Hello,

Can someone brief me on what's happening with preorders and alleged scams?

Thanks.

Lies and Deceit.

No pun intended -

why will anyone pre order a car that is far in America or somewhere when you can take your money, go around town and buy better cars with you checking the engine and all?

@labiyemmy:

No pun intended -

why will anyone pre order a car that is far in America or somewhere when you can take your money, go around town and buy better cars with you checking the engine and all?

That is why it is Pre-Order. You pay money before a car is shipped to you over the internet and balance it when it arrives

but I agree with you @labiyemmy Its not advisable to do such when you can go to Apapa or car shops and buy your ride Cash and Carry 

Two guys have been duped

1st guy N1.5m
2 guy N500K

N2m gone in the air, all in the name of Pre-order?

but there are honest guys in the business,whose reputation is high in the society.Seun some will change the topic to Pre-Order your gate way to jolly jolly.

Me, I can not release my 1p for a good i have not seen physically. except on the internet, and it must have a limit- to release 1.5m to a seller you have never seen and a good you have not seen physically, is to say the least, very surprising.

A CLEAN GREEN COLOUR PEUGEOT 406 IS AVAILABLE FOR SALE AT KUBWA ,ABUJA,

INTERESTED PERSONS SHOULD CALL 08076183593.

THANKS

farobat:

A CLEAN GREEN COLOUR PEUGEOT 406 IS AVAILABLE FOR SALE AT KUBWA ,ABUJA,

INTERESTED PERSONS SHOULD CALL 08076183593.

THANKS

Good for anybody scammed. Most of those dealers are not credible, they tend to hide their details making it difficult for potential buyers to take a hold of something.

@seun,
the pre-order business is not unique to nairaland. people have been buying items through the internet since the advent of www. like in every venture, there are bound to be genuine individuals and also fraudsters. what is happening here is that a few bad eggs are trying to tarnish the good image of the honest guys.


@labiyemmy,
i understand your skeptism, but things are not as bad as you think. personally i've been a beneficiary of the pre-order business through one of our respected dealers here in the autos section:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-409061.99999.html#bot

i met inspired through this forum and all our dealings have been more than 80% online. no scam, no duping. what i see was what i got. his driver personally delivered that vehicle that you saw in the link and as i write, the highlander is here with me live in warri.

i think people who want to be dishonest will still be dishonest whether the business is done online or not.

i have a friend who went to cotonou to buy a car and that vehicle never reached its destination before breaking down. so what are talking about?

Emperoh:

Seun

I really do not think this is worth your attention at the moment.
The accuser is yet to come out to paint a very clear picture of what happened to him and how he was defrauded
even though the accused is no longer seen on Nairaland and is being alleged to have re-appeared with another user-name.

As long as these things are not clear, there is practically nothing to investigate or act about.
This site is not new to scandals and this will never be the last. I just hope genuine members like us are not affected.
People like Inspired_M who went thru these sort of smear campaign have come out better equipped.
So let the accused and accuser come up with their case if there is any. At the moment, there is nothing of substance to hold on to.

Labiyemi
I wouldn't really denigrate your opinion but i also wouldn't want to agree with you that everything done on the www. or anything bought without being seen is fraud. Cos this is what you intend to portray by your comment. Nevertheless, if you intend to find out how these things work,
why not find time to visit either of Inspired_M, Me or German007 who are resident full time in Nigeria and find out how these things work?

If we have been able to create an avenue where we can do auto business as this, why can't we take it a step further and investigate the credibility of those involved. I for one won't go into something i can't do and also scared of having someone chase my arse around for fraud!!
I have an image and won't do anything to tarnish it.

Pre-order arrangements are not just cheaper, you get clean vehicles and also a larger option of getting what exactly you want.
Roadside dealers why not being totally wrong cannot be compared to Pre-order. At the roadside, you are the mercy of lemons being sold to you to to other levels of fraud being perpetuated. U also cannot discern between normal import to Cotonou lemons and whole lot of nonsense these guys do. If you think i am lying, pls take a trip to Berger, price a car, and get the chasis for us. Then you can see for yourself.
There however still honest ones amongst them.

Nevertheless, there are dishonest and fraudulent people in all human endeavours.
Try and confirm the credibility of whomever you are dealing with. Confirm their residence and business officers if need be.
We can't keep living in dis-trust of one another. Find things our for yourself!!

