majekdom2:
you keep shouting the bible and it's because you have read it wrongly. You are an ex christian because you have read the bible wrongly, frustrated and can't apply the principles right. A little wisdom is what will save you. Are you saying if Jesus spoke to Peter, it excludes believers? What he says to one, he says to all- have you forgotten. Go get that clear. Yes, his faith- i.e belief in God not crumbling. This is to tell you there is a chance your faith fails due to the situation around you, you may not able to control those situations and what you need is prayer. For instance, chelsea may loose to arsenal because of situations chelsea may have no control over. Faith does not negate that fact that failure is possible. Faith is only a focus on the positive. Let the weak say I am strong. They are weak, the negative is there but they chose to be positive. There is a popular saying of seeing the cup half full or seeing the cup half empty. The former is regarded as being positive. This is what faith is about. The God factor is what makes it religious. Get wisdom brother. When you read the bible, read with understanding. Where in the bible is it written that all you need is faith to get healed? I am not disputing the fact that there are miracles. Miracles have been happening before the preaching of faith in the new testament. Faith does no replace work or doing the necessary. Read the bible again. This time read proverbs not just Hebrews alone. If you check well, the new testament was about spreading of the gospel. This gospel was new to many thus the emphasis on the need to believe so as to see results. You are the one who needs to read your bible. Show me scriptures that have cancelled out doing the necessary because faith exist.

You are just all about convenience. Let's agree that Jesus was talking to Peter and it applies to believers(which it does even though they don't commit sin if the don't say that prayer). It still doesn't mean that faith, if applied, fails. Faith failing means you begin to disbelief. Suppose one prays for his faith not to fail after praying for faith healing, why should he go for plan B? Is prayer that useless? According to the bible, faith for healing without medicine can't fail.

Let's look at James 5:14-16, it clearly shows that you don't need medicine to be healed. I ask, if your son happens to be sick, will you practice James 5:14-16? I know you won't because you are ignorant and/or dishonest. Good day and don't mention me again.

majekdom2:
where in the bible is the supernatural classified as things not seen. Show scriptures. You are saying trash. Where in the bible? If you do not have faith in Chelsea, will you go cheer them. If you are a chelsea fan and you don't believe in them will chelsea players be pleased with you? Will they be happy with you?

The faith you are talking about in Chelsea is different from biblical faith in Chelsea.

FAITH IN CHELSEA : I am supporting Chelsea to win BECAUSE I am a die hard fan and/or I believe they have better players.

BIBLICAL FAITH IN CHELSEA: I am supporting Chelsea to BECAUSE I believe, for no reason or evidence, that they would.

Chelsea don't really need my belief in their players, the most important thing is that I join their fan base and buy match tickets. That's what they just need. God, being all sufficient, shouldn't need my faith to be pleased. Maybe he is insecure.

Your comprehensive ability and understanding is most unimpressive

Martinez19:
You are just all about convenience. Let's agree that Jesus was talking to Peter and it applies to believers(which it does even though they don't commit sin if the don't say that prayer). It still doesn't mean that faith, if applied, fails. Faith failing means you begin to disbelief. Suppose one prays for his faith not to fail after praying for faith healing, why should he go for plan B? Is prayer that useless? According to the bible, faith for healing without medicine can't fail.

Let's look at James 5:14-16, it clearly shows that you don't need medicine to be healed. I ask, if your son happens to be sick, will you practice James 5:14-16? I know you won't because you are ignorant and/or dishonest. Good day and don't mention me again.

disbelief means loosing hope, being pessimistic, seeing the cup half empty. All of these have a higher chance of leading to failure thus faith failing has a higher chance leading to a failed result. It's as simple as this. What are you debating really??. Did James 5 tell you not to go to the hospital or take medicine. A prayer of faith will be said, the elders will anoint, the priest will lay his hands, there is no where "no medicine is written". These scriptures were written to affirm belief in the gospel. I have told you this. It doesn't negate or nullify doing the necessary!!

Martinez19:
The faith you are talking about in Chelsea is different from biblical faith in Chelsea.

FAITH IN CHELSEA : I am supporting Chelsea to win BECAUSE I am a die hard fan and/or I believe they have better players.

BIBLICAL FAITH IN CHELSEA: I am supporting Chelsea to BECAUSE I believe, for no reason or evidence, that they would.

Chelsea don't really need my belief in their players, the most important thing is that I join their fan base and buy match tickets. That's what they just need. God, being all sufficient, shouldn't need my faith to be pleased. Maybe he is insecure.

Your comprehensive ability and understanding is most unimpressive

the chelsea is only an example you made which I am following. The no reason is where you have failed to comprehend. You believe in chelsea because you think or you know they have better players. I believe in God because I know he is the creator and the Almighty. This bolded is the reason for my faith just as the reason for your faith is the strength of the players. Stop coming that people don't have reasons because you don't believe in what they believe. It makes you sound silly.

