You're free to say whatever comes to your mind my friends, remember i'm a Christian so i'm used to insults, abuses even persecution!
We're not talking about subjects we study in schools where the textbooks must be REVISED and CHANGED from time to time, we're discussing on how to cohabit or live together in peace and security!
God said "I created everything so for YOU to survive, you'll need my guidance" Isaiah 1:18,48:17,18
For instance, you must comply totally with all the rules of any country if you want to become a citizen, likewise God is giving all the inhabitants of the earth a manual to study in order to be happy inhabitants on earth! Psalms 1:1-3
What all ATHEISTS are using as excuse for their choice or decision is the countless atrocities committed in the past by those claiming to be worshippers of God, but you're discarding what i'm trying to help you understand which is MISINFORMATION and MISREPRESENTATION!
Please feel free to utter whatever comes to your mind right now,because i really need it in fact i'll appreciate it much more than when you're keeping it behind.
I'm a Christian, if you say "stupid idiot senseless fool, do you think this thing could work?"
The emphasis is not the insults, those ones came in due to annoyance, what matters to a Christian is the main question " do you think this thing could work?" So a REAL Christian will help you erase the insults and focus on your question!
Please i'll really appreciate it if you're speaking naturally as in your very self. Thanks!

MuttleyLaff:


This isnt calling you a mumu TATIME
but it's reproduced here just as a FYI

You're welcome anytime my friend.
Well you may not understand my point but it's necessary if i should analyze what i summarized as worship!
When people say worship,what comes to your mind?
Is it some bowing or making sacrifices on alters?
Please when the TRUE God was telling HIS worshippers about things relating to worship, HE made it clear that ordinarily succumbing to sexual appetites means worshipping our sexual desires. For instance a person addicted to ponography is already worshipping another god! Ordinarily succumbing to drunkenness is tantamount to idolatry! Colossians 3:5
So if you're always following the teachings and philosophies of any person, you're indirectly worshipping that person! Jesus of Nazareth keeps telling His listeners that what He is teaching is from another higher intelligent being much wiser than Jesus Himself! John 8:28
Churchgoers saying they're worshiping Jesus are TOTALLY confused, because in the right sense if they're worshiping Jesus, they should be doing exactly what He taught. But instead they're worshiping their various religious leaders whose philosophies they're taking in as doctrines! Matthew 15:9
The Bible actually called Jesus God just as Moses because these two individuals are to teach their contemporaries what they need to know regarding way of life! John 1:1 and Exodus 7:1
So in conclusion my friend, God Almighty is the one that taught we HIS Witnesses that whoever is setting standards for others is serving as their God! Psalms 82:1,6
If you're taking the philosophies of Buddha and trying to meditate on how to live by it,then Buddha has become your God!

TATIME:
You're free to say whatever comes to your mind my friends, remember i'm a Christian so i'm used to insults, abuses even persecution!

I did not insult you Tatime. When I insult people deservedly or not, I tend to end up in the hottest part of hell where I get seriously burned so it's in my interest not to. I specifically asked you not to take what I said as an insult because I understand how it can be perceived a one. But if you did take it as an insult, I pray you find it in you to forgive me.

TATIME:
We're not talking about subjects we study in schools where the textbooks must be REVISED and CHANGED from time to time, we're discussing on how to cohabit or live together in peace and security!

Yes, we are "discussing on how to cohabit or live together in peace and security", but we will do so much better if we used our brains.

Textbooks, all learning in fact, "must be REVISED and CHANGED from time to time". We learn this from the Bible too in fact. In the beginning, God was a wrathful God who got jealous, angered quick, cast people out of heaven, drowned them in water, burnt them in fire turned them to salt and so on. But look at the revised and changed God of so much love he gave us his only begotten son in the end! That is change. And if God can change, so must we.

TATIME:
God said "I created everything so for YOU to survive, you'll need my guidance" Isaiah 1:18,48:17,18

Everything, Tatime. The earth, the moon, the sun, all the planets, the Jehova Witness, the Catholic, the pagan, the Buddhist, the atheist, you me, God created them all and we survive!

Unless you're saying God did not create everything?!

TATIME:
For instance, you must comply totally with all the rules of any country if you want to become a citizen, likewise God is giving all the inhabitants of the earth a manual to study in order to be happy inhabitants on earth! Psalms 1:1-3

The Bible can be a "manual to study in order to be happy inhabitants on earth" for children and those of simple minds, but it is not true that it is a book of rules to comply with totally.

To start with, the Pharisees were "compliers", yet Christ said they gave stones and serpents instead of life giving bread. And then there's lots of non-compliers who found favour in the Lord, so to speak as the following shows:

The "Look Lord, that guy over their is not one of us yet he heals in thy name. Tell him to stop! Was a non-complier but Jesus didn't seem to agree.

The Samaritans are non-compliers, yet, Jesus suggested he might enter the KoG before some who complied with their "lord lord".

The term "gnashing of teeth", specifically refers to those who thought they complied, but actually didn't!

The "thank you lord that I am not like that tax-collector over there" is another person who thought he complied, but didn't.

God has not given humans a manual to study in order to be happy inhabitants on earth since the times of Moses with the ten commandments, one could say. After that, we have our knowledge, our experience and our learning too, or we remain slaves in Egypt!

TATIME:
What all ATHEISTS are using as excuse for their choice or decision is the countless atrocities committed in the past by those claiming to be worshippers of God, but you're discarding what i'm trying to help you understand which is MISINFORMATION and MISREPRESENTATION!

Knowledge outside the Bible is not "MISINFORMATION and MISREPRESENTATION", Tatime. In fact, if we did not have that knowledge there would be fewer people on earth today and you and I would not be having this conversation since we are many miles apart. And no, I am not an atheist because of "countless atrocities committed in the past by those claiming to be worshippers of God".

Human beings are just generally atrocious regardless of their beliefs, as you'd find if you read some history, and God people are no less or more atrocious than non-God people, so it would be silly, or ignorant perhaps, to say one is an atheist because of God worshipper atrocities. If you wish to know why I am an atheist, just ask instead of making things up!

Please, do not worry about helping me understand. It's after all not the case that Tatime would go to hell for the sins of buda! Remove the forest in your own eye before measuring the twig in mine!

budaatum:

I did not insult you Tatime. When I insult people deservedly or not, I tend to end up in the hottest part of hell where I get seriously burned so it's in my interest not to. I specifically asked you not to take what I said as an insult because I understand how it can be perceived a one. But if you did take it as an insult, I pray you find it in you to forgive me.

Yes, we are "discussing on how to cohabit or live together in peace and security", but we will do so much better if we used our brains.

Textbooks, all learning in fact, "must be REVISED and CHANGED from time to time". We learn this from the Bible too in fact. In the beginning, God was a wrathful God who got jealous, angered quick, cast people out of heaven, drowned them in water, burnt them in fire turned them to salt and so on. But look at the revised and changed God of so much love he gave us his only begotten son in the end! That is change. And if God can change, so must we.