I rest my case!!

Well said. I have bought a vehicle on Nairaland, and the seller (not a dealer) showed photographs of another that is yet to come in. I visited 2 weeks after and saw the vehicle which someone from Nairaland was also interested in.

It is just about knowing who to do business with. Many just want what is too good to be true.

@emperoh,
i couldn't agree more with you about the pre-order prices being cheaper than regular purchase and carry. besides, unlike cotonou or berger cars where you don't know the history of what your buying, in the pre-order business every car can be traced to it's last oil change date. this and many more was why i went that route.

my colleagues here were incredulous when i told them i spent so much on a car that i only saw advertised on the internet but i reminded them that even your best friend eating daily on the same plate with you will still defraud you if he wants to. i know because i been a victim once.

like i said before, people will be dishonest regardless whether your dealing with them online or not. and people who are honest will remain honest irrespective of which medium they're transacting business.

the berger guys and cotonou dealers have been implicated in fraudulent deals in the past. what you see shaded in their showrooms are mostly salvaged cars that they refurbish and sell to unsuspecting customers. that is why my friend's car from cotonou never made it to its destination before breaking down.

Where is Jafour, dunno if the ban on my not talking has been lifted

busybody20:

That is why it is Pre-Order. You pay money before a car is shipped to you over the internet and balance it when it arrives

but I agree with you @labiyemmy Its not advisable to do such when you can go to Apapa or car shops and buy your ride Cash and Carry 

Two guys have been duped

1st guy N1.5m
2 guy N500K

N2m gone in the air, all in the name of Pre-order?

We shouldn't hide the scammer.It will be better to expose them cos i know some are doing the business with all honesty

[s]HMMN, GOING THROUGH EMPEROH'S WRITE-UP, I CAN NOW SEE THE REASON FOR THE DEAFENING SILENCE AMONGST THE PREORDER DEALERS, BUT STILL . . . [/s]


I agree this case is not as clear cut because of the spanner thrown into the mix about a mysterious car being test driven for two days and then returned, but there is concrete proof money has exchanged hands. Ptconsult is not helping matters by absconding without tendering any explanation. The fact that he is not here defending himself but would rather talk or send text messages to a few select people means he ain't innocent. I can smell his guilt a mile off. The normal behaviour if innocent is to defend oneself as the following examples shows.


When Agariautos was accused of being a fraud, he came out vigorously to defend himself, although the jury is still out as to his innocence


Also when some undesirable elements set out to bring down Inspired_m's God given glory, he successfully fought tooth and nail to absolve himself of blame and vindicate himself.


Now the two aforementioned fellows are business people with a lot at stake, but even individuals with nothing to lose would also not hesitate to set the record straight.


Recent examples include Theseeker accused of being a scammer.  He defended himself that he was not a scammer but a young man in love whose girlfriend did a favour, by paying some deposit to his school on his behalf, who allowing herself to be led by the green-eyed monster, started going round falsely accusing him, but conveniently omitting the part  that she was aware of his location, and had even at one time offered to go behind her dad's back to use his account for him, hence was equally guilty of whatever he was being accused of
. . .


There is also the case of fraudulent facebook girl Tomi P Okoye, guilty as charged, yet gallivanting round with an I don't care attitude At one time even boasting that "maga don pay" . . .


So even if PTconsult decides to bury his head in the sand rather than come out to deal with the allegations being levelled at him, IN SUCH A COUNTRY AS OURS WHEREBY SKEPTISM ABOUNDS ABOUT SENDING MONEY TO VIRTUALLY UNKNOWN PERSONS . . . PREORDER DEALERS KEEPING SCHTUM OVER THIS MATTER AND CARRYING ON LIKE "ITS NOT IN MY BACKYARD" SO ITS "BUSINESS AS USUAL" WILL KINDA BE PERCEIVED AS "CLOSING RANKS".


Bizbooks bandied about the idea of self-policing and getting Dealers to certify themselves but his suggestion/thread got consigned to the "another one bites the dust" category, why


With Onwan, the self-appointed Chief investigator, relaying back from PTconsult the accused to Rawe43 the victim to give him time to get the car delivered, despite the fact that supposed car was supposed to be delivered 21st of April, who knows whether Ptconsult had seen the light and felt guilty and was genuinely sorry, hence the move to eventually deliver the car [B]OR[/B] CONSIDERING AND SEEING THE EASE WITH WHICH IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCAM HERE DECIDED TO LET GO OF RAWE45 BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE CAN INSTEAD DO A RUNNER WHEN 15 VICTIMS AT ONCE HAVE ORDERED AND PAID OR IF NOT HIM, IS IT PREPOSTEROUS TO ASSUME THAT SOMEONE ELSE (ANOTHER "DEALER" COULD EXHIBIT/EXECUTE THIS LINE OF THINKING?