DavidEsq:

Thanks so much.
However, u appear to take trade as preaching, which is not correct because Acts 18:2-4 shows that Paul had a trade (tent making) and he was also a preacher. Also at Matthew 6:33, Jesus Christ made it clear wat our priorities in life must be: which is seeking FIRST God's Kingdom and it's righteousness and all oda things (such as our respective endeavours) will be added to us. Therefore, to say preaching was Stephen's trade is unscriptural, as it wld imply that preaching is a trade (business) from which one expects income but Acts 18:2-4, 2 Thesselonians 3:10 shows it is wrong to say so.
Another implication for ur use of preaching as trade is that it wld encourage the belief that there is a difference between those who preach, as well as those who have a trade. Therefore those who preach do not necessarily have to trade. However, the foregoing scriptures show that a preacher must also have a trade or means of income.
I want you to know that the greatest loss of any believer on earth is not the physical death here but not meeting the creator.
Lastly, at the bolden: how do u mean "meet the creator"? In wat way are we to meet with the creator?
Once again, I thank u for ur time, energy and spiritual endeavour.

Ok, my using TRADE with PREACHING was not literal though, it was an attempt to explain PRIORITY. That is, what he took most important. You will agree with me that most people take their various businesses more important than doing God's work. Even paul who was identified as a tent maker did not make it his PRIORITY rather he kept moving from city to city PREACHING. Most of the the other disciples were also fishermen(they all had somthing doing ofcourse)

MEETING THE CREATOR?
The bible recorded that "It is appointed unto man to die once and after that is judgement"
Life does not end on earth. The flesh might die on earth but the soul(spirit being of man) would return to God for judgement after which the saved soul shall be with God(the creator). No wonder apostle paul said in 2timothy4:7-8 "I have fought a good fight, i have finished my course, i have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me a "CROWN" of righteousness, which the lord, the righteous judge shall give me at that day: and not to me only but unto them that love him.
In the above scripture, paul was expecting a "CROWN" which meant going to be with God(the creator). That is the only crown promised every believer.
Again, while stephen was about to be stoned, he looked up and saw the throne of God with Jesus standing by the right hand of God. This revelation was a confirmation that he was being welcomed to heaven to be with God(the creator)

John14:2-4 Jesus said to his disciples "MY FATHERS HOUSE HAS MANY MANSIONS, HE WAS GOING THERE TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR THEM AND IF HE GOES AND PREPARE A PLACE FOR THEM, HE WILL COME BACK AND TAKE THEM TO BE WITH HIM"

Ofcourse, we also know "My fathers house" meant heaven and "To be with him" equally means being with God(the creator)

bigocean:
Ok, my using TRADE with PREACHING was not literal though, it was an attempt to explain PRIORITY. That is, what he took most important. You will agree with me that most people take their various businesses more important than doing God's work. Even paul who was identified as a tent maker did not make it his PRIORITY rather he kept moving from city to city PREACHING. Most of the the other disciples were also fishermen(they all had somthing doing ofcourse)

MEETING THE CREATOR?
The bible recorded that "It is appointed unto man to die once and after that is judgement"
Life does not end on earth. The flesh might die on earth but the soul(spirit being of man) would return to God for judgement after which the saved soul shall be with God(the creator). No wonder apostle paul said in 2timothy4:7-8 "I have fought a good fight, i have finished my course, i have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me a "CROWN" of righteousness, which the lord, the righteous judge shall give me at that day: and not to me only but unto them that love him.
In the above scripture, paul was expecting a "CROWN" which meant going to be with God(the creator). That is the only crown promised every believer.
Again, while stephen was about to be stoned, he looked up and saw the throne of God with Jesus standing by the right hand of God. This revelation was a confirmation that he was being welcomed to heaven to be with God(the creator)

John14:2-4 Jesus said to his disciples "MY FATHERS HOUSE HAS MANY MANSIONS, HE WAS GOING THERE TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR THEM AND IF HE GOES AND PREPARE A PLACE FOR THEM, HE WILL COME BACK AND TAKE THEM TO BE WITH HIM"

Ofcourse, we also know "My fathers house" meant heaven and "To be with him" equally means being with God(the creator)

Hm. Thanks so much. So u mean that the earth is not a final place of habitation but a place of transition? Do animals have a soul that also goes to heaven after death? I'm asking because, when God made man, man was not susceptible to death. Is dat correct? If yes, then at what time was man appointed to die and be judged?

majekdom2:
disbelief means loosing hope, being pessimistic, seeing the cup half empty. All of these have a higher chance of leading to failure thus faith failing has a higher chance leading to a failed result. It's as simple as this. What are you debating really??. Did James 5 tell you not to go to the hospital or take medicine. A prayer of faith will be said, the elders will anoint, the priest will lay his hands, there is no where "no medicine is written". These scriptures were written to affirm belief in the gospel. I have told you this. It doesn't negate or nullify doing the necessary!!