Everything, Tatime. The earth, the moon, the sun, all the planets, the Jehova Witness, the Catholic, the pagan, the Buddhist, the atheist, you me, God created them all and we survive!

Unless you're saying God did not create everything?!


The Bible can be a "manual to study in order to be happy inhabitants on earth" for children and those of simple minds, but it is not true that it is a book of rules to comply with totally.

To start with, the Pharisees were "compliers", yet Christ said they gave stones and serpents instead of life giving bread. And then there's lots of non-compliers who found favour in the Lord, so to speak as the following shows:

The "Look Lord, that guy over their is not one of us yet he heals in thy name. Tell him to stop! Was a non-complier but Jesus didn't seem to agree.

The Samaritans are non-compliers, yet, Jesus suggested he might enter the KoG before some who complied with their "lord lord".

The term "gnashing of teeth", specifically refers to those who thought they complied, but actually didn't!

The "thank you lord that I am not like that tax-collector over there" is another person who thought he complied, but didn't.

God has not given humans a manual to study in order to be happy inhabitants on earth since the times of Moses with the ten commandments, one could say. After that, we have our knowledge, our experience and our learning too, or we remain slaves in Egypt!


Knowledge outside the Bible is not "MISINFORMATION and MISREPRESENTATION", Tatime. In fact, if we did not have that knowledge there would be fewer people on earth today and you and I would not be having this conversation since we are many miles apart. And no, I am not an atheist because of "countless atrocities committed in the past by those claiming to be worshippers of God".

Human beings are just generally atrocious regardless of their beliefs, as you'd find if you read some history, and God people are no less or more atrocious than non-God people, so it would be silly, or ignorant perhaps, to say one is an atheist because of God worshipper atrocities. If you wish to know why I am an atheist, just ask instead of making things up!

Please, do not worry about helping me understand. It's after all not the case that Tatime would go to hell for the sins of buda! Remove the forest in your own eye before measuring the twig in mine!

You've read the Bible but you've not STUDY it carefully or let me say thoroughly.
What i'm telling you is unlike what churchgoers will say "you can't understand God's word without the power of the Holy Spirit" that's a lie,what you need is not the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible, what you need is mildness and righteous heart! As for the understanding, it's easy when you're ready to ask thought provoking questions from God's servants!
For instance you quoted God as a changed person from what HE did in the past in comparison to what HE has become now after the coming of Christ. But the TRUTH is God never change HIS standard, it's misunderstanding that's causing all these.
God is still that same person that's willing to EXTERMINATE all those who won't comply TOTALLY with HIS will!
HE promised a time when a representative who knows HIM in and out will live amongst humans to show them how HE feels towards all that man does! Genesis 3:15,28:14,Deuteronomy 18:17-19,Isaiah 9:6
So from the day Adam and Eve turned against HIM, HE has deserted Adam's descendants until Jesus (the promised one)came to teach Adam's descendants how to reconnect with our Creator again!
All what happened during the time of Noah(global deluge),Lot(Sodom and Gomorrah) and the rest are just to prevent the inhabitants as in curb evil deeds of the earth from going to the extreme which could lead to self destruction!
Today after the coming of Jesus (the anointed one) God's anger is still blazing like unquenchable fire against all those who won't comply TOTALLY with the teachings of Jesus, what we're enjoying now is what the Bible refers to as GRACE! Whoever is ignoring Jesus' teachings is already in line for the impending mass destruction of ungodly men! 2Peter 3:5-7
JEHOVAH just wants HIS Witnesses to appear as evidence of WARNING to vindicate HIS holy name as a righteous judge,so no one will say "I never saw your Witnesses (servants)" Matthew 24:14

budaatum:

Please, do not worry about helping me understand. It's after all not the case that Tatime would go to hell for the sins of buda! Remove the forest in your own eye before measuring the twig in mine!

JEHOVAH will not continue to burn defaulters in fire just as the misinformed churchgoers are saying my friend.
What HE planned from the beginning is just what they'll not benefit "living forever as YOUTHS in total peace and security!" So even if a none believer should kill a Christian out of annoyance,Christians will still wish such a person to have a change of heart because both himself and the one he killed angrily will laugh over all these in Paradise IF HE LATER BECOME A CHRISTIAN! But if not he will just die naturally or when God's angels comes to exterminate those who wants to continue with Adam's trait(disobedience).

For more enlightenment about TRUE Christianity, this is what you should be expecting from true Christians and not the spirit of vengeance! Please observe the picture below|

TATIME:
You're welcome anytime my friend.
Well you may not understand my point but it's necessary if i should analyze what i summarized as worship!
When people say worship,what comes to your mind?
Is it some bowing or making sacrifices on alters?
Please when the TRUE God was telling HIS worshippers about things relating to worship, HE made it clear that ordinarily succumbing to sexual appetites means worshipping our sexual desires. For instance a person addicted to ponography is already worshipping another god! Ordinarily succumbing to drunkenness is tantamount to idolatry! Colossians 3:5
So if you're always following the teachings and philosophies of any person, you're indirectly worshipping that person! Jesus of Nazareth keeps telling His listeners that what He is teaching is from another higher intelligent being much wiser than Jesus Himself! John 8:28
Churchgoers saying they're worshiping Jesus are TOTALLY confused, because in the right sense if they're worshiping Jesus, they should be doing exactly what He taught. But instead they're worshiping their various religious leaders whose philosophies they're taking in as doctrines! Matthew 15:9
The Bible actually called Jesus God just as Moses because these two individuals are to teach their contemporaries what they need to know regarding way of life! John 1:1 and Exodus 7:1
So in conclusion my friend, God Almighty is the one that taught we HIS Witnesses that whoever is setting standards for others is serving as their God! Psalms 82:1,6
If you're taking the philosophies of Buddha and trying to meditate on how to live by it,then Buddha has become your God

MuttleyLaff:
"God" as in, first letter capitalization the word,
is different to "god", whatever letter cases the "o" and "d" in god is.
Sorry, God and whatever variant of god don't mean the same thing.
There are similarities, god(s) have with God of course.

Why don't you tell the glutton not to deify the stomach or belly?

Why don't you tell the drunk or alcoholic not to deify beer, spirits, rum, alcohol etcetera?

Why don't you tell the chrematistic, not to deify money?

Why don't you tell the pagan, not to deify the inanimate or not alive object, lying around at his/her shrine?

Why don't you tell the throngs that call out for their posts to make front page,
not to deify the god of Nairaland and/or try to invoke his angels when they regularly pray to the heaven of Nairaland for favours?

Again, dear friend, humans subconsciously and not, deify

I completely concur with this way you've described it & do without any demur

PS: I liked that post with the picture of the snake because the lesson in it first instantly resonated with me
but then I soon after immediately remembered Luke 10:19 talking of Jesus
giving us the authority to trample on snakes & scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; that nothing will harm us.

