It's a lie you want to believe anyway! But until Muslims translated the Bible into English themselves to show us the discrepancies, distortions and lies: they should keep their mouths permanently shut!
Quran already did that for you and we have told you countless times
Empiree: thank you. You used very reasonable analogy. Maybe he and his buddy, sagenaija will understand better now. When we said Bible is distorted this is exactly what we meant.. You perfectly analogized discrimpancies of the Bible
You need to understand this: The Bible in its original languages has remained the same. So, the analogy or whatever he was trying to make is IRRELEVANT. NO ONE has changed the original Hebrew manuscripts. NO ONE has changed the original Greek manuscripts.
Translations may be made by different bodies at different times in history. But the originals REMAIN the same!
Sometimes it appears that one needs to repeat and repeat and repeat before you guys get a simple issue because you have bought into a propaganda that has STUCK into your heads no matter what.
Do the needful! Why do you think every imam of repute has deamed it fit not to touch the ancient scripts of the bible and translate?
FEAR!
Fear of the truth!
shaking my head. looks like you dont research. There are pastors who went to jerusalem on ministry mission. They were introduced to Greek Library and they wen through and found old manuscript bible which mentioned Muhammad. The pastor converted to islam. His name is Pastor Matthew Oyewole. He exposed how Britain, Israel and US funded christian evangelism in 1990 to end islam in by year 2000 but their mission failed.
You need to understand this: The Bible in its original languages has remained the same. So, the analogy or whatever he was trying to make is IRRELEVANT. NO ONE has changed the original Hebrew manuscripts. NO ONE has changed the original Greek manuscripts.
Translations may be made by different bodies at different times in history. But the originals REMAIN the same!
Sometimes it appears that one needs to repeat and repeat and repeat before you guys get a simple issue because you have bought into a propaganda that has STUCK into your heads no matter what.
Empi.ree, do you now get it?
No, this is not the case. There are different bibles with difference missing pieces if messages. If you want examples i will post them at your request. For a quick review, Catholic contains 73 books. Protestant has 66. Who missed or who added to bible?. This alone places question mark on veracity of the bible
Empiree: shaking my head. looks like you dont research. There are pastors who went to jerusalem on ministry mission. They were introduced to Greek Library and they wen through and found old manuscript bible which mentioned Muhammad. The pastor converted to islam. His name is Pastor Matthew Oyewole. He exposed how Britain, Israel and US funded christian evangelism in 1990 to end islam in by year 2000 but their mission failed.
Look for his lecture on Acadip network
I am so surprised you believe Mathew Oyewole. You don't know Christians one single bit. How Britain, Israel and US (I thought you were going to say how Catholics and Protestants churches contributed money to end Islam). If you had told me that Christians conspired to make the bible accessible to everyone on earth, I would believe you because that's how we think. How many times have you heard a pastor preaching against Islam in the churches? Unlike you muslims who's nature is exactly that.
Christianity is NOT a political religion like Islam. Get that right.
By the way only Muslims would not know when a person is lying about the Christian faith: I am posting his testimony for Christians to see his lies
FILE OF A FORMER PASTOR MATHEW OYEWOLE TESTIMONY OF HIS REVERT TO ISLAM Noaman 2 years ago FILE OF A FORMER PASTOR MATHEW OYEWOLE TESTIMONY OF HIS REVERT TO ISLAM
My name is Pastor Mathew Oyewole. I was a senior pastor from fountain life bible mission. I became a Muslim when i proceeded to an Advanced Bible school where they use Greek to teach to further my knowledge in the bible. I was one of those admitted into the school after thorough screening. On admission into the school, all admitted students were seriously warned to keep whatever they see in the school to themselves.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One day, i was studying the bible with a friend and we got to this verse: —- John 1: 19-25 : 19-And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20-And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21-And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In our quest to know who was the prophet, we went to the school library to check the verses in a more detailed bible kept in the library. To our surprise, where they asked John, ARE YOU THOU PROPHET? We saw written “ARE YOU MUHAMMAD?” in the bible. We were so astonished to see the name of Muhammad in the bible & that prompted us to go to a lecturer in the bible school to ask for the reason why Muhammad’s name is in the bible. ******* The lecturer said Muhammad’s name is in the bible and he came after Jesus. He said, the race of prophethood is like a relay race
He said without Muhammad, all efforts of the previous prophets would have resulted to nothing.
The confession of the lecturer was a big blow on me. Many things were discovered in the bible school.
On completing the bible course, i decided to denounce Christianity but not easy because of the enjoyment, entitlement & agreement between myself and the church.
I had in my mind that if i die as a Christian after knowing the truth or hide the truth discovered from being known to the public, God will not forgive me.
To cut the story short, i dumped Christianity to ISLAM.
