budaatum:
I'm sure if you are told you'd surely die but live another 800 or so years you'd be begging to die.

Still note. Humans always died, and the idea some even lived 100s of years is rather comical, not to talk of them living forever until they ate the fruit and their eyes opened..

"Now Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters came upon the earth."
- Genesis 7:6

"⁷I was forty years old when Moses, the servant of the LORD, sent me from Kadesh-barnea to explore the land of Canaan.
I returned and gave an honest report,
⁸but my brothers who went with me frightened the people from entering the Promised Land.
For my part, I wholeheartedly followed the LORD my God.
⁹So that day Moses solemnly promised me, ‘The land of Canaan on which you were just walking will be your grant of land
and that of your descendants forever, because you wholeheartedly followed the LORD my God.’
¹⁰“Now, as you can see, the LORD has kept me alive
and well as he promised for all these forty-five years since Moses made this promise
—even while Israel wandered in the wilderness. Today I am eighty-five years old.
¹¹I am as strong now as I was when Moses sent me on that journey,
and I can still travel and fight as well as I could then"
- Joshua 14:7-11

Smh. Why would I have had to beg to die? In the first millennia, people lived hundreds of years, because the world hadn't no pollution, hadn't shown evidence of decline, there's no buildup of history of natural disasters et cetera, genetic hasn't become impaired, weakened or damaged., they weren't eating processed food full of nasty chemicals. Of course, after the flood, the length of years people lived, gradually reduced, as we see a dramatic decrease in average lifespan caused by degeneration of the genes and environmental factors.

See Caleb, in Joshua 14:7-11, just as strong as when he was half his age, he said. I can imagine an 800 or so years old, be as strong as a 450 or so years old and not begging to die.

"²⁸And Jacob lived in the land of Egypt for seventeen years,
and Jacob's days, the years of his life, were a hundred and forty seven years.
²⁹When the time drew near for Israel to die, he called his son Joseph and said to him,
"If I have now found favor in your eyes, now place your hand beneath my thigh,
and you shall deal with me with lovingkindness and truth; do not bury me now in Egypt."
- Genesis 47:28-29

It is God, that determines the time when one dies (i.e. Genesis 47:29) You may beg God to die, like Elijah did, in 1 Kings 19:4, when he sat down under a bush and asked God to let him die. He begged God, saying "I've had enough. Just let me die!" but the request wasn't granted.

The aspect of longevity read in the bible is to remind us that human beings were meant to live perpetually until sin entered the world and brought in death.

MuttleyLaff:
"Now Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters came upon the earth."
- Genesis 7:6.

Actually, it is writtenin Genesis 7:6 that Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters......

As is said in [url=https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/6009935/George+Gershwin/It+Ain%27t+Necessarily+So+%5BFrom+Porgy+and+Bess%5D]Porgy and Bess[/url]

It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible,
It ain't necessarily so.

Which is why sensible people should not just believe what they read.

budaatum:
Actually, it is writtenin Genesis 7:6 that Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters......

As is said in [url=https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/6009935/George+Gershwin/It+Ain%27t+Necessarily+So+%5BFrom+Porgy+and+Bess%5D]Porgy and Bess[/url]

It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible,
It ain't necessarily so.

Which is why sensible people should not just believe what they read.

"So Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died."
- Genesis 5:27

"⁷Abraham lived a total of 175 years.
⁸And at a ripe old age he breathed his last and died, old and contented, and was gathered to his people."
- Genesis 25:7-8

Methuselah was 969 years when the floodwaters .... Abraham lived a total of 175 years. Of course, after the flood, the length of years that people lived, gradually reduced, as we see comparing Methuselah, Abraham and the present.

It is written, and you believe it but know not if they truly lived that long.

MuttleyLaff:
"So Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died."
- Genesis 5:27

"⁷Abraham lived a total of 175 years.
⁸And at a ripe old age he breathed his last and died, old and contented, and was gathered to his people."
- Genesis 25:7-8

Methuselah was 969 years when the floodwaters .... Abraham lived a total of 175 years. Of course, after the flood, the length of years that people lived, gradually reduced, as we see comparing Methuselah, Abraham and the present.

budaatum:
It is written, and you believe it but know not if they truly lived that long.

budaatum, do you believe that the devil is evil or the devil is not evil?

MuttleyLaff:
budaatum, do you believe that the devil is evil or is not evil?

I do not believe period. I know that people do evil things for various reasons like, ignorance, greed, stupidity, selfishness etc, and these are what I call devil, as in that which motivates one to be ignorant, greedy, stupid, selfish; while God is that in one that makes one do good.

As is written, God created humans in God's own image which includes God's image of being a Trinity which makes humans a trinity of good, bad and the will to choose between the two which Christ embodied. It is a separation that humans gradually came to realise over the centuries, as is shown by the Trinity itself not coming into human consciousness until Christ embodied that which is God. Before it, there was only the duality of good and evil, and there are some who believe we just have not yet come to understand that God and God's creations might be a QUATERNITY or more.