TATIME:
You've read the Bible but you've not STUDY it carefully or let me say thoroughly.
What i'm telling you is unlike what churchgoers will say "you can't understand God's word without the power of the Holy Spirit" that's a lie,what you need is not the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible, what you need is mildness and righteous heart!

There! For me, whether you are Catholic, or Protestant, or Muslim, or Atheist, or pagan self, an Almighty God would not give a damn. If God did give a damn, only the Israelites would enter his tabernacle, or tent, as some call it. And as far as I would be concerned, "keep your tabernacle God, I'd rather be an atheist. I don't want to enter your racist tent!" For, in my opinion, such a God is very unmighty indeed, and a puny petty racist bigot stupid non-god to boot! If I worship such a God, I must burn in hell! For there is no way I wouldn't think I'm exalted and justified that I am not like the tax-collector, when in truth, I would be a humbled gnashing teeth sinner!

But look at God, or rather, Mr "I did not come to change the law" Jesus Christ. Like somebody who can't find suitable tenants, he lets those tax collectors and pagans and prostitutes and Samaritans and even those damned Gentiles into the KoG, as long as they Psalm 15!

It is written that the wages of sin is death. We atheists will argue that it's not true. And if death were to mean dying literally, we are correct. “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Not just die o, but certainly die! Then they eat, and God reduces their punishment to "severe pains in childbearing and labour" and, "no more free food for you"! And, "you will become dust after 730 years".

A whole 730 years, Tatime! Is that not like everlasting eternity already? What the fuq happened to "when you eat from it you will certainly die”? Was Satan lying when it said, “You will not certainly die”? Did their eyes not open so that they realised they were naked, and did they not learn about "good and evil"? Is it bad to learn about good and evil? Will you, Tatime, not feed your own child the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Is the entire ministry of Jesus Christ not about this so called fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? In fact, does Jesus Christ not embody and mean just that? If I don't learn about good and evil please tell me how I am supposed to know the difference between the two? How do I get to do this "mildness and righteous", "forgive seventy times seven times", turn the other cheek, and Psalm 15. Can ignorant people do any of those things? I doubt anyones child will get far in life if they don't eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil in this current day world!

When it is said that "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life", it is true in a Holy Spirit sense, as you Bible people say. But unfortunately many think believing Jesus is their lord and saviour is all it takes without understanding they are being given stones by serpents! They think God will plant a tree that is not good for consumption. I just wonder what sort of God some people bow down and worship! Those who are justified by their faith and beliefs should go on doing so if it please them and their God. I stand unshaken by the fruit of my works. For my John 3:16 reads, "Those who live wisely and lovingly will live peacefully". And believe me when I say that is enough everlasting life for me. Anything after that, na jara. It is not for nothing that strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

May the Peace of the Lord arrest everyone's hearts and eradicate ignorance from amongst us this Sunday before Christ comes.

budaatum:
There! For me, whether you are Catholic, or Protestant, or Muslim, or Atheist, or pagan self, an Almighty God would not give a damn.
If God did give a damn, only the Israelites would enter his tabernacle, or tent, as some call it.
And as far as I would be concerned, "keep your tabernacle God, I'd rather be an atheist.
I don't want to enter your racist tent!"
For, in my opinion, such a God is very unmighty indeed, and a puny petty racist bigot stupid non-god to boot!
If I worship such a God, I must burn in hell!
For there is no way I wouldn't think I'm exalted and justified that I am not like the tax-collector, when in truth,
I would be a humbled gnashing teeth sinner!

But look at God, or rather, Mr "I did not come to change the law" Jesus Christ.
Like somebody who can't find suitable tenants, he lets those tax collectors and pagans and prostitutes and Samaritans and even those damned Gentiles into the KoG, as long as they Psalm 15!

It is written that the wages of sin is death. We atheists will argue that it's not true.
And if death were to mean dying literally, we are correct.
“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Not just die o, but certainly die!
Then they eat, and God reduces their punishment to "severe pains in childbearing and labour" and, "no more free food for you"!
And, "you will become dust after 730 years".

A whole 730 years, Tatime! Is that not like everlasting eternity already?
What the fuq happened to "when you eat from it you will certainly die”?
Was Satan lying when it said, “You will not certainly die”?
Did their eyes not open so that they realised they were naked, and did they not learn about "good and evil"?
Is it bad to learn about good and evil?
Will you, Tatime, not feed your own child the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
Is the entire ministry of Jesus Christ not about this so called fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
In fact, does Jesus Christ not embody and mean just that?
If I don't learn about good and evil please tell me how I am supposed to know the difference between the two?
How do I get to do this "mildness and righteous", "forgive seventy times seven times", turn the other cheek, and Psalm 15.
Can ignorant people do any of those things?
I doubt anyones child will get far in life if they don't eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil in this current day world!

When it is said that "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life", it is true in a Holy Spirit sense, as you Bible people say.
But unfortunately many think believing Jesus is their lord and saviour is all it takes without understanding they are being given stones by serpents!
They think God will plant a tree that is not good for consumption. I just wonder what sort of God some people bow down and worship!
Those who are justified by their faith and beliefs should go on doing so if it please them and their God.
I stand unshaken by the fruit of my works. For my John 3:16 reads,
"Those who live wisely and lovingly will live peacefully".
And believe me when I say that is enough everlasting life for me.
Anything after that, na jara.
It is not for nothing that strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

May the Peace of the Lord arrest everyone's hearts and eradicate ignorance from amongst us this Sunday before Christ comes.

Face palm. SMH
Why are there unbelievable more holes than in a Swiss cheese in this post?

#IfYouKnowYouKnow
If you know, you know and who no know, no go know

budaatum:

There! For me, whether you are Catholic, or Protestant, or Muslim, or Atheist, or pagan self, an Almighty God would not give a damn. If God did give a damn, only the Israelites would enter his tabernacle, or tent, as some call it. And as far as I would be concerned, "keep your tabernacle God, I'd rather be an atheist. I don't want to enter your racist tent!" For, in my opinion, such a God is very unmighty indeed, and a puny petty racist bigot stupid non-god to boot! If I worship such a God, I must burn in hell! For there is no way I wouldn't think I'm exalted and justified that I am not like the tax-collector, when in truth, I would be a humbled gnashing teeth sinner!

But look at God, or rather, Mr "I did not come to change the law" Jesus Christ. Like somebody who can't find suitable tenants, he lets those tax collectors and pagans and prostitutes and Samaritans and even those damned Gentiles into the KoG, as long as they Psalm 15!

It is written that the wages of sin is death. We atheists will argue that it's not true. And if death were to mean dying literally, we are correct. “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Not just die o, but certainly die! Then they eat, and God reduces their punishment to "severe pains in childbearing and labour" and, "no more free food for you"! And, "you will become dust after 730 years".