My conversion was a hell from the church that sent me to the bible school. They planned to terminate my life, ******************* The rejected christianity of former pastor is when he discovered Muhammad’s name written in a reference bible hidden in the library of an advanced bible school. The Pastor embraced Islam when a lecturer of the school confirmed the prophet hood and messengership of Muhammed. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
( CONTINUATION ) When i became a Muslim, the Christian community in the old Benin state where i was serving as a pastor were so disturbed especially the church i was overseeing then. ^^^^^^^ Before my conversion to Islam, i was one of the pastors selected in Nigeria trained and sponsored by America to see to the downfall of islam in Africa starting with Nigeria under the leadership of Late Benson Idahosa. U.S spent a lot of money on us just to bring down Islam and that was when we embarked on aggressive crusade in Nigeria with printing and displaying of beautiful and gigantic posters/ banners around the country. We moved from one state to another but instead of seeing the fall of Islam, it was Idahosa that died. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ As i was saying,, when the elders of my church heard of my conversion to Islam, they were so worried. They plotted to kill me by pouring acid on me but one of those that loves me in the church came to inform me of the deadly plot of the elders in the church. I and my family left the house with all our belongings to Oyo state. I thought everything has ended but surprisingly, these elders with the support of CAN Benin chapter came to Oyo state with police men to arrest me. I was highly supported by the universal Muslim brothers under the leadership of Olanrewaju Adepoju, a very popular Ewi master then. I was arrested and taken to Benin. They filed a case against me in a court on the fact that i left christianity or their church after spending a lot on me by sending me to a bible school without paying back. The judge that presided over the case threatened that before the next court session, i must have dropped my Muslim name and reverted back to christianity. ******* During the next court session, i used turban and immediately the judge set his eyes on me in turban, he was so annoyed and he directed that my case should be called next. The judge ruling on my case, sentenced me to 3 years imprisonment without allowing neither my lawyer nor myself to say anything. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
MY FIRST DAY EXPERIENCE IN PRISON, I was sentenced to 3 years imprisonment without giving me the opportunity of defending myself. I was in the prison together with some people who were spending different jail terms. Among them was a Hausa man called Dauda and a man called Joseph aka Lion who was regarded as the King of the prison, he was very huge, fat and fierce looking. As i was locked inside the prison, the provost of the prison instructed Joseph aka Lion to deal with me. (This is just because i left Christianity to islam). As Joseph was coming to me, i started shivering but as Allah would have it, a senior prison commander shouted: Lion, go back. He went back immediately and i felt so relieved. *********************
INDIAN HEM WRAPPED WITH BIBLE These people(miscreants) except the hausa man used to smoke Indian hem with copies of Gideon bible given to them courtesy of Gideon brothers or foundation. I can not say precisely where/how they got the Indian hem but surely, they smoke it in the prison then. *******************
FROM A PASTOR TO ISLAMIC PREACHER My imprisonment gave me the opportunity of preaching Islam to the inmates of the prison. My experience in the bible school was the main instrument of my preaching & by the power of the Almighty, 14 of them accepted islam but then, i was still looking for what to use to prove the reality of Islam to the reverts. Allah crowned my mission with a wonder. ********************
THE WONDERFUL QUR’AN Don’t forget that there was a Hausa man called Dauda in the prison who always read the Qur’an. One day, the king of the prison, Joseph aka Lion said to other inmates of the prison that “Is it only bible we will be using to smoke’? As he said that, he went straight to Dauda to forcefully collect the quran he was reading. He tore the Quran & remove some leaves out of it to smoke Indian hem. I felt so much disturbed with this action. Joseph used the leaves of the Quran to wrap the Indian hem. He put it in his mouth, brought out a lighter and light the Indian hem. He smoked it first and second time. With in 5 minutes of his smoking, we just discovered that Joseph could not talk, neither move and was just looking like a Zombie. As we stood watching what was happening, Joseph started shouting & defaecate in his trouser. Joseph became a mad man. That gave me the opportunity of intensifying on my preaching to the prison inmates and as i said earlier, some of them accepted Islam and i give glory to Almighty Allah ********************
NEW SONG OF THE PRISON What happened to Joseph turned out to be the new song of the prison inmates. I became highly respected in the prison *********************
ALL GLORY TO THE ALMIGHTY Join me to thank Almighty Allah for saving me from the hands of God’s enemies. My brothers and sisters, i am saying it with confidence and reality that Islam is the only religion God enjoined on all human beings. This is a religion that covers all ways of life and a religion not named after anybody. My brothers and sisters, Islam is not in competition with Christianity and other faiths. Islam is unique being the only faith practised and preached by all prophets including the Lion of Judah (Jesus). This generation belongs to Muhammad and that is in line with what Jesus (Eesa) said: THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU (ISRAELITES) AND SHALL BE GIVEN TO A NATION (SAUDI ARABIA) PRODUCING THE FRUITS FORTH.
I just need 5 minutes to tear down every thing down as lies. So many things he said that babies in children class in church should know better. Unfortunately, its not you I should ask the questions, it is him!
shadeyinka: Only You can believe lies without thinking
I am so surprised you believe Mathew Oyewole. You don't know Christians one single bit. How Britain, Israel and US (I thought you were going to say how Catholics and Protestants churches contributed money to end Islam). If you had told me that Christians conspired to make the bible accessible to everyone on earth, I would believe you because that's how we think. How many times have you heard a pastor preaching against Islam in the churches? Unlike you muslims who's nature is exactly that.
