HNIC:

I will only make predictions when the transfer window closes

Arsenal transfer window is closed already. Unless somebody want to leave otherwise nobody is coming in again.

Am a gunner and i wish them the best always expecially when we got so many anti Arsenal here but reaistically we all know the strenght and weakness of our team. We havent solved our injury problems and even if we buy 5 Vidic's, the issues of defending hasnt been solve.

My bet with dudu can be rethoric

Hate me if you like but its my opinion.

debosky:

You're really taking the piss here. . . . being in the squad to gain experience is NOT the same thing as starting against Liverpool with a depleted midfield. How can you justify such a daft move?

He is in the squad to fill a role, not necessarily start. In the end he was taken off for Rozzi, didn't that prove that he didn't HAVE to start?  

It is not a matter of Wilshere being ashamed of his performance - young players make mistakes and that is normal. The issue here is a wrong decision by the gaffer - Wilshere's introduction should be one in relative comfort so he can learn and improve, not one where he could possibly be facing a backlash if we lost the game.

It is the height of naivety to think that all your players are competent to play any game, that is why you have a first 11 and back ups - all the back ups will never be as good as your first choices unless you are Chelski at the height of money madness or Citeh. Evidence shows our back ups are clearly NOT as good as the first 11, as our catastrophic losses at the back end of last season proved.

Well said! spot on.

Anybody who follows Arsenal not just from a supporters view but a tactical and analytical view would see this easily and that is why iw ould fault AW on this one.

Diaby, Bendtnerand Denillson are all just ok players as far as im concerned, And for your FIRST Eleven, you need more than ok players.

When any of your starting xi gets injured and you need to reshufle the pack, then these types of player may be called upon to fill in the gaps except you are Mancity, Chelsea or Real where you can replace a 40million buy eith a 35million buy or another 40 million one.

I can understand the excuse for not making such byes throughout a couple of seasons, but what is happening now, Does Aw want to tell me that there is no money or does he not see any need for a World class Goalie and CB right now, ? Does he still believe diaby( a player imho is of low quality given the number of seasons he has had in the first team) can stand the pressure when we face stronger opposition(no disrespect to Liverpool oh!)

I love Arsenal Fc with a passion but as a football analyst, some of AW's desicions are horribly wrong, Imagine him saying bendtner would help us in our title campaing last season only to turn around and say he regretted not buying an extra striker in january,

Lets be sincere here, AW is already getting it wrong again and until some drastic descisions are made, it may just be another trophyless season.

Lets even know his agenda on what trophy is main priority is this season and see how he intends to approach games concerning such, at least Mark Hughes focused primarily on the Carling cup when he was in charge of city and we saw how he approached those games,

dipo2much:

1) even if we get a gd CB and goalie,  In contrast to what a gooner posted,i dont think a trophy is guaranteed (at this stage in the season) even if we hav an additional CB and keeper. Who could hav foretold that liverpool would have a season as bad as they did at the initial stages of last season? At least they finishd 2nd a not-too-far season and had a better squad than we have at arsenal now. And assuming chelski n manure are 'perfect' manager and team-wise. can both teams win d league? I think if we get a good CB and goalie,we are only makin ourselves better 'contenders' as are chelski and manure.

I never said we would definitely win the league, I said I would bet £150 if we get an extra CB and bet £300 if we get a GK in addition, with the odds being given for arsenal winning the league, I think its a worthwhile risk considering the strength of the squad and I'm not even usually a betting man.

As to Liverpool having a better squad 2 seasons ago than we have at Arsenal right now, I strongly disagree, this present Arsenal squad is stronger than most people think it is, without Cesc, Song and RVP for most of the game and an out of sorts Arshavin we went to Anfield and gave them a game. A friend predicted that Arsenal would start slowly this season and his prediction seems to be spot on.

A-40:

I am not his PR manager but i get irked when you single him out for criticism every damn time even when its clear there are a lot of sub-par players at Arsenal. Mr Diaby had a stinker but as usual Duduspace was conspicuously mute on that. I am sure if it where Theo that gifted Liverpool that opener you would have JF.Killed him on this thread

Firstly, I don't criticise Theo everytime, I did say on this same thread that he had an okay game when he played for the 3 lions last week, it is however my opinion that he is the worst attacking player in the Arsenal squad, I need no other proof than the fact that Eboue a converted RB is starting ahead of him as a RWF, if the only place he can make an impact is when played centrally then I dont think he is good enough for us and he is taking a place in the squad that a more able player should be.

