solite3:

2/ Mary Carried the God-man in her womb does not mean she was the mother of God, 'Mary the mother of God' was not taught in the early church.
3/John 20:27-28 does prove Jesus is God but not that God had a mother.

You must be redefining the word "mother" because if Jesus was in Mary's womb, it does make Jesus the son of Mary who gave birth to him and was his mother.

The question may rest on Christ's divinity, whether he became God on 'conception' in Mary or when he was born, and all the evidence does suggest it was at conception, which certainly makes Mary the mother of God - if Jesus is indeed God. But even if Jesus became God after being born, like a person becomes a doctor or lawyer, the person who gave birth to him is still his mother just as she would be the mother of the lawyer or doctor if that had been the profession of her son.

The only way that Mary would have to not be the mother of God is if her son, Jesus, was not God!

Gggg102:



your mother is the person that gave birth to you.
is the woman who gave birth to you body and spirit not the mother of you body and spirit?

mother is different from creator. your mother did not create your spirit but she gave birth to it.

your body and your spirit came into this world through your mother. you mother gave birth to you body soul and spirit.


did your spirit originate from your mother before she gave birth to you?

Mary gave birth to Jesus body and spirit.
no one is saying she originated the spirit. she only gave birth to it. that qualifies her as a mother.

the spirit is eternal.

the spirit added flesh and entered Mary's womb.

Mary gave birth to the child consisting of flesh and spirit.

Mary, therefore, is the mother of the child consisting of flesh and spirit.

I think you need a biology class being a mother goes more than giving birth, motherhood is a biological term except you mean adoption.

Who's this ignorant, crazy baboon?

budaatum:

You must be redefining the word "mother" because if Jesus was in Mary's womb, it does make Jesus the son of Mary who gave birth to him and was his mother.

The question may rest on Christ's divinity, whether he became God on 'conception' in Mary or when he was born, and all the evidence does suggest it was at conception, which certainly makes Mary the mother of God - if Jesus is indeed God. But even if Jesus became God after being born, like a person becomes a doctor or lawyer, the person who gave birth to him is still his mother just as she would be the mother of the lawyer or doctor if that had been the profession of her son.

The only way that Mary would have to not be the mother of God is if her son, Jesus, was not God!

unfortunately God is not just a title.your analogy does not work,
you got that wrong as usual, Jesus didn't become God at conception but he became man at conception this is why Mary is the mother of Christ our Lord not God.

the title mother of God is mischievous ,suffice it to say that Mary is the mother of christ.

solite3:
it is not about giving birth but about relationship,
your question should
in what way is Mary the mother of Jesus, biologically or spiritually?
you seem to assume that if Mary gave birth to Jesus, then Mary is his mother whether physically or spiritually, you need to understand that God's nature and relationship is inherently spirirual, do you know that Jesus never called Mary his mother throughout the whole bible? Jesus prefers his spiritual relationship that any biological relationship which only ended after Jesus death.

do you know Jesus never used the toilet in the Bible?
does that mean he never used the toilet throughout his life?

Mary gave birth to Jesus flesh and spirit. Jesus' flesh and spirit passed through Mary when he came to earth.
that makes Mary theokotos i.e God bearer.

she bore God.

solite3:
unfortunately God is not just a title.your analogy does not work,
you got that wrong as usual, Jesus didn't become God at conception but he became man at conception this is why Mary is the mother of Christ our Lord not God.

the title mother of God is mischievous ,suffice it to say that Mary is the mother of christ.

since God became man at the conception, it means the baby that grew in the womb was God and man. when Mary was delivering in Bethlehem, the baby she delivered was both God and man.

she gave birth to a baby that was both God and man.

she bore Jesus who is God and man.

Gggg102:


do you know Jesus never used the toilet in the Bible?
does that mean he never used the toilet throughout his life?

Mary gave birth to Jesus flesh and spirit. Jesus' flesh and spirit passed through Mary when he came to earth.
that makes Mary theokotos i.e God bearer.

she bore God.

because it is irrelevant
so let it rest

Gggg102:


since God became man at the conception, it means the baby that grew in the womb was God and man. when Mary was delivering in Bethlehem, the baby she delivered was both God and man.

she gave birth to a baby that was both God and man.

she bore Jesus who is God and man.

yes Mary carried Jesus in her womb but she is not the mother of God.
stick to the important issues in the bible.

solite3:
yes Mary carried Jesus in her womb but she is not the mother of God.
stick to the important issues in the bible.