There is no where "medicine is essential" is written. If medicine was important and necessary, it would have been written.

Martinez19:
There is no where "medicine is essential" is written. If medicine was important and necessary, it would have been written.

is there anywhere '' pray before using this drug'' is written on drugs?? this is because it is not what they are attending to at that time. have you forgotten the scripture'' is there no balm in Gilead, is there no physician there?? The bible does not negate medicine.... please read and understand. stop being frustrated and being an ex christian because you lack insight.

majekdom2:
the chelsea is only an example you made which I am following. The no reason is where you have failed to comprehend. You believe in chelsea because you think or you know they have better players. I believe in God because I know he is the creator and the Almighty. This bolded is the reason for my faith just as the reason for your faith is the strength of the players. Stop coming that people don't have reasons because you don't believe in what they believe. It makes you sound silly.

@bolded
Let me explain in details.
FAITH IN CHELSEA
1) I believe that Chelsea will beat West Ham.
2) My reasons is that they have better players (a good criterion).
3) I know this from looking at the statistics, their pervious games and squad (a good basis).
4) I don't rule out the possibility that an upset can occur(not certain and willing to admit my analysis and forcast can fail to match the eventual result).

BIBLICAL FAITH IN CHELSEA(let's assume that Chelsea will beat West Ham was written in the bible because that's the only way to have biblical faith in Chelsea).
1) I believe then KNOW that Chelsea will beat West Ham.
2) My reason is that the bible says so.
3) I know this because the bible is true.
4) I know the bible is true because I believe it to be true by faith. (failed and bad basis that provides no good criterion and renders 2&3 useless and invalid)
5) there is no possibility that chelsea will lose the match since the bible says so(no good reason and unreasonably dogmatic).

@red
How did you know that he exist? How did you know he is the creator and almighty? How did you know that he is the christian god? Why not the Muslim god?
You clearly have no concrete basis to conclude that a God exists; his is the almighty and creator and he is the christian. You believe and then know because of faith (believing and accepting without evidence). That faith is the substance and evidence of your belief in god's existence and his supposed attributes. This is pure stupidity and silliness.

Martinez19:

@bolded
Let me explain in details.
FAITH IN CHELSEA
1) I believe that Chelsea will beat West Ham.
2) My reasons is that they have better players (a good criterion).
3) I know this from looking at the statistics, their pervious games and squad (a good basis).
4) I don't rule out the possibility that an upset can occur(not certain and willing to admit my analysis and forcast can fail to match the eventual result).

BIBLICAL FAITH IN CHELSEA(let's assume that Chelsea will beat West Ham was written in the bible because that's the only way to have biblical faith in Chelsea).
1) I believe then KNOW that Chelsea will beat West Ham.
2) My reason is that the bible says so.
3) I know this because the bible is true.
4) I know the bible is true because I believe it to be true by faith. (failed and bad basis that provides no good criterion and renders 2&3 useless and invalid)
5) there is no possibility that chelsea will lose the match since the bible says so(no good reason and unreasonably dogmatic).

@red
How did you know that he exist? How did you know he is the creator and almighty? How did you know that he is the christian god? Why not the Muslim god?
You clearly have no concrete basis to conclude that a God exists; his is the almighty and creator and he is the christian. You believe and then know because of faith (believing and accepting without evidence). That faith is the substance and evidence of your belief in god's existence and his supposed attributes. This is pure stupidity and silliness.

hahaha, you are only trying to make yourself feel good in your misery. Like I told you, the fact that you don’t believe what others believe does not nullify the other person’s belief. Now you wanna go the way “ let’s prove God’s existence” I have told you that’s the reasons and basis of Christian faith. Don’t worry, the challenges will pass and you will be calm me “ex Christian” who has read the Bible thoroughly. You go tey there

majekdom2:
is there anywhere '' pray before using this drug'' is written on drugs?? this is because it is not what they are attending to at that time. have you forgotten the scripture'' is there no balm in Gilead, is there no physician there?? The bible does not negate medicine.... please read and understand. stop being frustrated and being an ex christian because you lack insight.

Scientists know it's not useful and necessary to pray before taking a drug. Drugs will do their function whether you pray or not so no need to write "pray before using this drug". Example of things that are useful and/or necessary and therefore added are "store in a cool dry place", "keep out of children's reach", dosage and age restrictions, preparation(if necessary), ingredients (for knowledge and if you have possible allergies to the ingredients), "keep out of sun light" etc.

Stop being stupid and plain silly.

majekdom2:
hahaha, you are only trying to make yourself feel good in your misery. Like I told you, the fact that you don’t believe what others believe does not nullify the other person’s belief. Now you wanna go the way “ let’s prove God’s existence” I have told you that’s the reasons and basis of Christian faith. Don’t worry, the challenges will pass and you will be calm me “ex Christian” who has read the Bible thoroughly. You go tey there

SMH, what makes you think I am miserable and struggling in life? So if someone is an atheist and asks for then you conclude that the person is passing through tough and miserable times in life? Isn't this stupid?