How exactly can you say that Diaby had a stinker on Saturday? he is an holding player FFS and arsenal had 64% possesion what more could you ask for? he wasn't to blame for the goal we conceded, everyone knows it was upfront in the final third we had issues with an out of sorts Arshavin and Eboue being effectively checkmated by Agger, now it is you who is looking biased against Diaby if you can come on here and say he had a stinker against liverpool. If you take your Theo tinted glasses off, and put his run against liverpool in the UCL aside we'll be able to discuss the merits and demerits of each player sensibly.

A-40:

Judging from the last 5 trophyless seasons its hard to say this manager knows what he is doing! He was part and parcel of the shambolic midfield that could not dominate proceedings in the middle luckily Wenger spotted that
Me i wan know the optimistic Igbo wey Duduspace dey smoke i might consider going back to smoking because of that

Judging from 12 years of continuous UCL participation, it is hard to say this manager doesn't know what he is doing, players can be removed for whatever reasons, fatigue, tactics e.t.c. so subbing Wilshere might not have much to do with his performance on the day. Arshavin played much worse and was left on the pitch.

Debosky:

He is in the squad to fill a role, not necessarily start. In the end he was taken off for Rozzi, didn't that prove that he didn't HAVE to start?

didn't see this initially Debo, what are you on about here? are you now saying that taking a player off in a game means he should not have started? what happened to subbing due to fatigue or changing tactics?

He was played because he was better than Rosicky during pre-season, for all we know maybe that has lit up a fire under Rosicky's backside. Whatever the reason, he fully justified his manager's belief in him and it bodes well for the future of the club that we have an 18 year old we are not afraid of playing anywhere in a league match.

The manager didn't loan him out because he believed he was ready to compete for a first team shirt, when did competing for a first team shirt include not playing at Anfield?

NEW IMPROVED WISE SAYING

If champions league were pre-season, arsenal will win.

@ Dudu

Let's move on - I maintain there was no reason to play Wilshere in a game of this magnitude, and his error almost cost us 3 points. While it wasn't catastrophic and Wilshere did ok, it was not necessary.

The key issue here is now securing the CB(s) and GK we need.

Wilshere in an already depleted midfield made no sense, the difference was SONG!

I would remind u all dat I posited we arent also ok in d striking position. . .U need in a top 4 team a goal banger not all the wannabes in our team.

Chamakh would rather pass the ball back like Mikel than shoot, he seems to be only useful at set pieces so the dude clamouring for GIBBS and Rozzi are right.

hell yea [img]http://s05.flagcounter.com/count/1Jx/bg=FFFFFF/txt=FFFFFF/border=FFFFFF/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=3/labels=0/[/img]

debosky:

@ Dudu

Let's move on - I maintain there was no reason to play Wilshere in a game of this magnitude, and his error almost cost us 3 points. While it wasn't catastrophic and Wilshere did ok, it was not necessary.

The key issue here is now securing the CB(s) and GK we need.

I second you on this, our only point of departure is if it is Arsene's fault if we get one or not. If we don't get one, it will be because a deal couldn't be agreed and I personally don't believe Arsene should carry the can for that, that would be a direct result of our financial prudence policy. I found this statement from Arsene very interesting.

[Quote]"You said to me that Manchester City invests over £100 million and us £8 million and if we do not win the title it is a scandal! You have to accept that the league is at a high level and it isn’t as easy as it looks."[/quote]

From this statement, I can deduce that we likely bought Koscielny for around 8m, I don't know how much we made from selling Dudu but I would think some of that would go towards buying Schwarzer and the CB. I still believe we will get at least a CB in before the window closes.

The fact that we put in an offer for Schwarzer as early as May but haven't tied down a deal till now, took so long to bring in Koscielny and taking so long to bring in the extra CB tells me it is all monetary issues, I told you a long time ago since the Arshavin saga that we are counting our pennies, I find it hard to understand why most fans can't comprehend this.

This is the one point where most Arsenal fans including yourself have refused to face up to reality, if this squad is going to make it, it will be mostly from organic growth within and not how much we spend or don't spend to bring in players, that is the singular reason we're investing so much in youth.
Now you've got someone promising Alardyce 100m on bringing in players if he buys Blackburn, making it even tougher if anyone intended to compete based on money alone, I am glad we developed our academy.

I dont understand what Dudu means by organic growth from within, does that apply to Vermeleaen ? Arshavin ?
Why should AW descend as low as discussing and comparing us with MAN CITEH ?