It is this that allows me to consider Genesis 3 might be a misunderstanding by its writers or translators. A being that sets "boundaries and/or limits" by enslaving people naked in gardens and deprives them of knowledge sounds more like boko haram than God, and the so called serpent sounds like chain freeing Logos the Christ, to me.

Note. Beliefs are no substitute for knowledge nor understanding but the lazy acceptance that a thing is so with no collaborative evidence to support the claim one makes. None of the above is a belief but a search for understanding.

C.f. Skepticism Vs Zombiesm - Which Is Good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmm4q92WfXk

budaatum:
I do not believe period

Please be more explicit budaatum. Do you believe that the devil is evil or is not evil?

budaatum:
I know that people do evil things for various reasons like, ignorance, greed, stupidity, selfishness etc, and these are what I call devil, as in that which motivates one to be ignorant, greedy, stupid, selfish; while God is that in one that makes one do good.

As is written, God created humans in God's own image which includes God's image of being a Trinity which makes humans a trinity of good, bad and the will to choose between the two which Christ embodied. It is a separation that humans gradually came to realise over the centuries, as is shown by the Trinity itself not coming into human consciousness until Christ embodied that which is God. Before it, there was only the duality of good and evil, and there are some who believe we just have not yet come to understand that God and God's creations might be a QUATERNITY or more.

It is this that allows me to consider Genesis 3 might be a misunderstanding by its writers or translators. A being that sets "boundaries and/or limits" by enslaving people naked in gardens and deprives them of knowledge sounds more like boko haram than God, and the so called serpent sounds like chain freeing Logos the Christ, to me.

Note. Beliefs are no substitute for knowledge nor understanding but the lazy acceptance that a thing is so with no collaborative evidence to support the claim one makes. None of the above is a belief but a search for understanding.

C.f. Skepticism Vs Zombiesm - Which Is Good?

"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth,
for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks"
- John 4:23

I repeat that the glaring fact in all this budaatum, was that Adam and Eve, the serpent found it just too difficult to own up and have their hands raised up in the air, to say they did wrong, going against God's expressed command, not to eat of the fruit from the TKGE, dare I say, not to eat off the fruit from the TKGE before the hour has come (i.e. John 2:4)

Adam and Eve weren't ignorant, they weren't being enslaved, they weren't beholden within the "boundaries and/or limits set", we all have free will and so the liberty to take or make our own choices. This aspect of A&E exercising freewill budaatum, was them undergoing a willpower test, as it were, it's something like, give a cat a bowl of milk to guard or a rat a slice of cheese to look after, and lets see what will become of the bowl of milk and slice of cheese, but alas, out of the challenge between "id" and "ego." "Id" apparently, got the better of "ego" on that eventful day and thus brought home and rang true, the proverbial, that, curiosity killed the cat.

Now, interestingly, it's said that, the true test of a man's character, is what he does, when no one is watching. You see this was an opportunity for character to develop, to evolve, to be etched on the blank slates of the hearts of A&E. Adam and Eve, prior to eating the fruit, because of lack of experiences (i.e. as in, no experiential knowledge of Good and Evil) were character-less, had no character, their slate was blank and clean, so this was a test of character, testing the strength of will or the strength of character of Adam and Eve. If you want to test a man/woman's character, give him/her power, give him/her freewill, give him/her willpower.

The fox can be set to guard the henhouse but for how long will nothing happen to the chickens. The cat can be set to guard the bowl of cream/milk but how long will nothing happen to the cream/milk. OK, here's a quick and snappy breakdown of what went down. The events in Genesis 1:24-27, expatiated upon from Genesis 2:4 up on to Genesis 3:25, all happened in a normal 24-hour period. A&E almost successfully held it together but they caved in at the last hurdle (i.e. the last hour)

In the Bible you'll find God expressed in three persons, trinity (i.e. God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). You are right on the money when you said God and God's creations/expression might be a QUATERNITY or more, because in fact, God is limitless and illimitable. God is not QUATERNITY or more but, God is I AM that I AM, GOD is INFINITY or ∞-persons.

There is nothing lazy about having good faith. budaatum, are you familiar with Hebrews Chapter 11:4-40 heroes of Faith? I am specifically talking about the famous "hall of faith" register book, hmm? Abraham and others, willingness and/or preparedness to have a strong belief in God, based not on spiritual apprehension without immediate proof, but just sheer stark nakéd faith, earned him and the others, a mention, a place and/or position in the greatly desired or enviable Hebrews chapter eleven coveted "Hall of faith" or "Faith Hall of fame".