@bolded
True but that doesn't mean that they are right either and that doesn't mean I can't recognise if you have a good basis for your beliefs or not.

@blue
It's true that the basis of christianity is the belief in the existence of god(yahweh) but what's the basis of the belief in the existence of god? Give me a good answer.

You are just being dishonest and/or silly.
SMH

Martinez19:
Scientists know it's not useful and necessary to pray before taking a drug. Drugs will do their function whether you pray or not so no need to write "pray before using this drug". Example of things that are useful and/or necessary and therefore added are "store in a cool dry place", "keep out of children's reach", dosage and age restrictions, preparation(if necessary), ingredients (for knowledge and if you have possible allergies to the ingredients), "keep out of sun light" etc.

Stop being stupid and plain silly.

you didn’t answer the scripture. My post was only to make you silly as you mentioned there is no where medicine is approved in that chapter.

Martinez19:
SMH, what makes you think I am miserable and struggling in life? So if someone is an atheist and asks for then you conclude that the person is passing through tough and miserable times in life? Isn't this stupid?

@bolded
True but that doesn't mean that they are right either and that doesn't mean I can't recognise if you have a good basis for your beliefs or not.

@blue
It's true that the basis of christianity is the belief in the existence of god(yahweh) but what's the basis of the belief in the existence of god? Give me a good answer.

You are just being dishonest and/or silly.
SMH

your basis are not needed here as that’s not what the thread is about. I came defining the literal meaning of faith which applies to religion and non religion. The argument is not about the basis of existence of God. It’s about the meaning of faith. You came with “Christians don’t have a reason” but now you have agreed to the reason I gave and that’s the belief in God. Whether it’s silly to you or makes sense it’s none of my business. We have established the fact there has to be a reason or belief for faith to exist. This is something you missed and thought the Christian faith didn’t have. They have but it does not make sense to you and your likes and this making sense thought doesn’t really matter you know. Ofcourse if you are not in misery, you won’t come wanting to preach that another man’s belief is silly or looking for proves of God’s existence. When it’s something you know has been debated without results. It annoys me when I see your likes tell me to go read bible again, claim to be ex Christians and now believe there is no God. So why did you accept Jesus, read the whole bible in the first instance. Did they put your sense in a snail shell when you did

majekdom2:
you didn’t answer the scripture. My post was only to make you silly as you mentioned there is no where medicine is approved in that chapter.

Oh! I forgot the scripture. Now, the bible never said "when you are sick, go take the balm of gilead" in fact I don't remember you taking the balm of gilead when you have malaria. I didn't say that the bible doesn't approve of medicine instead I said there is no where the bible said medicine is important and essential for healing. In fact the bible doesn't reject medicine neither did it claim it is to be embraced and essential for healing. However, the bible makes it clear that faith is important and SUFFICIENT. You are beginning to behave and sound like butterflyleo.

I think you are being stupid or you are being dishonest or rascally. Go and read your bible.

Martinez19:
Oh! I forgot the scripture. Now, the bible never said "when you are sick, go take the balm of gilead" in fact I don't remember you taking the balm of gilead when you have malaria. I didn't say that the bible doesn't approve of medicine instead I said there is no where the bible said medicine is important and essential for healing. In fact the bible doesn't reject medicine neither did it claim it is to be embraced and essential for healing. However, the bible makes it clear that faith is important and SUFFICIENT. You are beginning to behave and sound like butterflyleo.

I think you are being stupid or you are being dishonest or rascally. Go and read your bible.

the bolded is what I want to hear you admit and confess. Yes, The bible is for the gospel, faith being part of the gospel thus the reason for citing it as important and sufficient spiritually. A medical book with its prescription may be sufficient medically... you get it now!

majekdom2:
the bolded is what I want to hear you admit and confess. Yes, The bible is for the gospel, faith being part of the gospel thus the reason for citing it as important and sufficient spiritually. A medical book with its prescription may be sufficient medically... you get it now!

SMH. Cunning man. I or the bible never said SPIRITUALLY sufficient alone, you invented that. Faith healing encompasses both physical and spiritual because God, in the spiritual, supplies the power and the healing takes place in the physical, the bible says faith is sufficient for that process to occur successfully so why discourage or get worked up over the use of faith alone? Answer!

Since the bible neither embraced nor reject the necessity, importance and assistance of modern medicine, using modern medicine is a choice to the believer because you must note that faith is regarded as entirely sufficient. Therefore you have no good biblical basis to say that medicine is a must for the believer.