Dr Kitaun:

I dont understand what Dudu means by organic growth from within, does that apply to Vermeleaen ? Arshavin ?
Why should AW descend as low as discussing and comparing us with MAN CITEH ?

Money talks Dr. Kit, whether people acknowledge it or not. Even pointing out the 2 players you've mentioned, how good is Arshavin playing now? the way most people talk, its like we need 11 Arshavins/Vermaelen types but no way can the club pay for that like City or Chelsea back in the day.

The only club that has gotten a very fine blend of experience and youth is Manure and they still outspent us doing it by a lot more (it is interesting to note that they still outspent us in the ongoing transfer window even though, they also seem to be going down the youth/untested player route nowadays).
Money gives you the complete player here and now while a youth policy needs time and has a larger degree of uncertainty associated with it.

The fact that we are depending on one or 2 buys to win the PL suggests to me that the balance isn't right if (as Kos's scare showed) injury can easily deprive you of that prized asset in a second, the likes of Manure and chelsea have won the league not by depending on any one player but strength in depth which they have mostly bought.

Arsenal have taken a different route to develop that strength in depth which is why we've been trophyless for so long (it is interesting to note that out of a squad of 26 players in the first team player profiles on Arsenal.com 15 players have been with Arsenal prior to their 18th birthday with most of them still under 25) with each passing year we get better because even without buying, these players get better with experience and that is the organic growth I'm referring to.  It is rational to expect Song to be better than last year, also Denilson considering the strides Diaby took last year between 22 and 23, even if you don't believe they can improve, at least they were good enough for 3rd place and would make good squad members, we also have Wilshere now with a half season of league experience whom Arsene is comfortable enough to play at Anfield on opening day of the season, and also JET whom you seem to like, now convince me that is not organic growth.

It is wrong to say Denilson is not good enough at 21, even as poor my opinion is of Theo I still refrain from saying he won't make it. The truth is, to replace this players with quality better than them which will last will require much more than spending a paltry 10m per transfer window or even the 16m the club had to string together to get Arshavin when UCL participation seemed in jeopardy.

A lot of people on here questioned my insistence on Arsene pursuing a youth policy last season by referring to the likes of Silvestre, Gallas and Sol but where are they now?  and how much were they bought for again? total sum is the 750K paid for Silvestre. Those players should be seen for what they are, stop gap measures, anyone still waiting for Arsenal to go and spend big is prolly supporting the wrong club.

duduspace:

I second you on this, our only point of departure is if it is Arsene's fault if we get one or not. If we don't get one, it will be because a deal couldn't be agreed and I personally don't believe Arsene should carry the can for that, that would be a direct result of our financial prudence policy. I found this statement from Arsene very interesting.

It will be SQUARELY Arsene's fault. He's had since May to solve this problems, so excuse me if I don't buy the lame excuse that he couldn't buy. He spent the summer commentating at the WC, while he could have used that time to secure deals among others - there is NO EXCUSE.

From this statement, I can deduce that we likely bought Koscielny for around 8m, I don't know how much we made from selling Dudu but I would think some of that would go towards buying Schwarzer and the CB. I still believe we will get at least a CB in before the window closes.

Koko came in for 8.5m pounds, but we obviously have more than 8m to spend for crying out loud - it should NOT be an excuse for not signing.

Now you've got someone promising Alardyce 100m on bringing in players if he buys Blackburn, making it even tougher if anyone intended to compete based on money alone, I am glad we developed our academy.

No one is saying don't develop the academy - failure to buy IN ADDITION to the academy rubbishes the whole thing. It's like building a house - erecting walls is a good thing, as that forms the basis of the structure, but it will be sheer idiocy to say because I've built walls I won't put a roof over the structure and be content you have a house.

Forget all this talk about 'organic growth' - it is a fallacy. While some growth will come from within, Wenger's clear deficiencies will inevitably make it come short. We can't coach CBs, neither can we produce GKs, so we will ALWAYS rely on purchases to fill those roles.

The organic growth hasn't delivered in 5 years and will only become MORE DIFFICULT to do given the influx of money into the game.

There is one key piece of information you miss about Wenger - he is an idealist

What motivates me is an ideal of thinking about how football should be. And to try to get near this way of playing. And to try to improve all aspects of my personality that can help me get near this ideal way of playing football.