This is the issue on this thread. You are free to leave you know.

If Mary is not the "Mother of God", then Jesus is not God!

solite3:
because it is irrelevant so let it rest

your 'Jesus never called Mary mother in the Bible ' is also as irrelevant.

solite3:
yes Mary carried Jesus in her womb but she is not the mother of God.
stick to the important issues in the bible.

if the baby she delivered is not God, who is the baby?

why Mary is not the mother of God

In the 4th century, when Constantine the Great appointed himself Pontifex Maximus – supreme head – of the Christian Church, pagans and their pagan beliefs began infiltrating Christendom. Among the most influential of the new “converts” were those from the Mediterranean and Middle East areas where worship of the “Great Mother Goddess” and the “Divine Virgin” had existed since Babylon. According to Britannica, these groups:
“….found within the Christian Church a new possibility of expression in the worship of Mary as the virgin mother of God, in whom was achieved the mysterious union of the divine Logos with human nature. ” (Britannica,
Christianity : The doctrine of the Virgin Mary and holy Wisdom.)
By the end of the 4th century, Mary the mother of Jesus, known prior to the advent of Constantine as the Christ-bearer, (Greek
Christotokos, ) was being referred to as the God-bearer, ( theotokos .) Thus was born the doctrine of Mary, mother of God, a title foreign to Scripture where she is called only the mother of Jesus. At first, this matter drew little attention, but in AD 428, Anastasius, a presbyter in the church at Constantinople, raised objections to the theotokos appellation, and thereby originated a controversy that continues to exist here in the 21 st century.
Anastasius was immediately supported in his position by Nestorius, bishop of the Constantinople church, who believed that the
theotokos title adversely affected the fact of our Lord’s full humanity. Cyril, powerful bishop of Alexandria, motivated as much by envy of Constantinople’s standing among the eastern churches as he was by the theological aspects of the controversy, joined battle over the issue with Nestorius, outflanked him at the AD 431 First Council of Ephesus, and succeeded in confirming Mary as the mother of God. Nestorius, falsely accused of separating Christ’s two natures – human and divine – subsequently was excommunicated, then sacked as bishop of Constantinople by the emperor, Theodosius II, who had appointed him in the first place. He died in exile, but the controversy lives on. Is Mary the mother or Jesus? Or is she, a created being, the mother of eternal God?
The Roman Catholic Church and certain mainline churches that split from Rome during or following the Reformation, declare unequivocally that Mary is, in fact, the mother of God. Those historically and currently who oppose this teaching are accused, as was Nestorius, of “dividing Christ” into an “earthly Jesus” and a “heavenly Jesus,” thereby denying the essential unity of our Lord’s two natures. But that is merely an unproved and unprovable accusation. Christ, in fact, had two distinct natures fused into a single human body, a mystery quite as hidden to man as three distinct persons comprising a single Godhead. To say that Mary was the mother of Jesus only is no more a division of Christ’s two natures than acknowledging Christ as the only begotten Son of the Father is a division of the Godhead. Both are mysteries akin to that of a virgin being with child allegedly conceived by that same unborn child because He is a member of the Godhead. Shades, in other words, of the Babylonian “Mystery” religion.
In a document entitled, The Mother of Jesus , published by the Catholic Information Service of the Knights of Columbus, justification for calling Mary the mother of God is capsulized in the following two paragraphs:
In the natural and normal process of human reproduction, when both maternal and paternal functions unite, God simultaneously creates the human soul which enlivens the fecundated ovum in the woman’s womb, and thus a human person is conceived. It is always an individual’s human nature – a person who possesses human nature. (Emphasis added.)
It matters not that the woman has no part in the production of the spiritual element
(directly created by God) in the human nature of the person she conceives. It suffices that she has supplied the bodily substance which goes into the constitution of human nature possessed by the person, that she rightly acquires the title of mother. (Emphasis added.)