You lack an impressive comprehensive ability or perhaps you are being dishonesty and playing mental gymnastics.

majekdom2:
your basis are not needed here as that’s not what the thread is about. I came defining the literal meaning of faith which applies to religion and non religion. The argument is not about the basis of existence of God. It’s about the meaning of faith. You came with “Christians don’t have a reason” but now you have agreed to the reason I gave and that’s the belief in God. Whether it’s silly to you or makes sense it’s none of my business. We have established the fact there has to be a reason or belief for faith to exist. This is something you missed and thought the Christian faith didn’t have. They have but it does not make sense to you and your likes and this making sense thought doesn’t really matter you know. Ofcourse if you are not in misery, you won’t come wanting to preach that another man’s belief is silly or looking for proves of God’s existence. When it’s something you know has been debated without results. It annoys me when I see your likes tell me to go read bible again, claim to be ex Christians and now believe there is no God. So why did you accept Jesus, read the whole bible in the first instance. Did they put your sense in a snail shell when you did

shifting the goal post. You are a liar. I emphasised in my detailed explanation(using the example of faith in Chelsea's victory over West Ham) that you have a reason but that reason has a bad basis(which is equivalent to no concrete basis) from which no one can drew a reasonable conclusion.

Martinez19:
SMH. Cunning man. I or the bible never said SPIRITUALLY sufficient alone, you invented that. Faith healing encompasses both physical and spiritual because God, in the spiritual, supplies the power and the healing takes place in the physical, the bible says faith is sufficient for that process to occur successfully so why discourage or get worked up over the use of faith alone? Answer!

Since the bible neither embraced nor reject the necessity, importance and assistance of modern medicine, using modern medicine is a choice to the believer because you must note that faith is regarded as entirely sufficient. Therefore you have no good biblical basis to say that medicine is a must for the believer.

You lack an impressive comprehensive ability or perhaps you are being dishonesty and playing mental gymnastics.

I never said modern medicine is a must. I think you are the one with comprehension problems here... it’s a choice and it’s common sense to apply modern medicine.

Martinez19:
shifting the goal post. You are a liar. I emphasised in my detailed explanation(using the example of faith in Chelsea's victory over West Ham) that you have a reason but that reason has a bad basis(which is equivalent to no concrete basis) from which no one can drew a reasonable conclusion.

again, the bad basis thought is your opinion and view. You can’t force it on me

majekdom2:
again, the bad basis thought is your opinion and view. You can’t force it on me

The fact that I cannot force it on you has no bearing on it's validity. The fact that you reject my view and opinion has no bearing on their validity. Fact remains that christianity has a bad and unsound basis. A bad and unsound basis is not a concrete basis. Christianity has no concrete basis.

#fact

majekdom2:
I never said modern medicine is a must. I think you are the one with comprehension problems here... it’s a choice and it’s common sense to apply modern medicine.

Of course it's common sense to apply medicine and as you have admitted, it's a choice . Very good .

@bolded
Really?! Then why were you getting worked up and countering me when I said faith alone is sufficient for successful healing?

DavidEsq:

Hm. Thanks so much. So u mean that the earth is not a final place of habitation but a place of transition? Do animals have a soul that also goes to heaven after death? I'm asking because, when God made man, man was not susceptible to death. Is dat correct? If yes, then at what time was man appointed to die and be judged?

lol, animals dont have any soul. According to GEN1:26
Then God said, "let us make mankind in our IMAGE, in our LIKENESS, so that they may RULE over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the CREATURES that move along the ground"
So, man was actually made in the "IMAGE and LIKENESS" of God and we know God is SPIRIT.

The main purpose of creating man was to take DOMINION over everyother thing on earth(more like a caretaker). Unfortunately man lost his DOMINION over satan on earth when he obeyed satan against God's instruction not to eat the fruit from a certain tree.
This disobedience made man a slave to satan but God loved man so much he didnt want to destroy him. Sin had come into the world, for satan now holds the DOMINION which was first given to man over the earth. Sin(satan) was now the master of man. Man was not worthy to be in the presence of God anymore, he was driven out of the garden where God's presence had been with him. God became more interested in the soul(spirit) of man, Flesh became IMMORTAL.
Flesh was not worthy to be in God's presence. For this, flesh cannot live forever it has to give way for the soul(spirit) to return to its maker; and when it does return it shall stand in judgement to confirm it didn't work in accordance to the direction of the flesh.

bigocean:
lol, animals dont have any soul. According to GEN1:26
Then God said, "let us make mankind in our IMAGE, in our LIKENESS, so that they may RULE over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the CREATURES that move along the ground"
So, man was actually made in the "IMAGE and LIKENESS" of God and we know God is SPIRIT.

The main purpose of creating man was to take DOMINION over everyother thing on earth(more like a caretaker). Unfortunately man lost his DOMINION over satan on earth when he obeyed satan against God's instruction not to eat the fruit from a certain tree.
This disobedience made man a slave to satan but God loved man so much he didnt want to destroy him. Sin had come into the world, for satan now holds the DOMINION which was first given to man over the earth. Sin(satan) was now the master of man. Man was not worthy to be in the presence of God anymore, he was driven out of the garden where God's presence had been with him. [b]God became more interested in the soul(spirit) of man, Flesh became IMMORTAL.
Flesh was not worthy to be in God's presence. [/b]For this, flesh cannot live forever it has to give way for the soul(spirit) to return to its maker; and when it does return it shall stand in judgement to confirm it didn't work in accordance to the direction of the flesh.