A whole 730 years, Tatime! Is that not like everlasting eternity already? What the fuq happened to "when you eat from it you will certainly die”? Was Satan lying when it said, “You will not certainly die”? Did their eyes not open so that they realised they were naked, and did they not learn about "good and evil"? Is it bad to learn about good and evil? Will you, Tatime, not feed your own child the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Is the entire ministry of Jesus Christ not about this so called fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? In fact, does Jesus Christ not embody and mean just that? If I don't learn about good and evil please tell me how I am supposed to know the difference between the two? How do I get to do this "mildness and righteous", "forgive seventy times seven times", turn the other cheek, and Psalm 15. Can ignorant people do any of those things? I doubt anyones child will get far in life if they don't eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil in this current day world!

When it is said that "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life", it is true in a Holy Spirit sense, as you Bible people say. But unfortunately many think believing Jesus is their lord and saviour is all it takes without understanding they are being given stones by serpents! They think God will plant a tree that is not good for consumption. I just wonder what sort of God some people bow down and worship! Those who are justified by their faith and beliefs should go on doing so if it please them and their God. I stand unshaken by the fruit of my works. For my John 3:16 reads, "Those who live wisely and lovingly will live peacefully". And believe me when I say that is enough everlasting life for me. Anything after that, na jara. It is not for nothing that strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

May the Peace of the Lord arrest everyone's hearts and eradicate ignorance from amongst us this Sunday before Christ comes.

That's why i said " you've read the Bible but you've not STUDIED it"
You'll need someone beside you to reason together and question one another while reading, that's when you can understand what you're reading, otherwise you'll continue to make wrong conclusions. READ Proverbs 2:1-5
For instance what God told Adam is "the very day you eat of that fruit, you will positively die" why not ask at least SARCASTICALLY why they(Adam and Eve) lived for almost a thousand years?
Well "a day" to humans is twenty four hours but before the one who said they'll die THE DAY they eat of the tree of good and bad, HIS own ONE day is equivalent of one thousand years before humans. That's why Adam and all his offsprings never lived up to ONE single day in God's eyes! Genesis 5:5 compared to 2Peter 3:8
If a person eats something poisonous that's to kill him within one day,he eats it by 1am and later died by 11pm,will you say the poison didn't do as heard?
Please calm down while asking your questions if truly you're not just an agitator against wisdom!
Take it one by one, please try to show me the stupidity in what the Bible says but don't rush things like barbarians, calm down while asking THOUGHT PROVOKING questions, i'll really appreciate it!

TATIME:
That's why i said " you've read the Bible but you've not STUDIED it"
You'll need someone beside you to reason together and question one another while reading, that's when you can understand what you're reading, otherwise you'll continue to make wrong conclusions. READ Proverbs 2:1-5
For instance what God told Adam is "the very day you eat of that fruit, you will positively die" why not ask at least SARCASTICALLY why they(Adam and Eve) lived for almost a thousand years?
Well "a day" to humans is twenty four hours but before the one who said they'll die THE DAY they eat of the tree of good and bad, HIS own ONE day is equivalent of one thousand years before humans. That's why Adam and all his offsprings never lived up to ONE single day in God's eyes! Genesis 5:5 compared to 2Peter 3:8
If a person eats something poisonous that's to kill him within one day,he eats it by 1am and later died by 11pm,will you say the poison didn't do as heard?
Please calm down while asking your questions if truly you're not just an agitator against wisdom!
Take it one by one, please try to show me the stupidity in what the Bible says but don't rush things like barbarians, calm down while asking THOUGHT PROVOKING questions, i'll really appreciate it!

When the "Lord said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him”.

buda, said, "What the fuq, Lord! Has Moses got two heads?! Is it not you who created buda also? I'm coming up too. And I'm coming near you!"

And so we all went all the way up the mountain, and the Lord gave buda the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father sent to teach all things and bring all things to remembrance.

So why would I need someone to brainwash my head, Tatime? Did that person go up the mountain behind the back of Moses, and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel and buda to receive a different Holy Ghost?

I am calm. I do not rush things. I did not say there was stupidity in what the Bible says. And we are already reasoning and questioning one another. But if you truly think I am "just an agitator against wisdom", we can stop now.

budaatum:

When the "Lord said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him”.

buda, said, "What the fuq, Lord! Has Moses got two heads?! Is it not you who created buda also? I'm coming up too. And I'm coming near you!"

And so we all went all the way up the mountain, and the Lord gave buda the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father sent to teach all things and bring all things to remembrance.

So why would I need someone to brainwash my head, Tatime? Did that person go up the mountain behind the back of Moses, and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel and buda to receive a different Holy Ghost?

I am calm. I do not rush things. I did not say there was stupidity in what the Bible says. And we are already reasoning and questioning one another. But if you truly think I am "just an agitator against wisdom", we can stop now.

I guess i got that question! Why must someone study the Bible with you?
Well two heads are better than one,so if two persons are reasoning together IN RIGHTEOUSNESS they'll become wise!
But if it's why God speaks to someone who will pass the info to others, you yourself knows that if you're not to PASS INFORMATION to some who aren't vigilant enough, there's no reason for you to be on NL!
So God chooses some persons that are capable enough to handle important info in order for such persons to pass the info to those who are conscious of their spiritual needs!

TATIME:
I guess i got that question! Why must someone study the Bible with you? !

I did not ask this question! And in fact believe it is good to study the Bible with others, or is that not what you and I have been doing?

What I am against is some people thinking they have some special ability or a divine right to understand the Bible that others cannot possibly have, or think their understanding is the only correct understanding. It is why I detest being told I do not understand, or was not calm or don't have some special spirit that they claim they have.

If God wants to pass me a message God must know He would have to come down from heaven and give it to me personally, otherwise He would not have created me as the unbelieving atheist that I am.

You may come and study Luke with me if you wish. In studying together, iron sharpens iron and each enriches the other.

budaatum:

I did not ask this question! And in fact believe it is good to study the Bible with others, or is that not what you and I have been doing?

What I am against is some people thinking they have some special ability or a divine right to understand the Bible that others cannot possibly have, or think their understanding is the only correct understanding. It is why I detest being told I do not understand, or was not calm or don't have some special spirit that they claim they have.

If God wants to pass me a message God must know He would have to come down from heaven and give it to me personally, otherwise He would not have created me as the unbelieving atheist that I am.

You may come and study Luke with me if you wish. In studying together, iron sharpens iron and each enriches the other.