The giants, in the corridor of the enviable Hebrews chapter eleven "Hall of faith" or "Faith Hall of fame" exercised faith of one kind or the other that was taken by God to qualify as a semblance of righteousness acceptable to Him.

These great men and women of Hebrews chapter eleven "Hall of faith" or "Faith Hall of fame" didnt have the benefit of John 4:23 above, that we are enjoying but they saw far, yet none of them, before they passed on, received all that God had promised, however there was a certain thief on the right hand side of Jesus on the cross, who saw into the future as well, believed what he perceived, so publicly acknowledged the innocence of Jesus and equally thereafter confessed the divinity of Jesus looking forward to be remembered when Jesus arrived in His kingdom. He said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom" (i.e. Luke 23:42) It must have been his knowledge and understanding to propel the thief to have such great faith/belief/conviction, not laziness or a lazy brain

budaatum:
h ttps://youtu.be/hmm4q92WfXk

"²⁰Are you willing to know, oh feeble man, that faith without works is dead*?
²¹Was not our father Abraham justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
²²Do you see that his faith upheld his deeds and by deeds his faith was perfected? "
²³And the Scripture was fulfilled which said, "Abraham believed in God,
and it was accounted to him for righteousness", and he was called the friend* of God.
²⁴You see that by works a man is justified and not from faith alone.
²⁵In this way also, was not Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the scouts and sent them out by another way?
²⁶Just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
- James 2:20-26

The Bible, leaving no room for doubts, clearly states, that, faith, without works, is dead budaatum. Faith, is upheld works, do/doing something, and by works, doing/done something, is faith perfected.

MuttleyLaff:
Please be more explicit budaatum. Do you believe that the devil is evil or is not evil?

I have been explicit. I do not believe things. I prefer to know and understand instead, which is why I'd wonder why most don't ask who was there recording the story they read of what they believe happened in a Garden of Eden. Such lazy ignorance is beyond me.

MuttleyLaff:
I repeat that the glaring fact in all...

No you aren't repeating any "glaring facts"!
You are merely asserting what you believe are facts.

And as far as faith goes, one can have faith based on a belief, and one may base ones faith on facts, as in, empirical evidence. I, for instance, have absolute irrefutable faith that I shall not starve today because the empirical evidence of the potato that would help ensure I don't is baking in my oven.

MuttleyLaff:



The Bible, leaving no room for doubts, clearly states, that, faith, without works, is dead budaatum. Faith, is upheld works, do/doing something, and by works, doing/done something, is faith perfected.

buda reaps what buda sows. Manna does not fall into buda's mouth from heaven. Maybe preach to those who are not aware and believe otherwise.

budaatum:
I have been explicit. I do not believe things. I prefer to know and understand instead, which is why I'd wonder why most don't ask who was there recording the story they read of what they believe happened in a Garden of Eden. Such lazy ignorance is beyond me.

Why are you evading and outrightly avoiding using the word devil, to say, if the devil is evil or the devil is not evil, hmm? Commit to saying whether the devil is evil or the devil is not evil.

budaatum:
No you aren't repeating any "glaring facts"!
You are merely asserting what you believe are facts.

And as far as faith goes, one can have faith based on a belief, and one may base ones faith on facts, as in, empirical evidence. I, for instance, have absolute irrefutable faith that I shall not starve today because the empirical evidence of the potato that would help ensure I don't is baking in my oven.

I am repeating before and after the glaring fact(s)

Yes, belief is a function of faith. Faith is an important element to all human life on earth. Good belief and good faith gel and work together.

You haven't factor in, eventuality(ies) that will make the prospect of having that potato to eat, become a bygone absolute irrefutable faith. Say the authorities, due to an emergency and health & safety, demand you all immediately vacate your property and street, and do so without taking anything out. Pop, goes your plan, to eat that potato

budaatum:
buda reaps what buda sows. Manna does not fall into buda's mouth from heaven. Maybe preach to those who are not aware and believe otherwise.

I am pleased to know that we at least, are singing from the same hymn sheet then

MuttleyLaff:
Why are you evading and outrightly avoiding using the word devil, to say, if the devil is evil or the devil is not evil, hmm? Commit to saying whether the devil is evil or the devil is not evil.

There is an underlying assumption you seem to take for granted with your question, which I do not, which is that an entity called devil actually exists.

A non-existing thing can not be good nor evil, and you'd find the entity you call devil always has a human agent through whom it seems to work, which just makes me think it is humans abrogating responsibility for the evil they themselves do.

MuttleyLaff:
You haven't factor in, eventuality(ies) that will make the prospect of having that potato to eat, become a bygone absolute irrefutable faith. Say the authorities, due to an emergency and health & safety, demand you all immediately vacate your property and street, and do so without taking anything out. Pop, goes your plan, to eat that potato.

I think you misunderstand. I took everything into consideration, including the known fact that it is unlikely "emergency and health & safety, demand you all immediately vacate your property and street", since it is a rare occurrence where I live. All the same, my potato baked, I ate it, I am not hungry so my faith was justified.