No one disputes the fact that Mary is the mother of the human Jesus even though she was not the “supplier” of His human soul. Nor is there any question that the man Christ Jesus was created human in body, soul and spirit. What is disputed is the extension of the title “mother” to a divine nature that eternally existed and was not created in the womb of the virgin. A mother is only the mother of what originates within her womb. The second person of the blessed trinity did not originate in Mary’s body. He is without beginning – has always existed – and has no mother.
“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.) (Psalm 90:2) “Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.” (Psalm 93:2)
“But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,” (Psalm 103:17) “Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.” (Psalm 106:48)
That Jesus had two natures – one created and one eternal - united in a single human body is beyond question. That only one of those two natures originated in Mary’s womb also is beyond question. And why she cannot then be called the mother of God finds an exact parallel in Christ’s relationship to King David.
“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David :” (Luke 1:32) “And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?” (Matt 12:23) “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David ; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.” (Matt 15:22) “And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of
David.” (Matt 20:30) “And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David : Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.” (Matt 21:9)
In these Scriptures it is clearly established that the nation of Israel expected their Messiah to derive – as prophesied - from the tribe of Judah and the house of David, thereby attributing fatherhood of the Messiah to David in accordance with their method of reckoning descent. But David cannot be called the father of God because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus. Our Lord Himself preempted any possibility of that erroneous belief.
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.” (Matt 22:42-46) Parallel accounts of this episode are found in Mark 12: 35-37, and Luke 20:41-44.
In these Scriptures, our Lord has done what Roman Catholic apologists say may not be done. He has clearly drawn a line between the human nature and the eternal nature of Christ. He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity. He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery – one the Jews of His day could not comprehend any better than the Roman Catholics or Christians of the 21st century. This mystery of the two fused but separate natures manifest in Christ finds another reference in the following excerpt from the Gospel of John. When confronted by the Jews and constrained to identify himself, John the Baptist’s response included this interesting disclosure: “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him .” (John 3:34) Certainly the Holy Spirit could not have been given to the Second Person of the trinity for He is part of that trinity. So the Holy Spirit that was given without measure was given only to the
man Christ Jesus.
It stands to reason, then, that like King David – to whom fatherhood ONLY of the
man Christ Jesus is attributed - Mary is the Mother ONLY of the man Christ Jesus. To prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt, let us insert Mary’s name in place of King David’s in the previously cited Scriptures:
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of MARY . He saith unto them, How then doth MARY call him Lord, saying, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:46, 47) If
MARY then call him Lord, how is he her son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”
To insist that Mary is Christotokos only and not theotokos is not to separate Jesus into a “heavenly Jesus” and an “earthly Jesus” as Roman Catholicism contends. It is merely recognizing what Jesus Himself made clear, that David was not the father of God, and by parallel reasoning, Mary was His earthly mother only, and not a Goddess or Queen of Heaven worthy of the title mother of God.
Because the Second Person of the blessed trinity is an eternal being having neither a beginning nor an ending, it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered as the second Adam on Calvary and died for the sins of the world. The Second Person of the trinity did not die, cannot die or be put to death. And it’s the man Christ Jesus – not the Second Person of the trinity - who is said Scripturally to be the one mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5) He who is eternal, who could not and cannot die, could not be, and was not, born of the virgin.
Conclusion: Jesus Christ the man is the son of Mary. The Second Person of the Trinity is her God, not her son, for He did not originate in her womb.