Christianity is NOT a political religion like Islam. Get that right.
By the way only Muslims would not know when a person is lying about the Christian faith: I am posting his testimony for Christians to see his lies
I just need 5 minutes to tear down every thing down as lies. So many things he said that babies in children class in church should know better. Unfortunately, its not you I should ask the questions, it is him!
Muhammad! In the Bible. Hahaha
The Holy Spirit taught me something of recent. SATAN is not the most powerful of eternal beings.
Death is also an Eternal beating etc but Lucifer is well respected for his Lies. He is an Atorney that was anointed before his fall.
Deception is the Most powerful weapon he uses. Only Few can Survive it.
If Angels of his peer group can be deceived, Humans are too small not to be deceived.
Jesus is a Liar from the beginning.
I appreciate Jesus for showing me Light and will forever love him for that.
The Holy Spirit taught me something of recent. SATAN is not the most powerful of eternal beings.
Death is also an Eternal beating etc but Lucifer is well respected for his Lies. He is an Atorney that was anointed before his fall.
Deception is the Most powerful weapon he uses. Only Few can Survive it.
If Angels of his peer group can be deceived, Humans are too small not to be deceived.
SATAN is a Liar from the beginning.
I appreciate Jesus for showing me Light and will forever love him for that.
Unfortunately, common sence is not common
I deliberately didn't highlight any thing because Christians will see grevious errors that Muslims wouldn't see. It's like Matthew Oyewole just jumped from nowhere to become a pastor. Who does that?
Pls correct your post. Satan is a liar from the beginning
Empiree: No, this is not the case. There are different bibles with difference missing pieces if messages. If you want examples i will post them at your request. For a quick review, Catholic contains 73 books. Protestant has 66. Who missed or who added to bible?. This alone places question mark on veracity of the bible
Empire, the guy said: “My major problem with the bible is the many many MAJOR REVISIONS of the original "BOOK"”
Revision means amendments, modifications, changes, etc.
The question is ‘How has he proved this?’. He just listed great grandfather, grandfather, etc write up and you immediately bought into this? If his great grandfather wrote a book and the subsequent generations revised it how EXACTLY did this same apply to the Bible? Who first wrote what and who revised what? Where is the logic in his argument? Are you so shallow as to just accept ANYTHING just because it is against your opponent?
Is the Genesis of the Catholics different from that of the Protestants? How does additional number of books by one party amount to changing the rest of the collections?
IF there were anything wrong in the Bible how does that make Islam right? How does that make the CONTRADICTIONS, SCIENTIFIC ABSURDITIES, HISTORICAL ERRORS and GENERAL LACK OF ORDER of the Koran justified? A book Allah had in heaven before Mohamed was born which could not be arranged in any logical order; and that is a god? A book where a god PRAYS for his subject? A book where a god makes supplications to himself? A book that takes other books to be understood and yet claims to be CLEAR?
EMPIREE, it is not a matter of copy and paste. Christians are NOT afraid of scrutiny of their book or attack on their position. Shadeyinka has pulled out what you think is a MAJOR BLOW against Christianity by that man. Already the loopholes are showing up. So, just because a man says something against Christianity does not make it correct. It has to stand up scrutiny. Just believing it means you are not thorough in looking at things. Maybe that is why you are in Islam.
Empire, the guy said: “My major problem with the bible is the many many MAJOR REVISIONS of the original "BOOK"”
Revision means amendments, modifications, changes, etc.
The question is ‘How has he proved this?’. He just listed great grandfather, grandfather, etc write up and you immediately bought into this? If his great grandfather wrote a book and the subsequent generations revised it how EXACTLY did this same apply to the Bible? Who first wrote what and who revised what? Where is the logic in his argument? Are you so shallow as to just accept ANYTHING just because it is against your opponent?
Is the Genesis of the Catholics different from that of the Protestants? How does additional number of books by one party amount to changing the rest of the collections?
IF there were anything wrong in the Bible how does that make Islam right? How does that make the CONTRADICTIONS, SCIENTIFIC ABSURDITIES, HISTORICAL ERRORS and GENERAL LACK OF ORDER of the Koran justified? A book Allah had in heaven before Mohamed was born which could not be arranged in any logical order; and that is a god? A book where a god PRAYS for his subject? A book where a god makes supplications to himself? A book that takes other books to be understood and yet claims to be CLEAR?
EMP.IREE, it is not a matter of copy and paste. Christians are NOT afraid of scrutiny of their book or attack on their position. Shadeyinka has pulled out what you think is a MAJOR BLOW against Christianity by that man. Already the loopholes are showing up. So, just because a man says something against Christianity does not make it correct. It has to stand up scrutiny. Just believing it means you are not thorough in looking at things. Maybe that is why you are in Islam.
I know you guys are ignorant of your bible for real but i am quiet reluctant at this point bcus we have already dealt with this issue 5yrs ago. Malvisguy is well aware of this. But allow me to drop a point from RSV which rebuked KJV of various contradictions and distortions. On the preface of RSV, it reads:
"The King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision."