U didn't back these up with scriptures o!

bigocean:
lol, animals dont have any soul. According to GEN1:26
Then God said, "let us make mankind in our IMAGE, in our LIKENESS, so that they may RULE over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the CREATURES that move along the ground"
So, man was actually made in the "IMAGE and LIKENESS" of God and we know God is SPIRIT.

The main purpose of creating man was to take DOMINION over everyother thing on earth(more like a caretaker). Unfortunately man lost his DOMINION over satan on earth when he obeyed satan against God's [/b]instruction not to eat the fruit from a certain tree.
This disobedience made man a slave to satan but God loved man so much he didnt want to destroy him. Sin had come into the world, for satan now holds the DOMINION which was first given to man over the earth. Sin(satan) was now the master of man. Man was not worthy to be in the presence of God anymore, he was driven out of the garden where God's presence had been with him. [b]God became more interested in the soul(spirit) of man, Flesh became IMMORTAL.
Flesh was not worthy to be in God's presence. For this, flesh cannot live forever it has to give way for the soul(spirit) to return to its maker; and when it does return it shall stand in judgement to confirm it didn't work in accordance to the direction of the flesh.

U did not back it up with scriptures, pls.

Martinez19:
You are just all about convenience. Let's agree that Jesus was talking to Peter and it applies to believers(which it does even though they don't commit sin if the don't say that prayer). It still doesn't mean that faith, if applied, fails. Faith failing means you begin to disbelief. Suppose one prays for his faith not to fail after praying for faith healing, why should he go for plan B? Is prayer that useless? According to the bible, faith for healing without medicine can't fail.

Let's look at James 5:14-15, it clearly shows that you don't need medicine to be healed. I ask, if your son happens to be sick, will you practice James 5:14-15? I know you won't because you are ignorant and/or dishonest. Good day and don't mention me again.

Pls that scripture does not apply to physical sickness. If u look at the last line in verse 15, it says "also if he has committed sins he wld be forgiven".
This is not the case wr Jesus forgave the sins of the man sick of palsy. because it was Jesus himself who had not yet offered himself as a sacrificial lamb that made that statement and that was why he told the Pharisees that the power to forgive sins ws upon him.
The scripture in James is telling us the importance of confessing our sins to the elders (not pastors which is being wrongly used, as the bible never provided for pastors) who preside over the congregation. To buttress my point, look at verse 16. It is a conclusion of verse 15 which says "therefore, openly confess ur sins to one another.....". He made it clear that confession of one's sins is the basis of "healing". What type of healing requires a prior confession as a condition manifestation? In all bible records, there is none. So what James was talking about is spiritual healing, freeness of speech, as a result of a clear conscience an keeping the congregation clean.

DavidEsq:

U did not back it up with scriptures, pls.

GOD IS SPIRIT
John4:24(kjv) :- God is a spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

MAN LOST DOMINION OVER THE WORLD
2corinthians4:4(NLT) :- Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who dont believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the goodnews that is shinning upon them. They dont understand the message we preach about the glory of christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

ADAM-SATAN-SIN-DEATH
Romans5:12(NLV) :- when adam sinned, sin entered the world. Sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

(NIV) :- Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

DavidEsq:

Pls that scripture does not apply to physical sickness. If u look at the last line in verse 15, it says "also if he has committed sins he wld be forgiven".
This is not the case wr Jesus forgave the sins of the man sick of palsy. because it was Jesus himself who had not yet offered himself as a sacrificial lamb that made that statement and that was why he told the Pharisees that the power to forgive sins ws upon him.
The scripture in James is telling us the importance of confessing our sins to the elders (not pastors which is being wrongly used, as the bible never provided for pastors) who preside over the congregation. To buttress my point, look at verse 16. It is a conclusion of verse 15 which says "therefore, openly confess ur sins to one another.....". He made it clear that confession of one's sins is the basis of "healing". What type of healing requires a prior confession as a condition manifestation? In all bible records, there is none. So what James was talking about is spiritual healing, freeness of speech, as a result of a clear conscience an keeping the congregation clean.

mtewwww.

bigocean:
GOD IS SPIRIT
John4:24(kjv) :- God is a spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

MAN LOST DOMINION OVER THE WORLD
2corinthians4:4(NLT) :- Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who dont believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the goodnews that is shinning upon them. They dont understand the message we preach about the glory of christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

ADAM-SATAN-SIN-DEATH
Romans5:12(NLV) :- when adam sinned, sin entered the world. Sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