solite3:


why Mary is not the mother of God

In the 4th century, when Constantine the Great appointed himself Pontifex Maximus – supreme head – of the Christian Church, pagans and their pagan beliefs began infiltrating Christendom. Among the most influential of the new “converts” were those from the Mediterranean and Middle East areas where worship of the “Great Mother Goddess” and the “Divine Virgin” had existed since Babylon. According to Britannica, these groups:
“….found within the Christian Church a new possibility of expression in the worship of Mary as the virgin mother of God, in whom was achieved the mysterious union of the divine Logos with human nature. ” (Britannica,
Christianity : The doctrine of the Virgin Mary and holy Wisdom.)
By the end of the 4th century, Mary the mother of Jesus, known prior to the advent of Constantine as the Christ-bearer, (Greek
Christotokos, ) was being referred to as the God-bearer, ( theotokos .) Thus was born the doctrine of Mary, mother of God, a title foreign to Scripture where she is called only the mother of Jesus. At first, this matter drew little attention, but in AD 428, Anastasius, a presbyter in the church at Constantinople, raised objections to the theotokos appellation, and thereby originated a controversy that continues to exist here in the 21 st century.
Anastasius was immediately supported in his position by Nestorius, bishop of the Constantinople church, who believed that the
theotokos title adversely affected the fact of our Lord’s full humanity. Cyril, powerful bishop of Alexandria, motivated as much by envy of Constantinople’s standing among the eastern churches as he was by the theological aspects of the controversy, joined battle over the issue with Nestorius, outflanked him at the AD 431 First Council of Ephesus, and succeeded in confirming Mary as the mother of God. Nestorius, falsely accused of separating Christ’s two natures – human and divine – subsequently was excommunicated, then sacked as bishop of Constantinople by the emperor, Theodosius II, who had appointed him in the first place. He died in exile, but the controversy lives on. Is Mary the mother or Jesus? Or is she, a created being, the mother of eternal God?
The Roman Catholic Church and certain mainline churches that split from Rome during or following the Reformation, declare unequivocally that Mary is, in fact, the mother of God. Those historically and currently who oppose this teaching are accused, as was Nestorius, of “dividing Christ” into an “earthly Jesus” and a “heavenly Jesus,” thereby denying the essential unity of our Lord’s two natures. But that is merely an unproved and unprovable accusation. Christ, in fact, had two distinct natures fused into a single human body, a mystery quite as hidden to man as three distinct persons comprising a single Godhead. To say that Mary was the mother of Jesus only is no more a division of Christ’s two natures than acknowledging Christ as the only begotten Son of the Father is a division of the Godhead. Both are mysteries akin to that of a virgin being with child allegedly conceived by that same unborn child because He is a member of the Godhead. Shades, in other words, of the Babylonian “Mystery” religion.
In a document entitled, The Mother of Jesus , published by the Catholic Information Service of the Knights of Columbus, justification for calling Mary the mother of God is capsulized in the following two paragraphs:
In the natural and normal process of human reproduction, when both maternal and paternal functions unite, God simultaneously creates the human soul which enlivens the fecundated ovum in the woman’s womb, and thus a human person is conceived. It is always an individual’s human nature – a person who possesses human nature. (Emphasis added.)
It matters not that the woman has no part in the production of the spiritual element
(directly created by God) in the human nature of the person she conceives. It suffices that she has supplied the bodily substance which goes into the constitution of human nature possessed by the person, that she rightly acquires the title of mother. (Emphasis added.)
No one disputes the fact that Mary is the mother of the human Jesus even though she was not the “supplier” of His human soul. Nor is there any question that the man Christ Jesus was created human in body, soul and spirit. What is disputed is the extension of the title “mother” to a divine nature that eternally existed and was not created in the womb of the virgin. A mother is only the mother of what originates within her womb. The second person of the blessed trinity did not originate in Mary’s body. He is without beginning – has always existed – and has no mother.
“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.) (Psalm 90:2) “Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.” (Psalm 93:2)
“But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,” (Psalm 103:17) “Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.” (Psalm 106:48)
That Jesus had two natures – one created and one eternal - united in a single human body is beyond question. That only one of those two natures originated in Mary’s womb also is beyond question. And why she cannot then be called the mother of God finds an exact parallel in Christ’s relationship to King David.
“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David :” (Luke 1:32) “And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?” (Matt 12:23) “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David ; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.” (Matt 15:22) “And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of
David.” (Matt 20:30) “And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David : Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.” (Matt 21:9)
In these Scriptures it is clearly established that the nation of Israel expected their Messiah to derive – as prophesied - from the tribe of Judah and the house of David, thereby attributing fatherhood of the Messiah to David in accordance with their method of reckoning descent. But David cannot be called the father of God because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus. Our Lord Himself preempted any possibility of that erroneous belief.
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.” (Matt 22:42-46) Parallel accounts of this episode are found in Mark 12: 35-37, and Luke 20:41-44.
In these Scriptures, our Lord has done what Roman Catholic apologists say may not be done. He has clearly drawn a line between the human nature and the eternal nature of Christ. He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity. He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery – one the Jews of His day could not comprehend any better than the Roman Catholics or Christians of the 21st century. This mystery of the two fused but separate natures manifest in Christ finds another reference in the following excerpt from the Gospel of John. When confronted by the Jews and constrained to identify himself, John the Baptist’s response included this interesting disclosure: “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him .” (John 3:34) Certainly the Holy Spirit could not have been given to the Second Person of the trinity for He is part of that trinity. So the Holy Spirit that was given without measure was given only to the
man Christ Jesus.
It stands to reason, then, that like King David – to whom fatherhood ONLY of the
man Christ Jesus is attributed - Mary is the Mother ONLY of the man Christ Jesus. To prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt, let us insert Mary’s name in place of King David’s in the previously cited Scriptures:
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of MARY . He saith unto them, How then doth MARY call him Lord, saying, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:46, 47) If
MARY then call him Lord, how is he her son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”
To insist that Mary is Christotokos only and not theotokos is not to separate Jesus into a “heavenly Jesus” and an “earthly Jesus” as Roman Catholicism contends. It is merely recognizing what Jesus Himself made clear, that David was not the father of God, and by parallel reasoning, Mary was His earthly mother only, and not a Goddess or Queen of Heaven worthy of the title mother of God.
Because the Second Person of the blessed trinity is an eternal being having neither a beginning nor an ending, it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered as the second Adam on Calvary and died for the sins of the world. The Second Person of the trinity did not die, cannot die or be put to death. And it’s the man Christ Jesus – not the Second Person of the trinity - who is said Scripturally to be the one mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5) He who is eternal, who could not and cannot die, could not be, and was not, born of the virgin.
Conclusion: Jesus Christ the man is the son of Mary. The Second Person of the Trinity is her God, not her son, for He did not originate in her womb.