Ponder on this for a while. i have a lot more but i am not just interested in this right now. You can check preface of RSV made this claim. I also read KJV sometimes ago condemned RSV as well. Distortions are so obvious to everyone except you and your like. So if RSV claims that KJV has defects, then, that can not be from God. This is definition of defect;
a shortcoming, imperfection, or lack. "genetic defects" synonyms: fault, flaw, imperfection, deficiency, weakness, weak spot/point, inadequacy, shortcoming, limitation, failing, obstruction;
Empiree: I know you guys are ignorant of your bible for real but i am quiet reluctant at this point bcus we have ;
Don't be too quick to respond to posts.
Take time to understand what has been posted.
The Bible has its ORIGINAL manuscripts. It is from these that KJV, RSV, etc are translated. The English of KJV may differ from RSV but the messages remain the same.
It is not so with the Koran that was only out together in the last century. Mohamed never wrote the Koran. It was supposed to be RECITATIONS; right? Why were several copies of the recitations burned after Uthman used his accepted fragments to compile a copy?
The Bible has its ORIGINAL manuscripts. It is from these that KJV, RSV, etc are translated. The English of KJV may differ from RSV but the messages remain the same.
It is not so with the Koran that was only out together in the last century. Mohamed never wrote the Koran. It was supposed to be RECITATIONS; right? Why were several copies of the recitations burned after Uthman used his accepted fragments to compile a copy?
Cc: Empiree
Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims re-ordered the Suras in a random manner! Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims allowed a tame goat to eat part of it (incomplete Qur'an) Allah revealed the Qur'an in at least 7 Arabic tongue (dialects): But Muslims deleted all but one.
What kind of editing could be more serious than BURNING all versions and circulating a single "palace version" for all by Muslims. It's called destroying Evidence!
malvisguy212: Thank God both the quran and hadiths are interpreted in English. One does not need to hate before you can read them and understand.
Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims re-ordered the Suras in a random manner! Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims allowed a tame goat to eat part of it (incomplete Qur'an) Allah revealed the Qur'an in at least 7 Arabic tongue (dialects): But Muslims deleted all but one.
What kind of editing could be more serious than BURNING all versions and circulating a single "palace version" for all by Muslims. It's called destroying Evidence!
Sahih Muslim Book 13: 4016Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, ‘Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I MAY WRITE FOR YOU A DOCUMENTS ; YOU WOULD NOT GO ASTRAY AFTER THAT. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur’an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would NEVER GO ASTRAY after him And some among them said what ‘Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and BEGAN TO DISPUTE in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) ‘Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: THERE WAS A HEAVY LOSS, INDEED A HEAVY LOSS, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) COULD NOT WRITE (OR DICTATE) THE DOCUMENTS FOR THEM.
These Hadiths state one thing clearly,Which is that Mohammed died with a Revelation which he wanted to speak out but could not/did not. He wanted to give the Muslims something of importance which will keep them on the right path. But he could not write it because of the commotion around him.This revelation remains unspoken and unwritten and went to the grave with Mohammed. What does this say about the Quran?
“We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I HAVE, HOWEVER, FORGOTTEN IT with the exception of this which I remember out of it: ‘If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501)
Here we see the evidence for a whole chapter which is missing from the Quran. These evidences from Islamic tradition prove the fact that Quran is incomplete and imperfect. This also raises serious questions about how the rest of the Quran can be trusted to be the true and complete revelation of the true God.
malvisguy212: Sahih Muslim Book 13: 4016Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, ‘Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I MAY WRITE FOR YOU A DOCUMENTS ; YOU WOULD NOT GO ASTRAY AFTER THAT. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur’an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would NEVER GO ASTRAY after him And some among them said what ‘Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and BEGAN TO DISPUTE in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) ‘Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: THERE WAS A HEAVY LOSS, INDEED A HEAVY LOSS, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) COULD NOT WRITE (OR DICTATE) THE DOCUMENTS FOR THEM.
These Hadiths state one thing clearly,Which is that Mohammed died with a Revelation which he wanted to speak out but could not/did not. He wanted to give the Muslims something of importance which will keep them on the right path. But he could not write it because of the commotion around him.This revelation remains unspoken and unwritten and went to the grave with Mohammed. What does this say about the Quran?
I guess Mohammed wanted to confess: "you have been scammed o..I really do not know what will befall me or even you.. everybody on his own"!
Muslims response to this would be : It's a weak hadith
They don't even have any shame they could say "Christians fabricated it" to spite Islam.
It so amazing that the almighty Allah sent a book AND no one has ever seen the book yet a compilation of poems were collected and called the book of Allah. There was not even one command from Allah that the book be compiled!
I marvel at how satan successfully used the error of Abraham to lead millions to hell.
malvisguy212: Sahih Muslim Book 13: 4016Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, ‘Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I MAY WRITE FOR YOU A DOCUMENTS ; YOU WOULD NOT GO ASTRAY AFTER THAT. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur’an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would NEVER GO ASTRAY after him And some among them said what ‘Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and BEGAN TO DISPUTE in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) ‘Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: THERE WAS A HEAVY LOSS, INDEED A HEAVY LOSS, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) COULD NOT WRITE (OR DICTATE) THE DOCUMENTS FOR THEM.