AND WHAT WOULD BE THE STORY THEN? THE NEWS DOING THE ROUND WOULD CERTAINLY NOT BE  "I got scammed by an online dealer e.g Ptconsult, but "I got scammed on Nairaland." And then what happens to the autosection, news spread, the autosection becomes an haven for rogues and undesirable elements, more people get scammed, business starts to wane, some Dealers might jump ship and go to other forum, Nairaland starts to lose traffic . . .


What I am trying to say to you Dealers [s]which probabaly could have been said in one or two lines[/s], is that: the auto industry and anything related is your business, Nairaland is Seun's business, y'all got nowt to lose, the same can't be said for him . . . Be your bROTHER'S KEEPER, EVEN IF SEUN COULD PUT HIS ATTENTION TO BETTER USE, IT AIN'T TOO MUCH FOR YOU LOT TO TAKE UP BIZBOOK'S OFFER

cool-me:

We shouldn't hide the scammer.It will be better to expose them cos i know some are doing the business with all honesty

Thats the thread, his pictures are there

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-440645.0.html

I think, like with all things in life, you take it with a grain of salt.  Too many people do not spend enough time investigating the people they will be dealing with (goes for sellers too).  In all business dealings, there is a certain amount of due diligence that needs to take place to ensure a higher rate of success or level of probability.

It took us some time to convince buyers in Nigeria to purchase from us using pre-order.  Most of the apprehension came from the fact that we were in U.S. and that the buyer would not know what they are getting until the goods arrived.  I can sympathize with our clients but on the other end, look at the position of the seller.  They have tens of thousands invested in a vehicle that is sent without pre-order.  If the vehicle arrives and the buyer, (who at this time has nothing invested) for whatever reason, chooses he/she does not want the vehicle, the seller now has to arrange the safe delivery to an area where the vehicle can be displayed and secured (requiring hiring a driver).  Seller has to now advertise the vehicle (in our case since we are located in U.S., we have to employ a dealer to advertise the vehicle) in hopes to quickly find a new buyer.  If buyer is not found quickly, Seller may have to reduce price of vehicle and most of the time, the budgets are so tight that any reduction can threaten losses for the seller. 

There is just so much liability on a Seller if a vehicle is shipped on the "promise" that it will be paid for once it arrives.  A committed buyer is one who is willing to put his money where his mouth is.  Now don't get me wrong, I don't think a deposit of 1.5m is necessary but both parties need to be vested in the deal.  I think dealers and consumers can find a common ground that is mutually beneficial for both parties.

It has been tough to establish our services and it would be quite silly for us to do anything to tarnish that reputation (same for other reputable dealers here on Nairaland).  I can recall a recent transaction where a client pre-ordered a 2010 Honda Pilot and paid the full amount for it.  Client did his due diligence, contacting our bankers and speaking to our references in Nigeria, even verifying our status with the Corporate Affairs Commission of Nigeria.  We kept in close communications with client and when client came to United States for a business training, we flew across the country to meet him.  I don't say all this to promote our services (you are titled to your opinion if you feel so), but to show that it takes a close communication between buyer and seller and a lot of due diligence by both parties to ensure both parties are satisfied.  If you are depositing 1.5m to someone you only spoke with briefly or only through email, only you are to blame and you should just chalk it up as a lesson learned. C'est la vie.

Here is the link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-440645.0.html

Nothing is risk free.

for the 2M that was lost, if statistics was taken, possible over 1B has successfully exchanged hands, and possibly another 150M saved cos of the pre-order system, which makes cars cheaper.

So you see, 2M really is really part of the mess, unfortunate, but nothing is risk free, even when you buy cars with your korokoro eyes people still get duped.

OVerall, this is an effective system, that's worked for quite a long time for both buyers and sellers alike. I give it thumbs up.