He is pursuing an ideal way of playing football. . . .even if a player will meet the need of plugging the defensive gaps, if he doesn't fit into the 'ideal mould' Wenger will by pass the player. He can't teach defence, but he is interested only in defenders who can play the ball out, not the types who will simply get rid of the ball and keep clean sheets game after game.

This is the greatest flaw - by being too idealist, he fails to make any buys that don't fit into his ideal and keeps us in a fairytale world of hoping, but this dream/hope is unattainable without pragmatism.

That ruthless pragmatism is what Wenger has likely lost - he has won trophies with pragmatism, including many FA cups so he's no longer interested in that. He now wants to do it in the 'ideal' way, and appears to be unwilling to modify that approach. If I am right on this reading, he won't win another trophy with arsenal till he leaves, but he will keep us near the top.

presido1:

Arsenal transfer window is closed already. Unless somebody want to leave otherwise nobody is coming in again.

Naah, wait and see who and who will complete this team

Judging from 12 years of continuous UCL participation, it is hard to say this manager doesn't know what he is doing, players can be removed for whatever reasons, fatigue, tactics e.t.c. so subbing Wilshere might not have much to do with his performance on the day. Arshavin played much worse and was left on the pitch

I find it odd when a clubside thinks 12 CL participation with only one final appearance is some form of success. I think Porto has even been more sucesul than that, they at least won

debosky:

That ruthless pragmatism is what Wenger has likely lost - he has won trophies with pragmatism, including many FA cups so he's no longer interested in that. He now wants to do it in the 'ideal' way, and appears to be unwilling to modify that approach. If I am right on this reading, he won't win another trophy with arsenal till he leaves, but he will keep us near the top.

Fair enough Arsene has his ideals, I've never seen a successful individual without some sort of idea or masterplan he takes towards it, do you really think Arsene will lose his pragmatism at this age? even you who is younger are you not mostly set in your ways? If Arsene was set in his ways already when he won those trophies earlier, why the sudden change?

Pray, did the whole Arsenal board also lose this pragmatism at the same time as Arsenal did? or why on earth did you think they renewed his contract earlier than usual this time? why exactly does the loss of this pragmatism align squarely with an improvement in the financial fortunes of the club?

If there is any ideal you can accuse Arsene off, it is the ideal that a footballing club should not live beyond its means, with what I see happening at Liverpool and has happened at Portsmouth, I don't see anything wrong in such an ideal.

The difference between Arsenal and Aston Villa is that our board members are not creaming off the money the club makes but reinvesting it, MON obviously could see that Randy Lerner was taking money out of the club which is why he left, cos he wouldn't carry the can if performance dropped. If you need more info about the financial muck in most of the PL clubs a couple of Untold Arsenal articles would show you all.

dayokanu:

I find it odd when a clubside thinks 12 CL participation with only one final appearance is some form of success. I think Porto has even been more sucesul than that, they at least won

Na you know, I know who is rated higher in Europe between Arsenal and Porto right now.

duduspace:

Fair enough Arsene has his ideals, I've never seen a successful individual without some sort of idea or masterplan he takes towards it, do you really think Arsene will lose his pragmatism at this age? even you who is younger are you not mostly set in your ways? If Arsene was set in his ways already when he won those trophies earlier, why the sudden change?

He has completed his previous project - winning the league unbeaten. His latest obsession is to win the league with a team he's grown:

I build a team, and we compensate by creating a style of play, by creating a culture at the club because the boy comes in at 16 or 17 and when they go out they have a supplement of soul, of love for the club, because they have been educated together. The people you meet at college from 16 to 20, often those are the relationships in life that keep going. That, I think, will give us strength that other clubs will not have

That is his vision now - this has been his vision since winning the title in 2004 and he will stubbornly pursue it till the bitter end.

Pray, did the whole Arsenal board also lose this pragmatism at the same time as Arsenal did? or why on earth did you think they renewed his contract earlier than usual this time? why exactly does the loss of this pragmatism align squarely with an improvement in the financial fortunes of the club?

With due respect, the Arsenal board is NOT pragmatic. They are conservative to the core and abhor risk taking. The pragmatists on that board were Edelman (who helped build the stadium) and David Dein - the other guys are simply content for things to tick over, which is why they will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER fire Wenger unless he chooses to leave himself, or if the fans turn against him completely.

They see themselves as custodians of the history of the club and so will never be pragmatists like Dein and Edelman were.