These Hadiths state one thing clearly,Which is that Mohammed died with a Revelation which he wanted to speak out but could not/did not. He wanted to give the Muslims something of importance which will keep them on the right path. But he could not write it because of the commotion around him.This revelation remains unspoken and unwritten and went to the grave with Mohammed. What does this say about the Quran?
the Qur'an is with them yet Muhammad want to write a document for the Muslim in other for them not to go astray, this simply mean , Muhammad know the Quran is not complete . Is the Quran not enough ? what is it that Muhammad wanted to write that is not in the Quran? should this Muslims depend on the Quran for their salvation ?
I guess Mohammed wanted to confess: "you have been scammed o..I really do not know what will befall me or even you.. everybody on his own"!
Muslims response to this would be : It's a weak hadith
They don't even have any shame they could say "Christians fabricated it" to spite Islam.
It so amazing that the almighty Allah sent a book AND no one has ever seen the book yet a compilation of poems were collected and called the book of Allah. There was not even one command from Allah that the book be compiled!
I marvel at how satan successfully used the error of Abraham to lead millions to hell.
the two successful achievement Satan has made in the history of mankind.
1. breaking of marriage union : almost 70% of cultist , arm robbers, proustite, drugs delears etc . they all comes from broken family. 2. Islam: hey. as a matter of fact Islam is the product of broken family, if Sarah had been a little patience with Abraham, Ismael wouldn't have been born.
malvisguy212: the two successful achievement Satan has made in the history of mankind.
1. breaking of marriage union : almost 70% of cultist , arm robbers, proustite, drugs delears etc . they all comes from broken family. 2. Islam: hey. as a matter of fact Islam is the product of broken family, if Sarah had been a little patience with Abraham, Ismael wouldn't have been born.
Of course in total agreement with you! God is interested in "godly seeds" not just children of Belial.
Of your second point: isn't it a wonder that Islam doesn't attack anything in Christianity that lead people to eternal life with God?
An invention that upgraded a tribal god with three daughters with the nature , character and status of Yahweh! Thanks to Waraqa and Khadija who were used to convince him that it wasn't a demon but an angel!
1 Peter 3:15-16 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Acts17:17 ore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him
The purpose of my post was 1. Education of the average Christian about the false doctrines of Islam 2. Putting to shame the arguments of the evil one 3. Showing the supremacy of the Bible.
My post wasn't designed to be evangelistic.
Let me ask you a question: Is Father Abraham currently conscious or unconscious?
And about your visitation: I pray the Lord uses me to flog out the demons who have imprisoned them
If you're asking with regards to Jesus' parable @ Luke 16:19-31, Symbolic Father Abraham lives forever,he is the one who created all things and he never died! But if you're asking with regards to Abraham the father of Isaac, he is dead{UNCONSCIOUS} Ecclesiastes 11:4-10 So he will be resurrected in the last day during the resurrection of all those who died before Christianity was established! John 11:24
unfortunately you don't tell me when to post I am always ahead of you because I knew and I already dealt with this subject 5yrs ago.
The Bible has its ORIGINAL manuscripts. It is from these that KJV, RSV, etc are translated. The English of KJV may differ from RSV but the messages remain the same.
It is not so with the Koran that was only out together in the last century. Mohamed never wrote the Koran. It was supposed to be RECITATIONS; right? Why were several copies of the recitations burned after Uthman used his accepted fragments to compile a copy?
I have said earlier that I really don't have problem with translation sometimes. That's not the big issue with the Bible and that's not my concern here. Discrimpancies or distortions of the Bible we are talking about is by way of expunging some passages and inserting something different. Sometimes translations themselves are not tandem. Some passages are missing from, for instance, GOOD news Bible but you still find them in other Bibles etc. This is what I'm talking about.
I wanted to save my time that's why I posted this link before. Help yourself
Maximus69: If you're asking with regards to Jesus' parable @ Luke 16:19-31, Symbolic Father Abraham lives forever,he is the one who created all things and he never died! But if you're asking with regards to Abraham the father of Isaac, he is dead{UNCONSCIOUS} Ecclesiastes 11:4-10 So he will be resurrected in the last day during the resurrection of all those who died before Christianity was established! John 11:24
What is your proof that Lk16:19-31 is a parable?
Jesus gave several parables in the gospels, can you find one parable where He called actors of the parables by name?
Please check out this and explain: Rev 6:9-11: "And when he opened the fifth seal I saw under the altar the souls of them who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they had borne. And they cried with a loud voice, saying , “How long, O sovereign, the holy one and the true, dost thou defer judging and avenging our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” And to every of them were given white robes and they were told that they should rest yet a little while till their fellow servants and their brethren who were about to be slain as well as they were completed."
This is a parable too? Luk 20:36-38: "For they can die no more. For angel-like they are indeed children of God, being children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised up, even Moses hath plainly shewn; as at the bush he stileth the Lord, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaak, and the God of Jacob. For he is not the God of the dead, but of the living. For to him they are all alive."