everything you stated here has been dealt with in previous posts.
reposting it in a different format won't magically make it true.

solite3:
The rcc teachings are most times unclear and subtly deceptive.
Jesus existed before he was born -correct
the word took on flesh and became the God-man- correct
Mary therefore is the mother of God- wrong.
reason because God existed before Mary simple.

So lets use your logic
Jesus existed before he was born -correct
Mary therefore is the mother of God- wrong.
reason because God existed before Mary simple.

So from your logic Mary cannot be the Mother of Jesus because Jesus existed before Mary.
You logic does not hold water.
If you don't understand the Catholic teachings ask instead slandering what you don't understand.
(Jude 10 :Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand...)

Matthew begins by calling Jesus the son of David, indicating his royal origin, and also son of Abraham, indicating that he was an Israelite; both are stock phrases, in which son means descendant, calling to mind the promises God made to David and to Abraham.
the above is for solite. It was not David alone but also Abraham but that should not be understood that son means any other thing but descendant. now in the case of Mary and God the Father son can be understood to be not just a descendant but of having father and son and mother and son relationship because Jesus who is also God got his humanity from Mary and his divinity from God and Mary was privileged to give birth to this exceptional being which have never happened before and will not happen again. Mary is the mother of God but we don't understand it in the sense that she is the mother of the Second person of the Trinity but God made man

Gggg102:



did Mary give birth to Jesus flesh and spirit?

Wrong question bro
Your question shld have been how then was He born of flesh and spirit?(though,my earlier verse had dealth with it)
John1:35The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be "HOLY"and he will be called the Son of God.
1.mary was not the daughter of God initially according to these verse.
2.she was not HOLY neither.(it was what was formed in her that was HOLY)
3.please try and know what it meant for the Holy Spirit to come upon and over shadows someone in a particular issue.

lacum:
Matthew begins by calling Jesus the son of David, indicating his royal origin, and also son of Abraham, indicating that he was an Israelite; both are stock phrases, in which son means descendant, calling to mind the promises God made to David and to Abraham.
the above is for solite. It was not David alone but also Abraham but that should not be understood that son means any other thing but descendant. now in the case of Mary and God the Father son can be understood to be not just a descendant but of having father and son and mother and son relationship because Jesus who is also God got his humanity from Mary and his divinity from God and Mary was privileged to give birth to this exceptional being which have never happened before and will not happen again. Mary is the mother of God but we don't understand it in the sense that she is the mother of the Second person of the Trinity but God made man

how did Jesus become the descendant of David? was it not by birth? so Jesus is the Son of David as much as he is the son of mary. The God-man took his humanity from the Davidic lineage and was birthed by a descendant of David (for royalty is by birth) but yet he refuted that he is a son of David hence not a of Mary as well.
Except you want to tell me Mary was not also a daughter of David.