God is judging based on the utterances protruding from the mouth of each person my friend. Luke 6:45
If you're truthfully expecting God to "come down from heaven and give you useful information PERSONALLY" then
*why are you reading the Bible in the first place? Because it contains information given to some persons to pen down for our generation. 2Timothy 3:16,17
Do you now see why i said there are more ATHEISTS going to churches than those claiming atheists? For your information, majority of them are also expecting God to speak DIRECTLY to them just like you,that's why they're finding it difficult to OBEY Jesus' words that they can read from the Bible!
So they prefer to go and meet someone else perhaps to teach them "how to hear DIRECTLY from God" when you're seeing them mimicking some strange utterances(speaking in tongue) all they're trying to do is ”speak DIRECTLY to God for a DIRECT response"
I don't have any special powers nor do i possess any special abilities to understand the Bible, all i deed is humble myself to gain KNOWLEDGE from all sides and mildly ask the information carriers THOUGHT PROVOKING questions to ascertain if there is WISDOM in them! Zephaniah 2:2,3
KNOWLEDGE is the accumulation of useful information. But
WISDOM is the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS of accumulated information for lasting benefits.
So if your information is not PRACTICAL, surely it cannot have any lasting benefits it CERTAINLY lacks WISDOM! James 2:18-26
Now you're saying God must speak DIRECTLY to you but why are you trying to speak to others as in inform them on specific things that they can handle their own ways? If truthfully you think God should speak DIRECTLY to everyone, or do you think God should be partial by speaking through budaatum to others as in a SPECIAL person?

@budaatum
Many people in the past have chosen this path of trying to communicate DIRECTLY with God but they all ended up believing there is NO God!
Job was an Oriental, God never spoke DIRECTLY to him before but God's angels were taking note of all his virtuous deeds!
Satan was searching for all those who are trying to be virtuous amongst Adam's descendants, he ran from pillar to post in order to turn everyone away from doing good but his main focus are the Israelites that God is preparing for a special purpose, then God gave Satan a dirty blow! Job is not amongst the Israelites but he is maintaining virtue! Satan said it's because Job is having all the good things of life. To cut the long story short Job never receive any info DIRECTLY from God on all these development until Job conquered Satan's Inquisition. Why? Because God has HIS own program and if you don't come in contact with HIS people, HE has NOTHING to discuss with you! Buddha and many others whose races has NOTHING to do with God's arrangements tried communicating DIRECTLY with God but since HE has NO info to pass through them they ended up speaking to demons!
Today many so called Pastors and Muslim Imams are trying to communicate directly with God without seeking HIS arrangement,they are doing all these for PERSONAL reasons,so even if God's own messengers approach them they'll decline that divine offer!
That's why they've become instruments in the hands of Satan and his demons since those ones are ready to initiate anyone, thus they have become MISREPRESENTATIONS due to the various MISINFORMATION received from the wicked spirit beings (demons) Revelations 16:13,14

@budaatum
The first person who tried to connect with God is called Abel.After his parents were thrown out of Eden they're always seeing the two angels guarding the entrance of the garden,so they can only imagine what could be happening inside and their parents won't tell them how disobedience caused it!
Abel decided to offer a heartfelt sacrifice to God as a sign of wanting to become God's friend, immediately God accepted Abel's friendship, Cain tried the same thing but it was out of envy not something from the heart so God didn't want some forms of worship that's triggered by envy!
God spoke to Cain to correct him,notice that God NEVER spoke with Adam and Eve again after they left Eden,but HE speaking with Cain (not Abel) is a sign of privilege to reconnect with God!
After this event God only look down from heaven to CHOOSE any of Adam's descendants to forward useful information. Before the days of Noah some angels came down living their assignments in heaven only to start forming handsome bodies for themselves in order to enjoy sex with the daughters of men. Genesis 6:1-3
This unnatural relationship led to the birth of wicked giants(Genesis 6:4),None of Adam's descendants including Noah knew what was happening, they can only see giants amongst them causing a lot of havoc.
So God CHOSE Noah as a means of saving Adam's children before HE destroy those giants.
In all of these and many other Biblical events you can't see anyone who CHOOSES to speak DIRECTLY with God, rather HE chooses the person HE wants to use as HIS representative.
So whoever wants God to speak directly with him/her is not running a just course because HE never spoke with those who are presumptuous, HE chooses those that's fitting for the job!
Before Jesus started His ministry, He went to the Jordan to be baptized by John, it's after that event that God CHOSE Jesus with HIS Holy Spirit for the assignment despite all the prophecies about Jesus. Notice that John wanted to decline from baptizing Jesus but Jesus insisted that's how God works! Matthew 3:13-17
So my friend NOBODY decides for the true God how to operate,you only need to search for his program and join those doing it before God will make use of you(in accordance with HIS established program)

TATIME:
HE has NOTHING to discuss with you! Buddha and many others whose races has NOTHING to do with God's arrangements tried communicating DIRECTLY with God but since HE has NO info to pass through them they ended up speaking to demons!

TATIME:
So my friend NOBODY decides for the true God how to operate,you only need to search for his program and join those doing it before God will make use of you(in accordance with HIS established program)

So, you're saying, God has no time or need for me but I should worship him anyway and for some imaginary everlasting life in a hereafter that no one knows exists or not, just take the word of a book and that of some others who claim God sent them?

If by "worship", you mean, love my neighbour, do Samaritan, do some of Exodus 20 and the whole of Psalm 15 and and a lot of Proverbs and learn from the Gospels and the likes, for instance, then yes, buda can worship, gladly. After all, Jesus too said I should have regard for my neighbours here on earth, which is pretty good advice, especially in todays understanding where "neighbours" are just about everyone on earth, plus all the animals, and the universe even. It is quite a lot of 'worship' and worthy of doing to boot.

But if by "worship", you mean, join some congregation to have my brain reprogrammed to discard everything that I do see and start giving my money and my time to bowing to some imaginary figure that no one has seen and singing hosanna clappy hands and and all. Sorry, buda can't do! My eyes will be insulted if I disregard what I see, and I'd probably go insane because my mind will go on strike in anger that I refuse to use it. Even Jesus advised against me bothering about some God in heaven whom I can't see, and I must say, I find his advice pretty worth taking on the whole!

Let me know which you mean by "worship God", please, Tatime.

TATIME:

Now you're saying God must speak DIRECTLY to you but why are you trying to speak to others as in inform them on specific things that they can handle their own ways? If truthfully you think God should speak DIRECTLY to everyone, or do you think God should be partial by speaking through budaatum to others as in a SPECIAL person?

No! I'm not saying God should only speak to me. Nor am I telling anyone to handle anything my way. Or do you think I'm trying to convert you to handle your stuff my way? You can't, Tatime!

If there is a God, and that God created everyone, then that God should perhaps consider communicating with it's creations directly, especially to we atheist who it has created with the ability to not believe in the existence of things we have no evidence for!

budaatum:



So, you're saying, God has no time or need for me but I should worship him anyway and for some imaginary everlasting life in a hereafter that no one knows exists or not, just take the word of a book and that of some others who claim God sent them?