And Jesus became a trance in this scripture: ABI? Mat 17:1-9: "And after six days, Jesus taketh Peter, and James, and John, his brother, and bringeth them up privately to a high mountain, and was transfigured before them . His face shone like the sun: and his raiment became white as the light. And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias, conversing with him. Whereupon Peter, addressing Jesus, said, Master, it is well that we are here. if thou pleasest let us make here three booths, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he was yet speaking, behold! a bright cloud overshadowed them ; and lo! from the cloud, a voice, saying, This is my Son, the Beloved, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him. Upon hearing this the disciples fell on their face and were greatly affrighted. But Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, Be not afraid. And having lifted up their eyes they saw none but Jesus only. And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell no one what you have seen, until the son of man shall have risen from the dead."
If this is just a vision, the baptism not Jesus too must be a vision!
Until you understand that man is a Trinity, you will stay in your ignorance!
I spoke about Deliverance of the two agents of yours you would send to me, so here is a taste of what they are to expect.
Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims re-ordered the Suras in a random manner! Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims allowed a tame goat to eat part of it (incomplete Qur'an) Allah revealed the Qur'an in at least 7 Arabic tongue (dialects): But Muslims deleted all but one.
What kind of editing could be more serious than BURNING all versions and circulating a single "palace version" for all by Muslims. It's called destroying Evidence!
The present arrangement of the Quran is not the work of later generations, but was made by the Prophet, peace be upon him (p), under God’s directions. Whenever a chapter was revealed, the Prophet (p) summoned his scribes, to whom he carefully dictated its contents, and instructed them where to place it in relation to the other chapters. The Prophet (p) followed the same order of chapters and verses when reciting during ritual Prayer as on other occasions, and his Companions followed the same practice in memorizing the Quran. It is therefore a historical fact that the collection of the Quran came to an end on the very day that its revelation ceased. The One who was responsible for its revelation was also the One who fixed its arrangement. The one whose heart was the receptacle of the Quran was also responsible for arranging its sequence accordingly. This was far too important and too delicate a matter for anyone else to become involved in.
Empiree: The present arrangement of the Quran is not the work of later generations, but was made by the Prophet, peace be upon him (p), under God’s directions . Whenever a chapter was revealed, the Prophet (p) summoned his scribes, to whom he carefully dictated its contents, and instructed them where to place it in relation to the other chapters. The Prophet (p) followed the same order of chapters and verses when reciting during ritual Prayer as on other occasions, and his Companions followed the same practice in memorizing the Quran. It is therefore a historical fact that the collection of the Quran came to an end on the very day that its revelation ceased. The One who was responsible for its revelation was also the One who fixed its arrangement. The one whose heart was the receptacle of the Quran was also responsible for arranging its sequence accordingly. This was far too important and too delicate a matter for anyone else to become involved in.
Why would you make up an untrue defence as if the people you are addressing don't have an iota of knowledge of Islam.
1. It is known that the Qur'an was written and memorized as soon as Prophet Mohammed was recieving it! Yes or No! 2. If your answer is YES, then, the Qur'an was memorized sequencialy as it was revealed. 3. Then it was impossible to reorder the Qur'an until the whole Qur'an was revealed. 4. The fact that at the compilation of the Qur'an some companions knew of some chapters and not all means that at the time of Prophet Mohammed, people just recited the chapters without any particular order. This was reflected in the compilation.
Arrangement wasn't by Allah else, the Al Fathia would have been the first revelation. You remember when it was reported vthat a tame goat ate part of the revelation. This wouldn't have been possible if it was memorized according to a certain rule.
When Ibn Umar—son of the second Muslim caliph—heard people declaring that they knew the entire Qur’an, he said to them: “Let none of you say, ‘I have learned the whole of the Koran,’ for how does he know what the whole of it is, when much of it has disappeared ? Let him rather say, ‘I have learned what is extant thereof’” (Abu Ubaid, Kitab Fada’il-al-Qur’an).
Hear what imam Muslim said:
Sahih Muslim 2286 —Abu Musa al-Ash’ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur’an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.” And we used to recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it . . .
This shows that entire chapters of the Qur’an were forgotten. If this is true, how could there have been an arrangement!??
Jesus gave several parables in the gospels, can you find one parable where He called actors of the parables by name?
Please check out this and explain: Rev 6:9-11: "And when he opened the fifth seal I saw under the altar the souls of them who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they had borne. And they cried with a loud voice, saying , “How long, O sovereign, the holy one and the true, dost thou defer judging and avenging our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” And to every of them were given white robes and they were told that they should rest yet a little while till their fellow servants and their brethren who were about to be slain as well as they were completed."
This is a parable too? Luk 20:36-38: "For they can die no more. For angel-like they are indeed children of God, being children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised up, even Moses hath plainly shewn; as at the bush he stileth the Lord, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaak, and the God of Jacob. For he is not the God of the dead, but of the living. For to him they are all alive."