ichuka:

Wrong question bro
Your question shld have been how then was He born of flesh and spirit?(though,my earlier verse had dealth with it)
John1:35The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be "HOLY"and he will be called the Son of God.
1.mary was not the daughter of God initially according to these verse.
2.she was not HOLY neither.(it was what was formed in her that was HOLY)
3.please try and know what it meant for the Holy Spirit to come upon and over shadows someone in a particular issue.

this is not the issue being discussed in this thread.

the issue is: did Mary give birth to God the son?
which she did because she gave birth to Jesus flesh(man) and spirit(God).

MosesAlex:

So lets use your logic
Jesus existed before he was born -correct
Mary therefore is the mother of God- wrong.
reason because God existed before Mary simple.

So from your logic Mary cannot be the Mother of Jesus because Jesus existed before Mary.
You logic does not hold water.
If you don't understand the Catholic teachings ask instead slandering what you don't understand.
(Jude 10 :Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand...)

Solite it seems you don't see this response or you don't have an answer to it?

MosesAlex:

Solite it seems you don't see this response or you don't have an answer to it?

yes Mary is Jesus mother but not mother of God

solite3:
yes Mary is Jesus mother but not mother of God

So how is it that Mary is the mother of Jesus when , He existed before her?

How can she be the mother of her creator? were as " John 1;1-3,14
says
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


How is it that Elizabeth filled with the Holy Ghost could recognize her dignity (luke 1:43) And you don,t?

MosesAlex:


So how is it that Mary is the mother of Jesus when , He existed before her?

How can she be the mother of her creator? were as " John 1;1-3,14
says
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


How is it that Elizabeth filled with the Holy Ghost could recognize her dignity (luke 1:43) And you don,t?

the humanity of Christie started from Mary's womb but his divinity predates her remember that the two nature's of Jesus are not mixed but only unified thus it makes sense to identify Mary as the mother of christ our Lord which even Elisabeth attested to than address her as the mother of God.
hope you know that christ humanity is different from his divine nature?
as a man he was a descendant of David born by a virgin named Mary, he lived as any other man, bled and died but yet without sin.
but as God he neither had beginning or ending, neither had any descendant or mother, cannot die bit eternally the blessed creator.
so Mary was never the mother of God.
shallom

solite3:
unfortunately God is not just a title.your analogy does not work,
you got that wrong as usual, Jesus didn't become God at conception but he became man at conception this is why Mary is the mother of Christ our Lord not God.

the title mother of God is mischievous ,suffice it to say that Mary is the mother of christ.

The funny thing is that the Angel that brought the message to Mary told us that the child will be called "Son of God" and not God.
becos Jesus is different person from his father.

solite3:
the humanity of Christie started from Mary's womb but his divinity predates her remember that the two nature's of Jesus are not mixed but only unified thus it makes sense to identify Mary as the mother of christ our Lord which even Elisabeth attested to than address her as the mother of God.
hope you know that christ humanity is different from his divine nature?
as a man he was a descendant of David born by a virgin named Mary, he lived as any other man, bled and died but yet without sin.
but as God he neither had beginning or ending, neither had any descendant or mother, cannot die bit eternally the blessed creator.
so Mary was never the mother of God.
shallom

Stop allowing this people to confuse you.
Jesus is not the same person as God.
Jesus is the son, while his father is God.
2 different beings but united in one accord.

