very, very offensive when Christians express their Faith...
For example, I made a comment on a topic on nairaland according to my Faith, the next thing, someone quoted with the words "you are mad", I was shocked and amused at the same time.
At that moment, I felt pity for that person knowing that he must be going through major issues to have reacted that way to someone he doesn't know...
Those words came from an empty, depressed soul!

You've got any proof the person that called you mad is an atheist other than your suspicions? is there a post he/she made on Nairaland calling him/herself an atheist?

I've made a little research on the monicker that called you mad "Basil.joe" and I checked his posts on this section yet found nowhere he ever claimed to be "atheist"

CuteMadridista:


You've got any proof the person that called you mad is an atheist other than your suspicions? is there a post he/she made on Nairaland calling him/herself an atheist?

I've made a little research on the monicker that called you mad "Basil.joe" and I checked his posts on this section yet found nowhere he ever claimed to be "atheist"

I don't remember his monicker.
All I know is that I looked through his previous comments and I wasn't surprised at all...they never disappoint

Mariangeles:
I think atheist are the most unreasonable.
They find it very, very offensive when Christians express their Faith...
For example, I made a comment on a topic on nairaland according to my Faith, the next thing, someone quoted with the words "you are mad", I was shocked and amused at the same time.
At that moment, I felt pity for that person knowing that he must be going through major issues to have reacted that way to someone he doesn't know...
Those words came from an empty, depressed soul!

U are the one accusing atheists wrongly here. Atheists dont find it offensive when christians preach. They just disagree.
The funny thing is how u guys easily call anyone who disagrees with u offensive.
Christians are the ones who hate atheists for challenging their beliefs.

Mariangeles:
I think atheist are the most unreasonable.
They find it very, very offensive when Christians express their Faith...
For example, I made a comment on a topic on nairaland according to my Faith, the next thing, someone quoted with the words "you are mad", I was shocked and amused at the same time.
At that moment, I felt pity for that person knowing that he must be going through major issues to have reacted that way to someone he doesn't know...
Those words came from an empty, depressed soul!

well you can't judge atheists using the behaviour of one,after all the only thing all atheists have in common is their disbelief in " God" every other thing can vary,by the way I never said you shouldn't express your faith all I'm saying is that you recognize the fact that I can choose to be a Christian or not,and I don't have any business with Christianity,if you don't have an issue with that then I don't have an issue with you

darkchild64:


well you can't judge atheists using the behaviour of one,after all the only thing all atheists have in common is their disbelief in " God" every other thing can vary,by the way I never said you shouldn't express your faith all I'm saying is that you recognize the fact that I can choose to be a Christian or not,and I don't have any business with Christianity,if you don't have an issue with that then I don't have an issue with you

The person that called him mad never said he's an atheist, its just another case of assuming and then making conclusion based on the assumption

Whoever counters/rejects/argues against Christian belief is automatically branded an atheist by them

ScienceWatch:
I did not want waste my time to reply to you fully, but for the sake of genuine truth seekers I will explain something you say you, you wasted your time going to church. I also broke away because of that. But the difference between you and I is that I choose to find help to confirm my doubts.

What I found was that I was attending a CHURCH were the leaders/pastors were not connected to the Holy Spirit. They wrongly chose those positions which JESUS reserved for spiritually anointed men and women of God.

What I learned from the Holy GOSPELS was that those that have the gift to evangelize/teach the GOSPELS must never claim positions of pastorship, they must remain teachers until they are spiritually initiated by the Holy Spirit.

Thousands of pastors are fake and that effects the faith of innocent believers because they never witness the true mind blowing power of the GOSPELS.

Sir, you are very right. I will always say this: religion "produce" atheist.

darkchild64:


well you can't judge atheists using the behaviour of one,after all the only thing all atheists have in common is their disbelief in " God" every other thing can vary,by the way I never said you shouldn't express your faith all I'm saying is that you recognize the fact that I can choose to be a Christian or not,and I don't have any business with Christianity,if you don't have an issue with that then I don't have an issue with you

He has an issue with u being an atheist... i have asking if it is right to relegate atheiats and his inability to answer simply means christians shouls be loving but not to atheists.
I grew up in the north and its far easisr to live with a muslim and a christian. Christians are the worst... so hypocritical. Appearing like gentle sheep but worst than the devil himself. Their weapon is psychological... making u hate urself for not being with them.. thats why i give it to them whenever they bring it on