And Jesus became a trance in this scripture: ABI? Mat 17:1-9: "And after six days, Jesus taketh Peter, and James, and John, his brother, and bringeth them up privately to a high mountain, and was transfigured before them . His face shone like the sun: and his raiment became white as the light. And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias, conversing with him. Whereupon Peter, addressing Jesus, said, Master, it is well that we are here. if thou pleasest let us make here three booths, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he was yet speaking, behold! a bright cloud overshadowed them ; and lo! from the cloud, a voice, saying, This is my Son, the Beloved, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him. Upon hearing this the disciples fell on their face and were greatly affrighted. But Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, Be not afraid. And having lifted up their eyes they saw none but Jesus only. And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell no one what you have seen, until the son of man shall have risen from the dead."
If this is just a vision, the baptism not Jesus too must be a vision!
Until you understand that man is a Trinity, you will stay in your ignorance!
I spoke about Deliverance of the two agents of yours you would send to me, so here is a taste of what they are to expect.
I only told you the meaning of just a symbol out of several symbols Jesus mentioned in the parable, are you now running hastily to a conclusion without asking to know about the other symbols? Well pray for the spirit of humility to help you learn about what you know not! ¤ The rich man did NO evil neither was anything virtuous mentioned about the Lazarus,he's just a beggar. Was Jesus saying all rich people are doomed? Or was he saying all beggars are saved automatically? ¤ Note that Lazarus was DESIRING to be fed with the CRUMBS that's falling from the table of the rich man, so even if the rich man should invite him to come and dine on the same table, LAZARUS DESIRES TO BE FED WITH THE CRUMBS! Moreover Lazarus was FULL OF SORES, DOGS are coming to lick his sores. ¤ Both died and immediately find themselves in different destinations, rich man in HELL facing torment and Lazarus in ABRAHAM'S bosom. ¤ Rich man talked FIRST by appealing to FATHER ABRAHAM to tell LAZARUS to deep the tip of his finger and drop WATER for him to COOL his throat. ¤ Abraham responded that the rich had had his own goodies and now is Lazarus's turn, adding that there is a GREAT CHASM between them so that no one can cross to the other side. ¤ Rich man told ABRAHAM to send LAZARUS to the rich man's brothers so that they won't end up in the same place. ¤ ABRAHAM said they have MOSES and other prophets to warn them, rich man insisted that his brothers won't believe unless someone FROM THE DEAD is sent to them. ¤ ABRAHAM said if they don't believe Moses and other prophets, they won't also believe anyone from the DEAD! Hmmm, well the Pharisees to whom Jesus is speaking the parable against fully grasp what he was saying that day! Luke 16:14 You need to UNDERSTAND all those symbols before you can adequately INTERPRET the parable, but if you say you're OK with your present understanding of it there is no need for further discuss on the matter. Farewell!
Why would you make up an untrue defence as if the people you are addressing don't have an iota of knowledge of Islam.
1. It is known that the Qur'an was written and memorized as soon as Prophet Mohammed was recieving it! Yes or No! 2. If your answer is YES, then, the Qur'an was memorized sequencialy as it was revealed. 3. Then it was impossible to reorder the Qur'an until the whole Qur'an was revealed. 4. The fact that at the compilation of the Qur'an some companions knew of some chapters and not all means that at the time of Prophet Mohammed, people just recited the chapters without any particular order. This was reflected in the compilation.
Arrangement wasn't by Allah else, the Al Fathia would have been the first revelation. You remember when it was reported vthat a tame goat ate part of the revelation. This wouldn't have been possible if it was memorized according to a certain rule.
When Ibn Umar—son of the second Muslim caliph—heard people declaring that they knew the entire Qur’an, he said to them: “Let none of you say, ‘I have learned the whole of the Koran,’ for how does he know what the whole of it is, when much of it has disappeared ? Let him rather say, ‘I have learned what is extant thereof’” (Abu Ubaid, Kitab Fada’il-al-Qur’an).
Hear what imam Muslim said:
Sahih Muslim 2286 —Abu Musa al-Ash’ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur’an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.” And we used to recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it . . .
This shows that entire chapters of the Qur’an were forgotten. If this is true, how could there have been an arrangement!??
this is just like recycle topic. We dealt with these stuffs long ago and I wouldn't wanna waste my time
Go through these threads. They have useful informations. You will read provocative posts that challenges your religion.
Maximus69: I only told you the meaning of just a symbol out of several symbols Jesus mentioned in the parable, are you now running hastily to a conclusion without asking to know about the other symbols? Well pray for the spirit of humility to help you learn about what you know not! ¤ The rich man did NO evil neither was anything virtuous mentioned about the Lazarus,he's just a beggar. Was Jesus saying all rich people are doomed? Or was he saying all beggars are saved automatically? ¤ Note that Lazarus was DESIRING to be fed with the CRUMBS that's falling from the table of the rich man, so even if the rich man should invite him to come and dine on the same table, LAZARUS DESIRES TO BE FED WITH THE CRUMBS! Moreover Lazarus was FULL OF SORES, DOGS are coming to lick his sores. ¤ Both died and immediately find themselves in different destinations, rich man in HELL facing torment and Lazarus in ABRAHAM'S bosom. ¤ Rich man talked FIRST by appealing to FATHER ABRAHAM to tell LAZARUS to deep the tip of his finger and drop WATER for him to COOL his throat. ¤ Abraham responded that the rich had had his own goodies and now is Lazarus's turn, adding that there is a GREAT CHASM between them so that no one can cross to the other side. ¤ Rich man told ABRAHAM to send LAZARUS to the rich man's brothers so that they won't end up in the same place. ¤ ABRAHAM said they have MOSES and other prophets to warn them, rich man insisted that his brothers won't believe unless someone FROM THE DEAD is sent to them. ¤ ABRAHAM said if they don't believe Moses and other prophets, they won't also believe anyone from the DEAD! Hmmm, well the Pharisees to whom Jesus is speaking the parable against fully grasp what he was saying that day! Luke 16:14 You need to UNDERSTAND all those symbols before you can adequately INTERPRET the parable, but if you say you're OK with your present understanding of it there is no need for further discuss on the matter. Farewell!