March 16, 2011
"And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my
beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Matthew 3:17, KJV
"And there came a voice from heaven, saying,
Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased."
Mark 1:11, KJV
"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape
like a dove upon him, and a voice came from
heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in
thee I am well pleased."
Luke 3:22, KJV
"While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud
overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of
the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in
whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
Matthew 17:5, KJV
"And there was a cloud that overshadowed them:
and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is
my beloved Son: hear him."
Mark 9:7, KJV
"And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying,
This is my beloved Son: hear him."
Luke 9:35, KJV
"For he received from God the Father honour and
glory, when there came such a voice to him from
the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in
whom I am well pleased."
2 Peter 1:17, KJV
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his
only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in
him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to
condemn the world; but that the world through
him might be saved. He that believeth on him is
not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of
God."
John 3:16-18, KJV
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is
coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the
voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall
live."
John 5:25, KJV
"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified,
and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest;
because I said, I am the Son of God?"
John 10:36, KJV
"When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is
not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the
Son of God might be glorified thereby."
John 11:4, KJV
"And the angel answered and said unto her, The
Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power
of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore
also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God."
Luke 1:35, KJV
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him,
and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh
away the sin of the world . . . And I saw, and bare
record that this is the Son of God . . . And looking
upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the
Lamb of God!"
John 1:29, 34, 36, KJV
". . . Of a truth thou art the Son of God."
Matthew 14:33b, KJV
". . . Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living
God. And Jesus answered and said unto him,
Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and
blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my
Father which is in heaven."
Matthew 16:16b-17, KJV
"The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the
Son of God;"
Mark 1:1, KJV
"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son
of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was
the son of God."
Luke 3:38, KJV
". . . Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the
King of Israel."
John 1:49b, KJV
". . . Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ,
the Son of God, which should come into the
world."
John 11:27b, KJV
"But these are written, that ye might believe that
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that
believing ye might have life through his name."
John 20:31, KJV
"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of
God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."
1 John 4:15, KJV
"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that
believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? . . . He that
believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God hath made him
a liar; because he believeth not the record that
God gave of his Son . . . He that hath the Son hath
life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not
life. These things have I written unto you that
believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye
may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye
may believe on the name of the Son of God . . .
And we know that the Son of God is come, and
hath given us an understanding, that we may
know him that is true, and we are in him that is
true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true
God, and eternal life."
1 John 5:5, 10, 12-13, 20, KJV
"Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and
when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost
thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and
said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on
him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both
seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And
he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him."
John 9:35-38, KJV
"Now when the centurion, and they that were with
him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and
those things that were done, they feared greatly,
saying, Truly this was the Son of God."
Matthew 27:54, KJV
"And when the centurion, which stood over
against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave
up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son
of God."
Mark 15:39, KJV
". . . I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Acts 8:37b, KJV
"And straightway he preached Christ in the
synagogues, that he is the Son of God."
Acts 9:20, KJV
"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which
was made of the seed of David according to the
flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with
power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the
resurrection from the dead:"
Romans 1:3-4, KJV
"For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was
preached among you by us, even by me and
Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but
in him was yea."
2 Corinthians 1:19, KJV
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet
not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I
now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son
of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Galatians 2:20, KJV
"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of
the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect
man, unto the measure of the stature of the
fulness of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:13, KJV
"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that
is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God,
let us hold fast our profession."
Hebrews 4:14, KJV
"If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto
repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the
Son of God afresh, and put him to an open
shame."
Hebrews 6:6, KJV
"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye,
shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden
under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the
blood of the covenant, wherewith he was
sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done
despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Hebrews 10:29, KJV
"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have
we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art
thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
Matthew 8:29, KJV
"And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell
down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the
Son of God."
Mark 3:11, KJV
"And devils also came out of many, crying out,
and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And
he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for
they knew that he was Christ."
Luke 4:41, KJV
"When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down
before him, and with a loud voice said, What
have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God
most high? I beseech thee, torment me not."
Luke 8:28, KJV

lacum:
Matthew begins by calling Jesus the son of David, indicating his royal origin, and also son of Abraham, indicating that he was an Israelite; both are stock phrases, in which son means descendant, calling to mind the promises God made to David and to Abraham.
the above is for solite. It was not David alone but also Abraham but that should not be understood that son means any other thing but descendant. now in the case of Mary and God the Father son can be understood to be not just a descendant but of having father and son and mother and son relationship because Jesus who is also God got his humanity from Mary and his divinity from God and Mary was privileged to give birth to this exceptional being which have never happened before and will not happen again. Mary is the mother of God but we don't understand it in the sense that she is the mother of the Second person of the Trinity but God made man

Crap.