It is unfortunate that there are people out there who, instead of doing an honest days work, would rather dupe "hard working" individuals.  That being said, Nigerians should not discourage pre-ordering as it adds way more benefits in comparison to the risks, many which have been mentioned in this thread.  Also, paying for goods not seen has been done the world over.  We are trying to help establish something that is helping Nigeria stay current with other world economies and nations.  Let's get out of this mindset of having to see a good before it can be paid for.  Once this mindset is broken, we will see online stores and services that are found in thriving economies being introduced into Nigeria at rapid pace.

Obviously, as mentioned before, a level of due diligence should be carried out by both parties before any venture or agreement is entered into.

Why can't we promote a referral system i.e- Recommend sellers we have used in the past? Likewise,though this is a tough one,dealers could also refer potential buyers to one another. There's enough for everyone,you can't always have ALL the cars the market wants,and if you do,not in the exact specification. Despite the success so far,i bet business can triple if there's more trust and credibility especially from the dealers.

Why on Earth would a Nigerian fall for this scams, meet someone over the Net and send money to them without meeting them for goods??

Emperoh:

Seun

I really do not think this is worth your attention at the moment.
The accuser is yet to come out to paint a very clear picture of what happened to him and how he was defrauded
even though the accused is no longer seen on Nairaland and is being alleged to have re-appeared with another user-name.

As long as these things are not clear, there is practically nothing to investigate or act about.
This site is not new to scandals and this will never be the last. I just hope genuine members like us are not affected.
People like Inspired_M who went thru these sort of smear campaign have come out better equipped.
So let the accused and accuser come up with their case if there is any. At the moment, there is nothing of substance to hold on to.

People have lost money and you're telling others not to follow up on any investigation? When last did you vist that thread anyway?
Your post is laughably selfish - all you're concerned about is the possibility of any fallout on your own cash cow.
Stop being short sighted. If scams here are not nipped in the bud at this infancy stage, there'll come a time when the taint of suspicion and distrust will stain everyone of you salesmen here.
I know many people can easily vouch for most of you salesmen. Hell, i can vouch for several here, and i'm pretty sure you're one of the good guys. But you really don't want a cloud of suspicion to hang over nairaland's auto section.

Are there any alternatives to the pre-order system? Something safer but equally convenient?

woleshi:

Why on Earth would a Nigerian fall for this scams, meet someone over the Net and send money to them without meeting them for goods??

woleshi,
its called 'pre-order' and this is not unique to nl autos alone. do you fly over to inspect goods on e-bay before making payment for them? no?

people have been ordering things over the internet without meeting the vendor physically for years now so this is no big deal.

even the goods you see physically and pay for people still get duped so its not about meeting people. its about being honest in your dealings.

George_D:

woleshi,
its called 'pre-order' and this is not unique to nl autos alone. do you fly over to inspect goods on e-bay before making payment for them? no?

people have been ordering things over the internet without meeting the vendor physically for years now so this is no big deal.

even the goods you see physically and pay for people still get duped so its not about meeting people. its about being honest in your dealings.

Ebay uses paypal as a safe means of payment, If you get scammed on Ebay; your money will be refunded by the policy but on Nairaland Pre-order: You will you transfer money into a strangers bank account, If you get scammed on NL will your money be refunded? NO

This is why I reiterate that you should be doing your due diligence before any dealings with someone. That goes for both buyers and sellers because certainly sellers can be duped as well. I think if parties to the transaction ask for references and make sure they verify and check out those references, it should make things go more soundly. One good reference that both parties should be checking out is the banker involved in the transaction as most bankers will not want to be a party to a dubious business.

busybody20:

Ebay uses paypal as a safe means of payment, If you get scammed on Ebay; your money will be refunded by the policy but on Nairaland Pre-order: You will you transfer money into a strangers bank account, If you get scammed on NL will your money be refunded? NO

granted we don't have pay paypal or any such scam-proof means of payment in nl yet but doesn't mean we should stop pre-ordering things. and like pelpelly said, due dilligence is key in any transaction regardless whether it's an online deal or not.

Hello ppl evryone is right to xtent.i also pre-order cars frm d usa bt evry1 isnt criminal minded.bt i personaly dnt bliv any1 shud make any payment 2 anybody without meeting n discussing with d dealer.u shud see ,sit down n discuss.den if ur convinced n u bliv den u cn go on wit d deal.dis is hw i operate no online payment.we meet u see n if u bliv fine n if u dnt fine,as it is alwaz sed seein is believing