You needn't escape from this: could it be that you couldn't find someone to help you through the scriptures I posted? Since you seem to be intimidated by the scriptures, let me move at your pace on your "parable of Lazarus and the rich man"!
For your sake, I am going to treat it purely as a parable and we'll look at the conclusion. A parable is an analogy in story form which teaches a doctrinal lesson.
So, let's start: What was Jesus teaching with the parable? 1. Everyone should live his life to please God because everyone would be judged according to how they have pleased God with their lives 2. Don't waste the privilege God has given you on this earth 3. The amount of material blessings you have isn't an indication of how truly blessed of God you are 4. There is reconning of your deeds after death. Physical Death isn't the end of consciousness 5. There are two possible places a person can be after death: a place of bliss and a place of suffering. 6. From the place of the dead, you can't send help to the living. Therefore those who are alive should not expect a supernatural validation of judgement after death.
Now, I have treated it as a parable and it still contradict JW doctrines.
I challenge you to show me that the dead are unconscious from this passage.
If you claim that it's just a parable, let's see the lessons therein? You may wish to explain the symbols, I want to understand your interpretation of the parable.
Empiree my unrepentant Muslim friend on Nairaland!
Whenever you are confounded , you have a way to look at the past and say "I don't have an answer to your post, but 5 years ago, a topic like that would help you. Check it out!"
Empiree made a post challenging s post A solid rebuttal was made The rebuttal confounded Empiree His solution is to appeal to a "dead" third party ( dead thread)
Empiree: The present arrangement of the Quran is not the work of later generations, but was made by the Prophet, peace be upon him (p), under God’s directions. Whenever a chapter was revealed, the Prophet (p) summoned his scribes, to whom he carefully dictated its contents, and instructed them where to place it in relation to the other chapters. The Prophet (p) followed the same order of chapters and verses when reciting during ritual Prayer as on other occasions, and his Companions followed the same practice in memorizing the Quran. It is therefore a historical fact that the collection of the Quran came to an end on the very day that its revelation ceased. The One who was responsible for its revelation was also the One who fixed its arrangement. The one whose heart was the receptacle of the Quran was also responsible for arranging its sequence accordingly. This was far too important and too delicate a matter for anyone else to become involved in.
The statement above was made by you not by someone else in a dead thread! You have been replied! Answer the questions asked or the issues raised and stop being an escapist!
Maximus69: If you're asking with regards to Jesus' parable @ Luke 16:19-31, Symbolic Father Abraham lives forever,he is the one who created all things and he never died! But if you're asking with regards to Abraham the father of Isaac, he is dead{UNCONSCIOUS} Ecclesiastes 11:4-10 So he will be resurrected in the last day during the resurrection of all those who died before Christianity was established! John 11:24
The statement above was made by you not by someone else in a dead thread! You have been replied! Answer the questions asked or the issues raised and stop being an escapist!
i ignored your comment bcuz, after reading your first question, I realized your answer was in my post you commented on. So I wouldn't wanna waste my time over silly repetitive questions again. For this reason I decided to expose you to recycle threads where we already dealt with your concern.
Don't even take my silence for weakness bcuz ain't get your time. It is Ramadan. I'm tayad
Empiree: i ignored your comment bcuz, after reading your first question, I realized your answer was in my post you commented on. So I wouldn't wanna waste my time over silly repetitive questions again. For this reason I decided to expose you to recycle threads where we already dealt with your concern.
Don't even take my silence for weakness bcuz ain't get your time. It is Ramadan. I'm tayad
I also think you should take s break. It's Ramadan time. I hope next time we meet it won't be a debate but a conversation!
Salaam Aleikum to you! Remember to post my Ramadan Ram after o! (Pls don't let us start again on who did Abraham want to sacrifice?)
Maximus69: If you're asking with regards to Jesus' parable @ Luke 16:19-31, Symbolic Father Abraham lives forever,he is the one who created all things and he never died! But if you're asking with regards to Abraham the father of Isaac, he is dead{UNCONSCIOUS} Ecclesiastes 11:4-10 So he will be resurrected in the last day during the resurrection of all those who died before Christianity was established! John 11:24
Carry your stupid Jehovah's False Witness doctrine comot for here.