If by "worship", you mean, love my neighbour, do Samaritan, do some of Exodus 20 and the whole of Psalm 15 and and a lot of Proverbs and learn from the Gospels and the likes, for instance, then yes, buda can worship, gladly. After all, Jesus too said I should have regard for my neighbours here on earth, which is pretty good advice, especially in todays understanding where "neighbours" are just about everyone on earth, plus all the animals, and the universe even. It is quite a lot of 'worship' and worthy of doing to boot.

But if by "worship", you mean, join some congregation to have my brain reprogrammed to discard everything that I do see and start giving my money and my time to bowing to some imaginary figure that no one has seen and singing hosanna clappy hands and and all. Sorry, buda can't do! My eyes will be insulted if I disregard what I see, and I'd probably go insane because my mind will go on strike in anger that I refuse to use it. Even Jesus advised against me bothering about some God in heaven whom I can't see, and I must say, I find his advice pretty worth taking on the whole!

Let me know which you mean by "worship God", please, Tatime.

Now you're ready for PURE worship budaatum! Let me say welcome on board to the movement of God's children on earth.
Because the former is exactly what WORSHIP means,the later is what i've been calling MISINFORMATION,for you to worship God in the right sense you must put into consideration all those around you, including the beasts, fishes, birds,trees,ants,worms and your environment.
God doesn't need you bowing your head down before any Goddamn seen or unseen beings,what HE is asking you is to learn how to cohabit with other living creatures in your neighborhood and that's why HE gave us a common textbook (BIBLE) that's ever relevant to all generations of earth's inhabitants!
HE passes the info to maintain our environmental obligations through the first man "Adam" (Genesis 1:36-30)
But Adam chose not to follow that lifesaving info rather he and his wife wants to do as they're pleased in the midst of others without considering the orders from the one who knew the best way to live!
That's the meaning of "EATING from the tree of good and bad" Genesis 2:17 compared to 3:22
Today there is no globally accepted guidebook on how we can cohabit with others like humans, beasts,fish,birds,trees,ants,worms and even no globally accepted treatment for the oxygen we breathe in to survive! All these and many more are what Adam should have passed to us as lifesaving info but since he himself ignored it,how can he teach his children?
So my friend WORSHIP has a deeper meaning than what the misinformed churchgoers and their so called Pastors who are just misrepresentation are spewing all around! Thanks

budaatum:

No! I'm not saying God should only speak to me. Nor am I telling anyone to handle anything my way. Or do you think I'm trying to convert you to handle your stuff my way? You can't, Tatime!

If there is a God, and that God created everyone, then that God should perhaps consider communicating with it's creations directly, especially to we atheist who it has created with the ability to not believe in the existence of things we have no evidence for!

That's a big lie budaatum! ATHEISTS do believe in the existence of so many things they can't see. There are a thousand and one thing that atheists agreed are existing that's INVISIBLE to their eyes simply because they can feel it's presence!
What the founders of ATHEISM are trying to do is "communicate directly with God without caring to observe HIS program or protocol of ORDERLINESS" and since that's not happening, they are trying to discourage others about the existence of God.
You can see the President of your country but how many of the citizens can have a one on one discussion with him? Majority will only speak with his REPRESENTATIVES but no one dare debunk his existence because you can see those enforcing his rules!
God is not such a bully that's why HE is inviting you and i to reason with HIM on the instructional manual HE provided for us all(Bible). Isaiah 1:18,19
For the main time there is a reason why HE won't communicate directly with each of us. It's because there are some spirit beings (demons) who have turned against HIS program, HE will soon exterminate them but before then HE must separate those who are willing to live by HIS guidebook now! 1Peter 3:19,20 Jude 6
This demons are HIS spirit sons (Job 1:6)and they can mimick HIS voice to deceive you and i(2 Samuel 24:1-3,1 Chronicles 21:1) now they're afraid of what's coming to happen to them because they don't know HIS program anymore! Matthew 8:29 compared to 1Peter 1:12
That's why Zephaniah said whoever will escape God's wrath must humble himself and keep seeking for what is right! Zephaniah 2:2,3
Thanks budaatum!

So you agree that worship is love one's neighbour, do Samaritan, do some of Exodus 20 and the whole of Psalm 15 and and a lot of Proverbs and learn from the Gospels and the likes? Is there any reason for you to think an atheist can't understand this?

Do you think I, buda, do not do these things because I am an atheist, Tatime?

TATIME:
Now you're ready for PURE worship budaatum! Let me say welcome on board to the movement of God's children on earth.
Because the former is exactly what WORSHIP means,the later is what i've been calling MISINFORMATION,for you to worship God in the right sense you must put into consideration all those around you, including the beasts, fishes, birds,trees,ants,worms and your environment.
God doesn't need you bowing your head down before any Goddamn seen or unseen beings,what HE is asking you is to learn how to cohabit with other living creatures in your neighborhood and that's why HE gave us a common textbook (BIBLE) that's ever relevant to all generations of earth's inhabitants!
HE passes the info to maintain our environmental obligations through the first man "Adam" (Genesis 1:36-30)
But Adam chose not to follow that lifesaving info rather he and his wife wants to do as they're pleased in the midst of others without considering the orders from the one who knew the best way to live!
That's the meaning of "EATING from the tree of good and bad" Genesis 2:17 compared to 3:22
Today there is no globally accepted guidebook on how we can cohabit with others like humans, beasts,fish,birds,trees,ants,worms and even no globally accepted treatment for the oxygen we breathe in to survive! All these and many more are what Adam should have passed to us as lifesaving info but since he himself ignored it,how can he teach his children?
So my friend WORSHIP has a deeper meaning than what the misinformed churchgoers and their so called Pastors who are just misrepresentation are spewing all around! Thanks

TATIME:
That's a big lie budaatum! ATHEISTS do believe in the existence of so many things they can't see. There are a thousand and one thing that atheists agreed are existing that's INVISIBLE to their eyes simply because they can feel it's presence!!

Like what, air perhaps, or the mind maybe, or evolution perchance, or Tatime even. After all, it's not as if I see you so would it be rational to hold the position that Tatime does not exist because I cannot see Tatime?

"Seeing" includes, touching, feeling, recognising, hearing, smelling, tasting, understanding and reasoning even. When Jesus spat on mud and rubbed it in the eye and the man could see, he was not only curing the blindness of the eye, according to my understanding, at least.

Has Jesus not spat on mud and rubbed it in Tatime's eye, so Tatime just can't see yet, I wonder.

TATIME:
You can see the President of your country but how many of the citizens can have a one on one discussion with him?

Oh, you do mean like the President of my country!

Well, I do think some would agree that there is more evidence that the President of my country exists than for the existence of a God which even you have not seen, heard, felt, smelt, or understood I dare add, it seems. But I don't see any reason to cover my own eye that Jesus rubbed mud he spat on and refuse to use it to look at the evidence before me and then believe in the existence of things I have absolutely no evidence for. That would require that I ignore the evidence before me and lie to myself or engage in some sort of self-delusion, all of which I find myself incapable of. And it really has no bearing on the sort of worship we agree is the correct sort of worship, or does it?