(NIV) :- Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

Since u didn't give me a scripture that says man lost DOMINION OVER SATAN, we can conveniently say that there is no scriptural basis for that opinion, so it is baseless to hold such opinion, because what God gave man dominion over was the earth and satan had not been thrown to the earth at that time. Job 2:2, Revelation 1:1 and 12:9-12 tells us so.
If God later preferred man's soul as u put it, without a scripture to back it up, why did God tell Adam in Gen 2:16 that man wld die? If God was talking about just flesh that would die, why did God say in Gen 3:19 that man is made from dust and that man's origin and destination (as a result of disobedience) is both dust. This is the same man in Gen 2:7, which identifies man as a soul (not as having a soul). That is to say, the word "soul" means "a living person" and not that a living person has a soul. The Greek translation for soul is "breathing creature", "nephesh". And if God who made man says that man is from dust and that he wld return to the dust, why do we say otherwise. God did not tell man that when he dies, he wld require man's soul. No! In fact, I discovered that ecclesiastics 3:18-20 identifies man as having no advantage over animals. That man and animal die and go to the same place.
Ur opinion that God began to prefer man's soul after the fall of man, suggests that God abandoned his original purpose of man?
If I may ask u, what is this original purpose that God had for man, according to the bible?
Thanks again for ur noble responses. I wld be grateful for an explanation on the above.

DavidEsq:

Since u didn't give me a scripture that says man lost DOMINION OVER SATAN, we can conveniently say that there is no scriptural basis for that opinion, so it is baseless to hold such opinion, because what God gave man dominion over was the earth and satan had not been thrown to the earth at that time. Job 2:2, Revelation 1:1 and 12:9-12 tells us so.
If God later preferred man's soul as u put it, without a scripture to back it up, why did God tell Adam in Gen 2:16 that man wld die? If God was talking about just flesh that would die, why did God say in Gen 3:19 that man is made from dust and that man's origin and destination (as a result of disobedience) is both dust. This is the same man in Gen 2:7, which identifies man as a soul (not as having a soul). That is to say, the word "soul" means "a living person" and not that a living person has a soul. The Greek translation for soul is "breathing creature", "nephesh". And if God who made man says that man is from dust and that he wld return to the dust, why do we say otherwise. God did not tell man that when he dies, he wld require man's soul. No! In fact, I discovered that ecclesiastics 3:18-20 identifies man as having no advantage over animals. That man and animal die and go to the same place.
Ur opinion that God began to prefer man's soul after the fall of man, suggests that God abandoned his original purpose of man?
If I may ask u, what is this original purpose that God had for man, according to the bible?
Thanks again for ur noble responses. I wld be grateful for an explanation on the above.

hmmn, from your argument I deduce you have access to the Bible but what I don't know is if you are a believer; if you are, have you received the holy spirit?
JOHN 14:26
but the advocate, the holy spirit whom the father will send in my name will TEACH you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

See, the Bible needs to be read in company of the holy spirit. It's not like the random literature text. Every sentence in it has deep meaning that only the holy spirit can explain.

That been said, MATTHEW10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the BODY but cannot kill the SOUL. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both SOUL and BODY

LUKE16:22
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, "father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire "

The above scripture is talking about people who were already dead on earth and whose bodies we're buried by their loved one's on earth. Ofcourse we know Abraham died and was buried on earth. yet there was his soul, in heaven and Lazarus with him and also the rich man(though in hell). But the point is that their soul existed after the body died.

bigocean:
hmmn, from your argument I deduce you have access to the Bible but what I don't know is if you are a believer; if you are, have you received the holy spirit?
JOHN 14:26
but the advocate, the holy spirit whom the father will send in my name will TEACH you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

See, the Bible needs to be read in company of the holy spirit. It's not like the random literature text. Every sentence in it has deep meaning that only the holy spirit can explain.

That been said, MATTHEW10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the BODY but cannot kill the SOUL. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both SOUL and BODY

LUKE16:22
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, "father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire "

The above scripture is talking about people who were already dead on earth and whose bodies we're buried by their loved one's on earth. Ofcourse we know Abraham died and was buried on earth. yet there was his soul, in heaven and Lazarus with him and also the rich man(though in hell). But the point is that their soul existed after the body died.