With all due respect debo, with dein we will still be at highbury. Tbh I feel we would have won more but then usmanov will be abrahamovic. It is not in itself a criticism, just depends on your interpretation of what arsenal is.
And baba ijebu is not obsessed with winning with kids. Like ivan said they coulda gone out and satisified the fans cravings but no one will be thankin them in the near future. Methinks he wants to live forever and the best way to do that is to build a lasting legacy.
The problem with wenger is this: he hasn't won nothing in a while. People are forevr divided in their opinion concerning any decision he makes and both sides will argue vehemently that theirs is the opinion which shows why wenger hasn't won anything in 5 years.

Now the time has come to put your money where your mouth is. If you want an opportunity to have a say in how Arsenal is run go and see details at www.arsenalfanshare.com . Hope to jam some of y'all there in the not so distant future particulary Debo. Its an initiative of the Arsenal Supporter's Trust to get arsenal fans into the ownership of the club, if you don't like the old babas then buy them out and have a Barca kind of model.

As amy lawrence said, last time the fans decided what happened in the premiership newcastle went down.
Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true, selah

slimshay:

With all due respect debo, with dein we will still be at highbury. Tbh I feel we would have won more but then usmanov will be abrahamovic. It is not in itself a criticism, just depends on your interpretation of what arsenal is.

Dein fully supported the building of the Emirates and was instrumental to it – the difference is that he believed bringing in Stan Kroenke would take the club to the next level, enabling us to compete with Abramovich and the Glazers. Despite all the hatred towards Dein, we’re now 25% owned by Kroenke.

And baba ijebu is not obsessed with winning with kids. Like ivan said they coulda gone out and satisified the fans cravings but no one will be thankin them in the near future. Methinks he wants to live forever and the best way to do that is to build a lasting legacy.

The way to live forever is to create something new – to defeat the latest ‘evil’ – excessive cash.

The problem with wenger is this: he hasn't won nothing in a while. People are forevr divided in their opinion concerning any decision he makes and both sides will argue vehemently that theirs is the opinion which shows why wenger hasn't won anything in 5 years.

But what is clear is we haven’t. . . .with certain flaws continuously appearing:

1. Over-reliance on youth
2. Mass sell offs without adequate replacements
3. Stubborn age policy
4. Failure to fill obvious gaps

slimshay:

As amy lawrence said, last time the fans decided what happened in the premiership newcastle went down.
Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true, selah

Me I dey go buy o, Arsenal is a cash cow and with the stadium debt almost paid will make even more money. The sharesave scheme is being done by Equiniti who also handle the sharesaving scheme at my place of work. Now, I will become even more pro Wenger cos I'll want maximum ROI on my investment.  

It seems the sole purpose of Arsenal fan thread is to discuss Wenger's frugality.

Una no get different topic to discuss?

debosky:

Dein fully supported the building of the Emirates and was instrumental to it – the difference is that he believed bringing in Stan Kroenke would take the club to the next level, enabling us to compete with Abramovich and the Glazers. Despite all the hatred towards Dein, we’re now 25% owned by Kroenke.

Definitely not, he wanted us to lease Wembley. The board obviously had no problem with Kroenke, it was the way DD went about it that was all wrong. He sold out behind the other member's back, I don't know about you but I believe multi ownership is the best. Yes Abramovic might have given Chelsea their golden years but I personally don't believe that is how to build something that lasts. The Glazer wahala and Gillet& Hicks also do not make sole ownership buyouts appealing in any way, what fans forget is that there is no free lunch, someone somewhere is paying.

debosky:

But what is clear is we haven’t. . . .with certain flaws continuously appearing:
1. Over-reliance on youth
2. Mass sell offs without adequate replacements
3. Stubborn age policy
4. Failure to fill obvious gaps

1. Our youth won't remain youth forever, and the quality produced gets better by the day.
2. There is a reversing of the trend with Cesc.
3. You have a point here, but Arsene has shown that if a player produces, he can at least think of making exception to that policy
4. I would also agree you have a point here if we don't get another CB, my mind is not made up on the GK and like I said above, I still wouldn't lay the blame solely with Arsene but yes he would be largely culpable.

Ibime:

It seems the sole purpose of Arsenal fan thread is to discuss Wenger's frugality.

Una no get different topic to discuss?

That's the issue till the window closes. . . .then we'll be talking about his selection and formation peccadilloes.

On a funny note, I hear young boys is giving Tottenham a hiding, already 2-nil up. 

sorry I had to modify the post, it is now 3-0.  They thot it was easy playing in the UCL.

Harry's jowls must be gleaming red now.