TATIME:
What the founders of ATHEISM are trying to do is "communicate directly with God!

Are we not back where we began, with you misrepresenting atheism? It seems we are to me. Did someone go up the mountain and come back to give you this your definition of atheism? Or are you just completely blinded to the evidence of atheist buda which is before your very own eyes?

Atheism, Tatime, is the position that there is no God. And I am an atheist. It would be rather very insanely stupid of me to be trying to communicate with a thing that does not exist, don't you think? Some would even agree that trying to communicate with a stone that does exist is even much less insanely stupid, I would think.

budaatum:
So you agree that worship is love one's neighbour, do Samaritan, do some of Exodus 20 and the whole of Psalm 15 and and a lot of Proverbs and learn from the Gospels and the likes? Is there any reason for you to think an atheist can't understand this?

Do you think I, buda, do not do these things because I am an atheist, Tatime?

One more thing left for you to do to become one of those worshiping God in the right sense!
You must associate with those who are ENCOURAGING one another to keep learning how to improve in our relationship with others. Hebrew 10:24,25. Amongst them,they console one another with words that's healing the emotional wounds caused by the sight and news of terrible events going on around us and because of all the evil deeds done under the sun,in order to be influenced by the degraded morality in the society. Psalms 1:1-3, 37:7-9
When you see your dog caught in a deadly trap, you'll endeavor to rescue it,though it won't recognise you anymore and it will be aggressive even ready to bite you but you won't just walk away because you value it's life.
Please can you also do likewise for humans like you who had been caught in the deadly trap of misinformed and misrepresentatives claiming men of God?
If you do this,you'll help save many who have been bruised emotionally by those wolves in sheep's clothing,and you'll bring smiles and tears of joy to their faces as you help them grasp the purpose of life.
During my ministry,i met an old lady who lives with sorrow all her life because she's barren,all the religions she ever knew taught her that it's a curse to be childless so she's always feeling sad,after studying the Bible with her,she realized that child bearing wasn't purposely for each and everyone to have his/her own.
I made her understand that God's purpose is for the earth to be filled with nice and kind people, so if you're able to train someone to become such you're much more a parent that someone who just gave birth to untamed sons and daughters! Tears of joy ran down her cheek as she started recollecting those that she has trained who cherished her much more than their biological parents and she started crying because i have to go home,she is always anticipating our next schedule for the free home Bible study,now she's contemplating becoming a Christian so as to help others who might be feeling the way she used to feel in the past. She's now prepared to join the preaching and teaching program too!
Do you think those Pastors and Muslim Imams(who knew nothing about God's program) can turn her sorrow to such priceless bliss?
Well my friend budaatum,that's what TRUE Christianity can mean for you!

budaatum:

Like what, air perhaps, or the mind maybe, or evolution perchance, or Tatime even. After all, it's not as if I see you so would it be rational to hold the position that Tatime does not exist because I cannot see Tatime?

"Seeing" includes, touching, feeling, recognising, hearing, smelling, tasting, understanding and reasoning even. When Jesus spat on mud and rubbed it in the eye and the man could see, he was not only curing the blindness of the eye, according to my understanding, at least.

Has Jesus not spat on mud and rubbed it in Tatime's eye, so Tatime just can't see yet, I wonder.


Oh, you do mean like the President of my country!

Well, I do think some would agree that there is more evidence that the President of my country exists than for the existence of a God which even you have not seen, heard, felt, smelt, or understood I dare add, it seems. But I don't see any reason to cover my own eye that Jesus rubbed mud he spat on and refuse to use it to look at the evidence before me and then believe in the existence of things I have absolutely no evidence for. That would require that I ignore the evidence before me and lie to myself or engage in some sort of self-delusion, all of which I find myself incapable of. And it really has no bearing on the sort of worship we agree is the correct sort of worship, or does it?


Are we not back where we began, with you misrepresenting atheism? It seems we are to me. Did someone go up the mountain and come back to give you this your definition of atheism? Or are you just completely blinded to the evidence of atheist buda which is before your very own eyes?

Atheism, Tatime, is the position that there is no God. And I am an atheist. It would be rather very insanely stupid of me to be trying to communicate with a thing that does not exist, don't you think? Some would even agree that trying to communicate with a stone that does exist is even much less insanely stupid, I would think.

How old are you? Their are pioneers in ATHEISM who laid the foundation, you're just a twenty first century initiated member! Your parents aren't atheists and if they are your grandparents are definitely not atheists,so someone or some people taught you all what you're saying now.
I am telling you what gave birth to ATHEISM, and you're consenting to my definition because you yourself said it's the sight or touch that will make you agree that God exists!
So when i said the founders of ATHEISM tried to communicate directly with God without caring to observe his protocols and orderliness. You're a living proof of that my friend, because you keep insisting on SEEING or HEARING from God before you will agree HE exists!
One more thing i'm adding as the excuse for atheism! "Selfishness" most atheists aren't ready to take instructions from others yet they're striving to guide others,otherwise there won't be atheists on NL trying to discouraged those who cherishes FAITH!
You and i know for sure that "nobody will post anything here about those who don't think God exists when billions are dying for FAITH" So it's ATHEISTS that are trying to create some form of awareness whereas they themselves are saying each and everyone should think independently, isn't that awful!

TATIME:
One more thing left for you to do to become one of those worshiping God in the right sense!

I already 'worship' with people who worship like those we have agreed worship properly, Tatime, and we do so without the involvement of gods since we all come from diverse views on the topic. In was by common agreement in fact, that we removed gods from our worship since many of us worship gods as well in our own diverse ways or not outside our joint 'worship'.

I am satisfied with my 'worship', thank you, and see no need to involve awful imams or pastors in anyway whatsoever since you yourself agree they give stones instead of life giving bread.

TATIME:
You're a living proof of that my friend, because you keep insisting on SEEING or HEARING from God before you will agree HE exists!

As evidence that God exists, yes, since you all asking us to bow down. Or do you expect me to bow down to a thing I have no evidence exists? Even Daniel in the Bible refused to do something as stupid as that. Should I not learn from him? What would be my learning from studying the Bible if I refused to learn such a simple lesson?

budaatum:

I already 'worship' with people who worship like those we have agreed worship properly, Tatime, and we do so without the involvement of gods since we all come from diverse views on the topic. In was by common agreement in fact, that we removed gods from our worship since many of us worship gods as well in our own diverse ways or not outside our joint 'worship'.

I am satisfied with my 'worship', thank you, and see no need to involve awful imams or pastors in anyway whatsoever since you yourself agree they give stones instead of life giving bread.