Hm.....was Abraham really in heaven then? The bible records that lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom, not heaven. If Abraham was in heaven then, why did Jesus not affirm that in John 3:13? Besides, Jesus did not say that the rich man was a sinner, neither did he say lazarus was a righteous man. His parables wr always clear and it is not for us t assume facts into it. In fact, the bible records that neither the righteous nor his children beg for bread.
As for the oda scriptures which I cited, do u have any spiritual understanding of them? Has the Holy Spirit explained them to u beyond their purport?
Don't u think those scriptures shld not be ignored by u, when u consider 2 Timothy 3:16?
Is John 3:13 not in line with ecclesiastics 3:18-20 and Gen 3:19?
Is the scriptures self contradictory?
Isaiah 1:18 tells us that God respects and encourages our human type of reasoning. In fact, if we are made in china image of God, would it not be improper to say we cannot reason with the scriptures?
At Matthew 10:28, was Jesus talking about punishments in Hell and reward in heaven? From verse 24-27, we see Jesus talking about the need for his disciples to be bold and not fearful. That just as he was persecuted, so also will they be persecuted and so they should not fear wat man can do to them, since man can only kill them but God can make them alive thru the resurrection and can also not make dem alive by not resurrecting them. If a man is a resurrected, he is destroyed forever. That is why the book of Revelations calls that fire th 2nd death (out of which there is no resurrection). Why is this so? The fire Jesus Christ was referring to is known as Gehenna in the Hebrew language which was the language spoken by the Jews and Jesus Christ never referred to anything that did not have a symbolic representation on earth, as he needed his disciples to understand his teachings and illustrations.
In the valley of hinnon, southwest of Jerusalem, the book of 2 kings 23:10, we learn that a fire was built in the valley of hinnom where the isrealites made th sons and daughters to passed thru fire and to also be sacrificed in fire to a god called molech.
Later history tells us that that fire became the place to burning refuse and that fire blazed both night and day. It was also a place wr the bodies of condemned criminal and persons who died of chronic contagious ailments burned. Nothing alive was ever put in that fire. But wateva was put there did not come out and wld never b removed. I crave ur indulgence to Google "gehenna Hebrews". Sharon Baker in her book, Razing Hell, provides this description:

“[b]Well before the time of Jesus, the valley was also used as a refuse heap. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. The fire never went out. It smoldered there beneath the surface, incinerating the rotting, smelly garbage. New garbage was piled on top of the old decaying garbage: rotting fish, slimy vegetation, decaying human refuse of every imaginable sort. And as you know from experience, a dump without flies is a dump without garbage. The flies laid eggs on the surface of the dump. So just imagine the hundreds of thousands of squirmy, wormy maggots living there, eating the rotting refuse. All the while, under the surface, the fire still burned, devouring the putrid garbage days and weeks past.

It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. In times of war, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting garbage—imagine the vile vision. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, his hearers would think of the valley of rotting, worm-infested garbage, where the fire always burned, smoke always lingered, and if the wind blew just right, a smell that sickened the sense wafed in the air.” (pp. 129-30)[/b].
So Jesus used that as a example of permanent destruction with no hope of resurrection. I want us to also look at Jude 7-9. Pls let's discuss that when when return from church.

bigocean:
hmmn, from your argument I deduce you have access to the Bible but what I don't know is if you are a believer; if you are, have you received the holy spirit?
JOHN 14:26
but the advocate, the holy spirit whom the father will send in my name will TEACH you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

See, the Bible needs to be read in company of the holy spirit. It's not like the random literature text. Every sentence in it has deep meaning that only the holy spirit can explain.

That been said, MATTHEW10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the BODY but cannot kill the SOUL. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both SOUL and BODY

LUKE16:22
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, "father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire "

The above scripture is talking about people who were already dead on earth and whose bodies we're buried by their loved one's on earth. Ofcourse we know Abraham died and was buried on earth. yet there was his soul, in heaven and Lazarus with him and also the rich man(though in hell). But the point is that their soul existed after the body died.

If God began to prefer man's "soul", due to the fall of man, doesn't that mean that God has abandoned his purpose for man living on earth without dying? The book of Isaiah 55:11 tells us that God always fulfils his purpose no matter what. So we can conclude that God has not abandoned that purpose of man living in the flesh without dying and u wld agree with me if u see Psalms 37:10,29.
Now, wat does the parable of the rich possibly mean? Prior to verse 19, u see Jesus having a talk with the pharisees and the latter wr mocking him and Jesus response to them was in verse 14, 15, which was that they declared themselves righteous before men. We also find this self purity in Matthew 6:2, Matthew 23:27,28 and Luke 18:9 and Jesus told them that they are disgusting in God's sight. This shows two pictures: (1) th pharisees who saw themselves as righteous and (2) the people who the pharisees considered as disgusting. However, Jesus told them at verse 16 and 17 that "every sort of person(i.e, even the people who the pharisees treated badly and exploited" is now pressing forward towards the kingdom. What wld that mean for the pharisees? It would
It would mean that there would be a reversal of status: the ppl having known the truth would no longer see the Pharisees as bearers of the truth and the people would be on God's favour (which is the meaning of Abraham's bosom, vis-a-vis John 3:13) but the Pharisees wld be forever tormented by the message of truth and the loss of their lofty position. U may see also, Matthew 8:11,12.
2 Timothy 3:16 is an encouragement to us, that we shld let the bible answer our questions. But we can't have these answers if we don't ask questions.
Even socrates said "an unexamined life is not worth living". Is that statement not also in line with Isaiah 1:18, Ephesians 5:17, Proverbs 2:3-5 and Proverbs 28:5?
Sori for the plenty of scriptures. As a bible student, I try to critically look at the scriptures and ask questions.
Would it surprise u to know what Hebrews 7:12 implies? I'm enjoying this discussion. Hope u are also.