solite3:
the humanity of Christie started from Mary's womb but his divinity predates her remember that the two nature's of Jesus are not mixed but only unified thus it makes sense to identify Mary as the mother of christ our Lord which even Elisabeth attested to than address her as the mother of God.
hope you know that christ humanity is different from his divine nature?
as a man he was a descendant of David born by a virgin named Mary, he lived as any other man, bled and died but yet without sin.
but as God he neither had beginning or ending, neither had any descendant or mother, cannot die bit eternally the blessed creator.
so Mary was never the mother of God.
shallom

Is Jesus God ? The answer is Yes
Is Mary His Mother? The answer is Yes.
Is Jesus Christ truly God and truly man ? Yes

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Was the baby Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost , God? answer : Yes ( For John 1:1-2 "...and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God)



Gal 4:4
But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

Hence the title : Mary, Mother of God.
The title Mother of God is with respect to God the Son.
We call her Daughter of God the Father, Mother of God the Son,

The Holy Trinity is a mystery we accept in faith.

MosesAlex:


Is Jesus God ? The answer is Yes
Is Mary His Mother? The answer is Yes.
Is Jesus Christ truly God and truly man ? Yes

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Was the baby Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost , God? answer : Yes ( For John 1:1-2 "...and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God)



Gal 4:4
But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

Hence the title : Mary, Mother of God.
The title Mother of God is with respect to God the Son.
We call her Daughter of God the Father, Mother of God the Son,

The Holy Trinity is a mystery we accept in faith.

funny enough not even the church father's creed called mary mother of God the son.
going by logic david from whom mary came must the bear the title forefather of God right? but Jesus disagrees with you he is not the son of David, that automatically mean he is not the son of mary.

so, there is nothing like mother of God neither father of God

blueAgent:



The funny thing is that the Angel that brought the message to Mary told us that the child will be called "Son of God" and not God.
becos Jesus is different person from his father.

the son of God is God! scripture is filled with loads of proof

blueAgent:



Stop allowing this people to confuse you. Jesus is not the same person as God. Jesus is the son, while his father is God. 2 different beings but united in one accord.
March 16, 2011 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matthew 3:17, KJV "And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Mark 1:11, KJV "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." Luke 3:22, KJV "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." Matthew 17:5, KJV "And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." Mark 9:7, KJV "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." Luke 9:35, KJV "For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 2 Peter 1:17, KJV "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18, KJV "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." John 5:25, KJV "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" John 10:36, KJV "When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby." John 11:4, KJV "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35, KJV "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world . . . And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God . . . And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!" John 1:29, 34, 36, KJV ". . . Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Matthew 14:33b, KJV ". . . Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 16:16b-17, KJV "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" Mark 1:1, KJV "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38, KJV ". . . Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel." John 1:49b, KJV ". . . Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." John 11:27b, KJV "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:31, KJV "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:15, KJV "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? . . . He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son . . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God . . . And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." 1 John 5:5, 10, 12-13, 20, KJV "Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him." John 9:35-38, KJV "Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God." Matthew 27:54, KJV "And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God." Mark 15:39, KJV ". . . I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37b, KJV "And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20, KJV "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:" Romans 1:3-4, KJV "For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea." 2 Corinthians 1:19, KJV "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20, KJV "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Ephesians 4:13, KJV "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14, KJV "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:6, KJV "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:29, KJV "And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" Matthew 8:29, KJV "And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God." Mark 3:11, KJV "And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ." Luke 4:41, KJV "When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not." Luke 8:28, KJV

deceive me? far from it yes Jesus is not God the Father but Jesus is equally God. John1:1

solite3:
funny enough not even the church father's creed called mary mother of God the son.
going by logic david from whom mary came must the bear the title forefather of God right? but Jesus disagrees with you he is not the son of David, that automatically mean he is not the son of mary.

so, there is nothing like mother of God neither father of God

Interesting the way you avoided all the biblical quotes and now talking about " the church father's creed" .Do you believe in the Nicene Creed?

Where did Jesus Christ disagree being the son of David?

solite3:
deceive me? far from it
yes Jesus is not God the Father but Jesus is equally God. John1:1

solite3:
the son of God is God! scripture is filled with loads of proof

So, there are two Gods?

MosesAlex:


Interesting the way you avoided all the biblical quotes and now talking about " the church father's creed" .Do you believe in the Nicene Creed?

Where did Jesus Christ disagree being the son of David?

Luke 20:41-44 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?