Thanks for agreeing that WORSHIP is necessary!
There is just one difference between ATHEISTS and CHRISTIANS!
It's called ORDERLINESS!
Now you'll understand why i said there are much more ATHEISTS in religious groups than those outrightly claiming atheists!
They believe in worship but they just don't want anyone or anything to direct them on how to live their lives(good and bad) Genesis 3:5
Majority of them choose whom they'll worship as in join those doing what they like,others starts their own group and begin initiating members,still others just stay clear from groups. But one thing that's inevitable, they must subject themselves to superior authorities who gives them specific instructions just like their gods! So they must hate and kill others at the command from their gods,unlike Christians who are worshiping God and CAUTIOUS as to orders from those superior authorities as we're sure they'll soon be EXTERMINATED. Daniel 2:44
So i know atheists have a form of worship, it's only that majority of them don't realise it! Thanks budaatum.

budaatum:

As evidence that God exists, yes, since you all asking us to bow down. Or do you expect me to bow down to a thing I have no evidence exists? Even Daniel in the Bible refused to do something as stupid as that. Should I not learn from him? What would be my learning from studying the Bible if I refused to learn such a simple lesson?

Definitely you're not getting my point budaatum, God doesn't need you bowing your head down! Daniel only lived in harmony with what Jesus later clearly stated. Jesus said true worshippers (Christians) will worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. John 4:24
SPIRIT can't be seen so true worshippers need not SEE anything before living by divine standards!
TRUTH can't be more than one so true worshippers will keep speaking and acting in agreement no matter where you find them east,west,north or south!

TATIME:
Thanks for agreeing that WORSHIP is necessary!

Worship is not necessary, Tatime! The fact that I use words you understand does not mean you equate my meaning to yours.

My definition of worship (love one's neighbour, do Samaritan, do some of Exodus 20 and the whole of Psalm 15 and and a lot of Proverbs and learn from the Gospels and the likes), which we agreed on simply means "doing good and living a good life as far as everyone and everything else is concerned". It hardly means worship in the religious sense of the word, as you've shown by stating that one has to believe in gods and join a religion to do it.

And even "doing good and living a good life as far as everyone and everything else is concerned" is not necessary for those who don't agree it is since it is a choice. I can hardly insist that a mass murderer should do good and live a good life now, can I, or am I all of a sudden some god who is responsible for setting others on the path I chose to thread?

One may chose to live a good life as defined, and it can have nothing to do with gods, or religion, in anyway whatsoever, is my point. And if some god wants others to walk in its path, then it should perhaps bother to inform them of it, or make them even - I'm sure some wouldn't mind.

Do not mistake my ability to speak religionese as an acceptance of religion per se, or gods, for that matter. As I said, I am concerned about the here and now and not some everlasting life in the hereafter since I have no evidence it exists and it has no bearing on here and now, for me. Besides, our discussion here just points to the fact that religion can be divisive, or what else is it that you object to about me apart from the fact that I don't agree that your version of truth is the right and only proper one?

There are no superior authorities who give buda specific instructions, unless buda's ability to reason and understand determines that buda do so. buda is definitely not some individual who subjugates buda's own ability to others, not even to God, without at least some evidence that such God actually exists.

Do know that if by now you believe I do not understand when the facts are that we merely see some things different to each other, then it is perhaps time for me to move on. You at least have engaged with an atheist who differs to the view of atheists you insist on holding onto despite the evidence before your very own eyes, and I am certain you do perfectly understand and that suffices for me.

budaatum:

Worship is not necessary, Tatime! The fact that I use words you understand does not mean you equate my meaning to yours.

My definition of worship (love one's neighbour, do Samaritan, do some of Exodus 20 and the whole of Psalm 15 and and a lot of Proverbs and learn from the Gospels and the likes), which we agreed on simply means "doing good and living a good life as far as everyone and everything else is concerned". It hardly means worship in the religious sense of the word, as you've shown by stating that one has to believe in gods and join a religion to do it.

And even "doing good and living a good life as far as everyone and everything else is concerned" is not necessary for those who don't agree it is since it is a choice. I can hardly insist that a mass murderer should do good and live a good life now, can I, or am I all of a sudden some god who is responsible for setting others on the path I chose to thread?

One may chose to live a good life as defined, and it can have nothing to do with gods, or religion, in anyway whatsoever, is my point. And if some god wants others to walk in its path, then it should perhaps bother to inform them of it, or make them even - I'm sure some wouldn't mind.

Do not mistake my ability to speak religioness as an acceptance of religion per se, or gods, for that matter. As I said, I am concerned about the here and now and not some everlasting life in the hereafter since I have no evidence it exists and it has no bearing on here and now, for me. Besides, our discussion here just points to the fact that religion can be divisive, or what else is it that you object to about me apart from the fact that I don't agree that your version of truth is the right and only proper one?

There are no superior authorities who give buda specific instructions, unless buda's ability to reason and understand determines that buda do so. buda is definitely not some individual who subjugates buda's own ability to others, not even to God, without at least some evidence that such God actually exists.

Do know that if by now you believe I do not understand when the facts are that we merely see some things different to each other, then it is perhaps time for me to move on. You at least have engaged with an atheist who differs to the view of atheists you insist on holding onto despite the evidence before your very own eyes, and I am certain you do perfectly understand and that suffices for me.

We've agreed on certain issues my friend.
*You and i agreed that it's in the best interest of one and all to know what's good and keep doing it.
*We've agreed that many people are worshiping things that's of no benefit to anyone.
*We've agreed that even those who claims there is no God wish doing good.
*We've agreed that it's necessary to assist others as regards information.
So where do we disagree?
*Taking unpleasant orders from other intelligent beings be it God or humans but i say in most cases it takes great humility to grasp the benefits of certain instructions that might seem unpleasant. Matthew 26:39
*We don't need to associate together but i say we need to be seeing one another periodically for encouragement and commendations on fine deeds. Hebrew 10:24,25
It's OK my friend, i'll continue to meditate on what i've learnt from Atheism and i hope you've also learnt some things from TRUE Christianity that's worth meditating on. Thanks for the presentation of your convictions!

TATIME:
If you're truthfully expecting God to "come down from heaven and give you useful information PERSONALLY" then

Maybe now you might understand when I say, no, I do not expect any Gods to "come down from heaven and give me useful information PERSONALLY". Gods do not need to "come down from heaven to give me useful information PERSONALLY" because as I said, buda has already climbed up the mountain and said, "What the fuq, Lord! Has Moses got two heads?! Is it not you who created buda also? I'm coming up too. And I'm coming near you!"

"And so we all went all the way up the mountain, and the Lord gave buda the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father sent to teach all things and bring all things to remembrance."

MuttleyLaff:
Face palm. SMH
Why are there unbelievable more holes than in a Swiss cheese in this post?

#IfYouKnowYouKnow
If you know, you know and who no know, no go know

where you see holes, I see the openings to a dark tunnel.
Dont forget by Christian standards you are not even a christian.