Hopefully, evidence, as in, the facts, trump anything you or I decide to cook up in our heads and believe.

budaatum:
There is an underlying assumption you seem to take for granted with your question, which I do not, which is that an entity called devil actually exists.

A non-existing thing can not be good nor evil, and you'd find the entity you call devil always has a human agent through whom it seems to work, which just makes me think it is humans abrogating responsibility for the evil they themselves do.

"¹⁰and the Devil, who is leading them astray,
was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet,
and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
¹¹And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
¹²and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened,
and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life,
and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls — according to their works;
¹³and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them,
and they were judged, each one according to their works;
¹⁴and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death;
¹⁵and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire"
- Revelation 20:10-15

budaatum:
I think you misunderstand. I took everything into consideration, including the known fact that it is unlikely "emergency and health & safety, demand you all immediately vacate your property and street", since it is a rare occurrence where I live. All the same, my potato baked, I ate it, I am not hungry so my faith was justified

I think you misunderstand. Not likely to happen, doesnt mean or equate to "... authorities, due to an emergency and health & safety, demand you all immediately vacate your property and street" cant happen

budaatum:
Hopefully, evidence, as in, the facts, trump anything you or I decide to cook up in our heads and believe.

It is wise to not hope against hoping/hopefulness and to remain hopeful that evidence, as in, the facts, trump anything not good, you or I decide to cook up in our heads and believe.

MuttleyLaff:
"[i]¹⁰and the Devil, who is leading them astray,
was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet,
and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

Sounds like the Bible is evidence to you, and if its written in the Bible, its necessarily so.

Do note that buda is not wired in such a way that what is written in a book trump understanding or facts.

budaatum:
Sounds like the Bible is evidence to you, and if its written in the Bible, its necessarily so.

The Logos, after all, is the Word of God, and if its written in it, it then, necessarily, is so.

budaatum:
Do note that buda is not wired in such a way that what is written in a book trump understanding or facts.

I respect that buda is not wired in such a way that what is written in a book trump understanding or facts and I do not judge buda' for being wired in such way

MuttleyLaff:
The Logos, after all, is the Word of God, and if its written in it, it then, necessarily, is so.

Are you suggesting that the Logos which was with God in the beginning and became flesh and made his dwelling among us that John testified concerning, is the Bible, muttley?

It would explain why you bow down and worship your understanding of it.

budaatum:
Are you suggesting that the Logos which was with God in the beginning and became flesh and made his dwelling among us that John testified concerning, is the Bible, muttley?

It would explain why you bow down and worship your understanding of it.

budaatum, please answer this. Who is this above me? Who is the person who immediately above me posted? Whats the person Nairaland's moniker name/ID?

It is an assumption that I "bow down and worship your my understanding of it", (sic). Fyi, budatum, believers dont "bow down and worship your their understanding" of Logos and/or Rhema

I am sorry in advance, if you dont find me immediately responding back to you. I'll, God willing, Sunday next coming, if necessary give response(s) to your reply of the "Who is this above me? Who is the person who immediately above me posted? Whats the person Nairaland's moniker name/ID?" question.

Are you answering my question with a question, muttley?

Please know that I see it as you rudely and deviously evading the obvious flaw in your reasoning or lack of thereof despite your apology.

MuttleyLaff:
budaatum, please answer this. Who is this above me? Who is the person who immediately above me posted? Whats the person Nairaland's moniker name/ID?

It is an assumption that I "bow down and worship your my understanding of it", (sic). Fyi, budatum, believers dont "bow down and worship your their understanding" of Logos and/or Rhema

I am sorry in advance, if you dont find me immediately responding back to you. I'll, God willing, Sunday next coming, if necessary give response(s) to your reply of the "Who is this above me? Who is the person who immediately above me posted? Whats the person Nairaland's moniker name/ID?" question.

budaatum:
Are you answering my question with a question, muttley?

budaatum, one word: "maieutic"

budaatum:
Please know that I see it as you rudely and deviously evading the obvious flaw in your reasoning or lack of thereof despite your apology

The method of answering a question with a question, is done, in order to let the original questioner realise that he/she can find the answer to the question he/she asked, by reasoning. Socrates, in eliciting truths from his students, would say that the answer(s) was/were in them/him/her all along. Catch up with you again, God willing, on Sunday next coming

It's also a way to hide ignorance and an inability to accept you are in error.

MuttleyLaff:
budaatum, one word: "maieutic"

The method of answering a question with a question, is done, in order to let the original questioner realise that he/she can find the answer to the question he/she asked, by reasoning. Socrates, in eliciting truths from his students, would say that the answer(s) was/were in them/him/her all along. Catch up with you again, God willing, on Sunday next coming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWJbDXuDEs